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-=d=- said:See? the thing is, OBL doesn't NEED any excuses; other than how morally bankrupt our society is in the eyes of the Muslim.
-=d=- said:For what it's worth...
The STINGER weapon system, provided to the rebels in Afghanistan v. Soviets, was the only weapon in history which, upon it's introduction to the battle, changed the tide of the war.
300? Soviet Aircraft lost.
nakedemperor said:He wasn't saying that Osama himself needed excuses, but that U.S. invasion/occupation gives him credence to other Arabs.
-=d=- said:For what it's worth...
The STINGER weapon system, provided to the rebels in Afghanistan v. Soviets, was the only weapon in history which, upon it's introduction to the battle, changed the tide of the war.
300? Soviet Aircraft lost.
CSM said:The only weapon in history???? Maybe the only weapon in Afghani history.
-=d=- said:Name one other weapon that, when introduced into battle, turned the tide of a war.
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-=d=- said:Name one other weapon that, when introduced into battle, turned the tide of a war.
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-=d=- said:Name one other weapon that, when introduced into battle, turned the tide of a war.
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gop_jeff said:Radar, introduced in the Battle of Britian, 1940-1941.
Saved Britian from the planned Nazi invasion, thus ending westward Nazi expansion. Then the US got involved. The rest is history.
-=d=- said:Name one other weapon that, when introduced into battle, turned the tide of a war.
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Avatar4321 said:Sword, it was more effective than sticks
Machine gun. If it werent for the Machine gun WW1 would have been alot different.
Heck there are probably tons more.
gop_jeff said:Radar, introduced in the Battle of Britian, 1940-1941.
Saved Britian from the planned Nazi invasion, thus ending westward Nazi expansion. Then the US got involved. The rest is history.
dilloduck said:longbows
CSM said:How about the nuclear bomb on Nagaski and Hiroshima? Or don't you think that those two incidents had anything to do with shortening WW II?
CSM said:There have been times throughout history where a weapon (new or not) turned the tide of battle. The English longbow at Argincourt is an example. It was the first time massed archers were used against charging armored knights on the open field of battle and was fairly effective to say the least. There are other examples of weaponry having a great deal of impact on how warfare in general is conducted some even before they were tested on the battlefield.
-=d=- said:We were already 'winning'...Had we been 'losing' the war up until that point, I'd concede.
Again, you are talking about changes in warfare...I'm not familiar with the Argincourt War.
The point is, again...One side was losing badly. They recieved ONE weapons system, and the entire tide changed - they started to Win..and eventually did.
Palestinian Jew said:There is no way of knowing who UBL would vote for until another 20 years goes by when we can see the product of the Bush policies.
But I would guess he would vote for the guy that hasn't been able to kill him for three years. :tng:
CSM said:I would also point out that while Stingers certainly gave the Afghans some freedom of movement in their own country, they are useless against tanks and other ground systems. There were many reason why the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan,stingers not withstanding.
-=d=- said:Losing 250+ Aircraft, with no end in sight was prinicple...Point of order - 2.2lbs of C4 could be quite usefull against lightly-armored vehicles...the velocity alone of the system could cause destruction to many land systems.
Older Stingers simply locked on to a heat source - I remember training with live stinger seeker heads, and locking onto a ciggarette lighter's flame. Thus, it's entirely possible to engage ground targets. Newer Stingers have processors which filter out exhaust signatures which differ than those of from Aircraft...mostly.![]()