Which Would You Prefer?

[flacaltenn]

So.....I am caught off guard with this denial regarding subsidies......so I go to the Heritage Foundation to see what they have to say about oil subsidies.

BINGO! You fuckers are following the party line. I am shocked.

You don't consider tax concessions to be subsidies.......because........well........because!

Dishonest fuckers.

Theres subtantial dishonesty here if you consider tax concessions that every corporation gets to be specially evil if an oil company gets one. Find some that are PARTICULAR to oil companies and we can chat about those.. HINT ---- There are some. But they mostly have to do with exploration and development on FEDERAL lands. Similar to the Forest Service seeling cheap timber to logging companies that help them maintain access and inventory on those lands...

And even if you find some, its still not a sufficient argument for excess funding of wind or solar...

 

[Ringel05]

So.....I am caught off guard with this denial regarding subsidies......so I go to the Heritage Foundation to see what they have to say about oil subsidies.

BINGO! You fuckers are following the party line. I am shocked.

You don't consider tax concessions to be subsidies.......because........well........because!

Dishonest fuckers.

Uuummmm, legally and by definition tax concessions and subsidies are two different things....... Who's being the dishonest fucker.........? Look in the mirror before you answer.

 

[Ringel05]

So.....I am caught off guard with this denial regarding subsidies......so I go to the Heritage Foundation to see what they have to say about oil subsidies.

BINGO! You fuckers are following the party line. I am shocked.

You don't consider tax concessions to be subsidies.......because........well........because!

Dishonest fuckers.

Again, speaking of dishonest fuckers........ Try telling the whole story.......

Which Companies Pay The Most In Taxes? - Forbes

ExxonMobil in 2011 (alone) made $27.3 billion in cash payments for income taxes. Chevron paid $17 billion and ConocoPhillips $10.6 billion. And not only were these the highest amounts in absolute terms, when compared with the rest of the 25 most profitable U.S. companies (see our slideshow for the full rundown of who paid what), the trio also had the highest effective tax rates. Exxon’s tax rate was 42.9%, Chevron’s was 48.3% and Conoco’s was 41.5%. That’s even higher than the 35% U.S. federal statutory rate, which is already the highest tax rate among developed nations.

 

[LoneLaugher]

So.....I am caught off guard with this denial regarding subsidies......so I go to the Heritage Foundation to see what they have to say about oil subsidies.

BINGO! You fuckers are following the party line. I am shocked.

You don't consider tax concessions to be subsidies.......because........well........because!

Dishonest fuckers.

Uuummmm, legally and by definition tax concessions and subsidies are two different things....... Who's being the dishonest fucker.........? Look in the mirror before you answer.

Semantics.

You all do not wish to respond to the OP. That much is clear.

 

[Ringel05]

So.....I am caught off guard with this denial regarding subsidies......so I go to the Heritage Foundation to see what they have to say about oil subsidies.

BINGO! You fuckers are following the party line. I am shocked.

You don't consider tax concessions to be subsidies.......because........well........because!

Dishonest fuckers.

Uuummmm, legally and by definition tax concessions and subsidies are two different things....... Who's being the dishonest fucker.........? Look in the mirror before you answer.

Semantics.

You all do not wish to respond to the OP. That much is clear.

I am responding to the OP and "it's" deliberate disinformation spiel.

Semantics??!!

 

[Mr. H.]

Is that right? Care to substantiate that?

You laid the claim. Pony up.

Sorry - YOU made the claim that oil and gas receive no subsidies.

And you might as well just wear a T-Shirt that says "I have no clue what I'm talking about."

After 37 years of pumping the shit out of the ground, I have yet to receive a subsidy in any form. No mailbox money for me. Ever. And I do know the difference between Agricultural subsidies and standard business expense deductions from taxable income.


Bitch

 

[LoneLaugher]

Uuummmm, legally and by definition tax concessions and subsidies are two different things....... Who's being the dishonest fucker.........? Look in the mirror before you answer.

Semantics.

You all do not wish to respond to the OP. That much is clear.

I am responding to the OP and "it's" deliberate disinformation spiel.

Semantics??!!

Should solar and wind get the same tax concessions? Or should all tax concessions be eliminated.

Wanna try?

 

[Ringel05]

Semantics.

You all do not wish to respond to the OP. That much is clear.

I am responding to the OP and "it's" deliberate disinformation spiel.

Semantics??!!

Should solar and wind get the same tax concessions? Or should all tax do sessions be eliminated.

Wanna try?

Concede you were playing fast and loose with the facts and I'll play. Wanna try?

 

[LoneLaugher]

I am responding to the OP and "it's" deliberate disinformation spiel.

Semantics??!!

Should solar and wind get the same tax concessions? Or should all tax do sessions be eliminated.

Wanna try?

Concede you were playing fast and loose with the facts and I'll play. Wanna try?

I will concede that my definition of subsidies....and yours...do not jive. The WTO agrees with me.......but let's not concern ourselves with that.

Before continuing....are you going to accept as fact that oil and gas are provided greater tax concessions and overall business advantages than solar and wind? If not....please......don't bother. I am not interested in what you have to say.

Your turn.

 

[Ringel05]

Should solar and wind get the same tax concessions? Or should all tax do sessions be eliminated.

Wanna try?

Concede you were playing fast and loose with the facts and I'll play. Wanna try?

I will concede that my definition of subsidies....and yours...do not jive. The WTO agrees with me.......but let's not concern ourselves with that.

Before continuing....are you going to accept as fact that oil and gas are provided greater tax concessions and overall business advantages than solar and wind? If not....please......don't bother. I am not interested in what you have to say.

Your turn.

Sure they do but (simply to make some political point) your focus is intentionally narrow........ You're way too transparent.
Now let's talk about the narrow focus. The bill that was defeated (yup many Dems voted against it) would have eliminated many of the tax breaks for big oil. Guess you didn't see the Forbes link I provided concerning what big oil pays now. Weeeellllll, that bill also contained a provision giving renewable energy huge, permanent, non-rescindable tax breaks........ Yup a whole lot of people voted it down.
I have no issues with giving them big tax breaks, never did but I take issue when people start playing fast and loose with facts/definitions simply to bolster their position.
You're not planning on running for office are you.............?

 

[flacaltenn]

Semantics.

You all do not wish to respond to the OP. That much is clear.

I am responding to the OP and "it's" deliberate disinformation spiel.

Semantics??!!

Should solar and wind get the same tax concessions? Or should all tax concessions be eliminated.

Wanna try?

They are already waaaaay over subsidized at every level of their respective marketplaces. On manufacturing, sales and installs, and on per unit unit generated AND given legal right to have their energy USED FIRST on the grid..

 

[RGR]

Before continuing....are you going to accept as fact that oil and gas are provided greater tax concessions and overall business advantages than solar and wind? If not....please......don't bother. I am not interested in what you have to say.

Your turn.

Agree with my incoherent position and promise to be as stupid as I am first....interesting debating tactic...I will try it sometime should I ever become a spineless jellyfish and become retarded from blunt force trauma to the head.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Before continuing....are you going to accept as fact that oil and gas are provided greater tax concessions and overall business advantages than solar and wind? If not....please......don't bother. I am not interested in what you have to say.

Your turn.

Agree with my incoherent position and promise to be as stupid as I am first....interesting debating tactic...I will try it sometime should I ever become a spineless jellyfish and become retarded from blunt force trauma to the head.

It was incoherent? What didn't you understand? Since this is our very first interaction, I will be happy to explain it to you. What can I help you with?

 

[RGR]

Since this is our very first interaction, I will be happy to explain it to you. What can I help you with?

Sure. Here is your comment, and flacaltenn's response that you avoided like the plague.

The fucked up part is that...in the end.....none of you even care where your power comes from. The opposition to green energy is PURELY POLITICAL in nature. You are compelled to fall in line and support the fossil fuel industry. You've been duped.

You got that part completely Bass-Ackwards.. The FRAUD is in the massive disinformation campaign to convince folks that there ARE ALTERNATIVES to where their electricity currently comes from.. Wind/Solar are SUPPLEMENTS, never were ALTERNATIVES. And they FAIL miserably to substitute for reliable, scheduled power delivery 24/7/365 which is what is DEMANDED in an advanced society..

It does not appear that the position is purely political at all. It appears to revolve around your misunderstanding of exactly how electrical generation works, at the practical level.

Your avoidance of who pays the most in terms of taxes doesn't reflect well on you either. That is not a political item, it is a factual one.

Your ability to defend your position has been compromised by your inability to understand the most basic things about power generation, let alone the BENEFIT bestowed upon society and those receiving redistributed tax revenue from oil and gas companies.

As far as semantic games about what is, or is not, a subsidy, that seems ridiculous, and flacaltenn has mentioned this as well, why do you complain about ANY business taking what is legally available, other than you have a hard on for a single type of industry taking advantage of the same legal benefit as other industries.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Since this is our very first interaction, I will be happy to explain it to you. What can I help you with?

Sure. Here is your comment, and flacaltenn's response that you avoided like the plague.

The fucked up part is that...in the end.....none of you even care where your power comes from. The opposition to green energy is PURELY POLITICAL in nature. You are compelled to fall in line and support the fossil fuel industry. You've been duped.

You got that part completely Bass-Ackwards.. The FRAUD is in the massive disinformation campaign to convince folks that there ARE ALTERNATIVES to where their electricity currently comes from.. Wind/Solar are SUPPLEMENTS, never were ALTERNATIVES. And they FAIL miserably to substitute for reliable, scheduled power delivery 24/7/365 which is what is DEMANDED in an advanced society..

It does not appear that the position is purely political at all. It appears to revolve around your misunderstanding of exactly how electrical generation works, at the practical level.

Your avoidance of who pays the most in terms of taxes doesn't reflect well on you either. That is not a political item, it is a factual one.

Your ability to defend your position has been compromised by your inability to understand the most basic things about power generation, let alone the BENEFIT bestowed upon society and those receiving redistributed tax revenue from oil and gas companies.

As far as semantic games about what is, or is not, a subsidy, that seems ridiculous, and flacaltenn has mentioned this as well, why do you complain about ANY business taking what is legally available, other than you have a hard on for a single type of industry taking advantage of the same legal benefit as other industries.

I do not agree with his comments. I missed the part where he provided supporting evidence. I could provide evidence that proves him wrong....BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.

 

[RGR]

I do not agree with his comments. I missed the part where he provided supporting evidence. I could provide evidence that proves him wrong....BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.

Sure. This thread is about your misconception about who receives subsidies, or perhaps even what they are. Certainly H has pointed out that he doesn't see anything coming back at him in actual oil and gas operations, having worked for an oil company for a decade I am not aware of any checks ever written to the company I worked for either. But I am aware of plenty where the company was forced to pay through the nose to support those who don't have the ability to generate a single $ of value in their entire lives, otherwise known as government employees.

I am also aware of MASSIVE subsides given to the windmill and PV folks, amounting to bunches of dollars.

You appear to not understand who actually receives subsidies in this country, and demonstrate this ignorance with the original question.

Wind turbines are popping up in more and more rural communities, yet wind turbines, like so many other “green energy” projects, represent a business that can’t stand on its own two feet without massive government involvement, from tax subsidies and tax credits to outright grants and the result is increasingly expensive electricity from locations with marginal wind.

What Really Powers Wind Turbines? Lots and Lots of Government Money

 

[soonerthunder22]

Wind and Solar energy is a pipe dream at the present time. We need to use energy that is a proven commodity, of which we have more than enough to fill our needs for at least the next 100 years. In the meantime other types of renewable energy can be perfected...as long as we don't have those ugly windmill farms all over the place.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Wind and Solar energy is a pipe dream at the present time. We need to use energy that is a proven commodity, of which we have more than enough to fill our needs for at least the next 100 years. In the meantime other types of renewable energy can be perfected...as long as we don't have those ugly windmill farms all over the place.

Sentence 1 is silly.

We are doing sentence 2. Not sure about the hundred years part. That is speculation on your part.

Sentence 3 is also being done. Proving that sentence 1 is silly......and leading to the question that I asked in the OP. You know....the one that you did not answer.

 

[Rotagilla]

You laid the claim. Pony up.

Sorry - YOU made the claim that oil and gas receive no subsidies.

And you might as well just wear a T-Shirt that says "I have no clue what I'm talking about."

Guess you missed the OP........ He made the claim they do, the onus is on him to prove it....... That's kinda the way it's supposed to work.......

You laid the claim. Pony up.

Sorry - YOU made the claim that oil and gas receive no subsidies.

And you might as well just wear a T-Shirt that says "I have no clue what I'm talking about."

After 37 years of pumping the shit out of the ground, I have yet to receive a subsidy in any form. No mailbox money for me. Ever. And I do know the difference between Agricultural subsidies and standard business expense deductions from taxable income.


Bitch

You're arguing with children. I doubt he even owns a home/has a mortgage.

Probably gets a tax REFUND every year. If he even works.

It's all "theory" and "other people's money" to him.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Sorry - YOU made the claim that oil and gas receive no subsidies.

And you might as well just wear a T-Shirt that says "I have no clue what I'm talking about."

Guess you missed the OP........ He made the claim they do, the onus is on him to prove it....... That's kinda the way it's supposed to work.......

Sorry - YOU made the claim that oil and gas receive no subsidies.

And you might as well just wear a T-Shirt that says "I have no clue what I'm talking about."

After 37 years of pumping the shit out of the ground, I have yet to receive a subsidy in any form. No mailbox money for me. Ever. And I do know the difference between Agricultural subsidies and standard business expense deductions from taxable income.


Bitch

You're arguing with children. I doubt he even owns a home/has a mortgage.

Probably gets a tax REFUND every year. If he even works.

It's all "theory" and "other people's money" to him.

Are you the same guy who just whined about being called a name in another thread? In fact, you have whined about being called names a few times already.

What gives?