White man shoots innocent black teen....

[Foxfyre]

Oh and thanks for posting the link to the Police Report Si Modo. It is shown as a partial report, of course, and doesn't include statements from the witnesses shown. We'll probably get that later on; maybe after the Grand Jury investigation.

Based on the very little that we know so far, however, I suspect that Zimmerman will be judged to have acted in self defense and no charges will be filed. But because of the racist faux outrage that will nevertheless continue unabated, he will most likely have to move and hope he can re-establish some semblance of a normal life somewhere else.

And if it is determined that he is as guilty as some presume to already judge him, well so be it. I hope justice will be done in that case too.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I don't really know what parents go through raising teens these days, but I do know a lot of them do fear for the safety and welfare of their kids these days. But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.

In my days as a teenager or that of my kids, a 17-year-old was treated mostly as an adult with expectations that he/she exercise more adult responsibility. They would be eligible for the draft in one more year, eligible to buy 3/2 beer (in Kansas), and would be going off to college inside of a year. In my generation and especially the generation immediately preceding mine, a 17 year old, especially a female, was considered old enough to get married and have children. My oldest sister-in-law had two kids by the time she was 17 and two more by the time she was 20; raised them competently, and she and her hushand had been married for more than 55 years when she finally succumbed to cancer not long ago. At age 17, I was practically emancipated.

Certainly my kids were driving themselves to school at age 17, were out having fun at night with their friends many evenings, especially on weekends, and while I worried they might be tempted with liquor or other drugs, I never feared that they would be shot on the streets. Certainly not in a nicer gated community. That kind of violence has been something that has developed over just the last couple of decades in most places.

Few kids committing serious crimes at Age 17 are treated as juveniles. Most are tried as adults. And again, I don't know who started the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman or exactly what happened, but a violent 17-year old is every bit as capable of inflicting serious injury as any adult.

But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.

Trayvon was a kid suspended from school he was living under the roof of his parents home, A parent that has a child that was suspended but allowed to come and go as you please is not being a good parent. At least in my opinion.

 

[Amelia]

Television game break? Do you know the concept of what being grounded is? No leaving the house no TV no friends no phone calls

I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is. I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.

A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.

The boy as you put it was suspended from school he should have been punished for that any good father would at least ground their child as punishment. And if he is being punished he should not have been allowed to go to the 7/11. He should not have jumped the fence in the gated community,m he should have not hit Zimmerman when Zimmerman was walking away.

Link?


You're still being ridiculous in your armchair parenting. However, you are bringing a new-to-me element into this picture.

Is it your contention that the home where Trayvon was visiting was not part of the gated community?

 

[Si modo]

I don't really know what parents go through raising teens these days, but I do know a lot of them do fear for the safety and welfare of their kids these days. But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.

In my days as a teenager or that of my kids, a 17-year-old was treated mostly as an adult with expectations that he/she exercise more adult responsibility. They would be eligible for the draft in one more year, eligible to buy 3/2 beer (in Kansas), and would be going off to college inside of a year. In my generation and especially the generation immediately preceding mine, a 17 year old, especially a female, was considered old enough to get married and have children. My oldest sister-in-law had two kids by the time she was 17 and two more by the time she was 20; raised them competently, and she and her hushand had been married for more than 55 years when she finally succumbed to cancer not long ago. At age 17, I was practically emancipated.

Certainly my kids were driving themselves to school at age 17, were out having fun at night with their friends many evenings, especially on weekends, and while I worried they might be tempted with liquor or other drugs, I never feared that they would be shot on the streets. Certainly not in a nicer gated community. That kind of violence has been something that has developed over just the last couple of decades in most places.

Few kids committing serious crimes at Age 17 are treated as juveniles. Most are tried as adults. And again, I don't know who started the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman or exactly what happened, but a violent 17-year old is every bit as capable of inflicting serious injury as any adult.

But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.

Trayvon was a kid suspended from school he was living under the roof of his parents home, A parent that has a child that was suspended but allowed to come and go as you please is not being a good parent. At least in my opinion.

Trayvon was with his father visiting his father's fiancee who lived in that community.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't really know what parents go through raising teens these days, but I do know a lot of them do fear for the safety and welfare of their kids these days. But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.

In my days as a teenager or that of my kids, a 17-year-old was treated mostly as an adult with expectations that he/she exercise more adult responsibility. They would be eligible for the draft in one more year, eligible to buy 3/2 beer (in Kansas), and would be going off to college inside of a year. In my generation and especially the generation immediately preceding mine, a 17 year old, especially a female, was considered old enough to get married and have children. My oldest sister-in-law had two kids by the time she was 17 and two more by the time she was 20; raised them competently, and she and her hushand had been married for more than 55 years when she finally succumbed to cancer not long ago. At age 17, I was practically emancipated.

Certainly my kids were driving themselves to school at age 17, were out having fun at night with their friends many evenings, especially on weekends, and while I worried they might be tempted with liquor or other drugs, I never feared that they would be shot on the streets. Certainly not in a nicer gated community. That kind of violence has been something that has developed over just the last couple of decades in most places.

Few kids committing serious crimes at Age 17 are treated as juveniles. Most are tried as adults. And again, I don't know who started the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman or exactly what happened, but a violent 17-year old is every bit as capable of inflicting serious injury as any adult.

But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.

Trayvon was a kid suspended from school he was living under the roof of his parents home, A parent that has a child that was suspended but allowed to come and go as you please is not being a good parent. At least in my opinion.

But that is a separate issue. If Trayvon had NOT been suspended and had been visiting his girlfriend with his parent's permission, the tragic incident could still have occurred as it did. I am not blaming Tayvon's parents for allowing him to be in danger. That's all I'm saying. Did you never sneak out of the house when grounded? I did. Never got caught either, or if the parents knew they let it slide. And I turned out to be practically a functioning adult.

 

[Si modo]

I don't really know what parents go through raising teens these days, but I do know a lot of them do fear for the safety and welfare of their kids these days. But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.

In my days as a teenager or that of my kids, a 17-year-old was treated mostly as an adult with expectations that he/she exercise more adult responsibility. They would be eligible for the draft in one more year, eligible to buy 3/2 beer (in Kansas), and would be going off to college inside of a year. In my generation and especially the generation immediately preceding mine, a 17 year old, especially a female, was considered old enough to get married and have children. My oldest sister-in-law had two kids by the time she was 17 and two more by the time she was 20; raised them competently, and she and her hushand had been married for more than 55 years when she finally succumbed to cancer not long ago. At age 17, I was practically emancipated.

Certainly my kids were driving themselves to school at age 17, were out having fun at night with their friends many evenings, especially on weekends, and while I worried they might be tempted with liquor or other drugs, I never feared that they would be shot on the streets. Certainly not in a nicer gated community. That kind of violence has been something that has developed over just the last couple of decades in most places.

Few kids committing serious crimes at Age 17 are treated as juveniles. Most are tried as adults. And again, I don't know who started the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman or exactly what happened, but a violent 17-year old is every bit as capable of inflicting serious injury as any adult.

But I won't blame or accuse Martin's parents for allowing him to be out at Age 17.

Trayvon was a kid suspended from school he was living under the roof of his parents home, A parent that has a child that was suspended but allowed to come and go as you please is not being a good parent. At least in my opinion.

But that is a separate issue. If Trayvon had NOT been suspended and had been visiting his girlfriend with his parent's permission, the tragic incident could still have occurred as it did. I am not blaming Tayvon's parents for allowing him to be in danger. That's all I'm saying. Did you never sneak out of the house when grounded? I did. Never got caught either, or if the parents knew they let it slide. And I turned out to be practically a functioning adult.

Trayvon was with his father and his father was visiting HIS fiancee who lived there.

Trayvon called his girlfriend just before the shooting to tell her that someone was following him.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is. I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.

A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.

The boy as you put it was suspended from school he should have been punished for that any good father would at least ground their child as punishment. And if he is being punished he should not have been allowed to go to the 7/11. He should not have jumped the fence in the gated community,m he should have not hit Zimmerman when Zimmerman was walking away.

Link?


You're still being ridiculous in your armchair parenting. However, you are bringing a new-to-me element into this picture.

Is it your contention that the home where Trayvon was visiting was not part of the gated community?

First thing I detract the part about jumping the fence, I can no longer find any reference to the event happening. But I don't think that was the community trayvon lived in.

Secondly anyone who has been a parent knows from experience and can be an armchair parent.

3 I did find this as for the reason of his suspension

Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

 

[Toro]

One of my best friends grew up in Sanford. His family has been there for generations. His father was on the city council. His grandfather was a successful businessman. He is also very much an opponent of Bush and conservatives, so he isn't your typical Republican.

He, his father and a few others sat down over the weekend for over two hours with a NY Times reporter in a Sanford restaurant. What you have been hearing and seeing in the press is, according to him, a gross distortion of what has happened in Sanford. I just had lunch with him. This is some of what he told me. I'll add some more later.

Zimmerman was clearly over the top. He was one of these guys who fancied himself a policeman but who wasn't. The police instruct neighborhood watch volunteers to report suspects, not chase after them. He did not listen to the dispatcher who told him to not follow. Zimmerman had been a resident if the area for only a few years.

Jackson was something like 6'3". He was from Miami visiting his girlfriend. He had been suspended from school for nonviolent reasons.

The Sanford police appear to not have done much wrong, given the timeline of what they knew and when they knew it. They were at the scene of the crime from 8pm to 3am. But it's a small police force that often doesn't deal with this. The police chief had been there for only 10 months and was brought in to make the force more professional. He stepped down due to political pressure.

The main complaint of the black community towards the police is not white on black crime but black on black crime. The demonstrations in Sanford are mostly people who are bussed in. They aren't locals. The black leaders such as Jackson and Sharpton are demagoguing the issue.

There had been 300 reports to the police of potential incidents in the gated community. The community is primarily condos in an industrial part of town by the Interstate. The community opened in 2007. Condos that sold for $250k back then are being sold for $80k now. Sanford Housing shut down all the projects in 2010, and residents have moved elsewhere, including this community.

More later.

who is Jackson?

Sorry. Martin.

 

[The Gadfly]

Apparently the Police Report shows that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of his head and nose when they got there. Wish we could access that report on line.

When I read something like that it really angers me at the father. If his father cared about Trayvon, he would not have allowed him to roam the streets at night. He would have been grounded for being suspended and not walking the streets at night. The father is as much to blame as anyone.

I would imagine the father is blaming himself a lot, even though he has no reason to do so.

How very sad for him that some blame him.

Yes it is sad, Si, but this thing is no longer about a tragedy; it's no longer about the pursuit of the truth, or justice; this is now about political and racial hatred and vengeance, about selling airtime and newspapers, and yes, even about election year politics, and to that end, it matters not how much irresponsible speculation there is, how many lies, half-truth and innuendos are presented as "facts"; it matters not who gets hurt, or even killed; it matters not, what the law is. The fanatics on both sides no longer care about either Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman, or their families; this is now about "winning" at any cost, and the devil take the hindmost. The "cause" has now overwhelmed and overshadowed the initial tragic incident from which it began, it's taken on a life of its own; a dark, poisonous, ugly, evil life, urging Americans to take a side, and spin up whatever lurid bits of dirt they can find, or even just imagine, to discredit the other; to paint Martin as a criminal, or Zimmerman as a racist killer; it's gone past any pretense of a search for the truth, into a disgusting attempt to rationalize the prejudice and hate that exists on both sides. Trayvon Martin is dead, but one side wants to demonize him and make him the symbol of everything they despise, and fear; George Zimmerman, isn't dead (yet) but the other side wants to demonize him, and make him into the symbol of everything they despise, and fear. That either was or is a human being doesn't matter anymore. The media stir the bubbling pot of rumors and allegations, and we the people greedily lap up every drop and dollop of the poisonous racially-charges swill that slops out of it, and regurgitate it everywhere. No matter which side "wins", the recriminations and counter recriminations will go on, and on, and on, until at best, the end result will be less understanding and more racial hatred than we had before, and at worst, even more blood will be spilled.

 

[koshergrl]

Walking to a 7-11 during a television game break isn't "roaming the streets". It was a family night.

Television game break? Do you know the concept of what being grounded is? No leaving the house no TV no friends no phone calls

I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is. I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.

A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.

If that's what happened.

However, at night, freaks tend to be out, and this kid either was one himself, or he fell victim to one. At any rate, kids with behavioral problems who have been suspended from school should not be out roaming the streets at night. Kids shouldn't be roaming around at night regardless. Someone dropped the ball and now this kid is dead. I wouldn't want to be the person who dropped it.

 

[Si modo]

Television game break? Do you know the concept of what being grounded is? No leaving the house no TV no friends no phone calls

I don't care what your idea of being "grounded" is. I don't care that YOU think Trayvon should have be grounded.

A boy should be able to walk to a 7-11 and back without being targeted by a freak with a gun.

If that's what happened.

However, at night, freaks tend to be out, and this kid either was one himself, or he fell victim to one. At any rate, kids with behavioral problems who have been suspended from school should not be out roaming the streets at night. Kids shouldn't be roaming around at night regardless. Someone dropped the ball and now this kid is dead. I wouldn't want to be the person who dropped it.

The shooting happened on or about 19:15 on 2/26/2012. 7ish on a Sunday night.

Yeah, lots of "freaks" out at that time.

 

[Foxfyre]

Trayvon was a kid suspended from school he was living under the roof of his parents home, A parent that has a child that was suspended but allowed to come and go as you please is not being a good parent. At least in my opinion.

But that is a separate issue. If Trayvon had NOT been suspended and had been visiting his girlfriend with his parent's permission, the tragic incident could still have occurred as it did. I am not blaming Tayvon's parents for allowing him to be in danger. That's all I'm saying. Did you never sneak out of the house when grounded? I did. Never got caught either, or if the parents knew they let it slide. And I turned out to be practically a functioning adult.

Trayvon was with his father and his father was visiting HIS fiancee who lived there.

Trayvon called his girlfriend just before the shooting to tell her that someone was following him.

Ah, I hadn't seen this, and it does give even a different perspective doesn't it. But to be near where his father was visiting a friend and to be out walking in a residential gated neighborhood at Age 17 doesn't really sound like bad parenting to me.

 

[Peach]

The boy as you put it was suspended from school he should have been punished for that any good father would at least ground their child as punishment. And if he is being punished he should not have been allowed to go to the 7/11. He should not have jumped the fence in the gated community,m he should have not hit Zimmerman when Zimmerman was walking away.

Link?


You're still being ridiculous in your armchair parenting. However, you are bringing a new-to-me element into this picture.

Is it your contention that the home where Trayvon was visiting was not part of the gated community?

First thing I detract the part about jumping the fence, I can no longer find any reference to the event happening. But I don't think that was the community trayvon lived in.

Secondly anyone who has been a parent knows from experience and can be an armchair parent.

3 I did find this as for the reason of his suspension

Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

Yes, AP has a big headline about THIS also.......................................

 

[Si modo]

But that is a separate issue. If Trayvon had NOT been suspended and had been visiting his girlfriend with his parent's permission, the tragic incident could still have occurred as it did. I am not blaming Tayvon's parents for allowing him to be in danger. That's all I'm saying. Did you never sneak out of the house when grounded? I did. Never got caught either, or if the parents knew they let it slide. And I turned out to be practically a functioning adult.

Trayvon was with his father and his father was visiting HIS fiancee who lived there.

Trayvon called his girlfriend just before the shooting to tell her that someone was following him.

Ah, I hadn't seen this, and it does give even a different perspective doesn't it. But to be near where his father was visiting a friend and to be out walking in a residential gated neighborhood at Age 17 doesn't really sound like bad parenting to me.

Right, me neither. Martin was shot around 7 PM, too. So, it wasn't like it was the wee hours of the night when creeps are out and about.

It's quite normal for a kid to run to the 7/11 at that hour. Especially considering a 17 yo boy is with his father at his father's fiancee's house. Most teens hate a parent's SO if it's not their other parent. (Personal experience with that.) So, maybe he was hating every minute of that visit and he needed to take a break and the father said he could run to the 7/11.

I cannot put an ounce of blame on his father. It makes me a bit ill to even think of doing so.

The father is a Little League coach and says that Trayvon helps him with his coaching quite often. Sounds like a great relationship between the two - doing volunteer work together, and all.

 

[saveliberty]

Zimmerman is all over calling 911 at the drop of a candy wrapper. He doesn't call to report Martin approaching him (remember Zimmerman is following Martin)? He doesn't pull his gun until after Martin hits him? None of this passes the reasonable test.

 

[Si modo]

Zimmerman is all over calling 911 at the drop of a candy wrapper. He doesn't call to report Martin approaching him (remember Zimmerman is following Martin)? He doesn't pull his gun until after Martin hits him? None of this passes the reasonable test.

Why? I wouldn't waste my time calling 911 again when someone was hitting me, either. I already know the cops are on their way because 911 said they were.

 

[Katzndogz]

What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.

OH but yes what he was suspended for is very relevant. Was he suspended for fighting, stealing, trouble maker? It would show cause that Martin was a trouble maker and was looking for a fight.

He was a pothead and that's why he was suspended.

SANFORD, Fla -- . Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school because he was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boy’s family attorney has confirmed.

Trayvon was killed while serving out the suspension in Sanford Florida, where his father’s girlfriend lives. A community watch volunteer who thought he looked drugged out and suspicious called police and later wound up in a fight with him

Read more here: Trayvon suspended over marijuana; thousands expected at rally - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Zimmerman is all over calling 911 at the drop of a candy wrapper. He doesn't call to report Martin approaching him (remember Zimmerman is following Martin)? He doesn't pull his gun until after Martin hits him? None of this passes the reasonable test.

CCW carriers are trained only to pull your firearm when you have the intent to use it.

 

[uptownlivin90]

What he was suspended for any for how many days is not more relevant to the case than whether or not Zimmerman was on duty as a Neighborhood Watch captain. Martin could have been the sweetiest angel on the planet but if he started the fight with Zimmerman, then it's self-defense on Zimmerman's part.

OH but yes what he was suspended for is very relevant. Was he suspended for fighting, stealing, trouble maker? It would show cause that Martin was a trouble maker and was looking for a fight.

He was a pothead and that's why he was suspended.
SANFORD, Fla -- . Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school because he was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boy’s family attorney has confirmed.

Trayvon was killed while serving out the suspension in Sanford Florida, where his father’s girlfriend lives. A community watch volunteer who thought he looked drugged out and suspicious called police and later wound up in a fight with him

Read more here: Trayvon suspended over marijuana; thousands expected at rally - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

He was not suspended because he was a pothead.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So no one thinks that the "New Black Panther Party" should be investigated and charged with conspiracy to commit murder for offering $10.000 reward Dead or Alive?