Which should have first priority: The woman, the fertilized egg, or the fetus?

[JakeStarkey]

"If it breaks, you should take responsibility for the results of your actions" is the statement of a man who cannot critically think.

 

[Redfish]

No, you imply that an act should not be criminal due to economic reasons.

What are you talking about? I am saying if you are going to make women have babies regardless, then you got an obligation to the infant, podjo.

The state doesn't participate in the child's creation.

The state has the obligation for the welfare of its citizens. Always.

except its unborn ones, right?

That is the choice of the the mother, not the state.

illogical argument. Either the unborn human being is a human being or it isn't. Tell us the exact moment when a fetus becomes a human being entitled to constitutional rights. Does it magically occur at 6 months, 9 months, the instant of birth, severing the umbilical cord?

 

[Maryland Patriot]

So the poor can rob banks, insurance fraud? What else?

Non sequitur, Pop. Those are your silly words, which logically do not derive from my comments. If we are going to forbid abortion, we have a community responsibility morally for mother and baby.

No, you imply that an act should not be criminal due to economic reasons.

What are you talking about? I am saying if you are going to make women have babies regardless, then you got an obligation to the infant, podjo.

The state doesn't participate in the child's creation.

The state has the obligation for the welfare of its citizens. Always.

define the limits of welfare.

 

[Redfish]

"If it breaks, you should take responsibility for the results of your actions" is the statement of a man who cannot critically think.

so should the condom company be held liable and forced to take responsibility for the child for the next 18 years.

Why do you libs refuse to ever be responsible for anything? Why do you want to be sheep and slaves to the all-knowing government?

 

[Redfish]

Non sequitur, Pop. Those are your silly words, which logically do not derive from my comments. If we are going to forbid abortion, we have a community responsibility morally for mother and baby.

No, you imply that an act should not be criminal due to economic reasons.

What are you talking about? I am saying if you are going to make women have babies regardless, then you got an obligation to the infant, podjo.

The state doesn't participate in the child's creation.

The state has the obligation for the welfare of its citizens. Always.

define the limits of welfare.

according to libs there are no limits.

 

[kaz]

stfu. When you get to be host to something you don't want growing in you, then you might have a say since you ARE the host. Until then...fuck off.

Then use birth control, or don't have sex, it's really quite simple! You act like women are victims of pregnancy when they have total control over that, 100% complete and total control! Quit trying to portray women as stupid, helpless victims! Women are powerful, strong, intelligent, independant.... UNTIL they get pregnant, then all of a sudden they're a poor, helpless, victim and have the role of 'host' forced on them. So why don't you STFU and control your own damn body and quit whining like a helpless victim when you're anything but! If a woman gets pregnant, it's exactly because she didn't exert control over her own body, don't you dumbasses ever get it???

Both my kids were conceived while my wife was on her Birth control. I broke right through them. condoms break, Pills don't always work, and sometimes its just none of your damn business what a couple or woman decides to do.

No birth control is 100% effective, so no, women don't have 100% control by using birth control.

The majority of women who have abortions are married or in committed relationships. Do you think married women should deny their husbands sex to avoid pregnancy?

its about taking responsibility for your actions. If the condom breaks, have the child, then if you don't want it, give it up for adoption, don't kill it.

A condon IS taking responsibility for one's actions. Beyond using it correctly - what further responsibility should be required?

Of course you are responsible for using a condom and it failing. When you have sex, you know the odds and decide to accept the risk. That you aren't responsible because to tried? Ridiculous. Welcome to being an adult

 

[kaz]

"If it breaks, you should take responsibility for the results of your actions" is the statement of a man who cannot critically think.

so should the condom company be held liable and forced to take responsibility for the child for the next 18 years.

Why do you libs refuse to ever be responsible for anything? Why do you want to be sheep and slaves to the all-knowing government?

If libs took responsibility for anything, there wouldn't be a Democrat party

 

[JakeStarkey]

What are you talking about? I am saying if you are going to make women have babies regardless, then you got an obligation to the infant, podjo.

The state doesn't participate in the child's creation.

The state has the obligation for the welfare of its citizens. Always.

except its unborn ones, right?

That is the choice of the the mother, not the state.

illogical argument. Either the unborn human being is a human being or it isn't. Tell us the exact moment when a fetus becomes a human being entitled to constitutional rights. Does it magically occur at 6 months, 9 months, the instant of birth, severing the umbilical cord?

Your deflection and failure is so noted here.

We are discussing whether if we force all women to carry the baby to birth, then what responsibility do we have for mother and baby.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

The state doesn't participate in the child's creation.

The state has the obligation for the welfare of its citizens. Always.

except its unborn ones, right?

That is the choice of the the mother, not the state.

illogical argument. Either the unborn human being is a human being or it isn't. Tell us the exact moment when a fetus becomes a human being entitled to constitutional rights. Does it magically occur at 6 months, 9 months, the instant of birth, severing the umbilical cord?

Your deflection and failure is so noted here.

We are discussing whether if we force all women to carry the baby to birth, then what responsibility do we have for mother and baby.

I guess I should apologize for not thanking you for the donation to raise my daughter when she was born.
Im sure you sent a rather substantial check.
Very rude of me.

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

You realize that, in any real way, the fertilized egg and the fetus are the same entity, right? I assume you listed it this way for the sake of people who somehow think "time elapsed" is a relevant concern, but just to be clear, saying, "the fertilized egg or the fetus" is like saying, "the toddler or the teenager".

 

[Redfish]

The state doesn't participate in the child's creation.

The state has the obligation for the welfare of its citizens. Always.

except its unborn ones, right?

That is the choice of the the mother, not the state.

illogical argument. Either the unborn human being is a human being or it isn't. Tell us the exact moment when a fetus becomes a human being entitled to constitutional rights. Does it magically occur at 6 months, 9 months, the instant of birth, severing the umbilical cord?

Your deflection and failure is so noted here.

We are discussing whether if we force all women to carry the baby to birth, then what responsibility do we have for mother and baby.

None, unless you participated in the act that caused the pregnancy.

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

First priority under what circumstance? If there's a circumstance where being pregnant is putting a woman's life a risk, most people on both sides of the debate can agree the woman's life is the first priority.

Actually, most people DON'T agree on that. Where they agree is that, in the extremely rare case where it's a choice between the mother's life or the child's, the unimaginably horrible choice should reside with the woman and her family. There's no "most" about those women and their families choosing to sacrifice the child.

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

First priority under what circumstance? If there's a circumstance where being pregnant is putting a woman's life a risk, most people on both sides of the debate can agree the woman's life is the first priority.

In other words, you don't believe the choice is totally up to the woman?

I'd say no more than we think the "choice" to kill any other human being resides solely with the killer-to-be.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Life begins at conception. If it begins it was God's will...and so the fertilized egg has first priority. If woman does not want the child...put it up for adoption.

I disagree, it's a crapshoot.

Fate of a Fertilized Egg: Why Some Embryos Don't Implant

Yeah, well, people also die randomly at every other stage of life. Doesn't make it okay to deliberately kill them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Abortion is repugnant. Period. However, I believe the final decision should be up to the woman - UNLESS she is judged to be legally incompetent to make the final decision.

Why? Specifically, why do you believe THIS killing is a personal choice, as opposed to all other killings?

 

[Cecilie1200]

BTW you are being completely dishonest by pretending we aren't talking about a child.

Not everyone sees the mass of cells as a child. For me, the simple meeting of the sperm and egg does not a human being make. Now, exactly when this mass becomes a viable human being, I don't know. Some premies wouldn't continue to live without mechanical assistance. Are they not human beings? Ask mom and dad. And yet, if it comes down to it, if the birth of the child is going to kill mom for sure, but aborting the child will save her, I say save mom. Although, maybe mom would say save baby. It's a good thing I'll never be in that position.

Not everyone sees a lot of things, but ignorance of reality doesn't change reality. This isn't a matter of religious belief, however fanatically you support it. It's a matter of scientific fact: a human being is what it is, whether recognizing and respecting that fact fits your personal priorities or not.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Abortion is repugnant. Period. However, I believe the final decision should be up to the woman - UNLESS she is judged to be legally incompetent to make the final decision.

Agreed, but a decent woman will consider the the view of the father.

A decent man won't impregnate a woman with whom he does not have that sort of relationship bond.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The argument is made that a fetus is not a human being.

I don't know at which stage of life that a fetus becomes a human being if at all.

Only a fool would argue that a fetus isn't a potential human being. I catch hell from the right to lifers, but I consider a fetus a baby when I can hear two heartbeats from a woman.

And you base that arbitrary standard on what science, exactly?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I wish more posters would vote in the poll. So far, only 8 have voted out of about 20 posters. It could be that some aren't sure how they really feel.

No, I just don't vote in polls. Typically, they're much too simplistic. You need only read my posts to know what I think (I spend very little time making decisions based on 'feelz').

 

[WelfareQueen]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

If the baby is viable and it is killed that is murder. Period.