White man shoots innocent black teen....

[The Gadfly]

See, we can have a civil discussion, when we all try to act like adults. What a surprise!

 

[Dick Tuck]

No - The boy caused his own death by attempting to kill Zimmerman & take his gun.

why did Zimmerman approach him with a gun ? how did the kid know he even had a gun ?

Zimmerman had his gun concealed. The gun became exposed as Zimmerman was trying to move away from Martin as Martin was pounding his head onto the sidewalk After Martin sucker punched him.

What are you omnipotent? How do you know he didn't flash the gun, and Trayvon felt threatened and needed to defend himself? Did he have a front holster?

What would you do if some dude started stalking you, and when you finally confront him, he flashes a gun, even if it's still holstered?

 

[Ravi]

since assault is an "unlawful act" by statute.

Not in Florida under the stand your ground defense. Stand your ground gives you permission to assault someone if you think that you are in danger or to recover stolen property, stop someone in the act of vandalism, burglary, etc.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Under Florida Law what would be considered an attack? That's another question. When does this become either party's responsibility?

From looking at your analysis (and I'll look for the analysis given by C_Clayton_Jones and then read the law for myself today while at work...) in most other states it's believable that Zimmerman would have been arrested, charged, and prosecuted on spot and would have had to then claim self-defense as an affirmative defense and prove that his defense meets the 4 criteria you listed above which would be an extremely hard task to accomplish, even though it can be done. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that assumption). However it looks like the law flipped the script, and there's nothing the prosecuter can do in this case, so the "special prosecuter" granted by the Governor has her hands tied as much as the local states attorney. Making this all one big idiotic free-for-all. It makes sense that reports are coming out that police were absolutely confused about how the law applied to the case, and why he was not taken into custody and charged. He should not have been, Florida Law pretty much forbids it.

In the 911 call Zimmerman says Martin ran and you can tell by the sounds in the video that statement is true.
You can hear the ding ding of key's in the ignition you can hear Zimmerman slam/ shut his vehicle door, you can hear the huffing and puffing of Zimmerman's Breath. Zimmerman also says he doesn't know where he is. Which would leave a normal person to believe Martin did run
Now Martin ran he should have kept going but he didn't but came back to where Zimmerman was and confronted him which made Martin the aggressor.

I don't think we can assume Zimmerman went back to his car. He might have kept looking, just not running. Could have kept following the general direction.

The "I don't know where this kid is" comment could be interpreted two ways.

One: He doesn't know where the kid is so he gave up.

Two: He's still actually looking for this kid.

We are both assuming if that's your argument. He was told he didn't need to follow Martin and acknowledged it by saying OK. If he didn't know the police were on the way you might have a point. But he knew they were in route and he did have an ambition to be a police officer and would do just about anything to look good to them.

The "I don't know where this kid is" comment could be interpreted two ways.

One: He doesn't know where the kid is so he gave up.

Two: He's still actually looking for this kid

And you are also assuming. I take it he meant what he said he did not know where Martin was but had stopped looking for him when that said he did not have to follow him.

 

[saveliberty]

I often retrace my steps when I lose things.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Your speculating AGAIN. Death by violence should be throughly investigated. Media should stay out of active investigations. Florida's law needs to be changed.

There's nothing wrong with the law.

Oh really? Then why can police be charged with excessive force? Most states still have reasonable actions law. The facts are far ans away against you on this subject, but flail around all you want.

You're assuming killing someone is excessive force. It depends if the law was followed or not.
Excessive force for police officers would be if they hit someone in the head with their PR 24. Or any force more than what was warranted would be excessive force

 

[saveliberty]

There's nothing wrong with the law.

Oh really? Then why can police be charged with excessive force? Most states still have reasonable actions law. The facts are far ans away against you on this subject, but flail around all you want.

You're assuming killing someone is excessive force. It depends if the law was followed or not.
Excessive force for police officers would be if they hit someone in the head with their PR 24. Or any force more than what was warranted would be excessive force

Okay, I'm game. Explain what is more excessive force than killing someone.

 

[koshergrl]

"I don't know where this kid is" sounded to me like he was concerned he was going to get jumped.

See it could mean a lot of different things.

 

[koshergrl]

Oh really? Then why can police be charged with excessive force? Most states still have reasonable actions law. The facts are far ans away against you on this subject, but flail around all you want.

You're assuming killing someone is excessive force. It depends if the law was followed or not.
Excessive force for police officers would be if they hit someone in the head with their PR 24. Or any force more than what was warranted would be excessive force

Okay, I'm game. Explain what is more excessive force than killing someone.

Excessive force isn't when you are being beaten by a drugged up kid who is trying to take your concealed weapon from it's holster, and you shoot the kid before he can shoot you.

Excessive force isn't shooting anyone who is sitting on top of you pounding your head on concrete.

Excessive force isn't shooting someone who tells you "You're going to die today" and then tries to kill you.

Of course that might not have happened...and of course it might have, too.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Oh really? Then why can police be charged with excessive force? Most states still have reasonable actions law. The facts are far ans away against you on this subject, but flail around all you want.

You're assuming killing someone is excessive force. It depends if the law was followed or not.
Excessive force for police officers would be if they hit someone in the head with their PR 24. Or any force more than what was warranted would be excessive force

Okay, I'm game. Explain what is more excessive force than killing someone.

If a police officer Lawfully kills someone that is not excessive force If a police office makes a lawful arrest but uses more than the force necessary to make the arrest that is excessive force. Here is the legal definition of Excessive force

Excessive force by a law enforcement officers is a violation of a person's rights. Excessive force is not subject to a precise definition, but it is generally beyond the force a reasonable and prudent law enforcement officer would use under the circumstances.

Force should be used in only the minimum amount needed to achieve a legitimate purpose. Police brutality is a direct violation of the laws within the police force. The use of excessive force is also a direct violation of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S Constitution regarding cruelty and protection of the laws.

Excessive Force Law & Legal Definition

Police department have training annually on use of force, department directives generally govern what the department considers excessive force.

 

[KissMy]

"I don't know where this kid is" sounded to me like he was concerned he was going to get jumped.

See it could mean a lot of different things.

Zimmerman was afraid to give 911 his address because he knew Martin was stalking him. Martin ran & hid in order to use gorilla tactics against Zimmerman & he knew it. It may be that Martin was headed back to Zimmerman's vehicle to steal it or jack him & arrived there at the same time Zimmerman did.

 

[koshergrl]

it's weird that you say that because that's one of the first things I thought when Zimmerman said the kid was staring him down, then coming towards him. He was in his car then, and I thought 'carjacking'.

And when Zimmerman got out and came towards him Martin ran...and to me, Zimmerman sounded scared.

Now this is just supposition on my part, it doesn't prove anything, I'm not a dolt like the people who say anything's been 'proven' based on the blurry video or any of the other silliness they imagine. But it's still possible.

And the picture I get of the neighborhood is a neighborhood under siege. I thought it was weird that nobody who heard the screaming would help the guy...and I think it's pretty obvious that everybody who lives there is terrified.

 

[koshergrl]

Also, if Zimmerman was such a scary, crazy dude..why hasn't anyone come forward to say that about him? Not a single neighbor has said anything negative about him to the press. That tells me he wasn't considered some sort of loon.

 

[saveliberty]

Interesting when koshergrl imagines something its fact and when another person speculates its just plain wrong.

 

[saveliberty]

Also, if Zimmerman was such a scary, crazy dude..why hasn't anyone come forward to say that about him? Not a single neighbor has said anything negative about him to the press. That tells me he wasn't considered some sort of loon.

Well, he does carry a gun and look what happened to the last guy...

 

[saveliberty]

You're assuming killing someone is excessive force. It depends if the law was followed or not.
Excessive force for police officers would be if they hit someone in the head with their PR 24. Or any force more than what was warranted would be excessive force

Okay, I'm game. Explain what is more excessive force than killing someone.

Excessive force isn't when you are being beaten by a drugged up kid who is trying to take your concealed weapon from it's holster, and you shoot the kid before he can shoot you.

Excessive force isn't shooting anyone who is sitting on top of you pounding your head on concrete.

Excessive force isn't shooting someone who tells you "You're going to die today" and then tries to kill you.

Of course that might not have happened...and of course it might have, too.

Congratulations, you managed to completely avoid the original question. I agree with the last statement for now.

 

[paperview]

iAlso, if Zimmerman was such a scary, crazy dude..why hasn't anyone come forward to say that about him? Not a single neighbor has said anything negative about him to the press. That tells me he wasn't considered some sort of loon.

Lot's of people have come out and said he was.

What you just wrote tells me you haven't read much about it.

 

[koshergrl]

Who?

Link it please.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

it's weird that you say that because that's one of the first things I thought when Zimmerman said the kid was staring him down, then coming towards him. He was in his car then, and I thought 'carjacking'.

And when Zimmerman got out and came towards him Martin ran...and to me, Zimmerman sounded scared.

Now this is just supposition on my part, it doesn't prove anything, I'm not a dolt like the people who say anything's been 'proven' based on the blurry video or any of the other silliness they imagine. But it's still possible.

And the picture I get of the neighborhood is a neighborhood under siege. I thought it was weird that nobody who heard the screaming would help the guy...and I think it's pretty obvious that everybody who lives there is terrified.

Some of what you post has been what I have tried to stress.

 

[saveliberty]

Who?

Link it please.

Try reading your own quoted source.