Why A "Good Guy with a Gun" is Bullshit

NoTeaPartyPleez said:
2aguy said:
Hey moron....here are two good guys with guns stopping and holding four shooters for police....they were not shot....

Good Guys With Guns Intervene in Maine Walmart Shooting

Two good guys with a gun intervened in a shooting altercation at a Walmart in Maine last weekend.

According to WCSH in Portland, Maine, two bystanders legally carrying handguns intervened in a shooting situation on Sunday afternoon at the parking lot of a Walmart in Augusta.





Four suspects were taken into custody and charged with an array of offenses, including reckless conduct with a gun, aggravated assault, and drug trafficking, according to police.

Nobody was injured in the shooting and all parties denied medical assistance.

WCSH reports:

Police said the suspects involved were sitting in vehicles parked next to each other when an altercation arose. The occupants of one vehicle fired at the occupants of the other, which resulted in a return in gunfire.

When the shooting stopped, police said one suspect exited their vehicle to confront the occupants of the other vehicle. This is when two bystanders, who were legally carrying, interfered and stopped the incident, police said.
Click to expand...

That's ONE. Wow, I'm impressed.

Now here's all the mass shootings in just the last few months: (The numbers to the right of the address are number killed and number wounded).

June 25, 2016 Illinois Chicago 1400 block of W. 114th Place 0 4
June 24, 2016 Kansas Kansas City N. 3rd and Walker 0 4
June 24, 2016 Maryland District Heights 3100 block of Orleans Avenue 3 2
June 24, 2016 Connecticut Hartford Brook and Winter Street 0 5

May 11, 2016 Alabama Birmingham 1400 block of 21st Street N 1 4
May 11, 2016 Illinois Chicago 7100 block of South State Street 0 5
May 8, 2016 Texas Austin 8600 block of North Lamar 1 3
May 6, 2016 Michigan Detroit 12300 Block of Gratiot 1 4
May 6, 2016 Alabama Montgomery 1300 block of Clay Street 1 3
May 6, 2016 Maryland Bethesda 7101 Democracy Blvd 3 3
May 5, 2016 Louisiana Shreveport 300 block of North Thomas Drive 2 6
May 5, 2016 Florida Miami 2108 NW 19th Terrace 1 3
May 4, 2016 Minnesota Minneapolis 16th Avenue North and Newton Avenue North 1 7
May 1, 2016 Tennessee Murfreesboro 1955 Old Castle Drive 0 5
April 29, 2016 Missouri Saint Louis (Ferguson) 400 block of Dade Avenue 0 4
April 29, 2016 California Oakland 3200 block of San Pablo Avenue 0 5
April 27, 2016 Louisiana Baton Rouge Kerrit Drive 1 3
April 27, 2016 Mississippi Kilmichael Pecan Drive 3 1
June 22, 2016 Washington Lacey 500 block of Dutterow Road 3 1
June 22, 2016 Georgia Dekalb (county) Lancashire Drive and Central Drive 1 4
June 22, 2016 Illinois Chicago 3100 block of West Warren 0 4
June 21, 2016 New Jersey Willingboro Mosshill Lane 0 4
June 21, 2016 Kentucky Louisville 2802 Rodman Street 2 2
June 19, 2016 Virginia Roanoke 2328 Melrose Avenue 0 4
June 18, 2016 Virginia Exmore Fredrick Douglas Road 1 3
June 18, 2016 Georgia Waycross 2625 Arnold Ct 2 2
June 18, 2016 Illinois Chicago East 79th Street and South Escanaba Avenue 0 4
June 14, 2016 Delaware Wilmington South Van Buren and Elm streets 0 4
June 14, 2016 California Oakland 1301 Franklin Street 1 3
June 13, 2016 California Fresno East El Monte Way and Recreation Avenue 0 4
June 9, 2016 Florida Fort Walton Beach Landview Drive 0 4
June 8, 2016 Massachusetts Boston 66 Washington St 1 3
June 8, 2016 District of Columbia Washington North Capitol Street and New York Avenue NW 0 4
June 6, 2016 California Visalia 33 60 South Fairway Street 0 4
June 5, 2016 Minnesota Minneapolis 8th and Humboldt Avenue N. 0 4
June 5, 2016 Florida Cape Coral 2600 block of Skyline Boulevard S 3 3
June 5, 2016 New York Brooklyn Mermaid Ave and 16th St. 0 4
June 5, 2016 Arizona Phoenix 8152 N Black Canyon Hwy 2 5
June 4, 2016 Colorado Denver 3600 block of Hudson Street 3 1
May 31, 2016 Illinois Chicago 3300 block of West Huron Street 0 4
May 31, 2016 Indiana Fort Wayne 6600 block of Pawawna Drive 0 4
May 30, 2016 Maryland Baltimore 500 block of East 43rd Street 0 5
May 30, 2016 California Sacramento 3900 block of 44th 0 5
May 29, 2016 Nevada Las Vegas 200 block of North 3rd Street 0 4
May 29, 2016 Texas Houston 13210 Memorial Drive 2 6
May 29, 2016 New Jersey Trenton 600 block of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard 0 6
May 29, 2016 Indiana Indianapolis 300 block of South Meridian Street 0 4
April 26, 2016 Maryland District Heights (Forestville) 6500 block of Hil-Mar Drive 1 4
April 25, 2016 Tennessee Nashville 400 Charlotte Avenue 0 4
April 25, 2016 Florida Miami 1506 Northwest 70th Street 0 5
April 24, 2016 Virginia Halifax 1055 L P Bailey Memorial Hwy 0 5
April 24, 2016 Illinois Chicago (Englewood) 2000 block of West 68th Place 2 3
April 24, 2016 Colorado Denver 1400 Block of 14th Street 0 4
April 23, 2016 Nevada Las Vegas 1650 South Hollywood Boulevard 1 3
April 23, 2016 Alabama Auburn 1200 block of Lee Road 83 3 1
April 23, 2016 Kansas Topeka 3732 S.W. Topeka Boulevard 1 4
April 23, 2016 New York New York (Manhattan) West 141st Street and Edgecombe Avenue 0 4
April 22, 2016 Ohio Piketon 4077 Union Hill Road 8 0
April 22, 2016 Georgia Appling 3162 Johnson Drive 6 0
April 21, 2016 Maryland Baltimore 4800 block of Frankford Avenue 0 4
April 19, 2016 Alabama Blountsville 81551 Us Highway 278 1 4
April 19, 2016 Illinois Chicago 2700 block of West 53rd Street 1 3
April 19, 2016 Illinois Chicago 1400 block of West 84th Street 1 4
April 18, 2016 California Long Beach 1200 block of E. 17th Street 1 3
April 17, 2016 Pennsylvania Philadelphia 600 block of Westmoreland Street 3 1
April 17, 2016 South Carolina Pelzer 200 block of Eastview Road 1 3
April 17, 2016 Texas Edinburg 5021 W St Hwy 107 1 6
April 16, 2016 Michigan Detroit 9500 block of Oakland 1 4
April 16, 2016 Florida Orlando 1100 block of Conley Street 2 4
April 16, 2016 Alabama Enterprise Baxter Street 0 4
April 14, 2016 New Jersey Orange Taylor Street 1 3
April 10, 2016 Wisconsin Milwaukee 76th and Sheridan 1 3
April 10, 2016 California Los Angeles 84th Street and Towne Avenue 0 4
April 9, 2016 Tennessee Memphis Mt Moriah Road and Ridgeway Road 0 4
April 9, 2016 Alabama Anniston West 15th Street and Crawford Avenue 0 4
April 9, 2016 New Mexico Albuquerque 2600 block of Mesa Drive SE 0 4
April 7, 2016 Illinois Chicago 2200 block of East 70th Place 0 4
Click to expand...


And another story from your link...and another reason not to trust the Gun Violence Policy center......they lie....

Memorial Day weekend closes with 69 shot in Chicago, many of them on West Side

The rest of the weekend shootings were scattered across Chicago. They happened as far north as West Rogers Park and northwest as Jefferson Park and as far south as the West Pullman neighborhood. The violence centered on the West Side, though. Seven of the shooting incidents on the West Side had more than one victim.
 
martybegan said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
martybegan said:
Your premise is wrong at the most basic level. The correct mode of action for a CCW holder is to hold in place, and if the shooter tries to enter the area he controls, take him out.

Private CCW holders can be compared to a minefield, what you are hoping for is the active shooter doesn't expect armed resistance and the CCW holder can get some shots in before the active shooter realizes he is being confronted.
Click to expand...



If you hold in place and you hear someone coming down a blind hallway, do you shout out and ask if they are the police, the shooter or another good guy? If it's the shooter, you're shit out of luck, aren't you? If it's the police they may not believe you are a good guy. They may think you're the shooter trying to save his sorry ass.

And if you hold in place but can hear the shooter actively killing people in another part of the building, what do you do? Your gun becomes a joke to the people who are dying.

So you should check YOUR premise for reality.
Click to expand...

Considering the Police usually take more than 10-15 minutes at BEST to provide an actual response, the initial time window usually consists of two parties, the shooter and the potential victims.

Your main issue is that you assume everything has to go perfectly, and if it doesn't than having a CCW onsite is worthless. What you ignore is that there is no "good" solution to these situations, only less bad solutions. And I would rather take a chance with someone being armed and able to fight back, than to have everyone disarmed, and trying to escape, lock themselves down, or find improvised weapons for a last stand.
Click to expand...

Good analogy but realistically?????
In a mass shooting or terrorist attack.......... Its chaotic and massive confusions. If you are next to me with a gun or I ran into you with a gun. Lord forgive me what I'm going to do with you. How am I supposed to know that you are a good or bad guy?
When you hear the first shot...... Instinc is you dock, run with the crowd. Don't tell me you are going against the crowd and start shooting.
 
Fair&Balanced said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
Fair&Balanced said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
Fair&Balanced said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
That's ONE. Wow, I'm impressed.

Now here's all the mass shootings in just the last few months: (The numbers to the right of the address are number killed and number wounded).

June 25, 2016 Illinois Chicago 1400 block of W. 114th Place 0 4
June 24, 2016 Kansas Kansas City N. 3rd and Walker 0 4
June 24, 2016 Maryland District Heights 3100 block of Orleans Avenue 3 2
June 24, 2016 Connecticut Hartford Brook and Winter Street 0 5

May 11, 2016 Alabama Birmingham 1400 block of 21st Street N 1 4
May 11, 2016 Illinois Chicago 7100 block of South State Street 0 5
May 8, 2016 Texas Austin 8600 block of North Lamar 1 3
May 6, 2016 Michigan Detroit 12300 Block of Gratiot 1 4
May 6, 2016 Alabama Montgomery 1300 block of Clay Street 1 3
May 6, 2016 Maryland Bethesda 7101 Democracy Blvd 3 3
May 5, 2016 Louisiana Shreveport 300 block of North Thomas Drive 2 6
May 5, 2016 Florida Miami 2108 NW 19th Terrace 1 3
May 4, 2016 Minnesota Minneapolis 16th Avenue North and Newton Avenue North 1 7
May 1, 2016 Tennessee Murfreesboro 1955 Old Castle Drive 0 5
April 29, 2016 Missouri Saint Louis (Ferguson) 400 block of Dade Avenue 0 4
April 29, 2016 California Oakland 3200 block of San Pablo Avenue 0 5
April 27, 2016 Louisiana Baton Rouge Kerrit Drive 1 3
April 27, 2016 Mississippi Kilmichael Pecan Drive 3 1
June 22, 2016 Washington Lacey 500 block of Dutterow Road 3 1
June 22, 2016 Georgia Dekalb (county) Lancashire Drive and Central Drive 1 4
June 22, 2016 Illinois Chicago 3100 block of West Warren 0 4
June 21, 2016 New Jersey Willingboro Mosshill Lane 0 4
June 21, 2016 Kentucky Louisville 2802 Rodman Street 2 2
June 19, 2016 Virginia Roanoke 2328 Melrose Avenue 0 4
June 18, 2016 Virginia Exmore Fredrick Douglas Road 1 3
June 18, 2016 Georgia Waycross 2625 Arnold Ct 2 2
June 18, 2016 Illinois Chicago East 79th Street and South Escanaba Avenue 0 4
June 14, 2016 Delaware Wilmington South Van Buren and Elm streets 0 4
June 14, 2016 California Oakland 1301 Franklin Street 1 3
June 13, 2016 California Fresno East El Monte Way and Recreation Avenue 0 4
June 9, 2016 Florida Fort Walton Beach Landview Drive 0 4
June 8, 2016 Massachusetts Boston 66 Washington St 1 3
June 8, 2016 District of Columbia Washington North Capitol Street and New York Avenue NW 0 4
June 6, 2016 California Visalia 33 60 South Fairway Street 0 4
June 5, 2016 Minnesota Minneapolis 8th and Humboldt Avenue N. 0 4
June 5, 2016 Florida Cape Coral 2600 block of Skyline Boulevard S 3 3
June 5, 2016 New York Brooklyn Mermaid Ave and 16th St. 0 4
June 5, 2016 Arizona Phoenix 8152 N Black Canyon Hwy 2 5
June 4, 2016 Colorado Denver 3600 block of Hudson Street 3 1
May 31, 2016 Illinois Chicago 3300 block of West Huron Street 0 4
May 31, 2016 Indiana Fort Wayne 6600 block of Pawawna Drive 0 4
May 30, 2016 Maryland Baltimore 500 block of East 43rd Street 0 5
May 30, 2016 California Sacramento 3900 block of 44th 0 5
May 29, 2016 Nevada Las Vegas 200 block of North 3rd Street 0 4
May 29, 2016 Texas Houston 13210 Memorial Drive 2 6
May 29, 2016 New Jersey Trenton 600 block of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard 0 6
May 29, 2016 Indiana Indianapolis 300 block of South Meridian Street 0 4
April 26, 2016 Maryland District Heights (Forestville) 6500 block of Hil-Mar Drive 1 4
April 25, 2016 Tennessee Nashville 400 Charlotte Avenue 0 4
April 25, 2016 Florida Miami 1506 Northwest 70th Street 0 5
April 24, 2016 Virginia Halifax 1055 L P Bailey Memorial Hwy 0 5
April 24, 2016 Illinois Chicago (Englewood) 2000 block of West 68th Place 2 3
April 24, 2016 Colorado Denver 1400 Block of 14th Street 0 4
April 23, 2016 Nevada Las Vegas 1650 South Hollywood Boulevard 1 3
April 23, 2016 Alabama Auburn 1200 block of Lee Road 83 3 1
April 23, 2016 Kansas Topeka 3732 S.W. Topeka Boulevard 1 4
April 23, 2016 New York New York (Manhattan) West 141st Street and Edgecombe Avenue 0 4
April 22, 2016 Ohio Piketon 4077 Union Hill Road 8 0
April 22, 2016 Georgia Appling 3162 Johnson Drive 6 0
April 21, 2016 Maryland Baltimore 4800 block of Frankford Avenue 0 4
April 19, 2016 Alabama Blountsville 81551 Us Highway 278 1 4
April 19, 2016 Illinois Chicago 2700 block of West 53rd Street 1 3
April 19, 2016 Illinois Chicago 1400 block of West 84th Street 1 4
April 18, 2016 California Long Beach 1200 block of E. 17th Street 1 3
April 17, 2016 Pennsylvania Philadelphia 600 block of Westmoreland Street 3 1
April 17, 2016 South Carolina Pelzer 200 block of Eastview Road 1 3
April 17, 2016 Texas Edinburg 5021 W St Hwy 107 1 6
April 16, 2016 Michigan Detroit 9500 block of Oakland 1 4
April 16, 2016 Florida Orlando 1100 block of Conley Street 2 4
April 16, 2016 Alabama Enterprise Baxter Street 0 4
April 14, 2016 New Jersey Orange Taylor Street 1 3
April 10, 2016 Wisconsin Milwaukee 76th and Sheridan 1 3
April 10, 2016 California Los Angeles 84th Street and Towne Avenue 0 4
April 9, 2016 Tennessee Memphis Mt Moriah Road and Ridgeway Road 0 4
April 9, 2016 Alabama Anniston West 15th Street and Crawford Avenue 0 4
April 9, 2016 New Mexico Albuquerque 2600 block of Mesa Drive SE 0 4
April 7, 2016 Illinois Chicago 2200 block of East 70th Place 0 4
Click to expand...

NONE of that justifies taking away a civil liberty , moron.
Click to expand...

I did not say it should. This post above is in response to the lame, lone event in Maine. My O/P simply states the consequences of what can happen in an active shooting situation for someone who brandishes a gun. Can you not read?
Click to expand...


Don't play stupid, everyone here realizes your thread was an attempt to justify gun control.


Or maybe you aren't playing.
Click to expand...


Again, another idiot who wants to spin. Fear is a bitch, isn't it? Like 90% of all other Americans, I would like better, thorough background checks and certainly a federal law banning gun ownership to anyone ever convicted of a felony.
Click to expand...


If you , and other americans, truly cared about getting guns out of the hands of felons you would INSIST that the FBI invade southern Chicago and arrest every gun carrying negro they could find and lock them u for a LONG time.

See, you just spout nonsense about gun control. I have proposed actual gun owner control. A thorough FBI background check, once passed you can buy any firearm you want. If you get caught in posession of a so much as a .38 without said background check, that's 10 years in prison PER weapon.

That actually gets felons who have guns off the streets.
Click to expand...


My idea is better, cheaper and easier......

If you commit a crime with a gun...you are arrested.......

When you catch a felon with a gun...you arrest them.

We can already do this. It has the merit that a law abiding citizen doesn't have to have a background check if they are babysitting their relatives guns when they are on vacation....your idea....would make them felons for just having the gun in their home.......
 
charwin95 said:
martybegan said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
martybegan said:
Your premise is wrong at the most basic level. The correct mode of action for a CCW holder is to hold in place, and if the shooter tries to enter the area he controls, take him out.

Private CCW holders can be compared to a minefield, what you are hoping for is the active shooter doesn't expect armed resistance and the CCW holder can get some shots in before the active shooter realizes he is being confronted.
Click to expand...



If you hold in place and you hear someone coming down a blind hallway, do you shout out and ask if they are the police, the shooter or another good guy? If it's the shooter, you're shit out of luck, aren't you? If it's the police they may not believe you are a good guy. They may think you're the shooter trying to save his sorry ass.

And if you hold in place but can hear the shooter actively killing people in another part of the building, what do you do? Your gun becomes a joke to the people who are dying.

So you should check YOUR premise for reality.
Click to expand...

Considering the Police usually take more than 10-15 minutes at BEST to provide an actual response, the initial time window usually consists of two parties, the shooter and the potential victims.

Your main issue is that you assume everything has to go perfectly, and if it doesn't than having a CCW onsite is worthless. What you ignore is that there is no "good" solution to these situations, only less bad solutions. And I would rather take a chance with someone being armed and able to fight back, than to have everyone disarmed, and trying to escape, lock themselves down, or find improvised weapons for a last stand.
Click to expand...

Good analogy but realistically?????
In a mass shooting or terrorist attack.......... Its chaotic and massive confusions. If you are next to me with a gun or I ran into you with a gun. Lord forgive me what I'm going to do with you. How am I supposed to know that you are a good or bad guy?
When you hear the first shot...... Instinc is you dock, run with the crowd. Don't tell me you are going against the crowd and start shooting.
Click to expand...


You could start by reading about actual mass shootings with civilian concealed carriers on the scene....you could start there..then you would know how foolish your post is.....


I have listed several of these real world incidents...go back and study them....
 
2aguy said:
Fair&Balanced said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
Fair&Balanced said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
Fair&Balanced said:
NONE of that justifies taking away a civil liberty , moron.
Click to expand...

I did not say it should. This post above is in response to the lame, lone event in Maine. My O/P simply states the consequences of what can happen in an active shooting situation for someone who brandishes a gun. Can you not read?
Click to expand...


Don't play stupid, everyone here realizes your thread was an attempt to justify gun control.


Or maybe you aren't playing.
Click to expand...


Again, another idiot who wants to spin. Fear is a bitch, isn't it? Like 90% of all other Americans, I would like better, thorough background checks and certainly a federal law banning gun ownership to anyone ever convicted of a felony.
Click to expand...


If you , and other americans, truly cared about getting guns out of the hands of felons you would INSIST that the FBI invade southern Chicago and arrest every gun carrying negro they could find and lock them u for a LONG time.

See, you just spout nonsense about gun control. I have proposed actual gun owner control. A thorough FBI background check, once passed you can buy any firearm you want. If you get caught in posession of a so much as a .38 without said background check, that's 10 years in prison PER weapon.

That actually gets felons who have guns off the streets.
Click to expand...


My idea is better, cheaper and easier......

If you commit a crime with a gun...you are arrested.......

When you catch a felon with a gun...you arrest them.

We can already do this. It has the merit that a law abiding citizen doesn't have to have a background check if they are babysitting their relatives guns when they are on vacation....your idea....would make them felons for just having the gun in their home.......
Click to expand...


Nope, sorry I believe background checks are necessary and constitutional. The government has the authority to make sure you are legally able to own a firearm.

It should be the same background check as those who receive a security clearance. That level I mean. Then once performed, that's it, for say 10 years. In that 10 years, unless a flag has been put on your name you can buy whatever you like. If you fail the background check, I don't want you so much as owning a cap gun.

No need to have a background check done everytime you buy a gun, and certainly no registration of guns.
 
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
martybegan said:
Your premise is wrong at the most basic level. The correct mode of action for a CCW holder is to hold in place, and if the shooter tries to enter the area he controls, take him out.

Private CCW holders can be compared to a minefield, what you are hoping for is the active shooter doesn't expect armed resistance and the CCW holder can get some shots in before the active shooter realizes he is being confronted.
Click to expand...



If you hold in place and you hear someone coming down a blind hallway, do you shout out and ask if they are the police, the shooter or another good guy? If it's the shooter, you're shit out of luck, aren't you? If it's the police they may not believe you are a good guy. They may think you're the shooter trying to save his sorry ass.

And if you hold in place but can hear the shooter actively killing people in another part of the building, what do you do? Your gun becomes a joke to the people who are dying.

So you should check YOUR premise for reality.
Click to expand...

Just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you have to use it, but if you don't have one you are definately not going to use it to save your life or anyone elses. I really dont see the problem. not every situation will be the same obviously, but in case of Orlando, there were people running everywhere, the lone shooter was distracted by over 100 people he was trying to target, hes not going to notice if you have something in your hand and hes not really going to focus in on one person. I would say the odds greatly favor the guy trying to take out the shooter as long as you are a calm person.
 
daws101 said:
hadit said:
Nosmo King said:
Good guys with guns cannot prevent shootings. March 1981. four men are shot and wounded on the streets of Washington D.C. in broad daylight. Two of the wounded were armed themselves. One of the wounded received a grievous, life altering head wound. The fourth was the President of the United States of America.

All were surrounded by the best armed, best trained cadre of security personnel in history. All were good guys with guns.

maxresdefault.jpg
Click to expand...
And if they were not there?
Click to expand...
the 80's would have been different and the republican party would have made different choices .
Click to expand...
The true answer to the question is, we don't know how many assassination attempts those guys with guns stopped by their mere presence. Even when Reagan was shot, they quickly incapacitated the shooter, preventing further devastation. Lincoln was killed because he had no guys with guns around him to protect him. Guys with guns do prevent shootings.
 
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
This is the reality of being in an active shooting situation, whether it's a crowded store or a building with hallways and several levels.

So say you actually pull your gun out and stay in place until you are found? You have a lot of explaining to do when the cops arrive, and explain very quickly.

13438793_1037942286296784_2402830835013049913_n.jpg
Click to expand...


your supposed to keep your gun concealed, not pull it out dummy, thats what would give you the advantage. If the shooter sees you running around with your gun, he.s gonna know you have one. theres a time to pull your weapon and a time to keep it concealed in that situation. its only common sense, but your right, in one sense, if your a person who is going to panick and run around with it you probably shouldnt be carrying a gun. you could just be projecting there
 
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
This is the reality of being in an active shooting situation, whether it's a crowded store or a building with hallways and several levels.

So say you actually pull your gun out and stay in place until you are found? You have a lot of explaining to do when the cops arrive, and explain very quickly.

13438793_1037942286296784_2402830835013049913_n.jpg
Click to expand...





I have yet to hear how disarming 80 million law abiding gun owners is going to prevent the 30 or so assholes who commit these terrible atrocities.

France has the very laws in place that you want here and lo and behold they didn't work.

150 dead is more than all of the mass shootings we've had in the last 15 years. Toss in the asshole from Norway with those very same laws and the European death toll is greater than all of ours over the last 20 years.

That's a mighty fine record you have there.

Get back to me when your head isn't so far up your ass and you actually wish to discuss something that might actually work.

Till then you're just another yapping jackass.
 
hadit said:
daws101 said:
hadit said:
Nosmo King said:
Good guys with guns cannot prevent shootings. March 1981. four men are shot and wounded on the streets of Washington D.C. in broad daylight. Two of the wounded were armed themselves. One of the wounded received a grievous, life altering head wound. The fourth was the President of the United States of America.

All were surrounded by the best armed, best trained cadre of security personnel in history. All were good guys with guns.

maxresdefault.jpg
Click to expand...
And if they were not there?
Click to expand...
the 80's would have been different and the republican party would have made different choices .
Click to expand...
The true answer to the question is, we don't know how many assassination attempts those guys with guns stopped by their mere presence. Even when Reagan was shot, they quickly incapacitated the shooter, preventing further devastation. Lincoln was killed because he had no guys with guns around him to protect him. Guys with guns do prevent shootings.
Click to expand...
 
martybegan said:
Your premise is wrong at the most basic level. The correct mode of action for a CCW holder is to hold in place, and if the shooter tries to enter the area he controls, take him out.

Private CCW holders can be compared to a minefield, what you are hoping for is the active shooter doesn't expect armed resistance and the CCW holder can get some shots in before the active shooter realizes he is being confronted.
Click to expand...

Your premise is wrong at the most basic level. The correct mode of action for a CCW holder is to hold in place, and if the shooter tries to enter the area he controls, take him out.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Your gun is to provide you a means of escape since your taught to always know your surroundings.

Private CCW holders can be compared to a minefield, what you are hoping for is the active shooter doesn't expect armed resistance and the CCW holder can get some shots in before the active shooter realizes he is being confronted.
Click to expand...

Providing that the armed ammosexuals don't piss themselves first, such as the gun holder in the mall shooting a couple of years ago who never had a clear shot. Sure he didn't.

 
OnePercenter said:
martybegan said:
Your premise is wrong at the most basic level. The correct mode of action for a CCW holder is to hold in place, and if the shooter tries to enter the area he controls, take him out.

Private CCW holders can be compared to a minefield, what you are hoping for is the active shooter doesn't expect armed resistance and the CCW holder can get some shots in before the active shooter realizes he is being confronted.
Click to expand...

Your premise is wrong at the most basic level. The correct mode of action for a CCW holder is to hold in place, and if the shooter tries to enter the area he controls, take him out.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Your gun is to provide you a means of escape since your taught to always know your surroundings.

Private CCW holders can be compared to a minefield, what you are hoping for is the active shooter doesn't expect armed resistance and the CCW holder can get some shots in before the active shooter realizes he is being confronted.
Click to expand...

Providing that the armed ammosexuals don't piss themselves first, such as the gun holder in the mall shooting a couple of years ago who never had a clear shot. Sure he didn't.
Click to expand...





CCW carriers regularly have to clean up after you silly people have pissed yourselves. The LGBT community has figured how useless you twats are so are now arming themselves. And good for them for figuring that out.
 
Fair&Balanced said:
2aguy said:
Fair&Balanced said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
Fair&Balanced said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
I did not say it should. This post above is in response to the lame, lone event in Maine. My O/P simply states the consequences of what can happen in an active shooting situation for someone who brandishes a gun. Can you not read?
Click to expand...


Don't play stupid, everyone here realizes your thread was an attempt to justify gun control.


Or maybe you aren't playing.
Click to expand...


Again, another idiot who wants to spin. Fear is a bitch, isn't it? Like 90% of all other Americans, I would like better, thorough background checks and certainly a federal law banning gun ownership to anyone ever convicted of a felony.
Click to expand...


If you , and other americans, truly cared about getting guns out of the hands of felons you would INSIST that the FBI invade southern Chicago and arrest every gun carrying negro they could find and lock them u for a LONG time.

See, you just spout nonsense about gun control. I have proposed actual gun owner control. A thorough FBI background check, once passed you can buy any firearm you want. If you get caught in posession of a so much as a .38 without said background check, that's 10 years in prison PER weapon.

That actually gets felons who have guns off the streets.
Click to expand...


My idea is better, cheaper and easier......

If you commit a crime with a gun...you are arrested.......

When you catch a felon with a gun...you arrest them.

We can already do this. It has the merit that a law abiding citizen doesn't have to have a background check if they are babysitting their relatives guns when they are on vacation....your idea....would make them felons for just having the gun in their home.......
Click to expand...


Nope, sorry I believe background checks are necessary and constitutional. The government has the authority to make sure you are legally able to own a firearm.

It should be the same background check as those who receive a security clearance. That level I mean. Then once performed, that's it, for say 10 years. In that 10 years, unless a flag has been put on your name you can buy whatever you like. If you fail the background check, I don't want you so much as owning a cap gun.

No need to have a background check done everytime you buy a gun, and certainly no registration of guns.
Click to expand...


They can do that during a traffic stop......they can ask if you have a gun on you and you can answer that for officer safety.

So....what if you can't afford to pay for the background check? What do you do to exercise your Right.......?

Again.....you want the person sitting in the car of a person who legally owns a gun......with the persons gun...to be made into a felon if they are in the same car as the gun?

My idea works better...costs nothing and we already have the laws on the book......

If you are a law abiding citizen you can go to a gun store and they can check you with your drivers license...that's it...anything else is infringing.
 
Anti gunners and left wing assholes in general must hate the internet......

This was on the gunsites today......another Night Club was attacked by a gunman....but this time...yep....a good guy with a concealed gun stopped him.....and when the police arrived, guess what...they could tell who the good guy was....

This whole thread is another example of the stupidity of anti gunners.....

Yep.....amazing that we didn't hear much about this club shooting so soon after the Orlando shooting......and we know the reason....a good guy with a concealed gun ended the shooters killing spree.....

so...

Never mind, nothing to see here.......


This shooter was illegally carrying his gun........when the cops arrived they didn't shoot the good guy........

There is nothing that the anti gun loons say about guns in the United States that has any bearing in reality....

Deputies: Man charged after opening fire, wounding several people at nightclub

LYMAN, SC (FOX Carolina) -

Deputies with Spartanburg County said a man faces multiple attempted murder charges after opening fire outside a nightclub early Sunday morning.

The shooting happened around 3:30 a.m. at Playoffz nightclub on Inman Road in Lyman.

Deputies said 32-year-old Jody Ray Thompson pulled out a gun after getting into an argument with another man and fired several rounds toward a crowd that had gathered out in front of the club.

"His rounds struck 3 victims, and almost struck a fourth victim, who in self-defense, pulled his own weapon and fired, striking Thompson in the leg," Lt. Kevin Bobo said.

Bobo said the man who shot Thompson has a valid concealed weapons permit, cooperated with investigators, and won’t be facing any charges.

"Thompson was still on the scene when deputies arrived, but the initial scene was chaotic," Bobo said. "It wasn’t until victims and witnesses were interviewed, and video from the scene was reviewed that Thompson was identified as the suspect."

Thompson was charged four counts of attempted murder, possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime, and unlawful carrying of a weapon.
 
South Carolina passed law allowing concealed carry in bars...not all of the morons out there got the news.....

South Carolina Legalizes Concealed Weapons In Bars

The new law, signed by Gov. Nikki Haley a week after a man was fatally shot in a South Carolina bar parking lot, allows people holding concealed-weapon permits to carry firearms in places that serve food or alcohol, as long as they don’t drink while inside.

So lives were saved by allowing a normal, law abiding American to carry a gun in a bar.......and nothing the anti-gunners said came true....
 
Fair&Balanced said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
Fair&Balanced said:
NoTeaPartyPleez said:
2aguy said:
Hey moron....here are two good guys with guns stopping and holding four shooters for police....they were not shot....

Good Guys With Guns Intervene in Maine Walmart Shooting

Two good guys with a gun intervened in a shooting altercation at a Walmart in Maine last weekend.

According to WCSH in Portland, Maine, two bystanders legally carrying handguns intervened in a shooting situation on Sunday afternoon at the parking lot of a Walmart in Augusta.





Four suspects were taken into custody and charged with an array of offenses, including reckless conduct with a gun, aggravated assault, and drug trafficking, according to police.

Nobody was injured in the shooting and all parties denied medical assistance.

WCSH reports:

Police said the suspects involved were sitting in vehicles parked next to each other when an altercation arose. The occupants of one vehicle fired at the occupants of the other, which resulted in a return in gunfire.

When the shooting stopped, police said one suspect exited their vehicle to confront the occupants of the other vehicle. This is when two bystanders, who were legally carrying, interfered and stopped the incident, police said.
Click to expand...

That's ONE. Wow, I'm impressed.

Now here's all the mass shootings in just the last few months: (The numbers to the right of the address are number killed and number wounded).

June 25, 2016 Illinois Chicago 1400 block of W. 114th Place 0 4
June 24, 2016 Kansas Kansas City N. 3rd and Walker 0 4
June 24, 2016 Maryland District Heights 3100 block of Orleans Avenue 3 2
June 24, 2016 Connecticut Hartford Brook and Winter Street 0 5

May 11, 2016 Alabama Birmingham 1400 block of 21st Street N 1 4
May 11, 2016 Illinois Chicago 7100 block of South State Street 0 5
May 8, 2016 Texas Austin 8600 block of North Lamar 1 3
May 6, 2016 Michigan Detroit 12300 Block of Gratiot 1 4
May 6, 2016 Alabama Montgomery 1300 block of Clay Street 1 3
May 6, 2016 Maryland Bethesda 7101 Democracy Blvd 3 3
May 5, 2016 Louisiana Shreveport 300 block of North Thomas Drive 2 6
May 5, 2016 Florida Miami 2108 NW 19th Terrace 1 3
May 4, 2016 Minnesota Minneapolis 16th Avenue North and Newton Avenue North 1 7
May 1, 2016 Tennessee Murfreesboro 1955 Old Castle Drive 0 5
April 29, 2016 Missouri Saint Louis (Ferguson) 400 block of Dade Avenue 0 4
April 29, 2016 California Oakland 3200 block of San Pablo Avenue 0 5
April 27, 2016 Louisiana Baton Rouge Kerrit Drive 1 3
April 27, 2016 Mississippi Kilmichael Pecan Drive 3 1
June 22, 2016 Washington Lacey 500 block of Dutterow Road 3 1
June 22, 2016 Georgia Dekalb (county) Lancashire Drive and Central Drive 1 4
June 22, 2016 Illinois Chicago 3100 block of West Warren 0 4
June 21, 2016 New Jersey Willingboro Mosshill Lane 0 4
June 21, 2016 Kentucky Louisville 2802 Rodman Street 2 2
June 19, 2016 Virginia Roanoke 2328 Melrose Avenue 0 4
June 18, 2016 Virginia Exmore Fredrick Douglas Road 1 3
June 18, 2016 Georgia Waycross 2625 Arnold Ct 2 2
June 18, 2016 Illinois Chicago East 79th Street and South Escanaba Avenue 0 4
June 14, 2016 Delaware Wilmington South Van Buren and Elm streets 0 4
June 14, 2016 California Oakland 1301 Franklin Street 1 3
June 13, 2016 California Fresno East El Monte Way and Recreation Avenue 0 4
June 9, 2016 Florida Fort Walton Beach Landview Drive 0 4
June 8, 2016 Massachusetts Boston 66 Washington St 1 3
June 8, 2016 District of Columbia Washington North Capitol Street and New York Avenue NW 0 4
June 6, 2016 California Visalia 33 60 South Fairway Street 0 4
June 5, 2016 Minnesota Minneapolis 8th and Humboldt Avenue N. 0 4
June 5, 2016 Florida Cape Coral 2600 block of Skyline Boulevard S 3 3
June 5, 2016 New York Brooklyn Mermaid Ave and 16th St. 0 4
June 5, 2016 Arizona Phoenix 8152 N Black Canyon Hwy 2 5
June 4, 2016 Colorado Denver 3600 block of Hudson Street 3 1
May 31, 2016 Illinois Chicago 3300 block of West Huron Street 0 4
May 31, 2016 Indiana Fort Wayne 6600 block of Pawawna Drive 0 4
May 30, 2016 Maryland Baltimore 500 block of East 43rd Street 0 5
May 30, 2016 California Sacramento 3900 block of 44th 0 5
May 29, 2016 Nevada Las Vegas 200 block of North 3rd Street 0 4
May 29, 2016 Texas Houston 13210 Memorial Drive 2 6
May 29, 2016 New Jersey Trenton 600 block of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard 0 6
May 29, 2016 Indiana Indianapolis 300 block of South Meridian Street 0 4
April 26, 2016 Maryland District Heights (Forestville) 6500 block of Hil-Mar Drive 1 4
April 25, 2016 Tennessee Nashville 400 Charlotte Avenue 0 4
April 25, 2016 Florida Miami 1506 Northwest 70th Street 0 5
April 24, 2016 Virginia Halifax 1055 L P Bailey Memorial Hwy 0 5
April 24, 2016 Illinois Chicago (Englewood) 2000 block of West 68th Place 2 3
April 24, 2016 Colorado Denver 1400 Block of 14th Street 0 4
April 23, 2016 Nevada Las Vegas 1650 South Hollywood Boulevard 1 3
April 23, 2016 Alabama Auburn 1200 block of Lee Road 83 3 1
April 23, 2016 Kansas Topeka 3732 S.W. Topeka Boulevard 1 4
April 23, 2016 New York New York (Manhattan) West 141st Street and Edgecombe Avenue 0 4
April 22, 2016 Ohio Piketon 4077 Union Hill Road 8 0
April 22, 2016 Georgia Appling 3162 Johnson Drive 6 0
April 21, 2016 Maryland Baltimore 4800 block of Frankford Avenue 0 4
April 19, 2016 Alabama Blountsville 81551 Us Highway 278 1 4
April 19, 2016 Illinois Chicago 2700 block of West 53rd Street 1 3
April 19, 2016 Illinois Chicago 1400 block of West 84th Street 1 4
April 18, 2016 California Long Beach 1200 block of E. 17th Street 1 3
April 17, 2016 Pennsylvania Philadelphia 600 block of Westmoreland Street 3 1
April 17, 2016 South Carolina Pelzer 200 block of Eastview Road 1 3
April 17, 2016 Texas Edinburg 5021 W St Hwy 107 1 6
April 16, 2016 Michigan Detroit 9500 block of Oakland 1 4
April 16, 2016 Florida Orlando 1100 block of Conley Street 2 4
April 16, 2016 Alabama Enterprise Baxter Street 0 4
April 14, 2016 New Jersey Orange Taylor Street 1 3
April 10, 2016 Wisconsin Milwaukee 76th and Sheridan 1 3
April 10, 2016 California Los Angeles 84th Street and Towne Avenue 0 4
April 9, 2016 Tennessee Memphis Mt Moriah Road and Ridgeway Road 0 4
April 9, 2016 Alabama Anniston West 15th Street and Crawford Avenue 0 4
April 9, 2016 New Mexico Albuquerque 2600 block of Mesa Drive SE 0 4
April 7, 2016 Illinois Chicago 2200 block of East 70th Place 0 4
Click to expand...

NONE of that justifies taking away a civil liberty , moron.
Click to expand...

I did not say it should. This post above is in response to the lame, lone event in Maine. My O/P simply states the consequences of what can happen in an active shooting situation for someone who brandishes a gun. Can you not read?
Click to expand...


Don't play stupid, everyone here realizes your thread was an attempt to justify gun control.


Or maybe you aren't playing.
Click to expand...
The appeal to the masses fallicy a sure sign of losing the argument.
 
westwall said:
OnePercenter said:
martybegan said:
Your premise is wrong at the most basic level. The correct mode of action for a CCW holder is to hold in place, and if the shooter tries to enter the area he controls, take him out.

Private CCW holders can be compared to a minefield, what you are hoping for is the active shooter doesn't expect armed resistance and the CCW holder can get some shots in before the active shooter realizes he is being confronted.
Click to expand...

Your premise is wrong at the most basic level. The correct mode of action for a CCW holder is to hold in place, and if the shooter tries to enter the area he controls, take him out.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Your gun is to provide you a means of escape since your taught to always know your surroundings.

Private CCW holders can be compared to a minefield, what you are hoping for is the active shooter doesn't expect armed resistance and the CCW holder can get some shots in before the active shooter realizes he is being confronted.
Click to expand...

Providing that the armed ammosexuals don't piss themselves first, such as the gun holder in the mall shooting a couple of years ago who never had a clear shot. Sure he didn't.
Click to expand...

CCW carriers regularly have to clean up after you silly people have pissed yourselves. The LGBT community has figured how useless you twats are so are now arming themselves. And good for them for figuring that out.
Click to expand...

CCW carriers regularly have to clean up after you silly people have pissed yourselves. The LGBT community has figured how useless you twats are so are now arming themselves. And good for them for figuring that out.

So you are an ammosexual.
 
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