Why are Democrats against workers accumulating $500,000???

[healthmyths]

Democrats 2012 Democratic National Platform
http://assets.dstatic.org/dnc-platform/2012-National-Platform.pdf
States ..."We will block Republican efforts to subject Americans’ guaranteed retirement income to the whims of the stock market through privatization."

Why are Democrats afraid of people putting their payroll taxes into their local bank?
This is one of many options that "privatizing" social security would be available to the average worker!

So why are Democrats afraid of letting the "people" choose if they want to have the total paid in of a 25 year old worker for 40 years at 15.3% of wages put into their local bank which would pay over 40 years an average of 2%.
Why are Democrats afraid of the little people as they call them, see the payroll taxes paid over 40 years of $378,000 accumulate at a modest 2% rate to $521,194?
Why are they afraid of letting the little people when from age 25 to age 45 accumulate in the "risky stock market" that has averaged over 70 years 6%, then at age 45 split
into less risky at say 4% and then at 65 at US treasury certificates at 2%?

Why are the Democrats afraid of an "educated little worker" who accumulates doing the above..$858,007?
Buying a $500,000 annuity guaranteeing for life a payment of $2,642 per month and using the remaining $358,000 for health care and dies after age 75.
After using $200,000 over the years for health care leaves $150,000 for his family!

SO why do democrats hate the possibility that anyone under age 55 can have the choice of remaining in the current program or the choice of determining where
the payment of $378,000 deducted from his wages and from Employer will be invested? Local bank or "risky stock market" let the individual choose!
Why do Democrats hate the freedom of choice for the "little worker"???
https://www.tsp.gov/planningtools/annuities/annuityCalc_results.shtml

You must of never heard of Enron. You know the private sector you are babling on about, where people lost their retirements on what they thought were sound investments. Throw in Bernie Madoff for good measure.

Yes I heard about Solyndra, and the dot.com bust losing $5 trillion but that is what are called VENTURE capital investments!
YOU don't put your money in VENTURE capital and expect to have as the FACTS have shown a 9% average return for over 100 years!

AND you are taking the rare rare exceptions and like all disgusting liberal Democrats MAKING IT THE RULE!!

YOU tell me are you in favor of government investment of your payroll taxes to these:

Slobodien compiled a list of the 12 members of the Green Graveyard—companies that received taxpayer money for green initiatives yet have filed for bankruptcy.
Abound Solar (Loveland, Colorado), manufacturer of thin film photovoltaic modules.
Beacon Power (Tyngsborough, Massachusetts), designed and developed advanced products and services to support stable, reliable and efficient electricity grid operation.
Ener1 (Indianapolis, Indiana), built compact lithium-ion-powered battery solutions for hybrid and electric cars.
Energy Conversion Devices (Rochester Hills, Michigan/Auburn Hills, Michigan), manufacturer of flexible thin film photovoltaic (PV) technology and a producer of batteries and other renewable energy-related products.
Evergreen Solar, Inc. (Marlborough, Massachusetts), manufactured and installed solar panels.
Mountain Plaza, Inc. (Dandridge, Tennessee), designed and implemented “truck-stop electrification” technology.
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsens Mills Acquisition Co. (Berlin, Wisconsin), a private company producing ethanol.
Range Fuels (Soperton, Georgia), tried to develop a technology that converted biomass into ethanol without the use of enzymes.
Raser Technologies (Provo, Utah), geothermal power plants and technology licensing.
Solyndra (Fremont, California), manufacturer of cylindrical panels of thin-film solar cells.
Spectrawatt (Hopewell, New York), solar cell manufacturer.
Thompson River Power LLC (Wayzata, Minnesota), designed and developed advanced products and services to support stable, reliable and efficient electricity grid operation.
Some lawmakers are looking for a solution. The aptly named No More Solyndras Act would prohibit any new loan guarantees from Title XVII of the Energy Policy Act of 2005.
Morning Bell: The Green Graveyard of Taxpayer-Funded Failures | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News Blog from The Heritage Foundation

 

[pjnlsn]

It's a little odd that so many support, or decry the opposite, policies which wouldn't effect them.

In any case, this recession they say has improved, but mostly in the sense of profits made; iirc unemployment is still fairly high. And, indeed, there has been a long term trend, for a decade or two, of wages falling relative to production value, and wealth disappearing from the lower and middle classes, and accumulating at the top.

 

[healthmyths]

Again just to short -circuit some of these idiotic comments..
NO ONE would be forced to discontinue their current social security program!
NO ONE who chooses to determine where their payroll taxes would go would be able to invest your uncle's perpetual motion machine!
ANY ONE who chooses can put their payroll taxes in US TREASURIES just Social security is doing NOW but it would BE THE worker's money!
ANY ONE who wants to can put it into their local bank! FDIC insured!
OK?? So tell me why do Democrats hate people having control over their own money in favor of politicians/Federal bureaucrats having control?

 

[Dutch]

Too many people would invest their money in crackpot schemes, end up broke in their old age, and then demand the Federal government support them anyway.

Too many people would not invest any money at all, end up broke in their old age, and then demand the Federal government support them anyway.

There are people in this forum who are so stupid I sometimes wonder how they manage to get oxygen into their mouths, much less know how to wisely handle their investments.

Boy you really are down on the average american aren't you?
You obviously are one of those effete elitist snobs who thinks the AVERAGE American is a boob!
"Over the past two decades, 401(k) accounts have become the dominant form of retirement plan for American workers, covering 70 million people and representing $2.8 trillion in assets in 2006 (U.S. Dept. of Labor (2008)).

In 2006.

And what were those assets worth at the end of 2008, genius?



401(k) losses: Older investors' retirement funds hit hard

Today, 401(k) plans are the major source of retirement income for millions of Americans. The bear market underscores their risks.

"We're seeing that those funds were never guaranteed, that the stock market can go down and stay down and that the fees can erode earnings and contributions so that people end up with less than they put in," says Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economics at the New School for Social Research in New York.

Recently, General Motors said it would suspend its matching contribution to the 401(k) plan for its salaried employees. "All the risks and responsibilities are on the individuals in 401(k) plans," says Karen Friedman, policy director at the Pension Rights Center, an advocacy group.

Among their options:

• Work longer. Alex Dudas, a manufacturing engineer in Torrance Calif., who is 61, says that he will now have to work longer before he can retire because his retirement plans are down about 43%.

Democrats 2012 Democratic National Platform
http://assets.dstatic.org/dnc-platform/2012-National-Platform.pdf
States ..."We will block Republican efforts to subject Americans’ guaranteed retirement income to the whims of the stock market through privatization."

Why are Democrats afraid of people putting their payroll taxes into their local bank?
This is one of many options that "privatizing" social security would be available to the average worker!

So why are Democrats afraid of letting the "people" choose if they want to have the total paid in of a 25 year old worker for 40 years at 15.3% of wages put into their local bank which would pay over 40 years an average of 2%.
Why are Democrats afraid of the little people as they call them, see the payroll taxes paid over 40 years of $378,000 accumulate at a modest 2% rate to $521,194?
Why are they afraid of letting the little people when from age 25 to age 45 accumulate in the "risky stock market" that has averaged over 70 years 6%, then at age 45 split
into less risky at say 4% and then at 65 at US treasury certificates at 2%?

Why are the Democrats afraid of an "educated little worker" who accumulates doing the above..$858,007?
Buying a $500,000 annuity guaranteeing for life a payment of $2,642 per month and using the remaining $358,000 for health care and dies after age 75.
After using $200,000 over the years for health care leaves $150,000 for his family!

SO why do democrats hate the possibility that anyone under age 55 can have the choice of remaining in the current program or the choice of determining where
the payment of $378,000 deducted from his wages and from Employer will be invested? Local bank or "risky stock market" let the individual choose!
Why do Democrats hate the freedom of choice for the "little worker"???
https://www.tsp.gov/planningtools/annuities/annuityCalc_results.shtml

You must of never heard of Enron. You know the private sector you are babling on about, where people lost their retirements on what they thought were sound investments. Throw in Bernie Madoff for good measure.

Yes I heard about Solyndra, and the dot.com bust losing $5 trillion but that is what are called VENTURE capital investments!
YOU don't put your money in VENTURE capital and expect to have as the FACTS have shown a 9% average return for over 100 years!

AND you are taking the rare rare exceptions and like all disgusting liberal Democrats MAKING IT THE RULE!!

YOU tell me are you in favor of government investment of your payroll taxes to these:

Slobodien compiled a list of the 12 members of the Green Graveyard—companies that received taxpayer money for green initiatives yet have filed for bankruptcy.
Abound Solar (Loveland, Colorado), manufacturer of thin film photovoltaic modules.
Beacon Power (Tyngsborough, Massachusetts), designed and developed advanced products and services to support stable, reliable and efficient electricity grid operation.
Ener1 (Indianapolis, Indiana), built compact lithium-ion-powered battery solutions for hybrid and electric cars.
Energy Conversion Devices (Rochester Hills, Michigan/Auburn Hills, Michigan), manufacturer of flexible thin film photovoltaic (PV) technology and a producer of batteries and other renewable energy-related products.
Evergreen Solar, Inc. (Marlborough, Massachusetts), manufactured and installed solar panels.
Mountain Plaza, Inc. (Dandridge, Tennessee), designed and implemented “truck-stop electrification” technology.
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsens Mills Acquisition Co. (Berlin, Wisconsin), a private company producing ethanol.
Range Fuels (Soperton, Georgia), tried to develop a technology that converted biomass into ethanol without the use of enzymes.
Raser Technologies (Provo, Utah), geothermal power plants and technology licensing.
Solyndra (Fremont, California), manufacturer of cylindrical panels of thin-film solar cells.
Spectrawatt (Hopewell, New York), solar cell manufacturer.
Thompson River Power LLC (Wayzata, Minnesota), designed and developed advanced products and services to support stable, reliable and efficient electricity grid operation.
Some lawmakers are looking for a solution. The aptly named No More Solyndras Act would prohibit any new loan guarantees from Title XVII of the Energy Policy Act of 2005.
Morning Bell: The Green Graveyard of Taxpayer-Funded Failures | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News Blog from The Heritage Foundation

Enron was not vulture capitalism numbnuts, it was largely 401Ks that were destroyed. Name the last time SS failed to pay someone who was eligible to recieve it.

 

[rightwinger]

Again just to short -circuit some of these idiotic comments..
NO ONE would be forced to discontinue their current social security program!
NO ONE who chooses to determine where their payroll taxes would go would be able to invest your uncle's perpetual motion machine!
ANY ONE who chooses can put their payroll taxes in US TREASURIES just Social security is doing NOW but it would BE THE worker's money!
ANY ONE who wants to can put it into their local bank! FDIC insured!
OK?? So tell me why do Democrats hate people having control over their own money in favor of politicians/Federal bureaucrats having control?

Who pays for currently retired workers?

 

[healthmyths]

They’re not, provided every worker can indeed have that available to him come retirement, along with health insurance.

But that’s not how the real world works for middle and low income Americans, where the relatively small amount of tax savings would be used for emergencies and other living expanses.

The genius of the Social Security Act was its understanding of human nature, and human failings. Society has a right through various government programs to protect itself from those who are unable or unwilling to save for retirement, thus avoiding the destruction of human lives seen in the wake of the Great Depression.

Conservatives have contrived this myth that workers are ‘losing out’ on money as a consequence of Social Security, when the facts indicate the opposite.

We must reject the ignorant fiscal dogma of the right and maintain the current system that has worked so well over the decades.

NO we must FIGHT the Anti-American way of being INDEPENDENT of the government!
Do you know that 37% of the TAX revenue COMES from FICA/MEDICARE payments BY employee AND EMPLOYER???
That is thievery!
Why are you so hateful of the common man given the opportunity of accumulating $500,000?
They can have it as I've proven with the analysis that given the majority of workers had the opportunity just to put their payroll taxes
into a local bank at 3% accumulates over 40 years $500,000!
NOW of course the GOP plan NEVER stated EVERYONE had to go on to the "privatization" because that is NOT workable!
What about the worker that becomes disabled? A small percentage and from the privatization payments there could be that type of
payment arrangement for ALL workers who choose the right to determine WHERE their money goes!
NOthing wrong with a disability insurance plan as part of the forced payment program!
Then the government is OUT of the business of supporting workers who become disabled!
Why can't that work? It does with the ordinary individual who buys with AFTER tax dollars disability insurance and that is unfair to them!

NO people like you just want to control people like me and those of us who would LIKE to have had the chance to dictate WHERE my payroll taxes went instead of these taxes used to pay the following EXTREMELY wasteful and distasteful use of MY payroll taxes!!!

Tell me you are OK with the following uses of your payroll taxes???


The USA Federal government spent:
- $2.6 million to make sure prostitutes in China drink less on the job.

- $1.44 million in federal funds estimating the size of the population and examining the “social milieu” of male prostitutes in Hanoi & Ho Chi Minh City,

- Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties

- Studying pig poop. The EPA awarded a $141,450 grant under the Clean Air Act to fund a Chinese study on swine manure

- a $1.2 million grant to the United Nations for clean fuel promotion.

$750,000 to restore a 16th-century tomb complex in India,
$700,000 to conserve ruins in Tanzania,
$600,000 for the “temple of the winged lions” in Jordan and
$450,000 for the conservation of a 10th century temple in Cambodia. Those were just the big ticket projects.
Hundreds of thousands more went to smaller causes throughout the world.

How much of that came from Social Security?

Well YOU tell me where that money comes from when you see where your payroll taxes go!'

Did you know
In 2011 this was the Total Federal Revenues and sources:REPEAT this is total Revenue sources for Federal Government!!!

• Personal income tax $1,015 47.4% people that work for companies that work for profits primarily.
• Social security/Medicare tax 818 35.5% employer pays Half of total paid-- where will that come from???
• Corporate income tax 181 7.8% corporate evil profits generate taxes - then dividends taxed again!
• Customs,Duties, Misc. 131 5.7%
• Excise taxes 72 3.1%
• Estate & Gift 7 0.4%

Total: $2,302 100%
Federal Revenues by Source

The entire federal revenue COUNTS social security/Medicare as gross revenue!
So when the expenses come through do you think that EXCLUDE the $818 billion of your payroll taxes and say oh we're not counting that as revenue???
Come on you can't be that naive!

 

[rightwinger]

NO we must FIGHT the Anti-American way of being INDEPENDENT of the government!
Do you know that 37% of the TAX revenue COMES from FICA/MEDICARE payments BY employee AND EMPLOYER???
That is thievery!
Why are you so hateful of the common man given the opportunity of accumulating $500,000?
They can have it as I've proven with the analysis that given the majority of workers had the opportunity just to put their payroll taxes
into a local bank at 3% accumulates over 40 years $500,000!
NOW of course the GOP plan NEVER stated EVERYONE had to go on to the "privatization" because that is NOT workable!
What about the worker that becomes disabled? A small percentage and from the privatization payments there could be that type of
payment arrangement for ALL workers who choose the right to determine WHERE their money goes!
NOthing wrong with a disability insurance plan as part of the forced payment program!
Then the government is OUT of the business of supporting workers who become disabled!
Why can't that work? It does with the ordinary individual who buys with AFTER tax dollars disability insurance and that is unfair to them!

NO people like you just want to control people like me and those of us who would LIKE to have had the chance to dictate WHERE my payroll taxes went instead of these taxes used to pay the following EXTREMELY wasteful and distasteful use of MY payroll taxes!!!

Tell me you are OK with the following uses of your payroll taxes???


The USA Federal government spent:
- $2.6 million to make sure prostitutes in China drink less on the job.

- $1.44 million in federal funds estimating the size of the population and examining the “social milieu” of male prostitutes in Hanoi & Ho Chi Minh City,

- Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties

- Studying pig poop. The EPA awarded a $141,450 grant under the Clean Air Act to fund a Chinese study on swine manure

- a $1.2 million grant to the United Nations for clean fuel promotion.

$750,000 to restore a 16th-century tomb complex in India,
$700,000 to conserve ruins in Tanzania,
$600,000 for the “temple of the winged lions” in Jordan and
$450,000 for the conservation of a 10th century temple in Cambodia. Those were just the big ticket projects.
Hundreds of thousands more went to smaller causes throughout the world.

How much of that came from Social Security?

Well YOU tell me where that money comes from when you see where your payroll taxes go!'

Did you know
In 2011 this was the Total Federal Revenues and sources:REPEAT this is total Revenue sources for Federal Government!!!

• Personal income tax $1,015 47.4% people that work for companies that work for profits primarily.
• Social security/Medicare tax 818 35.5% employer pays Half of total paid-- where will that come from???
• Corporate income tax 181 7.8% corporate evil profits generate taxes - then dividends taxed again!
• Customs,Duties, Misc. 131 5.7%
• Excise taxes 72 3.1%
• Estate & Gift 7 0.4%

Total: $2,302 100%
Federal Revenues by Source

The entire federal revenue COUNTS social security/Medicare as gross revenue!
So when the expenses come through do you think that EXCLUDE the $818 billion of your payroll taxes and say oh we're not counting that as revenue???
Come on you can't be that naive!

You didn't answer the question

If you divert money from Social Security. who pays for existing retirees?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Americans just had a 2 year payroll tax cut. How many do you suppose invested all of that in a retirement fund?

1%?

 

[zeke]

Too many people would invest their money in crackpot schemes, end up broke in their old age, and then demand the Federal government support them anyway.

Too many people would not invest any money at all, end up broke in their old age, and then demand the Federal government support them anyway.

There are people in this forum who are so stupid I sometimes wonder how they manage to get oxygen into their mouths, much less know how to wisely handle their investments.

Boy you really are down on the average american aren't you?
You obviously are one of those effete elitist snobs who thinks the AVERAGE American is a boob!"Over the past two decades, 401(k) accounts have become the dominant form of retirement plan for American workers, covering 70 million people and representing $2.8 trillion in assets in 2006 (U.S. Dept. of Labor (2008)).

And so you think that at least 70 million people WOULDN"T love to have had ALL their payroll taxes put into an account SIMILAR to what they do with their 401K???
YOU think that 70 million people are boobs???

Again... YOU stupid hyperbolic "too many" WHAT too many???
They would have NO ACCESS to the money.
They would have ACCEPTED places to put!
YOU can't use your 401K to invest in idiots like you who think the porno site is a good investment!
There would be restrictions as to where and what you can invest in..
local banks fine.. buy gold sure! Buy treasury bills.. of course!
So again what makes yOU be so pompous as to denigrate the average American... What a dick head!!!

Two things come to mind. What fuking planet do you live on? But really, that "average American" part was touching. Are you thinking of the same "average American" that laid themselves away in the housing bubble. And then promptly lost their collective ass.

Are you talking about those "average Americans"?

And surely you are not thinking of having the hated government make the rules, restrictions, monitor adherence and such that you mentioned above. So who would do all that?

And if this should all happen the way you envision, and people lost all their money, what would the back up plan be?