Who are the Israelis?

[Grau]

If only you honestly quoted from that hasbara book. Page describes styles of conversation and point scoring is one method, used in particular situations. Another method mentioned is "genuine debate." I notice you ignored that.

What makes apologists for Israel's Right Wing criminality so snarky and evasive?

Is it because they can't refute facts about Israel's provocative "Settlements" policy that prove that this Israeli government prefers conflict as a means to steal more land?

Or...

Is it because of the embarrassing fact that almost half of Israel's Jews support ethnic cleansing? (so much for the "lessons of the Holocaust")

I also stated the fact that IDF aids and abets Israel's hate filled Settlers on their criminal and murderous rampages and uses captive Palestinians for weapons experimentation but you ignored those inconvenient facts.

Instead of trying to refute the irrefutable, you accuse me of misrepresenting the content of of the infamous "Hasbara Handbook" when I wrote:

EXCERPT "It is a fact that Israel's Right Wing government funds an army of paid, trained and scripted Hasbara trolls.
On page 8 of their Hasbara Handbook they are instructed to: "...give the appearance of rational debate, whilst avoiding genuine discussion." (1)" CONTINUED
First of all, Israel is the only country in the world with a US Funded multi $ Million / Billion propaganda ministry that pays, trains and scripts angry Zionists to revile anyone supporting International Law and basic Human Rights as "anti Semites", "neo Nazis", "Jew haters" etc.

The US funded Israeli government pays, trains and writes scripts for hundreds of thousands (2) of angry Zionist trolls to censor anything Israel's Right Wing extremist government doesn't want seen in Wikipedia(3) or anywhere else.

So, if you think that you're just being insulted and lied to by a single Zionist troll at home, you're really dealing with a large room full of angry, connected Hasbara trolls who are paid to try to improve Israel's dismal image all day long.

Finally, if I were trying to deceive anyone about the content of the Hasbara Handbook, I wouldn't have included easy access to the entire document. (1)


(1) "Hasbara Handbook
https://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf


(2). How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet"

How Israel and its partisans work to censor the Internet

Recently, YouTube suddenly shut down the If Americans Knew YouTube channel. This contained 70 videos providing facts-based information about Israel-Palestine. People going to the channel saw a message telling them that the site had been terminated for “violating YouTube guidelines”—implying to...

www.unz.com

EXCERPT "Another project to do battle on the Internet was initiated in 2011 by the 300,000-strong National Union of Israeli Students (NUIS). The goal was “to deepen and expand hasbara [state propaganda] activities of students in the State of Israel.”

Under this program, Israeli students are paid $2,000 to work five hours per week to “lead the battle against hostile websites.” CONTINUED


(3). "Wikipedia Editing Courses Launched by Zionist Propaganda Machine"

 

[rosends]

What makes apologists for Israel's Right Wing criminality so snarky and evasive?

Is it because they can't refute facts about Israel's provocative "Settlements" policy that prove that this Israeli government prefers conflict as a means to steal more land?

Or...

Is it because of the embarrassing fact that almost half of Israel's Jews support ethnic cleansing? (so much for the "lessons of the Holocaust")

I also stated the fact that IDF aids and abets Israel's hate filled Settlers on their criminal and murderous rampages and uses captive Palestinians for weapons experimentation but you ignored those inconvenient facts.

Instead of trying to refute the irrefutable, you accuse me of misrepresenting the content of of the infamous "Hasbara Handbook" when I wrote:

EXCERPT "It is a fact that Israel's Right Wing government funds an army of paid, trained and scripted Hasbara trolls.
On page 8 of their Hasbara Handbook they are instructed to: "...give the appearance of rational debate, whilst avoiding genuine discussion." (1)" CONTINUED
First of all, Israel is the only country in the world with a US Funded multi $ Million / Billion propaganda ministry that pays, trains and scripts angry Zionists to revile anyone supporting International Law and basic Human Rights as "anti Semites", "neo Nazis", "Jew haters" etc.

The US funded Israeli government pays, trains and writes scripts for hundreds of thousands (2) of angry Zionist trolls to censor anything Israel's Right Wing extremist government doesn't want seen in Wikipedia(3) or anywhere else.

So, if you think that you're just being insulted and lied to by a single Zionist troll at home, you're really dealing with a large room full of angry, connected Hasbara trolls who are paid to try to improve Israel's dismal image all day long.

Finally, if I were trying to deceive anyone about the content of the Hasbara Handbook, I wouldn't have included easy access to the entire document. (1)


(1) "Hasbara Handbook
https://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf


(2). How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet"

How Israel and its partisans work to censor the Internet

Recently, YouTube suddenly shut down the If Americans Knew YouTube channel. This contained 70 videos providing facts-based information about Israel-Palestine. People going to the channel saw a message telling them that the site had been terminated for “violating YouTube guidelines”—implying to...

www.unz.com

EXCERPT "Another project to do battle on the Internet was initiated in 2011 by the 300,000-strong National Union of Israeli Students (NUIS). The goal was “to deepen and expand hasbara [state propaganda] activities of students in the State of Israel.”

Under this program, Israeli students are paid $2,000 to work five hours per week to “lead the battle against hostile websites.” CONTINUED


(3). "Wikipedia Editing Courses Launched by Zionist Propaganda Machine"

You really don't understand, do you? You use a shotgun to spray random lies and misrepresentations hoping something will stick. You excerpted a statements from a booklet put out to help Jewish students by educating them about rhetoric and possible strategies and turned it into a conspiracy theory. You took one sentence used so that those who want to defend Israel know different modes and elements of argumentation and pretended that it was a dictum from on high. Your dishonesty is evident and, as you provided the link so others could see said dishonesty, so is your stupidity.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What makes apologists for Israel's Right Wing criminality so snarky and evasive?

What makes apologists for Palestinian terrorists so stupid and evil?

 

[Grau]

You probably mean Islamic world because "Arab world" is a misnomer;

No, I meant Arab, like the Palestinians are Arab.

Iran was democratic until the CIA and MI 6 overthrew their government, deposed their democratically elected PM Mosaddegh

Yeah, that was very sad. How many votes did Mosaddegh get when he was elected?

The West doesn't generally care what sort of government the Muslims have as long

As long as they don't slaughter their non-Muslim citizens or start wars with their non-Muslim neighbors.

Sorry for the delay in responding. I try to respond to all civil and substantive Posts.

First, I want to be clear that I am not anti Israel and fully support Israel's right to exist.
I am, however, critical of Israel's Right Wing extremists and their policies that are and have been detrimental to to both the US and Israel's long term best interests.

I am critical of Israel's Right Wing extremists because America's unconditional $ Billions have enabled criminal behavior.

Israel's ruling Right Wing has absolutely no incentive to make peace or abide by international law when it knows that it will be rewarded regardless of its behavior.

The double standard in US Middle East policy has earned America the hostility of many in the Islamic world.

When I spent 10 - 11 months hitch hiking and walking throughout the Islamic Middle East, the two questions I was most frequently asked were:
1. Why do Americans suddenly hate us so much?"
2. Why does America help Israel kill the Palestinians and steal their land?"

I tried to explain the toxic influence of Israeli lobbies and the pervasive anti Arab bias in Western MSM.
I tried to explain that not all Americans hate Arabs but they still didn't understand how people so advanced as Americans could be so easily manipulated nor can I.

 

[rosends]

Complaining that people who support Israel are organized and try to educate supporters to present a cohesive and coherent message (especially the younger people who are less practiced in argumentation and need to understand that how a message is sent is as important as the message itself) is just so much whining.

Here is some info on how other groups control technology and social media presentation

Understanding Hamas’s and Hezbollah’s Uses of Information Technology

Hamas and Hezbollah are good at communicating and spreading their ideas. What are their strengths and weaknesses when using different information technologies, and how do they compare with other terrorist groups?

www.csis.org

PA to Pay for Palestinian Editors on Wikipedia? | Honest Reporting

In response to the controversy of Zionist Wikipedia editors, the Palestinian Journalists Syndicate plans to "set up counter editing groups." The union's

honestreporting.com

Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Roundtable Discussion: Amplifying the Palestinian Voice on Wikipedia - حملة - المركز العربي لتطوير الإعلام الاجتماعي

Roundtable Discussion: Amplifying the Palestinian Voice on Wikipedia

7amleh.org

so understanding WHY any group tries to present its side cogently is useful

Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups

Two Israeli groups set up training courses in Wikipedia editing with aims to 'show the other side' over borders and culture

www.theguardian.com

Palestinian Hasbara

From the blog of Calev Michael Myers at The Times of Israel

blogs.timesofisrael.com

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I try to respond to all civil and substantive Posts.

First, I want to be clear that I am not anti Israel and fully support Israel's right to exist.
I am, however, critical of Israel's Right Wing extremists and their policies that are and have been detrimental to to both the US and Israel's long term best interests.

I am critical of Israel's Right Wing extremists because America's unconditional $ Billions have enabled criminal behavior.

Israel's ruling Right Wing has absolutely no incentive to make peace or abide by international law when it knows that it will be rewarded regardless of its behavior.

The double standard in US Middle East policy has earned America the hostility of many in the Islamic world.

When I spent 10 - 11 months hitch hiking and walking throughout the Islamic Middle East, the two questions I was most frequently asked were:
1. Why do Americans suddenly hate us so much?"
2. Why does America help Israel kill the Palestinians and steal their land?"

I tried to explain the toxic influence of Israeli lobbies and the pervasive anti Arab bias in Western MSM.
I tried to explain that not all Americans hate Arabs but they still didn't understand how people so advanced as Americans could be so easily manipulated nor can I.

Israel's ruling Right Wing has absolutely no incentive to make peace

Not like Arafat, right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I try to respond to all civil and substantive Posts.

First, I want to be clear that I am not anti Israel and fully support Israel's right to exist.
I am, however, critical of Israel's Right Wing extremists and their policies that are and have been detrimental to to both the US and Israel's long term best interests.

I am critical of Israel's Right Wing extremists because America's unconditional $ Billions have enabled criminal behavior.

Israel's ruling Right Wing has absolutely no incentive to make peace or abide by international law when it knows that it will be rewarded regardless of its behavior.

The double standard in US Middle East policy has earned America the hostility of many in the Islamic world.

When I spent 10 - 11 months hitch hiking and walking throughout the Islamic Middle East, the two questions I was most frequently asked were:
1. Why do Americans suddenly hate us so much?"
2. Why does America help Israel kill the Palestinians and steal their land?"

I tried to explain the toxic influence of Israeli lobbies and the pervasive anti Arab bias in Western MSM.
I tried to explain that not all Americans hate Arabs but they still didn't understand how people so advanced as Americans could be so easily manipulated nor can I.

You never answered.

How many votes did Mosaddegh get when he was elected?

 

[rylah]

That is proof Arab-Israelis do not have the same rights as Jewish-Israelis. They are treated like 2nd class citizens. You have an apartheid government!

Can they celebrate Israel's Independence Day in Egypt?

This is rather proof you can't rationally justify your hostility,
and will even ridicule the suffering of Africans to demonize Israel.

 

[rylah]

Yes, Arab Israelis should be required to serve in the army just as Jewish Israelis are. End the apartheid of the draft now!

Arabs who want to serve in the army, do.
Yoseph Haddad, for example, was in Golani.

The requirement is to do national service,
they can train as medics or civil workers.

 

[Billo_Really]

Can they celebrate Israel's Independence Day in Egypt?

This is rather proof you can't rationally justify your hostility,
and will even ridicule the suffering of Africans to demonize Israel.

You're just repeating your stupid rehearsed (and probably paid for) mantra.

 

[rylah]

If you're going to accuse me of using "fake quotes", the ethical thing to do would be to prove that it's indeed fake.
How about some proof instead of more hyperbolic Hasbara cut-and-paste?
I've seen it before.



Thats because the title of this thread is: "Who are the Israelis."

During the entire 10 - 11 months I spent by myself in the Islamic Middle East, I never heard the level of bigoted hatred directed at Jews as I have fanatic hatred of Arabs written by Zionist extremists in US Media and forums like this.

In other words, the everyday, working Arab with a family who would give me rides, feed me, introduce me to his friends, provide shelter expressed far less hatred of Jews than you imagine.



It's really hard to take extremist pronouncements like that seriously when Israel has a regional monopoly on nuclear weaponry and is the country with the expansionist Yinon Plan for a "Greater Israel".



That's easy: A just and durable peace which can only come when there is an equitable American Middle East Policy without unconditional US support for each and every Israeli crime and atrocity.

History has shown that repeatedly rewarding Zionist extremism and blatant land theft with countless US $ Billions only emboldens Israel's Right Wing extremists and confirms what Muslims say about AIPAC running US Foreign policy.

I hope we can agree that the present situation is unsustainable.

Unfortunately, it is Israel Right Wing government that shows even hostility to a just and durable peace because the Palestinians have nothing left to give, the Right Wing Israeli government just approved plans to build thousands more illegal and provocative "Settlements" and almost half of Jewish Israelis support ethnic cleansing.


“Nearly half of Israeli Jews believe in ethnic cleansing, survey finds”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/almost-half-of-israeli-jews-want-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-wake-up-call-survey-finds-a6919271.html


Criticizing Israel's Right Wing extremists and their "Greater Israel" agenda is not "anti Semitic".

As a matter of fact, Israel's former Education minister confessed that repeatedly howling "anti Semite" and exploiting the Holocaust to silence justified condemnation was called "The Trick":

EXCERPTS "“Well, it’s a trick, we always use it. When from Europe somebody is criticizing Israel, then we bring up the Holocaust. When in this country people are criticizing Israel, then they are anti-Semitic.....

And it’s very easy to blame people who criticize certain acts of the Israeli government as anti-Semitic, and to bring up the Holocaust, and the suffering of the Jewish people, and that is to justify everything we do to the Palestinians.”CONTINUED

Shulamit Aloni

Don’t be caught out by ‘the trick'

In August 2002 former Israeli Minister of Education Shulamit Aloni was interviewed on the radio and television program Democracy Now .

www.scoop.co.nz

Yeah, your quote is fake,
and it's your responsibility to provide the source.
If this concept is too complicated, so much for your "research".

Now what is your point,
the survey says 4 million Israelis will readily defend their 0.01% of the land,
against Arab supremacists who seek exclusive domination over the entire Middle East?

What if other minorities in MENA seek independence from the yoke of Arab imperialism?

 

[rylah]

You're just repeating your stupid rehearsed (and probably paid for) mantra.

Prove me wrong, you just make the most stupid excuses to hate Israel,
and broaden the definition of apartheid so wide that it includes every country.

 

[Billo_Really]

Prove me wrong.

I already have! You just refuse to acknowledge that.

 

[rylah]

I already have! You just refuse to acknowledge that.

But you won't quote it for some reason,
and your recent attempt to justify this irrational hatred
just broadened the definition of apartheid to every country.

So who are you to preach to me about whom I should vote for?

 

[rylah]

What makes apologists for Israel's Right Wing criminality so snarky and evasive?

Is it because they can't refute facts about Israel's provocative "Settlements" policy that prove that this Israeli government prefers conflict as a means to steal more land?

Or...

Is it because of the embarrassing fact that almost half of Israel's Jews support ethnic cleansing? (so much for the "lessons of the Holocaust")

I also stated the fact that IDF aids and abets Israel's hate filled Settlers on their criminal and murderous rampages and uses captive Palestinians for weapons experimentation but you ignored those inconvenient facts.

Instead of trying to refute the irrefutable, you accuse me of misrepresenting the content of of the infamous "Hasbara Handbook" when I wrote:

EXCERPT "It is a fact that Israel's Right Wing government funds an army of paid, trained and scripted Hasbara trolls.
On page 8 of their Hasbara Handbook they are instructed to: "...give the appearance of rational debate, whilst avoiding genuine discussion." (1)" CONTINUED
First of all, Israel is the only country in the world with a US Funded multi $ Million / Billion propaganda ministry that pays, trains and scripts angry Zionists to revile anyone supporting International Law and basic Human Rights as "anti Semites", "neo Nazis", "Jew haters" etc.

The US funded Israeli government pays, trains and writes scripts for hundreds of thousands (2) of angry Zionist trolls to censor anything Israel's Right Wing extremist government doesn't want seen in Wikipedia(3) or anywhere else.

So, if you think that you're just being insulted and lied to by a single Zionist troll at home, you're really dealing with a large room full of angry, connected Hasbara trolls who are paid to try to improve Israel's dismal image all day long.

Finally, if I were trying to deceive anyone about the content of the Hasbara Handbook, I wouldn't have included easy access to the entire document. (1)


(1) "Hasbara Handbook
https://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf


(2). How Israel and Its Partisans Work to Censor the Internet"

How Israel and its partisans work to censor the Internet

Recently, YouTube suddenly shut down the If Americans Knew YouTube channel. This contained 70 videos providing facts-based information about Israel-Palestine. People going to the channel saw a message telling them that the site had been terminated for “violating YouTube guidelines”—implying to...

www.unz.com

EXCERPT "Another project to do battle on the Internet was initiated in 2011 by the 300,000-strong National Union of Israeli Students (NUIS). The goal was “to deepen and expand hasbara [state propaganda] activities of students in the State of Israel.”

Under this program, Israeli students are paid $2,000 to work five hours per week to “lead the battle against hostile websites.” CONTINUED


(3). "Wikipedia Editing Courses Launched by Zionist Propaganda Machine"

What facts,
you just throw accusation all over the place.

If everyone who doesn't agree with you is a paid agent,
what does it make you with other Arab supremacists here?

Maybe you can't fathom the fact that Israelis proudly defending their country
are actually patriotic, but it's certainly not because you can refute their arguments.

 

[rosends]

ye

Arabs who want to serve in the army, do.
Yoseph Haddad, for example, was in Golani.

The requirement is to do national service,
they can train as medics or civil workers.

yes, but if someone complains that there are separate laws for Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs, then one should look at ALL the differences and endorse full equality. I have yet to hear someone screaming "apartheid" who complains that more Arabs should be forced into the IDF because then they would be being treated equally.

 

[Billo_Really]

But you won't quote it for some reason,
and your recent attempt to justify this irrational hatred
just broadened the definition of apartheid to every country.

So who are you to preach to me about whom I should vote for?

You waffle more than IHOP!

 

[Grau]

What facts,
you just throw accusation all over the place.

If everyone who doesn't agree with you is a paid agent,
what does it make you with other Arab supremacists here?

Maybe you can't fathom the fact that Israelis proudly defending their country
are actually patriotic, but it's certainly not because you can refute their arguments.

I don't think that you fully understand my point.

You Israelis have plenty of reasons to be proud but perpetuating criminal Settlement policies and ethnic cleansing is neither in Israel's long term best interests nor America's best interests for bankrolling both criminal acts.

No, I don't believe that everyone who writes in support of Israel's Right Wing extremists is a paid, trained and scripted Hasbara troll but when so many of the insults, evasions, cliche's and falsehoods are all the same it's hard to dismiss as just coincidence.

Finally, what did I write that was false?

It is a fact that Israel's criminal "Settlements" prove that Israel's Right Wing regime has no interest in a just and durable peace.

It is a fact that almost half of Israel's Jews support ethnic cleansing of Palestine's native residents.

It's also a fact that IDF aids and abets psycho Settlers on their murderous, destruction of Palestinian olive groves, homes and farms.

I oppose those and other Right Wing Israeli crimes because the reflect poorly on the US Government and engender even more anti American sentiment around the Islamic world.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't think that you fully understand my point.

You Israelis have plenty of reasons to be proud but perpetuating criminal Settlement policies and ethnic cleansing is neither in Israel's long term best interests nor America's best interests for bankrolling both criminal acts.

No, I don't believe that everyone who writes in support of Israel's Right Wing extremists is a paid, trained and scripted Hasbara troll but when so many of the insults, evasions, cliche's and falsehoods are all the same it's hard to dismiss as just coincidence.

Finally, what did I write that was false?

It is a fact that Israel's criminal "Settlements" prove that Israel's Right Wing regime has no interest in a just and durable peace.

It is a fact that almost half of Israel's Jews support ethnic cleansing of Palestine's native residents.

It's also a fact that IDF aids and abets psycho Settlers on their murderous, destruction of Palestinian olive groves, homes and farms.

I oppose those and other Right Wing Israeli crimes because the reflect poorly on the US Government and engender even more anti American sentiment around the Islamic world.

It is a fact that Israel's criminal "Settlements" prove that Israel's Right Wing regime has no interest in a just and durable peace.

Who are they supposed to make a durable peace with?

 

[Grau]

It is a fact that Israel's criminal "Settlements" prove that Israel's Right Wing regime has no interest in a just and durable peace.

Who are they supposed to make a durable peace with?

The answer to your question is:
The same people whose homes, farm and land has been stolen due to the policies of Israel's Right Wing "Settlers" and similar Zionist extremists.

The US Government's unconditional support of Israel's Right Wing extremists endangers America's G.I.s and America's best interest in the region.

I fully support Israel's right to exist and Israel's courageous peace seeking element but my first loyalty is to the US and America's best interests in the region which can only be served by an equitable Middle East policy.

Unfortunately, Israel's present Right Wing government does not want peace:


Israel Does Not Want Peace"
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-does-not-want-peace-1.5253291

EXCERPT "Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone.

Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides.

The single most overwhelming item of evidence of Israel’s rejection of peace is, of course, the settlements project. From the dawn of its existence, there has never been a more reliable or more precise litmus test for Israel’s true intentions than this particular enterprise. In plain words: The builders of settlements want to consolidate the occupation, and those who want to consolidate the occupation do not want peace. That’s the whole story in a nutshell." CONTINUED


Thanks,