Which is the greater problem for America?

[orogenicman]

African Americans aren't the only ones with fatherless (or motherless) children. So why single them out? That seems to me to be much more irresponsible. If a woman leaves an abusive relationship with her husband, who are you to deny her the support she needs?

You are being disingenuous. You know as well as i do, and the rest of America, that there is a significant problem in the black community. There is a much higher percentage of fatherless households in that community, hence the insane highschool drop out rates and violence. What do you possibly hope to gain by pretending that they dont have a level of crime that far exceds all other cultures in the US? Do you even care about trying to fix those problems? If it isnt the fact that fathers arent around, how do YOU explain it?

You are going to have to back up your extraordinary claims with valid, repeatable evidence. For instance, you have not established a connection between fatherless households and the dropout rate. My 6 siblings and I were fatherless, and all of us graduated, have been successful, and in fact, I have a M.S. degree in Geology. My stepdaughter raised her oldest son without dad being present, and that grandson is a sophomore at Middle Tennessee University in their engineering Department. You blame the crime rate on fatherless black families, and I just think that comes from ignorance, and maybe bigotry.

WHAT...THE...FUCK? Are you serious right now? Are you really going to sit there and pretend that there isn't a significant problem in the black community? The highest crime rate, the most dropouts, most likely to spend time in jail, the most fatherless households. The black community performs far below average in every conceivable category societies are measured by. Are you going to pretend like there isn't a problem there?

If all their problems aren't related to poor upbringing, due to so many single parent households, then you tell me why this phenomenon exists.

I'm saying that you are (whether it is intentional or not) ignoring other factors for the crime rate. Fatherless families, regardless of race, are four times more likely to live in poverty.

According to the U.S. Department of health and Human Services, “Fatherless children are at a dramatically greater risk of drug and alcohol abuse.” Moveover, There is significantly more drug use among children who do not live with their mother and father. In addition, Children living in single parent homes are more than twice as likely to commit suicide. 71% of high school dropouts are fatherless. And finally, adolescents who live in neighborhoods with lower proportions of single-parent families and who report higher levels of family integration commit less violence. This is true regardless of race.

Now, it may well be that African Americans have a higher percentage of fatherless families. But, African Americans also have much higher levels of daily stress than other races because they are five times more likely to have to deal with racism than other families. That stress has a direct effect on families, which leads to a higher rate of family dysfunction, including poverty and crime.

The point I'm raising here is that the problem is far more complex than you realize. So instead of blaming African Americans for the problem, perhaps you need to look much deeper at the overall problem, and instead of assigning blame, perhaps we should be talking about solutions.

Off the top of your head, name the top 5 most dangerous white neighborhoods in the US. There are more poor white people in the US than poor black people, therefore if your theory is true, there should be more dangerous white neighborhoods, so name them.

Look, I never said that the worst crime rates aren't in areas that are predominantly African American. Apparently, you didn't even bother to read my post, or if you did, you misread it. The point is that there are many reasons other than race to explain the high crime rates in poor areas, and that instead of trying to blame someone based on race (which is morally and ethically wrong), you should be trying to find a solution.

Having said that. if you want to know about poor white neighborhoods, I can think of two off the top of my heard (from personal experience). They are the Portland and Sylvania neighborhoods in Louisville, Kentucky. Both are home to white crackheads and other drug, toluene and alcohol abusers, many of whom are blatantly racist as well. African Americans have been attacked in hate crimes in those neighborhoods. One African American couple made the mistake of moving into the Sylvania neighborhood, and woke up one morning with a burning cross on their front lawn. This didn't happen in the 1930s. It occurred just a few years ago. They were driven out of the neighborhood within a month of moving in.

 

[Godboy]

Look, I never said that the worst crime rates aren't in areas that are predominantly African American. Apparently, you didn't even bother to read my post, or if you did, you misread it. The point is that there are many reasons other than race to explain the high crime rates in poor areas, and that instead of trying to blame someone based on race (which is morally and ethically wrong), you should be trying to find a solution.

I blamed it on fatherless households, NOT race. Ignoring the impact of so many fatherless households is not a solution. The problem here is cultural, and until people like you admit that there is a problem, how are we ever going to fix it? Blaming poverty will accomplish nothing, because like I just demonstrated, it isn't about being poor. There are plenty of poor white neighborhoods, and not one of them comes close to the level of crime and overall violence as you see in every black neighborhood in the country. This is a cultural problem, not a financial one.

 

[orogenicman]

Look, I never said that the worst crime rates aren't in areas that are predominantly African American. Apparently, you didn't even bother to read my post, or if you did, you misread it. The point is that there are many reasons other than race to explain the high crime rates in poor areas, and that instead of trying to blame someone based on race (which is morally and ethically wrong), you should be trying to find a solution.

I blamed it on fatherless households, NOT race. Ignoring the impact of so many fatherless households is not a solution. The problem here is cultural, and until people like you admit that there is a problem, how are we ever going to fix it? Blaming poverty will accomplish nothing, because like I just demonstrated, it isn't about being poor. There are plenty of poor white neighborhoods, and not one of them comes close to the level of crime and overall violence as you see in every black neighborhood in the country. This is a cultural problem, not a financial one.

Funny that you should accuse me of ignoring the problem, since I am the only one of the two of us who posted verifiable statistics on the matter.

 

[Godboy]

Look, I never said that the worst crime rates aren't in areas that are predominantly African American. Apparently, you didn't even bother to read my post, or if you did, you misread it. The point is that there are many reasons other than race to explain the high crime rates in poor areas, and that instead of trying to blame someone based on race (which is morally and ethically wrong), you should be trying to find a solution.

I blamed it on fatherless households, NOT race. Ignoring the impact of so many fatherless households is not a solution. The problem here is cultural, and until people like you admit that there is a problem, how are we ever going to fix it? Blaming poverty will accomplish nothing, because like I just demonstrated, it isn't about being poor. There are plenty of poor white neighborhoods, and not one of them comes close to the level of crime and overall violence as you see in every black neighborhood in the country. This is a cultural problem, not a financial one.

Funny that you should accuse me of ignoring the problem, since I am the only one of the two of us who posted verifiable statistics on the matter.

Your statitics are irrelevent to this discussion because they dont explain why there is so much more crime in the black community. You are avoiding the truth. Why?

 

[Rozman]

Cops sometimes shooting unarmed persons who resisted arrest, or, deadbeat parents having kids they are unwilling to support?

Discuss.

Having a national debt unpayably large is the only real problem. So long as that remains, a nationwide collapse is unavoidable.

And yet I see all these posts that call for the US to spend more....

Insane.

 

[EverCurious]

Your statitics are irrelevent to this discussion because they dont explain why there is so much more crime in the black community. You are avoiding the truth. Why?

I'll take a stab at explaining higher crime rates in black community. I think it's because African American families did not historically have a rigid traditional English social/cultural upbringing, they had a more primitive tribal society/culture upbringing, which was compounded further, in the case of America, by non-tribal slavery where they were likely beaten if they thought for themselves; these slaves had a culture that had to be hidden, that was not accepted, that was not "allowed." Much like many care-free reckless teenagers in their rebellion years, black culture/society too, is going through a period of rebellion as they try to establish themselves as "adults," or in social/cultural terms, establish recognition, non-oppression, and acceptance of their society/culture as equal Americans. This is similarly seen in white groups throughout history as well if you think about it; Christianity {and their moral beliefs,} [and by extension] the inquisition {and their murder of non-believers}, hippy's {with their drugs and free love}, and many other social transitions across the world throughout recorded time. Every society needs to 'grow up' and work through 'rough patches' in social/cultural upbringing conflict or change. While it is a tough period, and comes with a lot of crap, I think it's a normal process that we /will/ get through eventually, as long as we can stick through it as a country, as a unified and accepting social/cultural blend.

The big issue in my mind is that the majority have already processed through these 'rough patches' and they think they can keep tightening down the screws on the "minority" to force them to adopt what they consider to be culturally/socially acceptable, they've already condemned whatever behavior etc. But they forget the time it took for them to adopt their own social/cultural changes, and they have no patience for the social/cultural realization of ANYONE else's social/culture. We as a country need to develop a compromising 'new' social/cultural identity, one that accepts whatever eventual African American social/cultural norm comes out of this (and other social/cultural groups), and a social/cultural norm of "white" community that African American's (and other social/cultural groups) can accept too.

-- I'm not saying it's right to go around killing each other, obviously that needs to be punished. I'm also not saying either side is right or wrong, nor more "evolved" or not - I'm just looking at what I see as overall root cause.

I think both sides are in the wrong frankly. I think there is a presumption from a lot of white people, not just cops, that blacks are prone to criminal, oft violent, behavior (regardless of if they actually are or not.) On the other side there is a presumption from a lot of black people, not just criminals, that whites still think of them as lesser humans, basically as slaves, or /worse/ people. These are unfortunate and incorrect on both sides and I sometimes do wish there was a way to just erase the social/cultural upbringing and history of BOTH sides [aka brainwash them all] and start the fuck over, but these things need to be realized or worked out and come to on their own [they cannot be forced, beaten in, nor regulated into, society/culture as a whole; it is a blending process that is going to take time.]


And yes, I've been informed I am apparently a racist. In reality I don't hate /anyone/ at all, I'm merely disappointed by individual stupidities...

 

[Moonglow]

Well...cops shoot and kill about 1, 000 a year. Or...about 0.1% of cops. Id say at LEAST 700 of those are clearly unquestionably justified.

So lets say about 200 or so shaky shootings or even clear bad shoots.

Versus.....

Millions of children with no father or child support...growing up poor and with no positive influence...most destined for a life of poverty and crime.

Hmmmm. Seeing as Problem 2 directly leads to Problem 1 and is MUCH more vast and common....problem 2 is worse.

It didn't seem to bother the ancestors to live in poverty...

 

[OnePercenter]

Cops sometimes shooting unarmed persons who resisted arrest, or, deadbeat parents having kids they are unwilling to support?

Discuss.

Republicans continuing to screw the middle class.