Zone1 Why are Christians opposed to abortion when God.....

[BULLDOG]

You're willing to “demand that others adhere to your beliefs” to the point of murdering innocent human beings in cold blood in accordance with your belief that these victims are something less than human.

That is an absurd remark.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

That is an absurd remark.

It's the plain truth.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm unable to discuss the bible with you if I don't know which parts you choose to believe, and why.

That's the whole problem. You don't think I believe in the Bible. I do. What I don't believe is your view of the Bible.

 

[hobelim]

What did I use as an example? Your referencing God as cruel. No one can say, "Christians believe God is cruel. Get it? Perhaps you are a Christian who says, "I am a Christian who believes God is cruel." I am certain you understand the distinction.

The idea that God is a cruel and capricious puerile petty tyrant obsessed with diet fashion and the sexual preferences of consenting adult bipeds is based on an absurd extremely perverse literal interpretation of Divine law created by ignorance of the figurative language used that conceals the hidden purpose and wisdom of God in giving this instruction to human beings.

Without adding, subtracting, or changing a single word, if they look and look and keep on looking, one can find another more rational way to decipher the intent of God by applying the massive mental energy required by an 8 year old to decipher a fairy tale that actually reflects Divine wisdom and surpasses even modern knowledge about the inner working of the human mind and the true cause and verifiable cure for many mental and emotional problems that cripples people making them injure themselves and others by stumbling through life blind.

Jesus died trying to teach people this more rational interpretation of Mosaic law that actually fulfills the promise of life that was encapsulated in his command to 'eat my flesh', a direct reference to the hidden meaning and true subject of kosher law, raising many of the dead.

The revelation of Jesus about the hidden meaning of the Law and the figurative language used creates an image of God that is more like that of a loving dedicated and benevolent Father.

You are peddling the same perverse literal interpretation of the Law that Jesus died opposing.

Get it?

 

[hobelim]

How dare they insist we keep murder illegal!

They? We? Ugh.

Murder, in the context of Jesus saying "Satan was a murderer from the beginning", is not about homicide. It is about deliberately misleading others to defy Divine Law which results in death.

Satan never committed homicide. If you don't believe me you can look it up.

Homicide is covered under "Life for life, limb for limb", etc., which is only about equal justice.

In this light you are a murderer Mr We. Who are you to judge what women or anyone else does

Let he who is without sin (the same exact sin) cast the first stone and all that. Hypocrite!

Remember? Forgive 'us' as 'we'..............

 

[playtime]

I know you hav no interest in THE TRUTH, but for thos who do, here's the explanation of Numbers 11

Is Numbers 5:11-31 referring to God causing an abortion? What was the jealousy offering? | GotQuestions.org

Is Numbers 5:11-31 referring to God causing an abortion? What was the jealousy offering? Why did a wife suspected of adultery have to drink the nasty water?

www.gotquestions.org

what bullshit. the concoction would bring about a miscarriage ... to bleed & expel anything within her womb & bring about ' the curse '.

that term is still used today to describe menstruation.

 

[playtime]

I'd heard this claim before, and never gave it much thought. The Mosaic law was much harsher and less civilized than what Jesus gave in his time, and what most civilizations have adopted. The Mosaic law called for harsh punishments, even death, for offenses that are no longer regarded as nearly so severe, such as working on the Sabbath, or rebelling against one's parents. It's entirely believable that under the sort of dealings that God saw fit to have with the Israelites in that time, that a child might die because of his mother's sin. It makes me think of how David's first child by Bathsheba was condemned, because he was a product of adultery and murder. It's difficult for us mortals to really understand, but in that case, it wasn't the innocent child that was punished, but the child's parents, for the grave sins that surrounded that child's conception. The child is in Heaven, with God, having died sinless.

But you're right, and the article that you cited is right. A reading of the relevant passage in the KJV gives no hint at abortion or miscarriage; that is very clearly an erroneous interpolation made later, that has somehow come to be spread and believed by many who haven't bothered to look it up for themselves.

uh ... what does the ' V' stand for in KJV?

<psssst>

jesus wasn't blonde & blue eyed either.

 

[BULLDOG]

That's the whole problem. You don't think I believe in the Bible. I do. What I don't believe is your view of the Bible.

You obviously don't believe the flood story is a real depiction of something that actually happened. You don't believe that part of the bible.

 

[Meriweather]

You obviously don't believe the flood story is a real depiction of something that actually happened. You don't believe that part of the bible.

Of course a flood happened. I do believe the Bible describes a regional flood, not one that covered the planet.

 

[Weatherman2020]

when God killed ALL babies in the great flood of Noah's Ark flood fame?

I write this not to anger people, if you're not interested in discussing it, then don't. Keep your religion to yourself and move on. I write this because I've had a conversation in another thread and thought it might be a good question to ask for those who want to test their religion against my lack of religion.

Thanks for showing you don’t have a clue as to what ‘life’ is.

 

[BULLDOG]

Of course a flood happened. I do believe the Bible describes a regional flood, not one that covered the planet.

That's why it can't be used to determine either the compassion or vile disregard of the Christian God. At best, it can be seen as fan mail. That's why I asked about your belief in the passover story, or instructions for treatment of conquered enemies. What about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? Real, or fan mail?

 

[Couchpotato]

when God killed ALL babies in the great flood of Noah's Ark flood fame?

I write this not to anger people, if you're not interested in discussing it, then don't. Keep your religion to yourself and move on. I write this because I've had a conversation in another thread and thought it might be a good question to ask for those who want to test their religion against my lack of religion.

God created all life. If he takes it it’s his to take. You aren’t God. Simple.

 

[Meriweather]

That's why it can't be used to determine either the compassion or vile disregard of the Christian God. At best, it can be seen as fan mail. That's why I asked about your belief in the passover story, or instructions for treatment of conquered enemies. What about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? Real, or fan mail?

We cannot have a reasonable discussion about this. I started out with seeking and finding God--running right into Him. I know the love and goodness of God. People who haven't a clue, with people who see the Bible as either "fan male" or God as "vile" are on an entirely different playing field, in an entirely different game.

Our Biblical ancestors knew how to weave a story so it was memorable and made a great impact. Those who want to see God in the great impact can certainly do so, but what I keep in mind is Moses seeing God, not in a great impact, but in hindsight; Elijah not seeing God clearly in the roars of storms and fires, but in a quiet murmur. I remember Biblical authors knew these stories, these traits of God, as well and better than I.

How I study Biblical stories: I go back to non-Biblical sources about what is now known about the plagues in Egypt; the gods they worshiped, the history and culture of their times. I read up on the science of Sodom and Gomorrah. Biblical authors are going to weave these well-known events into settings for the story-book lessons/truths they will teach. It is all masterfully done--a skill we seem to have lost with the advent of Encyclopedias and newspapers.

In the murmurs and the hindsight, these stories reveal God.

 

[hobelim]

Of course a flood happened. I do believe the Bible describes a regional flood, not one that covered the planet.

Under 12,500 feet of water on the bottom of the Indian Ocean, dated between 3000–2800 BCE, the time of Giglmesh, is the Burckle crater which is 25 times the size of meteor crater in Arizona. The object that caused the crater would have instantly vaporized billions of metric tons of water into the atmosphere causing a worldwide deluge that would have lasted for weeks spawning superstorms and cyclones all over the world sweeping away every town city or settlement near rivers, streams, and even dry washes in the deserts, on every continent, not to mention the mega tsunamis that would have instantly swept away every coastal city and settlement, which explains why there are hundreds of flood stories from every continent, even in desert regions, describing a deluge written or told by people who knew the difference between a regional event and a never before experienced mind boggling catastrophe.

List of flood myths - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hobelim]

What about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? Real, or fan mail?

The story of Lot ends with incest which mocks the origin of their traditional enemies.

What does that tell you?

"So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today."

Genesis 19:30-38

 

[BULLDOG]

We cannot have a reasonable discussion about this. I started out with seeking and finding God--running right into Him. I know the love and goodness of God. People who haven't a clue, with people who see the Bible as either "fan male" or God as "vile" are on an entirely different playing field, in an entirely different game.

Our Biblical ancestors knew how to weave a story so it was memorable and made a great impact. Those who want to see God in the great impact can certainly do so, but what I keep in mind is Moses seeing God, not in a great impact, but in hindsight; Elijah not seeing God clearly in the roars of storms and fires, but in a quiet murmur. I remember Biblical authors knew these stories, these traits of God, as well and better than I.

How I study Biblical stories: I go back to non-Biblical sources about what is now known about the plagues in Egypt; the gods they worshiped, the history and culture of their times. I read up on the science of Sodom and Gomorrah. Biblical authors are going to weave these well-known events into settings for the story-book lessons/truths they will teach. It is all masterfully done--a skill we seem to have lost with the advent of Encyclopedias and newspapers.

In the murmurs and the hindsight, these stories reveal God.

Sorry, Your remarks are great for reassuring someone who really isn't interested in the facts anyway. Someone told you a lot of God stories, and you went looking to prove them all true. You just skip over those that can't be.

 

[Meriweather]

Sorry, Your remarks are great for reassuring someone who really isn't interested in the facts anyway. Someone told you a lot of God stories, and you went looking to prove them all true. You just skip over those that can't be.

Methodology--mine or anyone's--isn't meant to be reassuring and seldom is. It never is for someone who wants every English word in the Bible to be strictly literal. I--who knew they were not Encyclopedic, literal events--was looking to prove them true?! That is hilarious. What I knew from the start is that each story has a message (theme/truth) and that additional information may also be gleaned from the account. Don't forget my only intent was/is to learn the intent of the original author to his original audience.

From my own encounter with God I didn't see how Biblical stories could be accurate--therefore my studies of everything from history, culture, language, linguistic, literature, etc.--and discovered genuineness and validity. I also discovered English viewed through the lens of modern Western culture does not, unfortunately, provide a very good understanding of the Bible. So much is overlooked and/or missed in its entirety.

 

[BULLDOG]

Methodology--mine or anyone's--isn't meant to be reassuring and seldom is. It never is for someone who wants every English word in the Bible to be strictly literal. I--who knew they were not Encyclopedic, literal events--was looking to prove them true?! That is hilarious. What I knew from the start is that each story has a message (theme/truth) and that additional information may also be gleaned from the account. Don't forget my only intent was/is to learn the intent of the original author to his original audience.

From my own encounter with God I didn't see how Biblical stories could be accurate--therefore my studies of everything from history, culture, language, linguistic, literature, etc.--and discovered genuineness and validity. I also discovered English viewed through the lens of modern Western culture does not, unfortunately, provide a very good understanding of the Bible. So much is overlooked and/or missed in its entirety.

A rational person knows most of the bible isn't an accurate depiction of actual events. If all those stories are just stories intended to illustrate a theme, then what part of the bible gives rise to worship of Jesus? Which verses move beyond just a moral play and indicate supernatural qualities for Jesus? Those are the only part of the bible worthy of being discussed concerning a specific god, or that specific god's son. The rest is just fictional filler.

 

[Meriweather]

The rest is just fictional filler.

It is not. I'll start there.

 

[Meriweather]

what part of the bible gives rise to worship of Jesus? Which verses move beyond just a moral play and indicate supernatural qualities for Jesus? Those are the only part of the bible worthy of being discussed concerning a specific god, or that specific god's son.

You mentioned you were a deacon.

The twelve apostles followed Jesus for three years. They heard his teachings--turn away from sin/wrong-doing (repentance) and your sins are forgiven. Discern the will of God and be obedient to it. Love God, love one's fellow man. We also celebrate the Last Supper. Once a person does all of this for years, the question one faces is the same question Jesus asked his apostles. "Who do you say that I am?"

After doing all Jesus taught, who do you say that he is?