Why A "Good Guy with a Gun" is Bullshit

[2aguy]

Just think of what the results would be if you had several people firing in all directions, in a blind panic because they learned how to shoot a gun, but they hadn't learned how to use it.

Which is why I believe a substantial training regimen be required for obtaining a CCW permit. A good training course will eliminate the kind of scenario you've described.

No it won't necessarily. It might but even cops screw up on occasion. All we can ever do in life is increase or decrease our odds for survival. But often the argument by the left is made in absolutes. There is no requirement for training here as WA is shall issue and we aren't having problems with ccw holders gunning down each other. But for the left it is an emotional issue and reason simply doesn't apply.

Exactly.....he wants to increase training for a situation that doesn't warrant government control over it....

 

[MikeK]

No it won't necessarily. It might but even cops screw up on occasion. All we can ever do in life is increase or decrease our odds for survival. But often the argument by the left is made in absolutes. There is no requirement for training here as WA is shall issue and we aren't having problems with ccw holders gunning down each other. But for the left it is an emotional issue and reason simply doesn't apply.

Yes it will -- quite necessarily!

While cops do screw up "on occasion" you may rest assured that without the kind of training (and drill) they receive (or should receive) they would be misusing their guns a hell of a lot more.

And your reference to "the left" is presumptive and as wrong as two left feet. What it proves is you think in boxes, which calls for little to no reasoning.

I carried a concealed handgun for 23 years in New York City and I can tell you the training I received would have been very helpful if I ever had occasion to use my weapon. I've also known several individuals who have carry permits but who are for the most part in the dark about reactive conduct, automatic background perception, and more. While they think the brief "training" they've received at the gun shop has prepared them for any situation the fact is they have no instinctual preparation at all and are likely to make serious mistakes.

This is not the old wide-open West. We live in a very crowded society where the proper use of firearms calls for substantial training and drill to avoid potentially fatal or criminal mistakes. Watching tv cop shows does not provide the necessary awareness and abilities.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Follow this thread for further NRA talking points and rhetoric from the 2nd Amendments droids who will not offer any fact-based information on how to handle yourself in an active shooting situation if you are carrying a concealed weapon.

Project much?

When did you offer fact based information in your opening post?

 

[Iceweasel]

No it won't necessarily. It might but even cops screw up on occasion. All we can ever do in life is increase or decrease our odds for survival. But often the argument by the left is made in absolutes. There is no requirement for training here as WA is shall issue and we aren't having problems with ccw holders gunning down each other. But for the left it is an emotional issue and reason simply doesn't apply.

Yes it will -- quite necessarily!

While cops do screw up "on occasion" you may rest assured that without the kind of training (and drill) they receive (or should receive) they would be misusing their guns a hell of a lot more.

And your reference to "the left" is presumptive and as wrong as two left feet. What it proves is you think in boxes, which calls for little to no reasoning.

I carried a concealed handgun for 23 years in New York City and I can tell you the training I received would have been very helpful if I ever had occasion to use my weapon. I've also known several individuals who have carry permits but who are for the most part in the dark about reactive conduct, automatic background perception, and more. While they think the brief "training" they've received at the gun shop has prepared them for any situation the fact is they have no instinctual preparation at all and are likely to make serious mistakes.

This is not the old wide-open West. We live in a very crowded society where the proper use of firearms calls for substantial training and vide the necessary awareness and abilities.

You totally ignored the point. I said we are a shall issue state and are not having the problems that you are getting all soiled over.

 

[MikeK]

Just think of what the results would be if you had several people firing in all directions, in a blind panic because they learned how to shoot a gun, but they hadn't learned how to use it.

Which is why I believe a substantial training regimen be required for obtaining a CCW permit. A good training course will eliminate the kind of scenario you've described.

What will then happen is the required course will have a 6 month wait list, and will cost a few grand. Any requirements like this can be bastardized by gun control nuts to make it as hard as possible to get a CCW.

That is pure assumption on your part.

A properly administered federal training requirement would make the necessary facilities and instructions available to all CCW applicants at very low or no cost. The only reason such availability seems so obscure to you now is the relative lack of any such training requirement. Consequently the majority of CCW holders think they know what to do in any situation because they watch Law & Order or James Bond movies.

Because of the current and increasing level of violence and the rising terrorism potential it is important that there are more competently armed citizens. Therefore it should be made much easier to obtain a CCW permit, but there needs to be a training requirement attached to it. And because such training will be a government requirement, then government will be responsible for providing it.

And if you know as much as you probably think you know about guns and the carrying thereof you might wish to apply for a part-time position as an instructor.

 

[Iceweasel]

Just think of what the results would be if you had several people firing in all directions, in a blind panic because they learned how to shoot a gun, but they hadn't learned how to use it.

Which is why I believe a substantial training regimen be required for obtaining a CCW permit. A good training course will eliminate the kind of scenario you've described.

What will then happen is the required course will have a 6 month wait list, and will cost a few grand. Any requirements like this can be bastardized by gun control nuts to make it as hard as possible to get a CCW.

That is pure assumption on your part.

A properly administered federal training requirement would make the necessary facilities and instructions available to all CCW applicants at very low or no cost. The only reason such availability seems so obscure to you now is the relative lack of any such training requirement. Consequently the majority of CCW holders think they know what to do in any situation because they watch Law & Order or James Bond movies.

Because of the current and increasing level of violence and the rising terrorism potential it is important that there are more competently armed citizens. Therefore it should be made much easier to obtain a CCW permit, but there needs to be a training requirement attached to it. And because such training will be a government requirement, then government will be responsible for providing it.

And if you know as much as you probably think you know about guns and the carrying thereof you might wish to apply for a part-time position as an instructor.

Sounds like you're the one watching too much TV. Where are all the ccw holder's body counts?

 

[miketx]

The op has no clue. We don't go hunting for the shooter. We take cover or try to escape and only shoot as a last resort. But hey don't let my confuse your lies with facts. When bullets start flying only a moron liberal would pull his gun and start "hunting". LMAO!

 

[2aguy]

No it won't necessarily. It might but even cops screw up on occasion. All we can ever do in life is increase or decrease our odds for survival. But often the argument by the left is made in absolutes. There is no requirement for training here as WA is shall issue and we aren't having problems with ccw holders gunning down each other. But for the left it is an emotional issue and reason simply doesn't apply.

Yes it will -- quite necessarily!

While cops do screw up "on occasion" you may rest assured that without the kind of training (and drill) they receive (or should receive) they would be misusing their guns a hell of a lot more.

And your reference to "the left" is presumptive and as wrong as two left feet. What it proves is you think in boxes, which calls for little to no reasoning.

I carried a concealed handgun for 23 years in New York City and I can tell you the training I received would have been very helpful if I ever had occasion to use my weapon. I've also known several individuals who have carry permits but who are for the most part in the dark about reactive conduct, automatic background perception, and more. While they think the brief "training" they've received at the gun shop has prepared them for any situation the fact is they have no instinctual preparation at all and are likely to make serious mistakes.

This is not the old wide-open West. We live in a very crowded society where the proper use of firearms calls for substantial training and drill to avoid potentially fatal or criminal mistakes. Watching tv cop shows does not provide the necessary awareness and abilities.

Nothing you say is supported by real world gun self defense encounters.....you suffer from the cop and soldier mentality.........if people haven't had your training that means they are essentially unable to use a gun.......this is not true...this is not backed up by actual self defense in the real world.....

Americans use guns for self defense 1,500,000 times a year......most of the time the criminals retreat before shots are fired.....a good number of these result in the criminal being held for police to arrive......

Yes..training is good.....training should be done...but it is not necessary to train like a SEALANT or a me,get of a SWAT team to defend yourself with a gun......,you are wrong.

 

[2aguy]

Just think of what the results would be if you had several people firing in all directions, in a blind panic because they learned how to shoot a gun, but they hadn't learned how to use it.

Which is why I believe a substantial training regimen be required for obtaining a CCW permit. A good training course will eliminate the kind of scenario you've described.

What will then happen is the required course will have a 6 month wait list, and will cost a few grand. Any requirements like this can be bastardized by gun control nuts to make it as hard as possible to get a CCW.

That is pure assumption on your part.

A properly administered federal training requirement would make the necessary facilities and instructions available to all CCW applicants at very low or no cost. The only reason such availability seems so obscure to you now is the relative lack of any such training requirement. Consequently the majority of CCW holders think they know what to do in any situation because they watch Law & Order or James Bond movies.

Because of the current and increasing level of violence and the rising terrorism potential it is important that there are more competently armed citizens. Therefore it should be made much easier to obtain a CCW permit, but there needs to be a training requirement attached to it. And because such training will be a government requirement, then government will be responsible for providing it.

And if you know as much as you probably think you know about guns and the carrying thereof you might wish to apply for a part-time position as an instructor.

The violent crime rate has been going down, not up...as more Americans actually carry guns


13,000,000 concealed carry gun owners.....and 586 accidental gun deaths.......only 230 thugs actually had to be shot and killed....so where exactly is this problem you keep talking about? it doesn't exist...and any mandatory training requirement will 1) be unConstutional under the 14th Amendment and 2) be used by anti-gun activists to keep people from owning guns.....

 

[MikeK]

The violent crime rate has been going down, not up...as more Americans actually carry guns

Whatever statistics you are referring to probably ignore the rapidly rising rate of Black-on-White crime. If you'd care to learn more about that you can follow this path on YouTube, or you can ask some of the active cops in this forum, like Dannyboys and BUCS. The fact is Black-on-White violent crime is severely under-reported because of media pandering, and with the rising input of North African refugees you can expect to see even more of it in the near future.

13,000,000 concealed carry gun owners.....and 586 accidental gun deaths.......only 230 thugs actually had to be shot and killed....so where exactly is this problem you keep talking about? it doesn't exist...and any mandatory training requirement will 1) be unConstutional under the 14th Amendment and 2) be used by anti-gun activists to keep people from owning guns.....

If there were twenty-six million CCW holders rather than thirteen million it still wouldn't be enough. I don't know what state you live in but I'm sure it's not in the North, where in most places it's virtually impossible to get a CCW permit.

Re: your apprehensions about the Fourteenth Amendment making a training requirement unconstitutional, according to the Second Amendment the CCW permit requirement is flagrantly unconstitutional. So why are you concerned about one and not the other?

My position is simple. There needs to be more armed citizens and carry permits should be much easier to get for law-abiding citizens. But too many un-trained individuals walking around strapped is a dangerous situation which ultimately will lead to even stricter repression than we have now.

Last, are you a Libertarian?

 

[2aguy]

The violent crime rate has been going down, not up...as more Americans actually carry guns

Whatever statistics you are referring to probably ignore the rapidly rising rate of Black-on-White crime. If you'd care to learn more about that you can follow this path on YouTube, or you can ask some of the active cops in this forum, like Dannyboys and BUCS. The fact is Black-on-White violent crime is severely under-reported because of media pandering, and with the rising input of North African refugees you can expect to see even more of it in the near future.

13,000,000 concealed carry gun owners.....and 586 accidental gun deaths.......only 230 thugs actually had to be shot and killed....so where exactly is this problem you keep talking about? it doesn't exist...and any mandatory training requirement will 1) be unConstutional under the 14th Amendment and 2) be used by anti-gun activists to keep people from owning guns.....

If there were twenty-six million CCW holders rather than thirteen million it still wouldn't be enough. I don't know what state you live in but I'm sure it's not in the North, where in most places it's virtually impossible to get a CCW permit.

Re: your apprehensions about the Fourteenth Amendment making a training requirement unconstitutional, according to the Second Amendment the CCW permit requirement is unconstitutional. So why are you concerned about one and not the other?

My position is simple. There needs to be more armed citizens and carry permits should be much easier to get for law-abiding citizens. But too many un-trained individuals walking around strapped is a dangerous situation.

Last, are you a Libertarian?

I am concerned about both...but I am not the one advocating for adding another unConstitutional requirement to exercise a right..you are.....

Too many un-trained.....we have 13 milliion people carrying guns for self defense...with permits.....and actual research shows they are more law abiding than other citizens and even sworn police officers.....you are coming from the police and military bias about weapons......which is not based in reality.

 

[2aguy]

The violent crime rate has been going down, not up...as more Americans actually carry guns

Whatever statistics you are referring to probably ignore the rapidly rising rate of Black-on-White crime. If you'd care to learn more about that you can follow this path on YouTube, or you can ask some of the active cops in this forum, like Dannyboys and BUCS. The fact is Black-on-White violent crime is severely under-reported because of media pandering, and with the rising input of North African refugees you can expect to see even more of it in the near future.

13,000,000 concealed carry gun owners.....and 586 accidental gun deaths.......only 230 thugs actually had to be shot and killed....so where exactly is this problem you keep talking about? it doesn't exist...and any mandatory training requirement will 1) be unConstutional under the 14th Amendment and 2) be used by anti-gun activists to keep people from owning guns.....

If there were twenty-six million CCW holders rather than thirteen million it still wouldn't be enough. I don't know what state you live in but I'm sure it's not in the North, where in most places it's virtually impossible to get a CCW permit.

Re: your apprehensions about the Fourteenth Amendment making a training requirement unconstitutional, according to the Second Amendment the CCW permit requirement is flagrantly unconstitutional. So why are you concerned about one and not the other?

My position is simple. There needs to be more armed citizens and carry permits should be much easier to get for law-abiding citizens. But too many un-trained individuals walking around strapped is a dangerous situation which ultimately will lead to even stricter repression than we have now.

Last, are you a Libertarian?

I am a conservative with libertarian sympathies.....

 

[2aguy]

The violent crime rate has been going down, not up...as more Americans actually carry guns

Whatever statistics you are referring to probably ignore the rapidly rising rate of Black-on-White crime. If you'd care to learn more about that you can follow this path on YouTube, or you can ask some of the active cops in this forum, like Dannyboys and BUCS. The fact is Black-on-White violent crime is severely under-reported because of media pandering, and with the rising input of North African refugees you can expect to see even more of it in the near future.

13,000,000 concealed carry gun owners.....and 586 accidental gun deaths.......only 230 thugs actually had to be shot and killed....so where exactly is this problem you keep talking about? it doesn't exist...and any mandatory training requirement will 1) be unConstutional under the 14th Amendment and 2) be used by anti-gun activists to keep people from owning guns.....

If there were twenty-six million CCW holders rather than thirteen million it still wouldn't be enough. I don't know what state you live in but I'm sure it's not in the North, where in most places it's virtually impossible to get a CCW permit.

Re: your apprehensions about the Fourteenth Amendment making a training requirement unconstitutional, according to the Second Amendment the CCW permit requirement is flagrantly unconstitutional. So why are you concerned about one and not the other?

My position is simple. There needs to be more armed citizens and carry permits should be much easier to get for law-abiding citizens. But too many un-trained individuals walking around strapped is a dangerous situation which ultimately will lead to even stricter repression than we have now.

Last, are you a Libertarian?

i live in Illinois near Chicago and have a permit to carry....

 

[miketx]

Just think of what the results would be if you had several people firing in all directions, in a blind panic because they learned how to shoot a gun, but they hadn't learned how to use it.

Which is why I believe a substantial training regimen be required for obtaining a CCW permit. A good training course will eliminate the kind of scenario you've described.

What will then happen is the required course will have a 6 month wait list, and will cost a few grand. Any requirements like this can be bastardized by gun control nuts to make it as hard as possible to get a CCW.

That is pure assumption on your part.

A properly administered federal training requirement would make the necessary facilities and instructions available to all CCW applicants at very low or no cost. The only reason such availability seems so obscure to you now is the relative lack of any such training requirement. Consequently the majority of CCW holders think they know what to do in any situation because they watch Law & Order or James Bond movies.

Because of the current and increasing level of violence and the rising terrorism potential it is important that there are more competently armed citizens. Therefore it should be made much easier to obtain a CCW permit, but there needs to be a training requirement attached to it. And because such training will be a government requirement, then government will be responsible for providing it.

And if you know as much as you probably think you know about guns and the carrying thereof you might wish to apply for a part-time position as an instructor.

While there is nothing wrong with training, the Texas course does give some training. However one LEO guy I used to know told me that when the chips are down, you'll know who needs shootin'.

 

[JimBowie1958]

SHOCK: Another Mass Shooting at Club, But Look Why Media's Refusing to Report It

 

[gipper]

SHOCK: Another Mass Shooting at Club, But Look Why Media's Refusing to Report It

Happens quite often, but some Americans are too uninformed or propagandized to see it...and what can we say about a media that is completely in the tank for eliminating the 2A?

Here is a list of actions by armed citizens, who prevented mass murder for the month of May....

You Stopped Mass Murder in May
JUNE 29, 2016
It took the Orlando Police three hours to stop a mass murderer in a gay nightclub. Armed citizens like you responded in seconds. This happens not once, but time after time, and month after month. Again, you stopped mass murder in May of 2016. Similar reports from earlier months are listed here.

You Stopped Mass Murder in May

 

[miketx]

SHOCK: Another Mass Shooting at Club, But Look Why Media's Refusing to Report It

I posted that here a few days ago. Not a peep from the usual suspects.

 

[JimBowie1958]

SHOCK: Another Mass Shooting at Club, But Look Why Media's Refusing to Report It

I posted that here a few days ago. Not a peep from the usual suspects.

Of course not.

The Gun Grabbing Nazis dont have any use for contrary FACTS nor Reality.

 

[miketx]

Judging from the way shill jones is spinning in my DGU topic, he's gonna pop a blood vessel if some other libtards don't help him out.

 

[Dr Grump]

SHOCK: Another Mass Shooting at Club, But Look Why Media's Refusing to Report It

I posted that here a few days ago. Not a peep from the usual suspects.

Because not all examples have the value or weight. You're talking about a guy with a pistol? getting into an argument vs a guy with an assault rifle going ballistic. What do you do for an encore? Compare WWII to Football War of 1969