Who here is an atheist?

[ding]

Can anyone answer the question? When it says psalms 52 vs 5 “and the lord said....” who is writing this? You would think this is a very important man who is telling us an entire book of what the lord said. Yet I’ll bet you most believers don’t even know.

First, Verse 5 of Psalm 52 is: You Love evil rather than good, lies rather than honest speech. (Nowhere is, "and the Lord said...")

Second, this particular Psalm is attributed to the authorship of King David.

Third, no one man wrote the Bible. The Bible is a collection of book, and several of the books have more than one author.

These are very important men in human history. Who were they?

If it were really important to you, you would have looked up each one when you started reading a new book of the bible.

So maybe this is just an excuse for not believing.

 

[ding]

What is time to God?

Can anyone answer the question? When it says psalms 52 vs 5 “and the lord said....” who is writing this? You would think this is a very important man who is telling us an entire book of what the lord said. Yet I’ll bet you most believers don’t even know.

Authorship is a hard one to determine. They have good ideas of the who for some things, a guess for others and no clue at all for some.

More important than the who, is understanding the literary style used by the author and the context of the day.

No I think knowing who’s telling us what god said is very important.

Why?

If your house was on fire would it matter who told you?

Funny you say that. This guys mom died and someone anonymous told the police the son did it and the weapon was in the car. The cops found the weapon. So was the son guilty? Who called in the tip? Turns out it was the real killer. So yea It matters. These founders of your religion. You folks don’t even know who they are. Sounding more like a fairytale

Congratulations! You just took that analogy too far.

Look, if it really mattered to you who wrote the Bible, you would have looked it up already. Do you follow that logic?

And since you didn't already look it up, that means it really isn't important to you. Do you follow that logic?

And if it isn't really important to you and you keep making such a big deal out of it, that means you are just using it as an excuse to confirm your bias.

Hell, who knows... if you had done the work maybe you might think differently. Of course that would be hard work, amirite?

 

[ding]

These are very important men in human history. Who were they?

Yes. There were many, and it would take a long time to discuss them all. Did you have one in particular you wish to talk about? Or, is your point only a few of us take the time to learn about them? How much do we know about any author? For example, I know a lot about The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, and very little about JRR Tolkien.

That’s because that author is writing fiction.

I guess they’re the same thing. Lol

Confirmation bias.

 

[ding]

As for religious studies being taught I'm all for it in the higher grades. Definitely not elementary. The problem with favouritism or bias once a religion or a part of that religion is criticized by students or staff all hell would break loose.

This is like saying one is in favor of math being taught in the higher grades, but definitely not elementary. Elementary school studies is what prepares one for higher learning. Like any other subject, elementary school studies is like first setting the nail on which to hang a hat. When there is no nail, there is no place later hang the hat.

I saw this first hand. Grade 7 students were being taught religious studies. First a student waked out when the subject of the reformation came up, yelling "Why is everyone picking on the Catholics!" and when Wicca was presented there were several complaints from many Christian parents. It does not work in an elementary school.

The school didn't teach religion, they began the morning by reading a few verses of scripture --- usually from the Psalms and Proverbs. It started the mind wondering.

What are you talking about. The school was teaching religious studies. Not the indoctrination of students. You do realize there is more than one religion.

I think LN is describing what it was like when school prayer was acceptable.

 

[ding]

So you are upset about ancient history? Could you show me something a little more recent that shows how atheists are being persecuted TODAY. Because if you want to go back in history to see persecution, you only need to go back the the 20th century for the 200 million souls that were murdered by oppressive atheistic nations.

How are atheists persecuted in the US today?

Did you not see the part about Atheists not allowed to hold public office in 7 States? Did you not watch the video I submitted. Here is another. There used to be a real good video out there but I can't find it anymore.

The problem is that Secular Humanist organizations and clubs work to undermine the spiritual aspect of any organization they are allowed to control. They have totally undermined many colleges and universities by being allowed to gain the upper hand in the science departments, where they endeavor to either exclude or mold students who have a Christian upbringing by distorting and not accepting Creation and Intelligent Design as being valid concepts. Institution after institution not only denies jobs to Christian scientists but fail to pass students who have the "Gaul" to do papers and dissertations which fail to follow the atheistic train of evolutionist thought. Once they gain control of the Sciences they then begin to eliminate all religious affiliation the institution may have once had and make it completely secular.

The reality is that the benevolence extended towards Secular Humanist and Atheists in the name of educational diversity is never reciprocated! Once Christians are in the educational minority, they become targets to expel, retire, and eliminate one way or another.

Because a god did not poof land animals into existence. Your hypothesis isn’t even a theory especially not a scientific theory.

God created everything just like a artist creates a painting or a sculpture. And why not, that's exactly like we'd do it. Who would imagine GOD inferior to humans?

First you have to prove god exists before you claim he made anything.

Does it matter if we believe? The great thing about atheism is it doesn’t matter if you believe or not. Do you think it matters outside of making you happy?

No. First YOU have to believe God may exist and go back and be objective.

I couldn't care less how poorly you live your life.

 

[ding]

That’s because that author is writing fiction.

I guess they’re the same thing. Lol

Robert Frost is the author of the poem Road Not Taken. He said he took the one less traveled, and that made all the difference. In the same way, King David, said to be the author of many of the Psalms wrote songs and poetry, centered around the difficulties in his life, but where he also perceived truths and God at work.

Biblical authors wrote plays, maxims, proverbs, histories, biographies, laws, customs, poetry, songs, about their personal lives, etc. In the thinking of modern man, these would not fall into our classifications of either non-fiction or fiction. In ancient times, people thought in terms of stories, If something was worthy of being taught or remembered, it was woven into a story. True stories are becoming a lost art. Certainly understanding these stories is already a lost art among atheist because to them Bible stories have gone the way of butter churns.

Butter churns can still turn out a most excellent butter, people have just decided not to bother. That seems to be the way of atheists with Bible stories. The original authors' intent is still there whether atheists bother to understand it or not.

Be good? We get it. You don’t think we understand the message the preacher is preaching? Of course we do. We just look around and realize it all revolves around a lie.

A lie is a lie no matter how good it makes you feel and ultimately it’s better to know the truth.

I don’t mind someone hoping and wishing for but don’t tell me your religion has all the answers.

It’s verifiably true they use religion to control us. Keep us stupid. Plus it’s a huge industry.

For that reason alone I don’t want it to go away. It’s a huge industry

The ones who worship the created (i.e. material) instead of the Creator (spirit) are the ones who are living the lie.

 

[ding]

Be good? We get it. You don’t think we understand the message the preacher is preaching? Of course we do. We just look around and realize it all revolves around a lie.

A lie is a lie no matter how good it makes you feel and ultimately it’s better to know the truth.

I don’t mind someone hoping and wishing for but don’t tell me your religion has all the answers.

It’s verifiably true they use religion to control us. Keep us stupid. Plus it’s a huge industry.

For that reason alone I don’t want it to go away. It’s a huge industry

I see it is easy to build a case against religion using logical fallacies. First, Christianity is built around truth. You say it is better to know the truth, yet you promote the idea of truth as a lie. Second, no one says any religion has all the answers. That's like saying every hammer will build a house. Religion is more like a toolbox where it gives options and possibilities for creating a good life and the best version of yourself that is possible. Third, religion (outside of cults) does not control people. Rather it helps people gain control of their individual assets and debts and be responsible for who they are and who they will be.

Next, it is not our knowledge of history, evolution, or calculus that teaches us to live life. Religion, especially Christianity, counsels people not only how to get along with themselves, but with others. I love science, learned a lot from it, but it never taught me how to get along with others, especially difficult bosses, angry co-workers, or how to be a good friend when friends are going through rough patches.

In fact, I see people who argue against religion as those who are arguing for keeping people stupid.

That was awesome. I'm going to use this.

Are you a deacon?

 

[ding]

I was told that I can't join the Elks, because I am an atheist. That is disappointing, because their bar is one of the best in my small town. On the other hand, whenever I think of joining fraternal orders, such as the Elks, Moose, Shriner's, etc., I simply can't take it seriously. It makes me think of the Mystic Knights of the Sea from Amos and Andy, or whatever Ralph and Ed belonged to in the Honeymooners. What this country needs is an atheist fraternal organization, perhaps named, the Royal Order of the Godless Drinkers.

You could always lie, amirite?

 

[ding]

I already stated Atheists were standing up to the backlash they have encountered over the centuries. Let's start with today. Did you know there are 7 states that do not allow atheists to hold public office. During the inquisition atheists were tortured and executed. I don't need to give you a history lesson, it would take up too much space. Atheists are certainly persecuted in the US though.

So you are upset about ancient history? Could you show me something a little more recent that shows how atheists are being persecuted TODAY. Because if you want to go back in history to see persecution, you only need to go back the the 20th century for the 200 million souls that were murdered by oppressive atheistic nations.

How are atheists persecuted in the US today?

Did you not see the part about Atheists not allowed to hold public office in 7 States? Did you not watch the video I submitted. Here is another. There used to be a real good video out there but I can't find it anymore.

Yeah, I'm going to call BS on that. Long standing law from long ago, back when states had established religions, as permitted by the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment, that are not likely being enforced.

No where did I see a report of anyone having to sign an affidavit that they were not atheists. Can you show me where someone was actually denied the right to serve based on being an atheist.

They have been challenged in the recent past.

"Cecil Bothwell (North Carolina) was elected on November 3, 2009, to the city council after he won the third highest number of votes in the city election. Following the election, opponents of Bothwell, including H. K. Edgerton, a former president of the Asheville NAACP, challenged his election because the North Carolina Constitution does not allow for atheists to hold public office in the state. Law experts argued the provision was invalid because the United States Constitution prevents religious tests for public office. The Supreme Court of the United States held in Torcaso v. Watkins (1961) that such provisions violate the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution."

The Constitution of North Carolina was written in 1776 and had amendments to it twice in 1868 and 1971. The part about Atheists was not amended.

And this is persecution to you? You really see it that way? It's not someone trying to game the system because they lost an election? Never mind that their plan failed and justice prevailed.

Yes, I can see why we should form a nation for atheists like we did for Israel. This is like the holocaust all over again.

Dude, this is exactly how I called it. Long standing law with no effect. And yet this is the best anyone can show for atheist persecution.

 

[ding]

No I don't look down on believers. I do point out hypocrisies though.

Me too, except I call them incongruities. What hypocrisy of mine have you pointed out?

You showed disrespect to other religions when you state your god is the only one or when you state Zeus is part of mythology instead of a religion. I treat all religions equally. You pick and chose which ones you disrespect.

That is absolutely ridiculous. Based on your belief no one could believe in any God without offending someone else. Did you offend all the women you didn't marry?

I give all religions respect. Greek mythology isn't a religion. Can you show me how I disrespect other religions that are not my own without basing it on I didn't select that religion to follow. Because if I had, I would still be disrespecting the ones I didn't choose. amirite?

I already stated Atheists were standing up to the backlash they have encountered over the centuries. Let's start with today. Did you know there are 7 states that do not allow atheists to hold public office. During the inquisition atheists were tortured and executed. I don't need to give you a history lesson, it would take up too much space. Atheists are certainly persecuted in the US though.

So you are upset about ancient history? Could you show me something a little more recent that shows how atheists are being persecuted TODAY. Because if you want to go back in history to see persecution, you only need to go back the the 20th century for the 200 million souls that were murdered by oppressive atheistic nations.

How are atheists persecuted in the US today?

The title of this thread is 'Who here is an Atheist?". Why are you here?

Good question. I seek out incongruities and present them. It's up to them what they do about it. My obligation is satisfied when I present the info.

Well we agree on this but when they had prayer in school many non-christians were forced to pray. Religion should be kept out of school.

No. Students should be allowed to express their faith.

Besides religious studies are a valid subject matter to discuss as long as favoritism isn't shown by the administrators. Maybe if it had, you wouldn't only see half the picture.

Everybody here is criticizing each other. This is a debate forum.

Don't kid yourself. No one is debating here. They are here for the car crashes.

Where did you get the bull from. It has defecated all over this.

Dude, it is 100% what you do. You practice critical theory. Not critical thinking. As to where it came from? It came from Cultural Marxists at the Frankfort School in Germany. They married Freud with Marx for the express purpose of socially engineering a solution to replace loyalty to God, family and country with loyalty to state. As WWI was approaching, the Marxists were pissing their pants in anticipation of the workers revolution. Funny thing though, it never happened. Why? Because the people reverted back to loyalty of country. So they set about the deceitful practice to subordinate God, family, religion and country through behavioral engineering (i.e. brainwashing). When Hitler came to power, the Cultural Marxists fled Germany to America and took up residence in the east coast universities. Now you know.

Greek mythology was a real religion.

Is atheism a religion?

Today, Greek Mythology is not a religion. We don't see anyone practicing these beliefs and we don't see anyone exhibiting behaviors that would be associated with a religious person (let me know if you need for me to explain what these behaviors are).

Today, Militant Atheism is a religion. People practice it and exhibit religious behaviors.

Wow, this will be the third time I have said this. Yes there are people today who practice the religion of Hellenism. Not many about 100,000 worldwide, but they exist.

The Ancient Greek practice of Hellenism lives on as a modern religion

Also you and your cohorts need to stop using the term "Militant Atheists" Militant means to be aggressive and combatant, favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods in support of a political or social cause. Again, you have zero understanding what the word religion means. Now people have used the informal use of the word religion" like "Hockey is my religion" but this practice does not mean hockey is a religion. They use the term to describe the importance or their pursuit or interest.

And in post #308 I explained to you that I would be disrespecting them if I argued with them about their beliefs and tried to tell them what their religion said.

 

[ding]

Authorship is a hard one to determine. They have good ideas of the who for some things, a guess for others and no clue at all for some.

More important than the who, is understanding the literary style used by the author and the context of the day.

No I think knowing who’s telling us what god said is very important.

Why?

If your house was on fire would it matter who told you?

If I was told my house was on fire, it might matter who told me. If a man wearing a fireman's uniform ran up to me, and told me my house was on fire, I would probably rush home. If some drunken sot waddled up to me, and slurred out that my house was on fire, before puking on my shoes? Wellll...I might be more inclined to ignore him...

Well... the fireman would be a stranger because the reasonable assumption is that is how he would have knowledge that YOUR house was on fire. He may have transposed the numbers of the address and it's your neighbors house that's on fire.

Whereas that drunk would have had to know YOU personally. How else would he know it was YOUR house that was on fire.

Putting that aside, I submit that of the 99% of knowledge that you possess came from accepting it on authority of others. I am willing to bet that you do not know the source of the knowledge of the vast majority of it.

It really is a BS argument to say we should have all the knowledge in the world on an event that happened 2000 years ago. Especially since this is the only event in antiquity that you hold to that standard. And especially since this event had more information recorded closer to the event than any other event in antiquity. And especially since it was orders of magnitude more. And especially since no other event in antiquity has been studied as extensively. And especially since it was orders of magnitude more. And especially since no other event in the history of the world has had a greater impact on mankind than the ministry of Jesus Christ. Not bad for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day whose ministry only lasted 3 1/2 years.

Stop acting like there is little to know evidence that hasn't been studied.

First you are changing subjects. The question wasn't about the account of Jesus. However, let's leave that, for a moment.

No one is suggesting that we should have "all the knowledge in the world" about the life, and death of Jesus. However, especially considering the alleged 100 witnesses of the alleged resurrection, would it not see reasonable, that there would be, at least, a few independent, contemporary accounts? Yet, we have not found even a single one.

Can you give me an example of a contemporary account of Julius Caesars Gallic Wars so that I may better understand what you are asking for?

And I didn't change subjects. You are calling into question the tangible evidence for the existence, ministry, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ, right? Placing that evidence in its proper context to other events in antiquity is 100% relevant and not off subject.

 

[Meriweather]

To me it depends on what we are talking about here.

When I say religious studies, I mean to say all major religions being discussed in a semester.

Not like the religious studies done at a Catholic school.

No one can learn one religion in a semester let alone all religions. It's like having a semester of math covering everything from pre-algebra to advanced calculus.

 

[ding]

To me it depends on what we are talking about here.

When I say religious studies, I mean to say all major religions being discussed in a semester.

Not like the religious studies done at a Catholic school.

No one can learn one religion in a semester let alone all religions. It's like having a semester of math covering everything from pre-algebra to advanced calculus.

Right. I agree. What you are talking about is becoming an expert in a specific religion. I am talking about a comparative analysis which teaches to an awareness level of education or possibly basic level of education.

Huston Smith wrote an excellent book on the world's religions. He tried to show each religion in it's best light. It is a detailed high level summary of each of the major religions. He did not go into any of the diversifications of each religion (except for Reformation).

If you haven't read it yet, I suggest you do. You won't be disappointed at all. In the book he said that we should never expect to know the religion of another - that is not our own - like they do, but if we remember that they are human beings just like us, we don't need to fail miserably at our attempt. I liked that sentiment and that is the sentiment I have adopted to all religions.

Except those filthy Hellenians. Just kidding.

 

[Meriweather]

That was awesome. I'm going to use this.

Are you a deacon?

Thank you. No, I am not a deacon, just someone who never lost interest in studying the Bible. Also, I am (usually) a careful listener in Church. I've taken in many good homilies. The Catholic Church has some fabulous priests.

I've been enjoying reading your posts. You have a lot to offer.

 

[ding]

That was awesome. I'm going to use this.

Are you a deacon?

Thank you. No, I am not a deacon, just someone who never lost interest in studying the Bible. Also, I am (usually) a careful listener in Church. I've taken in many good homilies. The Catholic Church has some fabulous priests.

I've been enjoying reading your posts. You have a lot to offer.

You should consider it.

Cradle or RCIA?

 

[Meriweather]

Right. I agree. What you are talking about is becoming an expert in a specific religion. I am talking about a comparative analysis which teaches to an awareness level of education or possibly basic level of education.

Huston Smith wrote an excellent book on the world's religions. He tried to show each religion in it's best light. It is a detailed high level summary of each of the major religions. He did not go into any of the diversifications of each religion (except for Reformation).

If you haven't read it yet, I suggest you do. You won't be disappointed at all. In the book he said that we should never expect to know the religion of another - that is not our own - like they do, but if we remember that they are human beings just like us, we don't need to fail miserably at our attempt. I liked that sentiment and that is the sentiment I have adopted to all religions.

Except those filthy Hellenians. Just kidding.

Thank you for the recommendation. I may not be able to read it right away, but I have made a note of it and appreciate it.

 

[Meriweather]

Cradle or RCIA?

Cradle--and a great believer in infant baptism.

 

[ding]

Cradle or RCIA?

Cradle--and a great believer in infant baptism.

Me too. But I have never met an RCIA that didn't impress the heck out of me.

 

[Czernobog]

No I think knowing who’s telling us what god said is very important.

Why?

If your house was on fire would it matter who told you?

If I was told my house was on fire, it might matter who told me. If a man wearing a fireman's uniform ran up to me, and told me my house was on fire, I would probably rush home. If some drunken sot waddled up to me, and slurred out that my house was on fire, before puking on my shoes? Wellll...I might be more inclined to ignore him...

Well... the fireman would be a stranger because the reasonable assumption is that is how he would have knowledge that YOUR house was on fire. He may have transposed the numbers of the address and it's your neighbors house that's on fire.

Whereas that drunk would have had to know YOU personally. How else would he know it was YOUR house that was on fire.

Putting that aside, I submit that of the 99% of knowledge that you possess came from accepting it on authority of others. I am willing to bet that you do not know the source of the knowledge of the vast majority of it.

It really is a BS argument to say we should have all the knowledge in the world on an event that happened 2000 years ago. Especially since this is the only event in antiquity that you hold to that standard. And especially since this event had more information recorded closer to the event than any other event in antiquity. And especially since it was orders of magnitude more. And especially since no other event in antiquity has been studied as extensively. And especially since it was orders of magnitude more. And especially since no other event in the history of the world has had a greater impact on mankind than the ministry of Jesus Christ. Not bad for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day whose ministry only lasted 3 1/2 years.

Stop acting like there is little to know evidence that hasn't been studied.

First you are changing subjects. The question wasn't about the account of Jesus. However, let's leave that, for a moment.

No one is suggesting that we should have "all the knowledge in the world" about the life, and death of Jesus. However, especially considering the alleged 100 witnesses of the alleged resurrection, would it not see reasonable, that there would be, at least, a few independent, contemporary accounts? Yet, we have not found even a single one.

Can you give me an example of a contemporary account of Julius Caesars Gallic Wars so that I may better understand what you are asking for?

And I didn't change subjects. You are calling into question the tangible evidence for the existence, ministry, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ, right? Placing that evidence in its proper context to other events in antiquity is 100% relevant and not off subject.

Cassius Dio Histories, Caesar's Commentaries, The writings of Plutarch, just to name a few.

 

[sealybobo]

Can anyone answer the question? When it says psalms 52 vs 5 “and the lord said....” who is writing this? You would think this is a very important man who is telling us an entire book of what the lord said. Yet I’ll bet you most believers don’t even know.

Authorship is a hard one to determine. They have good ideas of the who for some things, a guess for others and no clue at all for some.

More important than the who, is understanding the literary style used by the author and the context of the day.

No I think knowing who’s telling us what god said is very important.

Why?

If your house was on fire would it matter who told you?

If I was told my house was on fire, it might matter who told me. If a man wearing a fireman's uniform ran up to me, and told me my house was on fire, I would probably rush home. If some drunken sot waddled up to me, and slurred out that my house was on fire, before puking on my shoes? Wellll...I might be more inclined to ignore him...

Well... the fireman would be a stranger because the reasonable assumption is that is how he would have knowledge that YOUR house was on fire. He may have transposed the numbers of the address and it's your neighbors house that's on fire.

Whereas that drunk would have had to know YOU personally. How else would he know it was YOUR house that was on fire.

Putting that aside, I submit that of the 99% of knowledge that you possess came from accepting it on authority of others. I am willing to bet that you do not know the source of the knowledge of the vast majority of it.

It really is a BS argument to say we should have all the knowledge in the world on an event that happened 2000 years ago. Especially since this is the only event in antiquity that you hold to that standard. And especially since this event had more information recorded closer to the event than any other event in antiquity. And especially since it was orders of magnitude more. And especially since no other event in antiquity has been studied as extensively. And especially since it was orders of magnitude more. And especially since no other event in the history of the world has had a greater impact on mankind than the ministry of Jesus Christ. Not bad for a convicted criminal who was put to death by the superpower of the day whose ministry only lasted 3 1/2 years.

Stop acting like there is little to know evidence that hasn't been studied.

When telling a bullshit story never be too specific. You will get caught in a lie. So the foundinging of your religion is pretty vague. Who told you this? And he knows that how? Who is saying that? Yes I need to know the answer to all these things before I go believing something this unbelievable and I’m ashamed my fellow humans are still so gullible but we are still evolving. This is something we will shed