Who really owns Palestine?

[P F Tinmore]

RoccoR, thanks for the list of Israel's activities.

Article 6 : Genocide

For the purpose of this Statute, ‘genocide’ means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.​

Article 7 : Crimes against humanity

1. For the purpose of this Statute, ‘crime against humanity’ means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:

(a) Murder;
(b) Extermination;
(c) Enslavement;
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
(f) Torture;
(g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
(h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
(i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
(j) The crime of apartheid;
(k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great
suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.​

SOURCE: Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court

 

[Hossfly]

RoccoR, thanks for the list of Israel's activities.

Article 6 : Genocide

For the purpose of this Statute, ‘genocide’ means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.​

Article 7 : Crimes against humanity

1. For the purpose of this Statute, ‘crime against humanity’ means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:

(a) Murder;
(b) Extermination;
(c) Enslavement;
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
(f) Torture;
(g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
(h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
(i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
(j) The crime of apartheid;
(k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great
suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.​

SOURCE: Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court

You wish, firefly.

 

[irosie91]

for those who do not know-----several "constitutions" of "islamic" lands---
specifically include clauses which state that SHARIAH LAW----overrides
"international law"----thus allowing the filth of apartheid and genocide in those
lands. in accordance with shariah law. Today---thousands of christian children
are held in slavery ----based on the SHARIAH RIGHT of muslims to confiscate the children
of fathers they murder in the name of 'isa/allah. Shariah overrides
"international law" Today---in accordance with shariah law-----rape of
"rebel women" has been rendered legal in Syria. In 1971---in the war between
east pakistan and west pakistan-----rape of both hindu and muslim women was
rendered legal -----1/4 million women were LEGALLY raped. The koranic scholars
of Khartoum----also declared rape of south sudanese christian women LEGAL IN ISLAMIC
LAW-----

 

[irosie91]

what "ethnic cleansing" ?? In 1948----after years of violence directed against jews
by arab/muslims in the PALESTINE MANDATE-----the palestine mandate was
PARTITIONED. Partitioning lands left over from both the OTTOMAN EMPIRES
and the BRITISH EMPIRES in order to separate people at each others throats
was -----THE CUSTOM OF THE DAY. In 1948 INDIA was also PARTITIONED.

If you ever meet a pakistani or even an Indian muslim-----he will tell you about the
MASSIVE GENOCIDE hindus comitted against muslims I heard all about it more
than 45 years ago when I first ran into muslims from south east asia -------
IN MASSIVE DETAIL AND WITH ENDLESS INDIGNATION AND JOYFUL PREDICTIONS
OF BLOODY REVENGE (the hindu version was
not quite so exciting---more like "lots of people died")

In order to understand the situation of the middle east----you need a bit of a
grasp on history-----not the fairy tale version

btw ----even Cyprus was partitioned ---little calm peaceful cyprus

???

You say "What ethnic cleansing?" and then you talk about all sorts of other situations around the world. The issue in this thread is Palestine and Israel.

Please remember that "ethnic cleansing" doesn't mean "genocide". Genocide can certainly be used in ethnic cleansing, but it is NOT part of the definition.

you are not the GRAND MUFTI of AL CALIPHATE MESSAGE BOARD In fact
"THE ISSUE" is ethnic cleansing and the victims thereof. ----Israel is populated
by the victims of the filth you wish to ignore and serves as a refuge from the filth
you endorse and trivialize. Attempts to exclude the issue of the POPULATIONS
involved in the dispute is ------a tactic of jihado fascists There is no conflict
CONFINED to ----a small protion of the middle east. The world has been made one
by the existence of the "UN" -------but nice try

 

[Billo_Really]

take it to court, not start killing people.

And while you were at court, they took your house, killed your wife and children, then told you you couldn't return home, what then?

What would you do then?

 

[Hollie]

I did not specify a justification. However, every nation has the right to self-defense under Chapter VII, Article 51 of the Charter.

You never posted anything on how the Palestinians became exempt from international law.

You think that the Palestinians have no right to self defense.

You’re perpetually confused, tin-less. Firstly, there are no “Palestinians”. An invented people with an invented identity doesn’t magically confer a status of nationality to squatters.

Secondly, it’s laughable to suggest that continued hostilities on the part of “Palestinian” arab Terrorists can in any wau be defined as self defense.

 

[Phoenall]

take it to court, not start killing people.

And while you were at court, they took your house, killed your wife and children, then told you you couldn't return home, what then?

What would you do then?

That is so typical of those evil Palestinians, why do you defend them so much ?

 

[Billo_Really]

That is so typical of those evil Palestinians, why do you defend them so much ?

That wasn't a defense of Palestinian's, it was a "what would you do in this situation" hypothetical?

 

[Phoenall]

Some evaluations consider the language used --- "wipe them out – man women and child" as a threat communicating "extermination;" which was an expression of intent to commit a Crime Against Humanity (of the highest order). Others evaluations suggest that the intent was to " " a culture on the basis of a nationality, ethnical origin, or the Jewish religious component. This would make the threat more oriented towards "genocide."

In some respects, the intent, and the follow-on demonstration to carry-out that threat (3 wars, multiple intafada's, and Jihadist/Fedayeen acts of terrorism) are subjective.

Most Respectfully,
R

Are you going to suggest that this statement of 1948 is a justification for ethnic cleansing???

These people were having their land stolen from them. They objected in the strongest terms they could muster.

Since then, they lost. Today, 65 YEARS later, Abbas states unequivocally that they are prepared to live in peace within the borders as set, plus negotiated modifications.

What do YOU consider to be justification for ethnic cleansing? Maybe we should just discuss that in the abstract so it doesn't get tangled with religious and ethnic hate. Then, we could move from there to determine cases where YOUR justifications might apply.

Is this like having your land in France stolen from you, or your land on the moon and mars. Because at the end of the day the muslims squatters have as much right to the land of Palestine as you do to land in France and the moon and mars. The land was British, before that Ottoman and the arab muslims were just itinerant workers moving from place to place. They had no ties to the land until the arab league told them to make the false claims. Let them produce valid land title and deeds as the Jewish people can, and not some mass produced rusty keys that fit no locks.
The only ethnic cleansing taking place in the M.E is that of the non muslim sections of population by the likes of the Palestinians and the syrians

 

[Phoenall]

Are you going to suggest that this statement of 1948 is a justification for ethnic cleansing???

These people were having their land stolen from them. They objected in the strongest terms they could muster.

Since then, they lost. Today, 65 YEARS later, Abbas states unequivocally that they are prepared to live in peace within the borders as set, plus negotiated modifications.

What do YOU consider to be justification for ethnic cleansing? Maybe we should just discuss that in the abstract so it doesn't get tangled with religious and ethnic hate. Then, we could move from there to determine cases where YOUR justifications might apply.

How about an atmosphere where people don't have to carry weapons all the time. Christ, the Palis act like they're living in 1870 Dodge City.

You're in favor of gun control?

I'm not sure I understand your point.

SIMPLES it is the palianimals that are the cause of the problem, it is them engaging in ethnic cleansing and genocide of all non muslims. They see no problem in battering a child to death with rocks until it is one of theirs getting the rock treatment. Nor do they see the cold blooded murder of a pregnant woman and her 4 children from ambush as anything other that business as normal. Time for the world to wake up and see were the problems lie and to take steps to bring them under control, and if this means forcing muslims to go and live on the moon then so be it.

 

[Phoenall]

Then why does the Balfour Declaration state a preference for a "Jewish homeland" in "Palestine."

There is a region in the Eastern U.S. known as the Piedmont. It covers 9 states plus the District of Columbia and stretches from New Jersey to Alabama. There is similarly a region called Palestine that stretches from Jordan, Lebanon and Syria to Israel and Egypt. Piedmont is not a state and neither is Palestine. We dont call ourselves "Piedmonters" and those sandfleas in the Mid-East shouldn't call themselves "Palestinian". No such animal.

Palestine has referred to the land between the River and the sea since 1922 at least, Hossie. Syria and Lebanon were carved up by Sykes-Picot and Israel wasn't in existence until 1948. Apparently, Lord Rothschild wasn't up to the challenge of colonizing the Piedmont, yet I can't help wondering if he would have had your support?

And it was never anything else but an area on the map with no definitive borders, indigenous people, capital city or currency. And nothing you have said or argued has changed that description one iota.

Now the squatters have the chance to make a nation for themselves and are throwing it away on illegal demands and fabrications ably assisted by morons like yourself who argue because you don't want an end to the bloodshed

 

[Phoenall]

I did not specify a justification. However, every nation has the right to self-defense under Chapter VII, Article 51 of the Charter.

You never posted anything on how the Palestinians became exempt from international law.

You think that the Palestinians have no right to self defense.

First you need to define self defence and apply your definition to both sides and see just who is defending against who.

A little hint Israel evacuated all Israeli citizens from gaza in August/September 2005 and sustained a continual bombardment of Palestinian weapons of mass destruction for the preceding two years. No return of fire by Israel in this time so who was the defenders and who the aggressors ?

That is the problem in black and white, the number od deaths and injuries are beside the point in this it is the intent that counts.

 

[Billo_Really]

Is this like having your land in France stolen from you, or your land on the moon and mars. Because at the end of the day the muslims squatters have as much right to the land of Palestine as you do to land in France and the moon and mars. The land was British, before that Ottoman and the arab muslims were just itinerant workers moving from place to place. They had no ties to the land until the arab league told them to make the false claims. Let them produce valid land title and deeds as the Jewish people can, and not some mass produced rusty keys that fit no locks.
The only ethnic cleansing taking place in the M.E is that of the non muslim sections of population by the likes of the Palestinians and the syrians

You are completely full of shit!

According to the King Crane Commission report in 1919, jews made up only 10% of the population of Palestine.

The report noted that there is a principle that the wishes of the local population need to be taken into account and that there is widespread anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria, and the holy nature of the land to Christians and Moslems as well as Jews must preclude solely Jewish dominion. It also noted that Jews at that time comprised only 10% of the population of Palestine.

It also concluded a jewish state could not be created in Palestine without a grave trespass on the existing non-Jewish population.

The Commission Report was skeptical of the viability of a Jewish state in "Syria". The logic of the Commission went along the lines that the first principle to be respected must be self-determination. It pointed out that a majority of "Syrians" were against the formation of a Jewish state. It concluded that the only way to establish a viable Jewish state would be with armed force to enforce it. This was precisely what the Commission wanted to avoid, so they dismissed the idea, saying that Zionists anticipated "a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants to Palestine, by various forms of purchase". That said, there would be nothing wrong with Jews coming to "Israel" and simply living as Jewish Syrian citizens, but noted "nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine".

It doesn't matter how many lies you come up with to describe the existing non-Jewish population at that time, nothing changes the fact that they were living there for 2000 years before Zionists showed up and they have rights.

 

[Phoenall]

That is so typical of those evil Palestinians, why do you defend them so much ?

That wasn't a defense of Palestinian's, it was a "what would you do in this situation" hypothetical?

Yet it defined the whole of islam and how it views the law according to allah. If they want it they will take and then use force to stop you taking it back.

 

[Billo_Really]

Yet it defined the whole of islam and how it views the law according to allah. If they want it they will take and then use force to stop you taking it back.

Islam is not an "it", you racist piece of shit!

 

[Hollie]

Yet it defined the whole of islam and how it views the law according to allah. If they want it they will take and then use force to stop you taking it back.

Islam is not an "it", you racist piece of shit!

Islam is a "race"?

 

[Phoenall]

Is this like having your land in France stolen from you, or your land on the moon and mars. Because at the end of the day the muslims squatters have as much right to the land of Palestine as you do to land in France and the moon and mars. The land was British, before that Ottoman and the arab muslims were just itinerant workers moving from place to place. They had no ties to the land until the arab league told them to make the false claims. Let them produce valid land title and deeds as the Jewish people can, and not some mass produced rusty keys that fit no locks.
The only ethnic cleansing taking place in the M.E is that of the non muslim sections of population by the likes of the Palestinians and the syrians

You are completely full of shit!

According to the King Crane Commission report in 1919, jews made up only 10% of the population of Palestine.

Totally irrelevant as it has nothing to do with the owners disposal of the land. The 10% of Jews owned 40% of the land with the muslims owning less than 5%. So why should the muslims get the lions share.

The report noted that there is a principle that the wishes of the local population need to be taken into account and that there is widespread anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria, and the holy nature of the land to Christians and Moslems as well as Jews must preclude solely Jewish dominion. It also noted that Jews at that time comprised only 10% of the population of Palestine.

It also concluded a jewish state could not be created in Palestine without a grave trespass on the existing non-Jewish population.

And it also showed that the majority of occupiers of Jerusalem were Jewish, and yet the UN decided to allow the muslims to take control. The Jews allowed the muslims access to shared historic religious sites only to find their sections defiled after muslim incursion. Let the muslims buy the land from its last legal owners, or better put the land up for auction and see who will finish owning the land.

The Commission Report was skeptical of the viability of a Jewish state in "Syria". The logic of the Commission went along the lines that the first principle to be respected must be self-determination. It pointed out that a majority of "Syrians" were against the formation of a Jewish state. It concluded that the only way to establish a viable Jewish state would be with armed force to enforce it. This was precisely what the Commission wanted to avoid, so they dismissed the idea, saying that Zionists anticipated "a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants to Palestine, by various forms of purchase". That said, there would be nothing wrong with Jews coming to "Israel" and simply living as Jewish Syrian citizens, but noted "nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine".

It doesn't matter how many lies you come up with to describe the existing non-Jewish population at that time, nothing changes the fact that they were living there for 2000 years before Zionists showed up and they have rights.

So were is the proof that muslims that never existed before 627 CE had a 2000 year history in Palestine and the Jews who owned the land can not trace their occupation back further. And use the UN charters rule of no land can be gained by war in your answer

 

[Shaarona]

Is this like having your land in France stolen from you, or your land on the moon and mars. Because at the end of the day the muslims squatters have as much right to the land of Palestine as you do to land in France and the moon and mars. The land was British, before that Ottoman and the arab muslims were just itinerant workers moving from place to place. They had no ties to the land until the arab league told them to make the false claims. Let them produce valid land title and deeds as the Jewish people can, and not some mass produced rusty keys that fit no locks.
The only ethnic cleansing taking place in the M.E is that of the non muslim sections of population by the likes of the Palestinians and the syrians

You are completely full of shit!

According to the King Crane Commission report in 1919, jews made up only 10% of the population of Palestine.

Totally irrelevant as it has nothing to do with the owners disposal of the land. The 10% of Jews owned 40% of the land with the muslims owning less than 5%. So why should the muslims get the lions share.

It also concluded a jewish state could not be created in Palestine without a grave trespass on the existing non-Jewish population.

And it also showed that the majority of occupiers of Jerusalem were Jewish, and yet the UN decided to allow the muslims to take control. The Jews allowed the muslims access to shared historic religious sites only to find their sections defiled after muslim incursion. Let the muslims buy the land from its last legal owners, or better put the land up for auction and see who will finish owning the land.

The Commission Report was skeptical of the viability of a Jewish state in "Syria". The logic of the Commission went along the lines that the first principle to be respected must be self-determination. It pointed out that a majority of "Syrians" were against the formation of a Jewish state. It concluded that the only way to establish a viable Jewish state would be with armed force to enforce it. This was precisely what the Commission wanted to avoid, so they dismissed the idea, saying that Zionists anticipated "a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants to Palestine, by various forms of purchase". That said, there would be nothing wrong with Jews coming to "Israel" and simply living as Jewish Syrian citizens, but noted "nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine".

It doesn't matter how many lies you come up with to describe the existing non-Jewish population at that time, nothing changes the fact that they were living there for 2000 years before Zionists showed up and they have rights.

So were is the proof that muslims that never existed before 627 CE had a 2000 year history in Palestine and the Jews who owned the land can not trace their occupation back further. And use the UN charters rule of no land can be gained by war in your answer

Arabs were in Palestine long before Islam.

And there were 10,000 Jews in Damascus by 70 BC.

 

[Phoenall]

Yet it defined the whole of islam and how it views the law according to allah. If they want it they will take and then use force to stop you taking it back.

Islam is not an "it", you racist piece of shit!

You really need to learn about religion as islam is an it. It is a religion and nothing more, a vile evil bloodthirsty religion that see violence as the answer to everthing but still just a religion

You cant be racist towards a religion that has all races as members so your screech of fury at being shown you support and defend the most vile, evil, violent and bloodthirsty religion ever invented.

 

[Shaarona]

Yet it defined the whole of islam and how it views the law according to allah. If they want it they will take and then use force to stop you taking it back.

Islam is not an "it", you racist piece of shit!

You really need to learn about religion as islam is an it. It is a religion and nothing more, a vile evil bloodthirsty religion that see violence as the answer to everthing but still just a religion

You cant be racist towards a religion that has all races as members so your screech of fury at being shown you support and defend the most vile, evil, violent and bloodthirsty religion ever invented.

Christianity and Judaism also have violent ... bloodthirsty periods.