Who is actually winning in Ukraine?

[Sunni Man]

You really think Russia can afford to send their entire military in?

Putin is going to do whatever it takes to win the special military operation in Ukraine and achieve his goals. ...

 

[HappyJoy]

Putin is going to do whatever it takes to win the special military operation in Ukraine and achieve his goals. ...

Oh, it's turning out to be so very 'special'.

 

[Toro]

I actually think that Ukraine will end up being a disastrous blunder for the US-EU. Russia doesn't really have to accomplish anything further. Military defeat is unlikely. Putin's narrative has ALWAYS been to secure the Donbass and Crimea regions into autonomous or wholly Russian Oblasts. It looks like Russia's moving to secure those interests now. Anything else for them would be gravy.

But I think there's a "Great Game" here that they anticipated, because they've been preparing for it for 7 years.

Russia wants to deal a death blow to EU-US "Eurodollar" reserve currency and SWIFT. And they have. The entire world watches as the EU begs and blatantly refuses to pay Russia for gas in Rubles (a deadline which ends with the April Futures contract and payments must begin April 1st for all later Futures contracts: Nuances).

What this does for China, India, African nations we prey upon, South America, everyone else not in the elite OECD club is show that they are slaves to the Eurodollar. An expensive, controlled and abused currency. Whenever the US takes too much debt, the US prints more dollars, European Union does the same.

But when crushing trade and unfair financial practices forces Nigeria into debt, in comes the IMF, the US Aircraft Carriers, and the tools of Empire, to force Nigeria, or whoever, to bow to the Eurodollar.

How is that fair? How is that free? How is that DEMOCRATIC?

It's not.

And with the simple refusal to pay a sovereign nation in their sovereign currency for their national resources......Russia has exposed the US-EU as an impotent imperialist power that has been bloodsucking the world for decades.

The world has watched and listened.

And the world will turn to China for a neutral 3rd party, as Putin has foretold.

A world with a basket of currencies, where each nation pays for a nation's goods/services in their currency, not in some global Empire currency.

This is the death blow to the US-EU.

The question is, is it working? I think we see the cracks, but it's too early for any columns to crumble. The US-EU empire can limp on, or even recover, if it plays its cards right.

No one thinks the idiots in charge now are competent enough, however.

Ukraine is "actually winning."

Military defeat for Russia is already happening.

The American dollar will remain the world's reserve currency for many reasons.

And you're a Russian troll.

 

[FA_Q2]

Uh what? It's literally happening this month lol. All Futures contracts after April must be paid for (starting in April as of today) in Rubles.

And has Europe paid in Rubles yet? Are they getting charged 20%?

No.

So gas flow to Europe has halted then, right?

No?

So.....

What is happening then?

Putin talks tough on gas-for-rubles deadline. But flows continue to Europe

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi believe Putin's decree does not apply to them.

www.cnbc.com

 

[FA_Q2]

Putin is going to do whatever it takes to win the special military operation in Ukraine and achieve his goals. ...

No, Putin is going to do whatever it takes to save face, make a gain that he can pitch to the Russian populace as a 'win' and then end this.

The only real question is if Ukraine and the west give him something that can achieve this before things get even uglier.

 

[HappyJoy]

No, Putin is going to do whatever it takes to save face, make a gain that he can pitch to the Russian populace as a 'win' and then end this.

The only real question is if Ukraine and the west give him something that can achieve this before things get even uglier.

The more this goes on the more I'm less inclined to think we need to give Putin an out. That is mostly up to Ukraine as they are the ones who will take the extended hit however, if Russia walks away with something that can be called a win, then it's not over. It will never be over.

However, if Russia is forced out of Ukraine (and that is not impossible) then Russia shrinks everywhere. They are already
going to be in the whole for a decade whether they come back with a consolation prize or not. However, what does Belarus, or rebels in Georgia and other satellite states do when the guy that is propping them up loses? How about those far right nationalist assholes like Le Pen in France find that the guy they admire is humiliated? Are they still going to rant about immigrants flooding their countries due at least in part to Putin's activities in Syria?

I'm not attempting to make any definitive statements as there is at least a perceived risk in pushing Putin too far. I'm just not sure it's a reality when Russian generals (the ones not being killed in Ukraine) are lying to Putin about the status of the war (which could be total bs anyway, but entirely realistic at the same time).

Anyway, does Putin need an out? I'm less and less sure of that.

EDIT: I apologize for the over use of "however".

 

[Baron]

I actually think that Ukraine will end up being a disastrous blunder for the US-EU. Russia doesn't really have to accomplish anything further. Military defeat is unlikely. Putin's narrative has ALWAYS been to secure the Donbass and Crimea regions into autonomous or wholly Russian Oblasts. It looks like Russia's moving to secure those interests now. Anything else for them would be gravy.

But I think there's a "Great Game" here that they anticipated, because they've been preparing for it for 7 years.

Russia wants to deal a death blow to EU-US "Eurodollar" reserve currency and SWIFT. And they have. The entire world watches as the EU begs and blatantly refuses to pay Russia for gas in Rubles (a deadline which ends with the April Futures contract and payments must begin April 1st for all later Futures contracts: Nuances).

What this does for China, India, African nations we prey upon, South America, everyone else not in the elite OECD club is show that they are slaves to the Eurodollar. An expensive, controlled and abused currency. Whenever the US takes too much debt, the US prints more dollars, European Union does the same.

But when crushing trade and unfair financial practices forces Nigeria into debt, in comes the IMF, the US Aircraft Carriers, and the tools of Empire, to force Nigeria, or whoever, to bow to the Eurodollar.

How is that fair? How is that free? How is that DEMOCRATIC?

It's not.

And with the simple refusal to pay a sovereign nation in their sovereign currency for their national resources......Russia has exposed the US-EU as an impotent imperialist power that has been bloodsucking the world for decades.

The world has watched and listened.

And the world will turn to China for a neutral 3rd party, as Putin has foretold.

A world with a basket of currencies, where each nation pays for a nation's goods/services in their currency, not in some global Empire currency.

This is the death blow to the US-EU.

The question is, is it working? I think we see the cracks, but it's too early for any columns to crumble. The US-EU empire can limp on, or even recover, if it plays its cards right.

No one thinks the idiots in charge now are competent enough, however.

Below are the true winners of Ukrainian crisis

 

[Rogue AI]

Ukraine is "actually winning."

Military defeat for Russia is already happening.

The American dollar will remain the world's reserve currency for many reasons.

And you're a Russian troll.

4 million people don't flee the winning side.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Putin has painted himself into a corner
He can no longer win

At best, he will leave a poorly supplied occupation force in the cities and have them slowly picked off

At worst, his invasion collapses and he loses his power base

Right...things are about to get really really bad. Come this fall and winter---the west is going to be hurting.

 

[HappyJoy]

4 million people don't flee the winning side.

Yeah, people tend to flee war zones where civilians are targeted which is completely separate from Russia getting it's ass handed to them by a smaller army.

 

[badger2]

This video may already have been posted on another thread.

Russians ‘leave burned & booby-trapped bodies of civilians' on road of death

MERCILESS Russian soldiers have reportedly left burned and booby-trapped bodies of executed civilians on a highway in the latest horrific war crimes. A total of thirteen bodies were seen on the mai…

www.the-sun.com

 

[Rogue AI]

Yeah, people tend to flee war zones where civilians are targeted which is completely separate from Russia getting it's ass handed to them by a smaller army.

They are still fleeing, every day. If Russia was losing as you claim, people would feel safe enough to stay. Western Ukraine is supposedly safe, yet the people keep going. Your version doesn't make sense.

 

[HappyJoy]

They are still fleeing, every day. If Russia was losing as you claim, people would feel safe enough to stay. Western Ukraine is supposedly safe, yet the people keep going. Your version doesn't make sense.

Civilians are fleeing when they are bombed by Russians yes. That has nothing to do with Russia's full retreat from around Kiev where they have sustained heavy losses. Also, Ukrainians are beginning to return to that portion of the country since Russia ran with its tail between the legs.

But, really glad you're happy all those innocent people were slaughtered.

 

[badger2]

Just before 2:00 PM this report, not verifiable:

2022 Ap 2 Turkey

 

[HappyJoy]

Just before 2:00 PM this report, not verifiable:

2022 Ap 2 Turkey

I'm sure Russia is telling you everything you want to hear.

 

[badger2]

They are still fleeing, every day. If Russia was losing as you claim, people would feel safe enough to stay. Western Ukraine is supposedly safe, yet the people keep going. Your version doesn't make sense.

In the east, Ukrainian forces on the eastern side of the current battle line (Kharkiv) can't retreat, are exhausted and out of food. There is also rumor of Russian mercenaries about to move in.

 

[badger2]

There is some video footage of the current Kharkiv line. This Frenchman says a number of Ukrainian Army top brass were killed in the rocket strike:


'Here is firing of Iskander missiles filmed in the Kharkiv region which destroyed the Ukrainian headquarters causing 100 deaths on the side of Ukrainian forces.'

 

[FA_Q2]

The more this goes on the more I'm less inclined to think we need to give Putin an out. That is mostly up to Ukraine as they are the ones who will take the extended hit however, if Russia walks away with something that can be called a win, then it's not over. It will never be over.

This is true, if Putin gets a 'win,' but I do not think that Ukraine needs to give Putin a win but rather an out. I think those are very different things even if the line can be somewhat subtle in some cases.

I am less sure that Putin will take the hit all across the board without crossing some very dangerous lines. Would he care if his own destruction also included the destruction of Russia? The key is, IMHO, Putin getting something that allows him to feel like he saved face, even if he did not, AND it is still obvious even to Putin that it was a clear loss.

Donbass and Crimea may very well be that thing.

However, if Russia is forced out of Ukraine (and that is not impossible) then Russia shrinks everywhere. They are already
going to be in the whole for a decade whether they come back with a consolation prize or not. However, what does Belarus, or rebels in Georgia and other satellite states do when the guy that is propping them up loses? How about those far right nationalist assholes like Le Pen in France find that the guy they admire is humiliated? Are they still going to rant about immigrants flooding their countries due at least in part to Putin's activities in Syria?

It may not be impossible but Russia has not brought its entire war machine to bear, at least not as far as I know. And I am not talking about troops on the ground but rather a general scorched earth policy. Even leaving nuclear arsenals out of this entirely and other WMD, Russia has the capability of essentially turning Ukraine into a parking lot with extensive and indiscriminate shelling.

What would our response be in that situation? What could anyone do with the continued threat of nuclear war on the other side of military action?

I hope you are correct, do not get me wrong. Ukraine has certainly positioned themselves for that possibility. I am just somewhat concerned that Russia's fall may very well extend far beyond Russia and its closest neighbors. Even more than that, Russia's outright loss would have far reaching consequences for other nations as well such as China.

I'm not attempting to make any definitive statements as there is at least a perceived risk in pushing Putin too far. I'm just not sure it's a reality when Russian generals (the ones not being killed in Ukraine) are lying to Putin about the status of the war (which could be total bs anyway, but entirely realistic at the same time).

Anyway, does Putin need an out? I'm less and less sure of that.

EDIT: I apologize for the over use of "however".

I would also not make any definitive statements, no one knows the full picture here least of all some anonymous people on a message board but I am concerned that Putin may actually go nuts should he find himself backed to far into a corner. That is the problem with these major powers being run by dictators, to much rests on the whims of very powerful people. I could be wrong and hope that you are correct. If Russia is simply crushed from these actions it would be the best end possible. It may even push Russians themselves to reject the authoritarian government that has placed them in this shitty situation. There is something to be said that this is all on Russia's head as no one invaded them as we did in Afghanistan and Iraq or even sanctions that were brought on by outside meddling as is the case in Iran. There is no one they can point to and blame the degradation of the country on other than the out of control government. Even the media control in Russia cannot cover up the dead bodies coming back from Ukraine and loss of the Russian economy.

And you only used however twice I am far worse most of the time lol.

 

[badger2]

Russia's current Iskander hit at Kharkiv is psychologically devastating, as 100, including Ukrainian top brass, die. Out of fuel and food, unable to retreat and exhausted, Kozin's prediction is coming true:

" As soon as the Russian forces take the city of Mariupol under control, the Kiev regime will fall. The capture of Mariupol and its complete liberation from the Ukrainian neo-nazis is of great importance for the Russian Army."
(Vladimir Kozin, Academy of Military Sciences of the Russian Federation)

 

[Toro]

In the east, Ukrainian forces on the eastern side of the current battle line (Kharkiv) can't retreat, are exhausted and out of food. There is also rumor of Russian mercenaries about to move in.

Russia needs mercenaries because the Russian army sucks.

Sux 2bu troll!