White man shoots innocent black teen....

[bigrebnc1775]

Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.

I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.

Emma,

Any number of factors could account for that. The witness statement says he saw Zimmerman on the ground, with Martin on top of him and kicking him. Now It's pretty hard to kick someone if you're punching him while kneeling over him; you'd have to stand up to do that. The witness lost sight of the two during the crucial last seconds before the shot- he ran inside to call police-how long did that take: ten seconds? Twenty? Thirty? we don't know, when he next saw the two, Martin had been shot and was on the ground.. Did Martin stand up? Did Zimmerman manage to push him hp, before the shot? Did Martin get to his feet, AFTER he was shot, before falling-that would be possible, even with a fatal wound from a 9mm, in my experience. We don't know any of that; no one saw it, (that we know of), except Zimmerman. As for the blood, there's not always a lot of immediate arterial blood spray or gushing, from a gunshot wound.

Now, after all that, the good news is that the autopsy findings will show the entry point and path of the bullet, and from that, it should be possible to reconstruct the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin, at the moment the shot was fired, which is what REALLY matters. All the rest of this of this questioning of where Martin's body hit the ground, where the blood was, and what that might imply, is useless speculation at this point. The autopsy and ballistic reconstruction will furnish the best evidence available.

actually you can be sitting on the ground and kick someone.

 

[Swagger]

Any indignant noise been made by the media over the white kid gunned down by three black guys on campus at Mississipi State University? So far as I can tell, this black-on-white murder is being treated as an "isolated incident".

Mississippi State president: Student's shooting believed 'isolated incident' - CNN

 

[Ravi]

Bullets drop bodies - if an instant kill, like to the heart - they don't knock them forward or backwards, unless there is already an imbalance in the position of the body at the time of death.

I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.

Emma,

Any number of factors could account for that. The witness statement says he saw Zimmerman on the ground, with Martin on top of him and kicking him. Now It's pretty hard to kick someone if you're punching him while kneeling over him; you'd have to stand up to do that. The witness lost sight of the two during the crucial last seconds before the shot- he ran inside to call police-how long did that take: ten seconds? Twenty? Thirty? we don't know, when he next saw the two, Martin had been shot and was on the ground.. Did Martin stand up? Did Zimmerman manage to push him hp, before the shot? Did Martin get to his feet, AFTER he was shot, before falling-that would be possible, even with a fatal wound from a 9mm, in my experience. We don't know any of that; no one saw it, (that we know of), except Zimmerman. As for the blood, there's not always a lot of immediate arterial blood spray or gushing, from a gunshot wound.

Now, after all that, the good news is that the autopsy findings will show the entry point and path of the bullet, and from that, it should be possible to reconstruct the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin, at the moment the shot was fired, which is what REALLY matters. All the rest of this of this questioning of where Martin's body hit the ground, where the blood was, and what that might imply, is useless speculation at this point. The autopsy and ballistic reconstruction will furnish the best evidence available.

You're still making up facts. There has been no published witness statement saying Martin was kicking Zimmerman.

 

[koshergrl]

You can't make up a fact, ravi.

Though I have to give you credit for trying!

 

[GUNSIDEAUG]

Maybe George Zimmerman did act in self-defense when he shot and killed Trayvon Martin, whose death Feb. 26 in Sanford, Florida, has been the focus of a media and political circus that even included Barack Obama weighing in this week.

An eyewitness to the incident told police Martin was beating Zimmerman before he shot him.

Zimmerman had called 911 to report the suspicious activities of a youth in his neighborhood, telling the dispatcher that he was following Martin.

On the recording of another 911 call, repeated cries of “help” can be heard before the gunshot.

The witness, identified only as John, says those cries were made by Zimmerman who was on the ground being beaten by Martin.

“The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help … and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,” he said.

Martin was wearing a gray hoodie, while Zimmerman was wearing red.

“When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” John said.

Zimmerman claimed the shooting was self-defense. Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

Meanwhile, the attack has been portrayed by most media outlets as a racist, vigilante-style assault by Zimmerman – a half-Hispanic, half-white, self-style neighborhood crime-watch captain – on an innocent role-model black teen-ager carrying only a cell phone and some Skittles

 

[koshergrl]

You need to reference your sources. Link it or you're going to get zapped.

 

[The Gadfly]

If that were his statement to the cops that night, and taking into consideration other witnesses and his wounds, and the law, yes, it would explain it.

Still, there is a lot we don't know.

It will be interesting if the newly assigned states attorney reaches the same conclusion.

It would also be interesting to know that if all this is true, why didn't the police say so to begin with? Especially before the police chief stepped down. Just not making sense.

It might make sense if the police didn't expect all this national uproar. They usually keep their cards close to their chests.

My first thought when I read that from the Sentinal is that they are reporting it to try to diffuse the public anger, which is just as irresponsible as reporting to the public anger, IMO.

The press needs to just report the facts, when they report. The can editorialize in an editorial.

The thing is, we are relying on a PARTIAL police report (the basic incident report) NOT on the complete investigation file ( which is now in the hands of the State's Attorney and other investigators (FDLE, FBI). WE don't have any transcript of police interviews with Zimmerman, we don't have the complete sworn statements of witnesses to the police; all we've got, is speculation, and incomplete facts which have leaked out, (intentionally or otherwise). The police may have information that IS conclusive; they may have had that information weeks ago. We don't know any of that; all we really have is what's been reported in the media (much of it speculation, and/or shown by the limited facts we do have to be inaccurate or misleading). There's nothing in what we have to build a case on, except emotions. Let's let the authorities do their job, and wait for the investigation (or review of the original investigation) conclude, before we go drawing unwarranted conclusions from incomplete facts.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.

Emma,

Any number of factors could account for that. The witness statement says he saw Zimmerman on the ground, with Martin on top of him and kicking him. Now It's pretty hard to kick someone if you're punching him while kneeling over him; you'd have to stand up to do that. The witness lost sight of the two during the crucial last seconds before the shot- he ran inside to call police-how long did that take: ten seconds? Twenty? Thirty? we don't know, when he next saw the two, Martin had been shot and was on the ground.. Did Martin stand up? Did Zimmerman manage to push him hp, before the shot? Did Martin get to his feet, AFTER he was shot, before falling-that would be possible, even with a fatal wound from a 9mm, in my experience. We don't know any of that; no one saw it, (that we know of), except Zimmerman. As for the blood, there's not always a lot of immediate arterial blood spray or gushing, from a gunshot wound.

Now, after all that, the good news is that the autopsy findings will show the entry point and path of the bullet, and from that, it should be possible to reconstruct the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin, at the moment the shot was fired, which is what REALLY matters. All the rest of this of this questioning of where Martin's body hit the ground, where the blood was, and what that might imply, is useless speculation at this point. The autopsy and ballistic reconstruction will furnish the best evidence available.

You're still making up facts. There has been no published witness statement saying Martin was kicking Zimmerman.

Facts are this A kid was killed who was suspended from school, who should have not been allowed to walk the streets as if he was on vacation. If his father had been a father he would have had his son trayvon at home grounded for being suspended, instead of walking the streets at night.

 

[saveliberty]

I don't give a damn what it echos. You have a permit to carry a firearm but you can't carry it while walking your neighborhood? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Its simple bigreb, you want to be on neighborhood watch? Don't carry the gun. You want to carry your gun? Don't be on nieghborhood watch.

Oh so you're at take your evening walk but you can't doing with a gun? Permit gives him the right according to Fl. state law to conceal carry his firearm in public.

Personal evening walk, sure knock yourself out with the gun thingy. Neighborhood watch program does not condone carrying a weapon on patrol period. That should be clear.

 

[Foxfyre]

And in the spirit of presumed innocence until proven guilty. . . .

Seminole State College will expel Trayvon Martin's avowed shooter, George Zimmerman, due to what they term the "high-profile controversy" surrounding his role in the 17-year-old's death.

Zimmerman has been an on-and-off student at the college since 2003. As of 2009, he was working towards an Associate in Arts degree.
Trayvon Martin Shooting: George Zimmerman Kicked Out Of Seminole State College

The fact is none of us yet know exactly what did happen. It may be that Zimmerman is the evil bully that the leftwing media is attempting to paint him, but they don't know yet. But it isn't stopping them from trying to inflame public opinion against Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman is guilty of premeditated murder or manslaughter, he should experience the full force of the law brought to bear against him.

But until then, being tried the the court of public opinion is just wrong.

 

[koshergrl]

Exactly.

And wasn't it nighttime?

One of the biggest struggles I have had with my 14 y.o. (he recently came to live with us) was shutting him down at night. He wanted to bop in and out of the house, run all over the place, at night, usually firing up right around 8 pm...

I shut it down but it was HARD to do and he was very resistant. He is used to living with drunks, and 8 pm is the witching hour..that's when they start feeling good and ramping up. 9:30 the adults are usually well on their way to obliteration (if they're even still in the house) and are, themselves, doing things like hanging out in the yard, cooking burgers, making beer runs...

People need to really start sitting on their kids. This kid shouldn't be dead, I think everybody agrees about that. And ultimately, he wouldn't be dead..if he had been grounded, at home, in his room, where he BELONGED after getting suspended.

 

[saveliberty]

Normally, I'd agree Foxfyre. In this case Zimmerman wasn't even going to be charged. Public opinion brought needed review to the case in my opinion.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Its simple bigreb, you want to be on neighborhood watch? Don't carry the gun. You want to carry your gun? Don't be on nieghborhood watch.

Oh so you're at take your evening walk but you can't doing with a gun? Permit gives him the right according to Fl. state law to conceal carry his firearm in public.

Personal evening walk, sure knock yourself out with the gun thingy. Neighborhood watch program does not condone carrying a weapon on patrol period. That should be clear.

You're taking your evening walk with your firearm you see a break in happening but you don't say a word and keep walking because you are carrying?

 

[saveliberty]

Exactly.

And wasn't it nighttime?

One of the biggest struggles I have had with my 14 y.o. (he recently came to live with us) was shutting him down at night. He wanted to bop in and out of the house, run all over the place, at night, usually firing up right around 8 pm...

I shut it down but it was HARD to do and he was very resistant. He is used to living with drunks, and 8 pm is the witching hour..that's when they start feeling good and ramping up. 9:30 the adults are usually well on their way to obliteration (if they're even still in the house) and are, themselves, doing things like hanging out in the yard, cooking burgers, making beer runs...

People need to really start sitting on their kids. This kid shouldn't be dead, I think everybody agrees about that. And ultimately, he wouldn't be dead..if he had been grounded, at home, in his room, where he BELONGED after getting suspended.

Blame the victim? How do you know running to the store for other people's wants wasn't a punishment?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Exactly.

And wasn't it nighttime?

One of the biggest struggles I have had with my 14 y.o. (he recently came to live with us) was shutting him down at night. He wanted to bop in and out of the house, run all over the place, at night, usually firing up right around 8 pm...

I shut it down but it was HARD to do and he was very resistant. He is used to living with drunks, and 8 pm is the witching hour..that's when they start feeling good and ramping up. 9:30 the adults are usually well on their way to obliteration (if they're even still in the house) and are, themselves, doing things like hanging out in the yard, cooking burgers, making beer runs...

People need to really start sitting on their kids. This kid shouldn't be dead, I think everybody agrees about that. And ultimately, he wouldn't be dead..if he had been grounded, at home, in his room, where he BELONGED after getting suspended.

I blame his father for the most part.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Exactly.

And wasn't it nighttime?

One of the biggest struggles I have had with my 14 y.o. (he recently came to live with us) was shutting him down at night. He wanted to bop in and out of the house, run all over the place, at night, usually firing up right around 8 pm...

I shut it down but it was HARD to do and he was very resistant. He is used to living with drunks, and 8 pm is the witching hour..that's when they start feeling good and ramping up. 9:30 the adults are usually well on their way to obliteration (if they're even still in the house) and are, themselves, doing things like hanging out in the yard, cooking burgers, making beer runs...

People need to really start sitting on their kids. This kid shouldn't be dead, I think everybody agrees about that. And ultimately, he wouldn't be dead..if he had been grounded, at home, in his room, where he BELONGED after getting suspended.

Blame the victim? How do you know running to the store for other people's wants wasn't a punishment?

Being grounded means you stay home you do not leave the house.

 

[The Gadfly]

I do have a problem with the position Martin's body was found if, as we are led to believe, he was shot while he was on top beating the snot out of Zimmerman. And that there was no mention by the officer of blood on Zimmerman other than from his nose and back of the head.

Emma,

Any number of factors could account for that. The witness statement says he saw Zimmerman on the ground, with Martin on top of him and kicking him. Now It's pretty hard to kick someone if you're punching him while kneeling over him; you'd have to stand up to do that. The witness lost sight of the two during the crucial last seconds before the shot- he ran inside to call police-how long did that take: ten seconds? Twenty? Thirty? we don't know, when he next saw the two, Martin had been shot and was on the ground.. Did Martin stand up? Did Zimmerman manage to push him hp, before the shot? Did Martin get to his feet, AFTER he was shot, before falling-that would be possible, even with a fatal wound from a 9mm, in my experience. We don't know any of that; no one saw it, (that we know of), except Zimmerman. As for the blood, there's not always a lot of immediate arterial blood spray or gushing, from a gunshot wound.

Now, after all that, the good news is that the autopsy findings will show the entry point and path of the bullet, and from that, it should be possible to reconstruct the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin, at the moment the shot was fired, which is what REALLY matters. All the rest of this of this questioning of where Martin's body hit the ground, where the blood was, and what that might imply, is useless speculation at this point. The autopsy and ballistic reconstruction will furnish the best evidence available.

You're still making up facts. There has been no published witness statement saying Martin was kicking Zimmerman.

You missed the entire point again. The essential facts here are that , so far as we know, NO WITNESS saw the final few seconds leading up to the gunshot. Therefore, the only REAL AND IMPARTIAL evidence of the relative positions of Zimmerman and Martin AT THE MOMENT THE SHOT WAS FIRED HAS TO COME FROM THE AUTOPSY, AND SUBSEQUENT RECONSTRUCTION OF THE PATH OF THE BULLET. THAT'S IT. END OF STORY.

 

[Truthmatters]

Nope the momment is when Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.

If Trayvon felt threatened under this stupid florida law he had a right to protect himself just like the right claims Zimmerman did.

Who was stalking whom that night?


That is your answer.
If Trayvon did ANYTHING at all to Zimmerman than he was merely protecting himself.

 

[koshergrl]

I predict Ravi will continue to miss the point, and will also continue to substitute imaginary vapidisms for anything like intelligent discussion.

That's what my crystal ball tells me.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Nope the momment is when Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.

If Trayvon felt threatened under this stupid florida law he had a right to protect himself just like the right claims Zimmerman did.

Who was stalking whom that night?


That is your answer.
If Trayvon did ANYTHING at all to Zimmerman than he was merely protecting himself.

There are reports that Zimmerman had started too return to his vehicle when Martin jumped Zimmerman.