Which 9-11 theory you believe?

[Hollybaere]

You're using 9E to promote your anti-Semitism like Stormfront uses every single fucking thing possible to promote their racism. I don't give a fuck what your gender is because being a bitch isn't dependent upon anatomy. I give respect where it is earned and right now you're so fucking bankrupt you make the US economy look like Bill Gates' bank account.

I am not using 911 to promote anything other than the Fairy Tale version is totally incorrect, proven by use of scientific evidence and fact. I am also giving a perspective on WHO actually carried out 911 and who actually reaped the benefits from 911, based on factual evidence. If you find that racist, that is just to bad.

FYI: I do not participate on Stromfront, never have and never will.

Questioning Israeli involvement in 911 IS NOT anti-Semetic. Especially when it comes to the Dancing Israeli's, The Urban Moving Systems, Odego, the Israeli Art Students who lived next door to Mohammed Atta and co., and Atta's involvement with Abramoff etc, etc.

To bad if you don't like the TRUTH! Instead of swinging around your rubber sword called "anti-Semetism, you might try using FACTUAL evidence to prove me wrong. So far all I see is swearing and insults.


As I said, as soon as the shit starts bein flung, you know you have told the truth!!

 

[CurveLight]

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

It's there in black and white dumb ass, don't try to make shit up to fit into your world, just accept the facts. There was no implosion. More from your link:

"From video evidence, significant portions of the cores of both buildings (roughly 60 stories of WTC 1 and 40 stories of WTC 2) are known to have stood 15 to 25 seconds after collapse initiation before they, too, began to collapse. Neither the duration of the seismic records nor video evidence (due to obstruction of view caused by debris clouds) are reliable indicators of the total time it took for each building to collapse completely."

"In summary, NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to Sept. 11, 2001. NIST also did not find any evidence that missiles were fired at or hit the towers. Instead, photographs and videos from several angles clearly show that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward until the dust clouds obscured the view."

You've completely ignored the fact nist said the top section fell at essentially free fall speed. Think about it dumbfuck. The top section fell directly down on the rest of the tower so if the top section fell at free fall it means nothing below it could have fallen slower. You ignore that but call others blind..........

 

[CurveLight]

You're using 9E to promote your anti-Semitism like Stormfront uses every single fucking thing possible to promote their racism. I don't give a fuck what your gender is because being a bitch isn't dependent upon anatomy. I give respect where it is earned and right now you're so fucking bankrupt you make the US economy look like Bill Gates' bank account.

I am not using 911 to promote anything other than the Fairy Tale version is totally incorrect, proven by use of scientific evidence and fact. I am also giving a perspective on WHO actually carried out 911 and who actually reaped the benefits from 911, based on factual evidence. If you find that racist, that is just to bad.

FYI: I do not participate on Stromfront, never have and never will.

Questioning Israeli involvement in 911 IS NOT anti-Semetic. Especially when it comes to the Dancing Israeli's, The Urban Moving Systems, Odego, the Israeli Art Students who lived next door to Mohammed Atta and co., and Atta's involvement with Abramoff etc, etc.

To bad if you don't like the TRUTH! Instead of swinging around your rubber sword called "anti-Semetism, you might try using FACTUAL evidence to prove me wrong. So far all I see is swearing and insults.


As I said, as soon as the shit starts bein flung, you know you have told the truth!!

You aren't "questioning" Israeli involvement you dishonest fatass bitch. You are the anti-Semitic version of Stormfront.

 

[JiggsCasey]

I do not buy Loose Change's controlled demolition theory, or MIHOP. But I do adhere to "Let it Happen on Purpose" , which is far more court-admissible and convincing. Attempting to dismiss the vast array of overlapping "coincidences" is akin to being dealt a pocket pair 100 times in a row, and insisting it's totally plausible.

In order to support the official version of the 911 attacks, one must - by necessity - find a way in which to dismiss as irrelevant, explain, excuse or be unaware of each the following aspects of the mass murder that changed the world:

That numerous, high-level failures to heed repeated warnings of an unprecedented, impending terrorist attack on American soil from a bevy of reliable intelligence sources - including eleven foreign State Security services - was either a breakdown of the system or as a result of "warnings fatigue".

With a US intelligence system "blinking red as never before", according to CIA director George Tenet in the months and weeks preceding the 911 attacks, the entire Bush inner circle had reason to dismiss no less than forty Daily Presidential Briefs that specifically addressed an impending, large-scale attack by al Qaeda and/or Osama bin laden affiliated operatives on American soil - and were not considered important or specific enough to act upon.

That chief anti-terrorism expert Richard Clarke, working closely with three previous US presidents, was removed from president Bush's inner circle only months before the 911 attacks by national Security Advisor Condalezza Rice, and was merely an unfortunate coincidence.

That the often repeated claim, immediately following the 911 attacks, that "no one could have anticipated such an attack" by Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Fleisher and other top administration officials was understandable - even though the US military and intelligence services had recently anticipated exactly such an attack, specifically at the Pentagon and at the World Trade Center complex - and was meaningless because these drills were conducted during the previous administration.

That several key investigations into suspicious Muslim men taking flight training, "but not particularily interested in learning to land and take off", were hindered by mid and upper FBI level field managers out of fear of being accused of "racial profiling".

That an extensive intelligence operation dubbed 'Able Danger', that had gathered broad information on those men than would later become hijackers on 911, was discontinued and the files destroyed before the attacks, (with no explanation offered, and US intelligence agents involved not called to testify), was but a coincidence - or was of no importance.

That vice president Cheney being charged with command and control of all US air defense training and coordination, (an unprecedent assignment of official power a US vice president), four months before the 911 attacks was simply a coincidence.

That the long-established protocols for intecepting errant aircraft over US soil were subtly changed three months before the 911 attacks and was but an unfortunate coincidence.

That the air defense training drills that were in progress on 911, (critical in the failures to mount a military response to the attacks), being originally scheduled for October of 2001 but re-scheduled for the week of 9-10-2001 was merely a coincidence and bad timing.

That of the six major, extensive air training drills that were in progress far from Washington and NYC, only one was briefly mentioned in a footnote in the 911 Commission's final report and was either perfectly appropriate or a careless oversight.

That air drills in progress hundreds of miles from Washington and NYC required the injection of hundreds of phantom radar blips into the civilian radar network, (that made locating the hijacked airliners impossible), was but an unforunate coincidence.

That with an unprecedent number of intellience warnings about an impending terrorist attack on American soil - many that were specific enough to mention potential hijackings - the US air defense drills that left the nation's capital and the Northeast United States vulnerable to air attack went ahead, and were as a result of poor planning - and another unfortunate coincidence.

That (former) National Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta's testimony before the 911 Commission, that sharply contradicted vice president Cheney's version of the critical timetable that day, was of no imortance - and therefore, was appropriate to delete from the transcript, the 911 Commission's final report and video archives.

That the three and a half hour testimony by fired FBI translator Sibel Edmunds before the 911 Commission, detailing a deep culture of corruption and widespread intelligence manipulation in the FBI, (and the fact that she was gagged by a federal court order), was of no consequence.

That the well-confirmed $100,000 wire transfer to lead hijacker Mohammad Atta, only days before the 911 attacks, authorized by Pakistan's intelligence chief General Mahmoud Ahmed was of no importance to US law-enforcement officials, intelligence agencies, the Bush administration or the 911 Commission in it's final report.

That for fourteen months, president Bush and his inner circle strenuously objected to, and did everything possible to prevent an independent investigation into the sequence of events and failures surrounding the 911 attacks because it would be a distraction, or according to Bush, "may reveal too many national security secrets".

That a twenty-eight page report detailing the decades long business and family ties between the Bush family and the Saudi Arabian Royal family, (who's country, fifteen of the nineteen hijackers originated), and the bin Laden family, (the accused in the 911 attacks), was of no relevance and merited no mention in the 911 Commission's final report.

That a phone call to (then) democratic congressional leader senator Tom Dashle from president Bush, warning that the congressional investigation into the 911 attacks could become a major distraction with upcoming elections, was of no consequence.

That another call, several days later, by vice president Dick Cheney to Senator Tom Dashle, (overheard by a local reporter on the speakerphone), warning the senator that the democratic party would "pay a high price" if the congressional investigation into the 911 attacks was "of too much depth", was of no significance and politics as usual.

That an initial three million dollar appropriation, (later, reluctantly raised to fifteen million dollars), to finance the 911 Commission, (when the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster and investigation of Clinton wrongdoing in 1996 were both in excess of fifty million dollars each), and that these amounts were appropriate considering the breadth and importance of each investigation.

That a large, lumbering passanger jet reversed course, (after it was confirmed to have been hijacked and after both towers of the World Trade Center had been struck by airliners), and flew for over 275 miles and 35 minutes directly toward the nation's capital with no military response and crashed into likely the most defended building in the United States, the Pentagon., but was an unfortunate breakdown of procedures and communications.

That the geopolitical objectives and philosophy laid out in the PNAC document titled, "Rebuilding America's Defenses"(signed and endorsed by Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and other key, top-level officials), along with the 'Defense Planning Guidance', (or Wolfowitz Doctrine), co-written with former US defense secretary Dick Cheney, that espoused expanded US global military capabilities and ventures that have actually occured as a result of the 911 attacks was, and is, of no consequence - or mere coincidence.
​

Each of these aspects before, during and following the attacks must be excused, justified or explained by those that continue to support the official US government version of the events surrounding the 911 attacks on America.

 

[CurveLight]

The problem with the LHOP theory is assuming they would be confident it would happen and be successful.

 

[Fizz]

You've completely ignored the fact nist said the top section fell at essentially free fall speed. Think about it dumbfuck. The top section fell directly down on the rest of the tower so if the top section fell at free fall it means nothing below it could have fallen slower. You ignore that but call others blind..........

where does it say the top section fell directly down on the rest of the tower and pieces didnt go over the sides?

are you saying the top section stayed intact until it hit the ground?

apparently it is YOU that needs to think about it, dumbfuck!!

 

[SFC Ollie]

I do not buy Loose Change's controlled demolition theory, or MIHOP. But I do adhere to "Let it Happen on Purpose" , which is far more court-admissible and convincing. Attempting to dismiss the vast array of overlapping "coincidences" is akin to being dealt a pocket pair 100 times in a row, and insisting it's totally plausible.

In order to support the official version of the 911 attacks, one must - by necessity - find a way in which to dismiss as irrelevant, explain, excuse or be unaware of each the following aspects of the mass murder that changed the world:

That numerous, high-level failures to heed repeated warnings of an unprecedented, impending terrorist attack on American soil from a bevy of reliable intelligence sources - including eleven foreign State Security services - was either a breakdown of the system or as a result of "warnings fatigue".

With a US intelligence system "blinking red as never before", according to CIA director George Tenet in the months and weeks preceding the 911 attacks, the entire Bush inner circle had reason to dismiss no less than forty Daily Presidential Briefs that specifically addressed an impending, large-scale attack by al Qaeda and/or Osama bin laden affiliated operatives on American soil - and were not considered important or specific enough to act upon.

That chief anti-terrorism expert Richard Clarke, working closely with three previous US presidents, was removed from president Bush's inner circle only months before the 911 attacks by national Security Advisor Condalezza Rice, and was merely an unfortunate coincidence.

That the often repeated claim, immediately following the 911 attacks, that "no one could have anticipated such an attack" by Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Fleisher and other top administration officials was understandable - even though the US military and intelligence services had recently anticipated exactly such an attack, specifically at the Pentagon and at the World Trade Center complex - and was meaningless because these drills were conducted during the previous administration.

That several key investigations into suspicious Muslim men taking flight training, "but not particularily interested in learning to land and take off", were hindered by mid and upper FBI level field managers out of fear of being accused of "racial profiling".

That an extensive intelligence operation dubbed 'Able Danger', that had gathered broad information on those men than would later become hijackers on 911, was discontinued and the files destroyed before the attacks, (with no explanation offered, and US intelligence agents involved not called to testify), was but a coincidence - or was of no importance.

That vice president Cheney being charged with command and control of all US air defense training and coordination, (an unprecedent assignment of official power a US vice president), four months before the 911 attacks was simply a coincidence.

That the long-established protocols for intecepting errant aircraft over US soil were subtly changed three months before the 911 attacks and was but an unfortunate coincidence.

That the air defense training drills that were in progress on 911, (critical in the failures to mount a military response to the attacks), being originally scheduled for October of 2001 but re-scheduled for the week of 9-10-2001 was merely a coincidence and bad timing.

That of the six major, extensive air training drills that were in progress far from Washington and NYC, only one was briefly mentioned in a footnote in the 911 Commission's final report and was either perfectly appropriate or a careless oversight.

That air drills in progress hundreds of miles from Washington and NYC required the injection of hundreds of phantom radar blips into the civilian radar network, (that made locating the hijacked airliners impossible), was but an unforunate coincidence.

That with an unprecedent number of intellience warnings about an impending terrorist attack on American soil - many that were specific enough to mention potential hijackings - the US air defense drills that left the nation's capital and the Northeast United States vulnerable to air attack went ahead, and were as a result of poor planning - and another unfortunate coincidence.

That (former) National Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta's testimony before the 911 Commission, that sharply contradicted vice president Cheney's version of the critical timetable that day, was of no imortance - and therefore, was appropriate to delete from the transcript, the 911 Commission's final report and video archives.

That the three and a half hour testimony by fired FBI translator Sibel Edmunds before the 911 Commission, detailing a deep culture of corruption and widespread intelligence manipulation in the FBI, (and the fact that she was gagged by a federal court order), was of no consequence.

That the well-confirmed $100,000 wire transfer to lead hijacker Mohammad Atta, only days before the 911 attacks, authorized by Pakistan's intelligence chief General Mahmoud Ahmed was of no importance to US law-enforcement officials, intelligence agencies, the Bush administration or the 911 Commission in it's final report.

That for fourteen months, president Bush and his inner circle strenuously objected to, and did everything possible to prevent an independent investigation into the sequence of events and failures surrounding the 911 attacks because it would be a distraction, or according to Bush, "may reveal too many national security secrets".

That a twenty-eight page report detailing the decades long business and family ties between the Bush family and the Saudi Arabian Royal family, (who's country, fifteen of the nineteen hijackers originated), and the bin Laden family, (the accused in the 911 attacks), was of no relevance and merited no mention in the 911 Commission's final report.

That a phone call to (then) democratic congressional leader senator Tom Dashle from president Bush, warning that the congressional investigation into the 911 attacks could become a major distraction with upcoming elections, was of no consequence.

That another call, several days later, by vice president Dick Cheney to Senator Tom Dashle, (overheard by a local reporter on the speakerphone), warning the senator that the democratic party would "pay a high price" if the congressional investigation into the 911 attacks was "of too much depth", was of no significance and politics as usual.

That an initial three million dollar appropriation, (later, reluctantly raised to fifteen million dollars), to finance the 911 Commission, (when the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster and investigation of Clinton wrongdoing in 1996 were both in excess of fifty million dollars each), and that these amounts were appropriate considering the breadth and importance of each investigation.

That a large, lumbering passanger jet reversed course, (after it was confirmed to have been hijacked and after both towers of the World Trade Center had been struck by airliners), and flew for over 275 miles and 35 minutes directly toward the nation's capital with no military response and crashed into likely the most defended building in the United States, the Pentagon., but was an unfortunate breakdown of procedures and communications.

That the geopolitical objectives and philosophy laid out in the PNAC document titled, "Rebuilding America's Defenses"(signed and endorsed by Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and other key, top-level officials), along with the 'Defense Planning Guidance', (or Wolfowitz Doctrine), co-written with former US defense secretary Dick Cheney, that espoused expanded US global military capabilities and ventures that have actually occured as a result of the 911 attacks was, and is, of no consequence - or mere coincidence.
​

Each of these aspects before, during and following the attacks must be excused, justified or explained by those that continue to support the official US government version of the events surrounding the 911 attacks on America.

Nice story. Maybe you could do a great fiction movie.....And while you're at it show us some real proof of all this. Like how well the pentagon is so well defended.....

 

[JiggsCasey]

The problem with the LHOP theory is assuming they would be confident it would happen and be successful.

What's to worry about when you're suppressing and/or halting existing FBI surveillance? Again, they didn't have to DO much. Just call off the dogs, and look the other way. Further, it doesn't require that many individuals to "take the oath" of secrecy at all.

Just look at how effectively they kept things like the Manhattan Project, the stealth bomber, and, for decades, the Gulf of Tonkin incident quite secret from public consumption. I'd say precedent is quite firmly established.

 

[JiggsCasey]

Nice story. Maybe you could do a great fiction movie.....And while you're at it show us some real proof of all this. Like how well the pentagon is so well defended.....

I don't really need to. The undeniable public record of LIHOP proof is all readily available for anyone to absorb, and has been for 9 years now.

All I did was provide -- in a nice concise list -- the mind-boggling array of overlapping coincidences that coincitards all try to pass off as merely innocuous.

 

[DiveCon]

The problem with the LHOP theory is assuming they would be confident it would happen and be successful.

What's to worry about when you're suppressing and/or halting existing FBI surveillance? Again, they didn't have to DO much. Just call off the dogs, and look the other way. Further, it doesn't require that many individuals to "take the oath" of secrecy at all.

Just look at how effectively they kept things like the Manhattan Project, the stealth bomber, and, for decades, the Gulf of Tonkin incident quite secret from public consumption. I'd say precedent is quite firmly established.

there were reports on the stealth bomber years before it was released
the Manhattan project was not secret for very long
neither was the gulf of tonkin incident

 

[JiggsCasey]

there were reports on the stealth bomber years before it was released

there were reports of Islamic radicals attacking us for years before it happened.

the Manhattan project was not secret for very long
neither was the gulf of tonkin incident

Neither was the reality of 9/11.

What's your point?

 

[DiveCon]

there were reports on the stealth bomber years before it was released

there were reports of Islamic radicals attacking us for years before it happened.

the Manhattan project was not secret for very long
neither was the gulf of tonkin incident

Neither was the reality of 9/11.

What's your point?

the point is, if it was "allowed" to happen on purpose
someone would know that and human nature being what it is, would talk

 

[JiggsCasey]

the point is, if it was "allowed" to happen on purpose
someone would know that and human nature being what it is, would talk

I disagree. Please link to when Tonkin became accepted as full-blown fraud by the mainstream. I'd say that secret was held down for quite some time.

Regardless, the "human nature" defense would not get the relevant evidence thrown out in any court of law.

 

[DiveCon]

the point is, if it was "allowed" to happen on purpose
someone would know that and human nature being what it is, would talk

I disagree. Please link to when Tonkin became accepted as full-blown fraud by the mainstream. I'd say that secret was held down for quite some time.

Regardless, the "human nature" defense would not get the relevant evidence thrown out in any court of law.

uh, it wasn't a "full blown fraud"
but what it was was exaggerated

 

[Fizz]

there's a big difference between "letting it happen on purpose" and not putting intelligence together that they probably should have.

if i was one of the "dogs that were called off" i would be spilling my guts to every reporter in the world and letting them know.

so where are all the dogs that were called off? where's you proof other than your "too many coincidences to be real" fairy tale?

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enp-rT67B-w]YouTube - John Oneil PBS Frontline 1[/ame]

frontline: the man who knew | PBS

 

[Douger]

The PNAC theory.
They created what they said they "needed".
"A new Pearl harbor"

 

[eots]

Coleen Rowley – Former Special Agent and Minneapolis Division Counsel, FBI. 24-year FBI career. Agent Rowley was selected one of Time Magazine's three 2002 Persons of the Year for revealing FBI headquarters' efforts to "throw up roadblocks and undermine" FBI field investigations of Al Qaeda operatives in the four weeks prior to 9/11.
Memo to FBI Director Robert Mueller 5/21/02: Regarding FBI headquarters (FBIHQ) obstruction of terrorism investigations. "The fact is that key FBIHQ personnel whose job it was to assist and coordinate with field division agents on terrorism investigations and the obtaining and use of FISA searches (and who theoretically were privy to many more sources of intelligence information than field division agents), continued to, almost inexplicably, throw up roadblocks and undermine Minneapolis' by-now desperate efforts to obtain a FISA search warrant, long after the French intelligence service provided its information and probable cause became clear. HQ personnel brought up almost ridiculous questions in their apparent efforts to undermine the probable cause. ...

When, in a desperate 11th hour measure to bypass the FBIHQ roadblock, the Minneapolis Division undertook to directly notify the CIA's Counter Terrorist Center (CTC), FBIHQ personnel actually chastised the Minneapolis agents for making the direct notification without their approval ...

I know I shouldn't be flippant about this, but jokes were actually made that the key FBIHQ personnel had to be spies or moles, like Robert Hansen, who were actually working for Osama Bin Laden to have so undercut Minneapolis' effort." Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com


Interview 9/25/05: "And what I did was, I think, I put the first good dent in the blanket defense that for 8 and a half, 9 months, was holding - that 9/11 could not have been prevented.

... we were all settling for, ‘9/11 could not have been prevented’, it was ‘hindsight’. Condi Rice, "Well, no one could have ever imagined that someone would fly…" and of course, when she says that, she’s disregarding a whole bunch of things. People are letting her get away with it. She’s disregarding the fact of two or three prior incidents of people trying to fly planes into buildings, attempted takeovers of cockpits…We’re also ignoring the fact that in Minneapolis [FBI office], the acting supervisor, arguing with [FBI] headquarters said, ‘This is a guy [Zacarias Moussaoui] that could fly a plane into the World Trade Center’ on August 22nd!" http://www.nowpubli


Editor's note: Despite Agent Rowley's high-profile revelations and intimate knowledge of FBI headquarter's efforts to obstruct investigations of Al Qaeda-related terrorist activities in the four weeks prior to 9/11, the 9/11 Commission never interviewed her. The 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks." contains no mention of her allegations that FBI headquarters "continued to, almost inexplicably, throw up roadblocks and undermine" FBI field agent counterterrorism efforts. The Commission Report only obliquely mentions Agent Rowley in a single footnote. See also Special Agent Robert Wright and Special

Agent Harry Samit.Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

 

[eots]

Sibel D. Edmonds – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. Former Language Translation Specialist, performing translations for counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations, FBI.
Letter to 9/11 Commission 8/1/04 : "I find your report seriously flawed in its failure to address serious intelligence issues that I am aware of, which have been confirmed, and which as a witness to the commission, I made you aware of. Thus, I must assume that other serious issues that I am not aware of were in the same manner omitted from your report. These omissions cast doubt on the validity of your report and therefore on its conclusions and recommendations."


Article 7/22/04: "My translations of the 9/11 intercepts included [terrorist] money laundering, detailed and date-specific information ... if they were to do real investigations, we would see several significant high-level criminal prosecutions in this country [the US] ... and believe me, they will do everything to cover this up." Latest news, comment and reviews from the Guardian | guardian.co.uk

 

[Hollybaere]

You aren't "questioning" Israeli involvement you dishonest fatass bitch. You are the anti-Semitic version of Stormfront.

Why would I "question" something that is so blatanly obvious?? As I said, I can't help it if you don't like the TRUTH.

9/11: THE TRUTH COMES OUT

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVKGRB3cygg&feature=related]YouTube - Why The Military Knows Israel Did 9/11[/ame]

Israel and 9/11 - Index of What Really Happened

And here is how Fairy Tales get started and promoted:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwq04_KhCeI&feature=related]YouTube - 911 Clues EVERYONE MISSED[/ame]

BTW: Dear Curvelight, I will give you one more chance to talk to me in a civil manner.......OR suffer the consequences. Thank you.