Who really owns Palestine?

[Billo_Really]

A cop out answer by a RABID RACIST NAZI JEWHATING ANTI SEMITIC muslims are not a race they followers of the most vile, evil bloodthirsty psychopathic religion ever to be invented. They are even worse than the excess of the Marxist when they starved 10 million Ukrainian peasants to death.

The killing machine that is islam has murdered hundreds of billions of innocents since its invention in 623CE. And the killing still goes on today.

Why don't you take your own life, you fuckin' loser and give us all a break?

 

[WillReadmore]

First - the "ethnic cleansing," as in the forced relocation of the Jews from England (1290), France (1306), Hungary (1349-1360), Provence (1394 and 1490), Austria (1421), Lithuania (1445), Cracow (1494), Portugal (1497), is a much different thing than the "genocide" Holocaust of WWII or the threat posed by the Arabs to threat to "wipe them out." Given the choice of "forced relocation" and "mass extermination" --- it is obvious which of the two is more horrific.

Why are you making these statements?

Do you see these as justifying Israeli ethnic cleansing operations of today?

As to self defense, what would you suggest should be the limits to Palestinian self defense within its own borders when a foreign power is forcibly stealing private property for personal aggrandizement and driving off its citizens in ethnic cleansing operations?

 

[irosie91]

First - the "ethnic cleansing," as in the forced relocation of the Jews from England (1290), France (1306), Hungary (1349-1360), Provence (1394 and 1490), Austria (1421), Lithuania (1445), Cracow (1494), Portugal (1497), is a much different thing than the "genocide" Holocaust of WWII or the threat posed by the Arabs to threat to "wipe them out." Given the choice of "forced relocation" and "mass extermination" --- it is obvious which of the two is more horrific.

Why are you making these statements?

Do you see these as justifying Israeli ethnic cleansing operations of today?

As to self defense, what would you suggest should be the limits to Palestinian self defense within its own borders when a foreign power is forcibly stealing private property for personal aggrandizement and driving off its citizens in ethnic cleansing operations?

You have some examples of this "FORCIBLY STEALING PRIVATE PROPERTY"
thing. ?-----to which "foreign power" do you refer? I am delighted that you
admit that jews own Hebron lock, stock and barrel.-------btw how is "private
property" attained in your world

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I did not say that the Palestinians were exempt from any international law or protections.

I did not specify a justification. However, every nation has the right to self-defense under Chapter VII, Article 51 of the Charter.

You never posted anything on how the Palestinians became exempt from international law.

You think that the Palestinians have no right to self defense.

(COMMENT)

It was the Hostile Arab Palestinian and Arab League Armies that made the threat of "genocide" (the most serious of crimes against humanity) in January 1948 and attacked first in May 1948.

The Palestinians were not defending sovereignty, they were attempting to defy the UN Resolution on the Partition.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[WillReadmore]

First - the "ethnic cleansing," as in the forced relocation of the Jews from England (1290), France (1306), Hungary (1349-1360), Provence (1394 and 1490), Austria (1421), Lithuania (1445), Cracow (1494), Portugal (1497), is a much different thing than the "genocide" Holocaust of WWII or the threat posed by the Arabs to threat to "wipe them out." Given the choice of "forced relocation" and "mass extermination" --- it is obvious which of the two is more horrific.

Why are you making these statements?

Do you see these as justifying Israeli ethnic cleansing operations of today?

As to self defense, what would you suggest should be the limits to Palestinian self defense within its own borders when a foreign power is forcibly stealing private property for personal aggrandizement and driving off its citizens in ethnic cleansing operations?

You have some examples of this "FORCIBLY STEALING PRIVATE PROPERTY"
thing. ?-----to which "foreign power" do you refer? I am delighted that you
admit that jews own Hebron lock, stock and barrel.-------btw how is "private
property" attained in your world

Good Lord! There isn't some sort of doubt about this. You can find cases of this reported in newspapers around the world (including in Israel!) taking place throughout the period of the Israeli occupation.

Bulldozers move in on East Jerusalem, and another 1500 settlement units are set for approval | Mondoweiss
Jewish settlers move into house after Israeli police evict Palestinian family | World news | theguardian.com
Palestinian homes abandoned in flight across Israel's wall | The Electronic Intifada
Demolition of Palestinians Homes throughout the Jordan Valley ? Validated Independent News How is driving Palestinians from the Jordon Valley a security advantage for Israel? And, by what right are they stealing THAT land???

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJf_Oe0az7o]Israeli settlers to occupy Palestinian home in Hebron al Khalil - YouTube[/ame] Israelis stealing homes and ethnic cleansing in Hebron.
Palestinian Made Homeless by Israel Ordered to Move Out of Cave! « Socio-Economics History Blog Man being evicted from a CAVE on his land after his house was bulldozed by Israelis.

How many do you need?

 

[WillReadmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I did not say that the Palestinians were exempt from any international law or protections.

I did not specify a justification. However, every nation has the right to self-defense under Chapter VII, Article 51 of the Charter.

You never posted anything on how the Palestinians became exempt from international law.

You think that the Palestinians have no right to self defense.

(COMMENT)

It was the Hostile Arab Palestinian and Arab League Armies that made the threat of "genocide" (the most serious of crimes against humanity) in January 1948 and attacked first in May 1948.

The Palestinians were not defending sovereignty, they were attempting to defy the UN Resolution on the Partition.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, 65 YEARS later this justifies Israel breaking international law with ethnic cleansing operations against the Palestinian people in their own nation?

And, then you say "Most Respectfully"???

 

[irosie91]

Why are you making these statements?

Do you see these as justifying Israeli ethnic cleansing operations of today?

As to self defense, what would you suggest should be the limits to Palestinian self defense within its own borders when a foreign power is forcibly stealing private property for personal aggrandizement and driving off its citizens in ethnic cleansing operations?

You have some examples of this "FORCIBLY STEALING PRIVATE PROPERTY"
thing. ?-----to which "foreign power" do you refer? I am delighted that you
admit that jews own Hebron lock, stock and barrel.-------btw how is "private
property" attained in your world

Good Lord! There isn't some sort of doubt about this. You can find cases of this reported in newspapers around the world (including in Israel!) taking place throughout the period of the Israeli occupation.

Bulldozers move in on East Jerusalem, and another 1500 settlement units are set for approval | Mondoweiss
Jewish settlers move into house after Israeli police evict Palestinian family | World news | theguardian.com
Palestinian homes abandoned in flight across Israel's wall | The Electronic Intifada
Demolition of Palestinians Homes throughout the Jordan Valley ? Validated Independent News How is driving Palestinians from the Jordon Valley a security advantage for Israel? And, by what right are they stealing THAT land???

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJf_Oe0az7o]Israeli settlers to occupy Palestinian home in Hebron al Khalil - YouTube[/ame] Israelis stealing homes and ethnic cleansing in Hebron.
Palestinian Made Homeless by Israel Ordered to Move Out of Cave! « Socio-Economics History Blog Man being evicted from a CAVE on his land after his house was bulldozed by Israelis.

How many do you need?

You got something to back up those stories? How did arab muslims come to own
land in Hebron? How did they come to own homes elsewhere in samaria? I once
bought a house. It had been taken by the city----for back taxes. When I got it---
there were people living in it-------I told them to leave-------did I steal the house from
them? How did the "MAN" to whom you refer come to OWN a cave? what made
the land upon which the cave was located HIS LAND? You really have to
READMORE.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I did not say that the Palestinians were exempt from any international law or protections.

You never posted anything on how the Palestinians became exempt from international law.

You think that the Palestinians have no right to self defense.

(COMMENT)

It was the Hostile Arab Palestinian and Arab League Armies that made the threat of "genocide" (the most serious of crimes against humanity) in January 1948 and attacked first in May 1948.

The Palestinians were not defending sovereignty, they were attempting to defy the UN Resolution on the Partition.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, 65 YEARS later this justifies Israel breaking international law with ethnic cleansing operations against the Palestinian people in their own nation?

And, then you say "Most Respectfully"???

There never were (and there are not now), any "Palestinian" people or a "Palestinian" nation.

 

[WillReadmore]

You have some examples of this "FORCIBLY STEALING PRIVATE PROPERTY"
thing. ?-----to which "foreign power" do you refer? I am delighted that you
admit that jews own Hebron lock, stock and barrel.-------btw how is "private
property" attained in your world

Good Lord! There isn't some sort of doubt about this. You can find cases of this reported in newspapers around the world (including in Israel!) taking place throughout the period of the Israeli occupation.

Bulldozers move in on East Jerusalem, and another 1500 settlement units are set for approval | Mondoweiss
Jewish settlers move into house after Israeli police evict Palestinian family | World news | theguardian.com
Palestinian homes abandoned in flight across Israel's wall | The Electronic Intifada
Demolition of Palestinians Homes throughout the Jordan Valley ? Validated Independent News How is driving Palestinians from the Jordon Valley a security advantage for Israel? And, by what right are they stealing THAT land???

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJf_Oe0az7o]Israeli settlers to occupy Palestinian home in Hebron al Khalil - YouTube[/ame] Israelis stealing homes and ethnic cleansing in Hebron.
Palestinian Made Homeless by Israel Ordered to Move Out of Cave! « Socio-Economics History Blog Man being evicted from a CAVE on his land after his house was bulldozed by Israelis.

How many do you need?

You got something to back up those stories? How did arab muslims come to own
land in Hebron? How did they come to own homes elsewhere in samaria? I once
bought a house. It had been taken by the city----for back taxes. When I got it---
there were people living in it-------I told them to leave-------did I steal the house from
them? How did the "MAN" to whom you refer come to OWN a cave? what made
the land upon which the cave was located HIS LAND? You really have to
READMORE.

The cases I listed are easily findable from multiple sources on the internet.

If you want to back up your allegations, go right ahead.

 

[WillReadmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I did not say that the Palestinians were exempt from any international law or protections.


(COMMENT)

It was the Hostile Arab Palestinian and Arab League Armies that made the threat of "genocide" (the most serious of crimes against humanity) in January 1948 and attacked first in May 1948.

The Palestinians were not defending sovereignty, they were attempting to defy the UN Resolution on the Partition.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, 65 YEARS later this justifies Israel breaking international law with ethnic cleansing operations against the Palestinian people in their own nation?

And, then you say "Most Respectfully"???

There never were (and there are not now), any "Palestinian" people or a "Palestinian" nation.

The UN recognizes Palestine as do more than 120 nations. By Palestinians I mean citizens of that nation.

Suggesting Palestine doesn't exist is just as stupid as saying Israel doesn't exist.

Plus, ethnic cleansing is a criminal activity regardless of national borders.

 

[aris2chat]

Increase housing in towns that will be part of a land trade deal it should not bring a standstill to talks.
Hard as it is for Israel haters, not all the settlements were illegal, not will they all be evacuated to this imagined ceasefire line. PA has already agreed that there would be a land trade for the larger towns west of the wall. Arabs Israelis do not want to be part of any land swap, they want to remain Israelis. Jordan wants Israel to retain security of the Jordan Valley and border crossings.

 

[RoccoR]

WillReadmore, et al,

Two points here.

So, 65 YEARS later this justifies Israel breaking international law with ethnic cleansing operations against the Palestinian people in their own nation?

And, then you say "Most Respectfully"???

(COMMENT)

The first point is that I do not believe that the current security measures being taken by the Israelis are anywhere near the intent of "ethnic cleansing." I believe that they are non-lethal measures to displace Hostile Arab Palestinians from posing proximity dangers to non-hostile citizens and settlers. In any event, the issues are subject to the Oslo I and II Accords (Oslo I and Oslo II) as Article V (O-I) Permanent Status Negotiations and Article XI (O-II) (not a violation of International Law). And that it was agreed that the mechanism for settling the disputes was through the Liaison Committee and the Arbitration Committee; not through open hostilities as the method of choice for the Palestinian.

The second point is that I try to be courteous and civil even in times of discord and disagreement. My respect is to you for the exchange in a civil discussion, even if we do not agree on the salient points. My respect is not contingent on our agreement, but to the conduct of our presentation of respective perspectives. This is separate and distinct from the behavioral conduct of the Palestinian People and the way in which the have established their reputation of war, insurgency and terrorism, as a documented Past Pattern of criminal behavior in the Machiavellian way they are establishing Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; regionally and beyond.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[WillReadmore]

The first point is that I do not believe that the current security measures being taken by the Israelis are anywhere near the intent of "ethnic cleansing." I believe that they are non-lethal measures to displace Hostile Arab Palestinians from posing proximity dangers to non-hostile citizens and settlers. In any event, the issues are subject to the Oslo I and II Accords (Oslo I and Oslo II) as Article V (O-I) Permanent Status Negotiations and Article XI (O-II) (not a violation of International Law). And that it was agreed that the mechanism for settling the disputes was through the Liaison Committee and the Arbitration Committee; not through open hostilities as the method of choice for the Palestinian.

The second point is that I try to be courteous and civil even in times of discord and disagreement. My respect is to you for the exchange in a civil discussion, even if we do not agree on the salient points. My respect is not contingent on our agreement, but to the conduct of our presentation of respective perspectives. This is separate and distinct from the behavioral conduct of the Palestinian People and the way in which the have established their reputation of war, insurgency and terrorism, as a documented Past Pattern of criminal behavior in the Machiavellian way they are establishing Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; regionally and beyond.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your first point can not possibly explain the military cleansing of Palestinians from the arable land along the Jordan river. In fact, Israel is currently moving to deny Palestinians the right to take water from that river - while allowing Israelis to do so.

Beyond that, the route of the wall clearly points to land acquisition, not to security. And, if security were the concern, there would be resistance by Israel to new exclusive settlements in regions populated by Palestinians sprinkled as they are throughout West Bank.

Another specific example of this is the large park that Israel declared for East Jerusalem. A park! Using that as justification, they bulldozed the houses of Palestinians living there.

There just is no justification for these actions. They can not be claimed to be for the purpose of security of Israel.

Furthermore, pointing to the various organizations that have totally failed to slow the ethnic cleansing is disingenuous and highly irritating. It's obvious from the ongoing ethnic cleansing that none of the legal vehicles that exist have hampered Israel's ethnic cleansing activity anywhere throughout West Bank. And, the criminal activity here is being perpetrated by Israel - NOT by the UN or one of these committees you suggest.

And, if you want respect, promote something other than criminal activity. Being polite to me is irrelevant.

 

[Hollie]

So, 65 YEARS later this justifies Israel breaking international law with ethnic cleansing operations against the Palestinian people in their own nation?

And, then you say "Most Respectfully"???

There never were (and there are not now), any "Palestinian" people or a "Palestinian" nation.

The UN recognizes Palestine as do more than 120 nations. By Palestinians I mean citizens of that nation.

Suggesting Palestine doesn't exist is just as stupid as saying Israel doesn't exist.

Plus, ethnic cleansing is a criminal activity regardless of national borders.

You somehow missed the part that "Palestine" being recognized as a nation is pointless when no such nation exists or has existed.

 

[Shaarona]

There never were (and there are not now), any "Palestinian" people or a "Palestinian" nation.

The UN recognizes Palestine as do more than 120 nations. By Palestinians I mean citizens of that nation.

Suggesting Palestine doesn't exist is just as stupid as saying Israel doesn't exist.

Plus, ethnic cleansing is a criminal activity regardless of national borders.

You somehow missed the part that "Palestine" being recognized as a nation is pointless when no such nation exists or has existed.

There was a time when Italy and Germany didn't exist..

 

[WillReadmore]

There never were (and there are not now), any "Palestinian" people or a "Palestinian" nation.

The UN recognizes Palestine as do more than 120 nations. By Palestinians I mean citizens of that nation.

Suggesting Palestine doesn't exist is just as stupid as saying Israel doesn't exist.

Plus, ethnic cleansing is a criminal activity regardless of national borders.

You somehow missed the part that "Palestine" being recognized as a nation is pointless when no such nation exists or has existed.

You're free to take that up with the UN and over 120 nations who disagree with you.

 

[RoccoR]

WillReadmore, et al,

Humm, I don't promote criminal activity.

And, if you want respect, promote something other than criminal activity.

(COMMENT)

I did not promote the propriety of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in the use of armed force to achieve through force what they could not achieve through peaceful means.

I did not promote the threat of genocide in an attempt to defy the attempt by the UN to implement the approved recommendation of partition.

I did not approve advocate of international terrorism against non-participants and non-combatants.

• Munich Olympics massacre (1972)
• Piracy of the MS Achille Lauro (1985) and the killing of the wheel chair bound Leon Kinghoffer.
• Dizengoff Street bus bombing (1994) and the death of 22 Israelis.
• TWA Flight 741 from Frankfurt am Main (a Boeing 707) and Swissair Flight 100 from Zürich-Kloten Airport (a Douglas DC-8) landed at Dawson's Field, a remote desert airstrip near Zarka, Jordan, formerly used as a British Royal Air Force base.[1][2]
• The hijacking of El Al Flight 219 from Amsterdam (another 707) was foiled: hijacker Patrick Argüello was shot and killed, and his partner Leila Khaled was subdued and turned over to British authorities in London. Two PFLP hijackers who were prevented from boarding the El Al flight instead hijacked Pan Am Flight 93, a Boeing 747, diverting the large plane first to Beirut and then to Cairo rather than the small Jordanian airstrip.
• A fifth plane, BOAC Flight 775, a Vickers VC10 coming from Bahrain, was hijacked on 9 September by a PFLP sympathizer and brought to Dawson's Field in order to pressure the British into free Khaled.

This is not to say that the Palestinians do not have some very legitimate grievances to claim; they do. But the Palestinians are suppose to refrain from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens. That is just as much a part of the international law as any other codification. But the Palestinians have been in open defiance using the exact forces they claim Israel is using.

C. Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.

SOURCE: A/AC.21/9 S/676 16 February 1948

Being polite to me is irrelevant.

(COMMENT)

None the less, a demonstration of politeness, etiquette, and good manners is a characteristic that has an potential for impact. Being polite to other people, allows me to project the image that my counterpart is respected; whether or not they have earned that respect; that their views are valued.

Without regard to the matter of relevance, my politeness, etiquette, and good manners, even in the face of an opponent that is of the opposite polarity, is a reflection of my character. You may reject it, and that is at your discretion.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hossfly]

First - the "ethnic cleansing," as in the forced relocation of the Jews from England (1290), France (1306), Hungary (1349-1360), Provence (1394 and 1490), Austria (1421), Lithuania (1445), Cracow (1494), Portugal (1497), is a much different thing than the "genocide" Holocaust of WWII or the threat posed by the Arabs to threat to "wipe them out." Given the choice of "forced relocation" and "mass extermination" --- it is obvious which of the two is more horrific.

Why are you making these statements?

Do you see these as justifying Israeli ethnic cleansing operations of today?

As to self defense, what would you suggest should be the limits to Palestinian self defense within its own borders when a foreign power is forcibly stealing private property for personal aggrandizement and driving off its citizens in ethnic cleansing operations?

Why do you excuse Islamic terrorists and don't even think about saying you dont?

 

[WillReadmore]

I did not promote the propriety of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) in the use of armed force to achieve through force what they could not achieve through peaceful means.

I did not promote the threat of genocide in an attempt to defy the attempt by the UN to implement the approved recommendation of partition.

I did not approve advocate of international terrorism against non-participants and non-combatants.

• Munich Olympics massacre (1972)
• Piracy of the MS Achille Lauro (1985) and the killing of the wheel chair bound Leon Kinghoffer.
• Dizengoff Street bus bombing (1994) and the death of 22 Israelis.
• TWA Flight 741 from Frankfurt am Main (a Boeing 707) and Swissair Flight 100 from Zürich-Kloten Airport (a Douglas DC-8) landed at Dawson's Field, a remote desert airstrip near Zarka, Jordan, formerly used as a British Royal Air Force base.[1][2]
• The hijacking of El Al Flight 219 from Amsterdam (another 707) was foiled: hijacker Patrick Argüello was shot and killed, and his partner Leila Khaled was subdued and turned over to British authorities in London. Two PFLP hijackers who were prevented from boarding the El Al flight instead hijacked Pan Am Flight 93, a Boeing 747, diverting the large plane first to Beirut and then to Cairo rather than the small Jordanian airstrip.
• A fifth plane, BOAC Flight 775, a Vickers VC10 coming from Bahrain, was hijacked on 9 September by a PFLP sympathizer and brought to Dawson's Field in order to pressure the British into free Khaled.

This is not to say that the Palestinians do not have some very legitimate grievances to claim; they do. But the Palestinians are suppose to refrain from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities and to take appropriate practical measures to ensure that our respective territories are not used for terrorist installations or training camps, or for the preparation or organization of terrorist acts intended to be committed against other States or their citizens. That is just as much a part of the international law as any other codification. But the Palestinians have been in open defiance using the exact forces they claim Israel is using.

I'm less than impressed by lists of crimes which you happened to not promote. In general, I would see that as a base level expectation.

Nor do I see that list as justifying support for some other crime you don't list.

And, no, Palestinians are not stealing the land of Israel, nor are they carrying out ethnic cleansing operations against Israel - your claims of that are bizarre.

As for terrorism, Abbas has made huge progress against terrorism, making you claims along this line incredibly weak. Even Israel has recognized the progress Abbas has made, and demonstrates that awareness by having fairly recently turned over significant security duties to Palestinian authorities.

Once again, I'll ask you - what level of self defense is Palestine allowed when it comes to the criminal ethnic cleansing action taking place inside its borders?

How SHOULD Palestine respond to these crimes? How long should they wait as passive victims for progress in legal steps against these crimes?

Who will slow the criminal behavior of Israel?

 

[Billo_Really]

Humm, I don't promote criminal activity.

You defend it.