Which comes first: Irrefutable proof...or an investigation toward that irrefutable proof?

[sakinago]

Tillerson holds firm on Russia sanctions during talks with Putin - Oil | Platts News Article & Story

Oh yea, Tillerson is really working with the Russians there. Trump and Putin are certainly best friends now

Proves NOTHING........Just imagine had Tillerson and Putin shaken hands for EXXON to disregards current sanctions and have them work together.....Even the most "loyal" Trump ass lickers would find it difficult to defend THAT......

Also noticed that Trump acolytes NOW like to say that they "never really liked Trump".....One wonders how the fuck the orange clown managed to sit in the oval office.....Buyers' remorse tinged with lies, anyone?

Yea again I did not vote for him, neither in primary or general election. So why would you suggest that I once liked him, and now all of a sudden I'm changing positions? Makes absolutely no sense, especially considering my position against yours now. My opposition to trump is very very well documented on this message board over the past couple years. Oops, sounds like someone is resorting to ad hominems again, ad hominems with zero truth I might add. Really, I'm a trump acolyte? And therefore I'm wrong, you're right? Ridiculous.

That article is from a couple weeks ago, quoting tillereson when he says he's going to uphold sanctions until Russia stops causing unrest in the Ukraine...WHICH IS WHY WE PUT SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA IN THE FIRST PLACE genius. Guess what the sanctions are still there...they haven't been lifted as you have been suggesting. So what is your point??

 

[nat4900]

That article is from a couple weeks ago, quoting tillereson when he says he's going to uphold sanctions until Russia stops causing unrest in the Ukraine...WHICH IS WHY WE PUT SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA IN THE FIRST PLACE genius. Guess what the sanctions are still there...they haven't been lifted as you have been suggesting. So what is your point??

LAME......very lame......

You're one of the rats abandoning ship with your fence sitting....You're a Trump ass licker whether you want to now admit it or not.

The RNC convention platform CLEARLY states that if elected, the GOP candidates would soften their stance on sanctions which began with Russia invasion of the Crimea and now extend to eastern Ukraine.

Live with your fuck up......

 

[paperview]

The Hill‏Verified account @thehill 32m32 minutes ago



#BREAKING: FBI wasn't immediately concerned after it learned of Russian hacking during election: report http://hill.cm/RTSMSoG


Russia’s hacking of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) during the presidential election did not instantly raise concerns at the FBI or the Department of Justice, according to a comprehensive report published online Saturday by The New York Times.

It took months for the FBI to meet with DNC officials to discuss the breach, the report said.
At the time, the FBI was more focused on its investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server during her tenure as secretary of state.

Quite a story at the NYT's link.

 

[sakinago]

The trump dossier, that came from opposition research during the campaign, where much of the timeline didn't fit with the claimed events, and, widely to believe to be written by Russian former KGB (not by an English speaking Britain), and 100% of what's in the dossier is heresay, 100% ... thats what I call uncorroborated..

Nonsense and inane......HAD the dossier been the ONLY proof presented to a FISA judge I'd tend to agree and ANY judge who would grant surveillance simply based on a foreign dossier should be out of a job.....

HOWEVER, as repeatedly reported by the FBI, no one within that agency would dare jeopardize an investigation by walking into a judge's chambers and simply state, "hey, judge, may I have a warrant based on a foreign guy's gathering of damaging information???....yeah, thanks!!"

THAT is dumb and a flimsy straw to hang on to in your drowning diatribe........ smarten up.

Really? I don't here the FBI citing anything else they're using, they lead with this dossier. They're putting on a show for you.

Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia

So what's changed since then? What new info has arisen, and why only cite the dossier and nothing else?

 

[Aries]

The trump dossier, that came from opposition research during the campaign, where much of the timeline didn't fit with the claimed events, and, widely to believe to be written by Russian former KGB (not by an English speaking Britain), and 100% of what's in the dossier is heresay, 100% ... thats what I call uncorroborated..

Nonsense and inane......HAD the dossier been the ONLY proof presented to a FISA judge I'd tend to agree and ANY judge who would grant surveillance simply based on a foreign dossier should be out of a job.....

HOWEVER, as repeatedly reported by the FBI, no one within that agency would dare jeopardize an investigation by walking into a judge's chambers and simply state, "hey, judge, may I have a warrant based on a foreign guy's gathering of damaging information???....yeah, thanks!!"

THAT is dumb and a flimsy straw to hang on to in your drowning diatribe........ smarten up.

Really? I don't here the FBI citing anything else they're using, they lead with this dossier. They're putting on a show for you.

Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia

So what's changed since then? What new info has arisen, and why only cite the dossier and nothing else?

that link is too old to make a valid arguement, a lot has happened since then bud.

 

[paperview]

Tillerson holds firm on Russia sanctions during talks with Putin - Oil | Platts News Article & Story

Oh yea, Tillerson is really working with the Russians there. Trump and Putin are certainly best friends now

Proves NOTHING........Just imagine had Tillerson and Putin shaken hands for EXXON to disregards current sanctions and have them work together.....Even the most "loyal" Trump ass lickers would find it difficult to defend THAT......

Also noticed that Trump acolytes NOW like to say that they "never really liked Trump".....One wonders how the fuck the orange clown managed to sit in the oval office.....Buyers' remorse tinged with lies, anyone?

Yea again I did not vote for him, neither in primary or general election. So why would you suggest that I once liked him, and now all of a sudden I'm changing positions? Makes absolutely no sense, especially considering my position against yours now. My opposition to trump is very very well documented on this message board over the past couple years. Oops, sounds like someone is resorting to ad hominems again, ad hominems with zero truth I might add. Really, I'm a trump acolyte? And therefore I'm wrong, you're right? Ridiculous.

That article is from a couple weeks ago, quoting tillereson when he says he's going to uphold sanctions until Russia stops causing unrest in the Ukraine...WHICH IS WHY WE PUT SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA IN THE FIRST PLACE genius. Guess what the sanctions are still there...they haven't been lifted as you have been suggesting. So what is your point??

We also added Sanctions because of Russian interference in the election, and ousted dozens of Russian diplomats from our country for that.

Remember?

 

[nat4900]

We also added Sanctions because of Russian interference in the election, and ousted dozens of Russian diplomats from our country for that.

Remember?

Of course I remember....hell, Page had to TESTIFY against a couple of Russian spies who tried to recruit his sorry ass.

 

[paperview]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/us/politics/james-comey-election.html

<snip>


"Days after Mr. Comey’s news conference, Carter Page, an American businessman, gave a speech in Moscow criticizing American foreign policy. Such a trip would typically be unremarkable, but Mr. Page had previously been under F.B.I. scrutiny years earlier, as he was believed to have been marked for recruitment by Russian spies. And he was now a foreign policy adviser to Mr. Trump.

Mr. Page has not said whom he met during his July visit to Moscow, describing them as “mostly scholars.” But the F.B.I. took notice. Mr. Page later traveled to Moscow again, raising new concerns among counterintelligence agents. A former senior American intelligence official said that Mr. Page met with a suspected intelligence officer on one of those trips and there was information that the Russians were still very interested in recruiting him.

Later that month, the website WikiLeaks began releasing hacked emails from the D.N.C. Roger J. Stone Jr., another Trump adviser, boasted publicly about his contact with WikiLeaks and suggested he had inside knowledge about forthcoming leaks. And Mr. Trump himself fueled the F.B.I.’s suspicions, showering Mr. Putin with praise and calling for more hacking of Mrs. Clinton’s emails.

“Russia, if you’re listening,” he said, “I hope you’ll be able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.”


In late July, the F.B.I. opened an investigation into possible collusion between members of Mr. Trump’s campaign and Russian operatives. Besides Mr. Comey and a small team of agents, officials said, only a dozen or so people at the F.B.I. knew about the investigation. Mr. Strzok, just days removed from the Clinton case, was selected to supervise it.

It was a worrisome time at the F.B.I. Agents saw increased activity by Russian intelligence officers in the United States, and a former senior American intelligence official said there were attempts by Russian intelligence officers to talk to people involved in the campaign. Russian hackers had also been detected trying to break into voter registration systems, and intelligence intercepts indicated some sort of plan to interfere with the election."

Much more at link.

It was in late July the FBI investigation into Trump's campaign was opened. The dossier came later.

 

[Aries]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/us/politics/james-comey-election.html

that partisan dog.

 

[sakinago]

That article is from a couple weeks ago, quoting tillereson when he says he's going to uphold sanctions until Russia stops causing unrest in the Ukraine...WHICH IS WHY WE PUT SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA IN THE FIRST PLACE genius. Guess what the sanctions are still there...they haven't been lifted as you have been suggesting. So what is your point??

LAME......very lame......

You're one of the rats abandoning ship with your fence sitting....You're a Trump ass licker whether you want to now admit it or not.

The RNC convention platform CLEARLY states that if elected, the GOP candidates would soften their stance on sanctions which began with Russia invasion of the Crimea and now extend to eastern Ukraine.

Live with your fuck up......

Look at the threads I created alone, titles: Why the trump love, the trump bus is driving off the cliff still time to jump off, you voted for him this is what you get. Yea I'm really a closet trump lover. Again my views on trump are very well documented on this site, they are not positive. Look them up, it's all right there, you're sounding even more stupid than usual.

 

[paperview]

We also added Sanctions because of Russian interference in the election, and ousted dozens of Russian diplomats from our country for that.

Remember?

Of course I remember....hell, Page had to TESTIFY against a couple of Russian spies who tried to recruit his sorry ass.

My comment was addressed to Sakin, who seems to have forgotten.

 

[sakinago]

Tillerson holds firm on Russia sanctions during talks with Putin - Oil | Platts News Article & Story

Oh yea, Tillerson is really working with the Russians there. Trump and Putin are certainly best friends now

Proves NOTHING........Just imagine had Tillerson and Putin shaken hands for EXXON to disregards current sanctions and have them work together.....Even the most "loyal" Trump ass lickers would find it difficult to defend THAT......

Also noticed that Trump acolytes NOW like to say that they "never really liked Trump".....One wonders how the fuck the orange clown managed to sit in the oval office.....Buyers' remorse tinged with lies, anyone?

Yea again I did not vote for him, neither in primary or general election. So why would you suggest that I once liked him, and now all of a sudden I'm changing positions? Makes absolutely no sense, especially considering my position against yours now. My opposition to trump is very very well documented on this message board over the past couple years. Oops, sounds like someone is resorting to ad hominems again, ad hominems with zero truth I might add. Really, I'm a trump acolyte? And therefore I'm wrong, you're right? Ridiculous.

That article is from a couple weeks ago, quoting tillereson when he says he's going to uphold sanctions until Russia stops causing unrest in the Ukraine...WHICH IS WHY WE PUT SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA IN THE FIRST PLACE genius. Guess what the sanctions are still there...they haven't been lifted as you have been suggesting. So what is your point??

We also added Sanctions because of Russian interference in the election, and ousted dozens of Russian diplomats from our country for that.

Remember?

That's not why we originally placed sanctions, so what's your point?

Replied to wrong post, meant to reply to nats similar post in response to this, sorry.

 

[OKTexas]

Probably under the "guidance" of FOX and Friends geniuses, right wingers on here, whenever there is mention of possible collusion between the Trumpsters and Russian oligarchs and Russian spies, revert to the trite: "Show me the proof?"

Now, the question arises (not that these same right wing nitwits could ever admit) if there already WAS proof, we wouldn't be subjected to the world embarrassment of an orange clown in the oval office........Proof is the result of careful, objective and unhindered investigations by both our intelligence agencies and [hopefully] congressional oversight committees.

We can witness this drip, drip, drip of allegations materializing, and tonight's news is that Carter Page and other Trump advisers were indeed the subject of Russian intelligence recruitment. Since some of these investigations go back to last summer, the issue is NOT whether Putin and his cohorts are currently recruiting, BUT whether the earlier recruitment led to collusion, such as the RNC platform's softening on Russian land grab in the Ukraine and Crimea.

Now, rarely there may be smoke but no fire.....but much more often, this amount of "smoke" CANNOT be witnessed without there having been a smoldering fire.

I've heard report that you're a Russian Troll, trying to sew discord and distrust in our government. Personally, I tend to believe it.

 

[paperview]

Tillerson holds firm on Russia sanctions during talks with Putin - Oil | Platts News Article & Story

Oh yea, Tillerson is really working with the Russians there. Trump and Putin are certainly best friends now

Proves NOTHING........Just imagine had Tillerson and Putin shaken hands for EXXON to disregards current sanctions and have them work together.....Even the most "loyal" Trump ass lickers would find it difficult to defend THAT......

Also noticed that Trump acolytes NOW like to say that they "never really liked Trump".....One wonders how the fuck the orange clown managed to sit in the oval office.....Buyers' remorse tinged with lies, anyone?

Yea again I did not vote for him, neither in primary or general election. So why would you suggest that I once liked him, and now all of a sudden I'm changing positions? Makes absolutely no sense, especially considering my position against yours now. My opposition to trump is very very well documented on this message board over the past couple years. Oops, sounds like someone is resorting to ad hominems again, ad hominems with zero truth I might add. Really, I'm a trump acolyte? And therefore I'm wrong, you're right? Ridiculous.

That article is from a couple weeks ago, quoting tillereson when he says he's going to uphold sanctions until Russia stops causing unrest in the Ukraine...WHICH IS WHY WE PUT SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA IN THE FIRST PLACE genius. Guess what the sanctions are still there...they haven't been lifted as you have been suggesting. So what is your point??

We also added Sanctions because of Russian interference in the election, and ousted dozens of Russian diplomats from our country for that.

Remember?

That's not why we originally placed sanctions, so what's your point?

Replied to wrong post, meant to reply to nats similar post in response to this, sorry.

Are you having trouble with the word "added" ?

 

[sakinago]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/us/politics/james-comey-election.html

<snip>


"Days after Mr. Comey’s news conference, Carter Page, an American businessman, gave a speech in Moscow criticizing American foreign policy. Such a trip would typically be unremarkable, but Mr. Page had previously been under F.B.I. scrutiny years earlier, as he was believed to have been marked for recruitment by Russian spies. And he was now a foreign policy adviser to Mr. Trump.

Mr. Page has not said whom he met during his July visit to Moscow, describing them as “mostly scholars.” But the F.B.I. took notice. Mr. Page later traveled to Moscow again, raising new concerns among counterintelligence agents. A former senior American intelligence official said that Mr. Page met with a suspected intelligence officer on one of those trips and there was information that the Russians were still very interested in recruiting him.

Later that month, the website WikiLeaks began releasing hacked emails from the D.N.C. Roger J. Stone Jr., another Trump adviser, boasted publicly about his contact with WikiLeaks and suggested he had inside knowledge about forthcoming leaks. And Mr. Trump himself fueled the F.B.I.’s suspicions, showering Mr. Putin with praise and calling for more hacking of Mrs. Clinton’s emails.

“Russia, if you’re listening,” he said, “I hope you’ll be able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.”


In late July, the F.B.I. opened an investigation into possible collusion between members of Mr. Trump’s campaign and Russian operatives. Besides Mr. Comey and a small team of agents, officials said, only a dozen or so people at the F.B.I. knew about the investigation. Mr. Strzok, just days removed from the Clinton case, was selected to supervise it.

It was a worrisome time at the F.B.I. Agents saw increased activity by Russian intelligence officers in the United States, and a former senior American intelligence official said there were attempts by Russian intelligence officers to talk to people involved in the campaign. Russian hackers had also been detected trying to break into voter registration systems, and intelligence intercepts indicated some sort of plan to interfere with the election."

Much more at link.

It was in late July the FBI investigation into Trump's campaign was opened. The dossier came later.

Again...what is in the dossier that warrants any sort of investigation? So far no one is able to cite anything outside of the dossier, of what has changed since October, to now. Flynn lying about being in contact with Russia? Really th guy who was forced to resign after a month, that's Russia/Trump collusion? All we know is that there was indeed an unmasking, the reasons for the unmasking are still unknown.

 

[paperview]

"President Barack Obama took unprecedented steps Thursday to retaliate against alleged Russian interference in the 2016 election, prompting vows from Russian authorities that Moscow will respond in kind.

The administration described Russia's involvement as "Significant Malicious Cyber-Enabled Activities" and sanctioned four Russian individuals and five Russian entities for what it said was election interference. The administration also ordered 35 Russian diplomats to leave the country and two Russian compounds are being closed.

This is the first time the names of Russian officials involved in the hacking have become public on the sanctions list.

"Russia's cyberactivities were intended to influence the election, erode faith in US democratic institutions, sow doubt about the integrity of our electoral process, and undermine confidence in the institutions of the US government," a White House statement said. "These actions are unacceptable and will not be tolerated."


According to statements from the White House and the Treasury Department, the government has sanctioned nine entities and individuals over their alleged interference in the election: the GRU and the FSB, which are two Russian intelligence services; four individual officers of the GRU; and three companies that provided material support to the GRU's operations.

The US also separately sanctioned two Russian individuals, Evgeniy Mikhailovich Bogachev and Alexey Belan, for using cyber-enabled means to allegedly cause misappropriation of funds and personal identifying information. They've long been sought by the FBI.

Russia sanctions announced by White House, Obama ejects diplomats - CNNPolitics.com

 

[sakinago]

Tillerson holds firm on Russia sanctions during talks with Putin - Oil | Platts News Article & Story

Oh yea, Tillerson is really working with the Russians there. Trump and Putin are certainly best friends now

Proves NOTHING........Just imagine had Tillerson and Putin shaken hands for EXXON to disregards current sanctions and have them work together.....Even the most "loyal" Trump ass lickers would find it difficult to defend THAT......

Also noticed that Trump acolytes NOW like to say that they "never really liked Trump".....One wonders how the fuck the orange clown managed to sit in the oval office.....Buyers' remorse tinged with lies, anyone?

Yea again I did not vote for him, neither in primary or general election. So why would you suggest that I once liked him, and now all of a sudden I'm changing positions? Makes absolutely no sense, especially considering my position against yours now. My opposition to trump is very very well documented on this message board over the past couple years. Oops, sounds like someone is resorting to ad hominems again, ad hominems with zero truth I might add. Really, I'm a trump acolyte? And therefore I'm wrong, you're right? Ridiculous.

That article is from a couple weeks ago, quoting tillereson when he says he's going to uphold sanctions until Russia stops causing unrest in the Ukraine...WHICH IS WHY WE PUT SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA IN THE FIRST PLACE genius. Guess what the sanctions are still there...they haven't been lifted as you have been suggesting. So what is your point??

We also added Sanctions because of Russian interference in the election, and ousted dozens of Russian diplomats from our country for that.

Remember?

That's not why we originally placed sanctions, so what's your point?

Replied to wrong post, meant to reply to nats similar post in response to this, sorry.

Are you having trouble with the word "added" ?

No, just that it does nothing to refute the point that tillerson just said a couple of weeks ago the sanctions against Russia will be upheld until Russia backs away from the Ukraine, which is in fact how the sanctions got there in the first place...so again what's your point. Are you still saying tillerson is working with Russians by removing sanctions?

 

[paperview]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/us/politics/james-comey-election.html

<snip>


"Days after Mr. Comey’s news conference, Carter Page, an American businessman, gave a speech in Moscow criticizing American foreign policy. Such a trip would typically be unremarkable, but Mr. Page had previously been under F.B.I. scrutiny years earlier, as he was believed to have been marked for recruitment by Russian spies. And he was now a foreign policy adviser to Mr. Trump.

Mr. Page has not said whom he met during his July visit to Moscow, describing them as “mostly scholars.” But the F.B.I. took notice. Mr. Page later traveled to Moscow again, raising new concerns among counterintelligence agents. A former senior American intelligence official said that Mr. Page met with a suspected intelligence officer on one of those trips and there was information that the Russians were still very interested in recruiting him.

Later that month, the website WikiLeaks began releasing hacked emails from the D.N.C. Roger J. Stone Jr., another Trump adviser, boasted publicly about his contact with WikiLeaks and suggested he had inside knowledge about forthcoming leaks. And Mr. Trump himself fueled the F.B.I.’s suspicions, showering Mr. Putin with praise and calling for more hacking of Mrs. Clinton’s emails.

“Russia, if you’re listening,” he said, “I hope you’ll be able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.”


In late July, the F.B.I. opened an investigation into possible collusion between members of Mr. Trump’s campaign and Russian operatives. Besides Mr. Comey and a small team of agents, officials said, only a dozen or so people at the F.B.I. knew about the investigation. Mr. Strzok, just days removed from the Clinton case, was selected to supervise it.

It was a worrisome time at the F.B.I. Agents saw increased activity by Russian intelligence officers in the United States, and a former senior American intelligence official said there were attempts by Russian intelligence officers to talk to people involved in the campaign. Russian hackers had also been detected trying to break into voter registration systems, and intelligence intercepts indicated some sort of plan to interfere with the election."

Much more at link.

It was in late July the FBI investigation into Trump's campaign was opened. The dossier came later.

Again...what is in the dossier that warrants any sort of investigation? So far no one is able to cite anything outside of the dossier, of what has changed since October, to now. Flynn lying about being in contact with Russia? Really th guy who was forced to resign after a month, that's Russia/Trump collusion? All we know is that there was indeed an unmasking, the reasons for the unmasking are still unknown.

Maybe you should consider reading the link.

 

[whitehall]

The crazy left demands "irrefutable proof" when the U.S. intelligence agencies don't even allege a connection between the Trump campaign and Russian spies. It's like trying to prove a negative.

 

[Care4all]

so she was honest! There will be situations where things are highly classified and she could lie to us for the purpose of not revealing classified information.