Why are Republicans afraid of Ron Paul?

[GoneBezerk]

You are just like the anti-war nuts and OWS crowd, but too stupid to know it.

Idiot, you've said many times here our military actions in the middle east led to 9/11. Afterall they were just repsonding to us and our support of Israel.

You've also pushed for gutting the DoD budget, that isn't supporting the troops.

We know your kind, you hide behind the military when 9/11 happens but then blame the military and trash all the spending years after the dust settles.

Pretty much anyone that supports Ron Paul supports his 9/11 theories and anti-military (MIC) stance.

Oh, pulling back the troops to within our own borders doesn't help the US military, you've only made the job worse. Leaving the world's hotspot regions only gives the evil ones the idea of actually starting a war. There is a reason why we stayed in Europe after WWII, idiot.

My anti-military rants?? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm going to assume you have some posts to quote to display my "anti-military" stance, right?

And to preempt you, you understand that non-interventionism does not even REMOTELY equal anti-military. I'm all for arming to the bone and locking and loading our military for a potential fight against an enemy.

So this being said, I'll await your citations.

And this is in any way "anti-military"?

You do understand what the prefix "anti" means, right?

 

[Full-Auto]

Actually, you're the idiot supporting Ron Paul.

You and him are fringe people.

Most Americans (gasp) even Democrats understand the evil threats out there that you and Ron Paul ignore.

Pretty much you are in bed with he wacko left that hates this country and the US military too, congrats. The OWS crowd and other anarchists would love you anti-US people at their rallies....

He is irrelevant, that is why he comes in last or 3rd in most races.

Just because we acknowledge he is nuts doesn't make him relevant. That would be....nuts.

Yeah, relevancy is based on winning alone, and nothing else

Relevancy couldn't possibly be based on how someone might shape the future of the party, affect potential platform changes, possibly have a keynote speech at the convention.

You're an idiot, sir.

Well if supporting the principles of Paul makes you fringe.

Then supporting Romney is approval to run up the debt. Approval to continue to infringe and eliminate rights.

Approval of nanny government.


Makes us fringers look good.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Romney being a businessman and a former Gov of a major state understands cutting debt better than an old doctor from Texas that went into politics.

Romney is going to kill Obamacare, reign in the EPA, lower corporate and personal income taxes, maintain the DoD strength to prevent more wars, etc.

Ron Paul would just slash everything which in the long run damage our ability to prevent a World War, which is more costly than Iraq and Afghanistan x 10.

Actually, you're the idiot supporting Ron Paul.

You and him are fringe people.

Most Americans (gasp) even Democrats understand the evil threats out there that you and Ron Paul ignore.

Pretty much you are in bed with he wacko left that hates this country and the US military too, congrats. The OWS crowd and other anarchists would love you anti-US people at their rallies....

Yeah, relevancy is based on winning alone, and nothing else

Relevancy couldn't possibly be based on how someone might shape the future of the party, affect potential platform changes, possibly have a keynote speech at the convention.

You're an idiot, sir.

Well if supporting the principles of Paul makes you fringe.

Then supporting Romney is approval to run up the debt. Approval to continue to infringe and eliminate rights.

Approval of nanny government.


Makes us fringers look good.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Our government used to be a libertarian government but the constitution has been subverted and our rights slowly eroded. All I want is my constitution back along with my government and if you don't lik it FUCK YOU TRAITOR!!!!

Hmmm. You're rather prone to hysterics, aren't you? Do try to calm down.

So when was our country Libertarian? I mean, before we were even a country, we had social programs, gave away land and taxpayer money and so on.
So when was this time of pure Libertarianism and how long did it last? I'm curious!

Oh and btw, when and wear did you wear a uniform in the service of your country? What exactly do you give to your country now?

I wore mine from '80 - 84 under Reagan, in the US, Eastern Europe and a couple CIS countries. I currently serve as the National Director of a charity that helps returning troops and veterans get jobs and re-adjust to civilian life. of course, i only work there about 10 hours a week but you know, it's something anyway.
Since you're so quick to call anyone who disagrees with you in any way a "traitor", I'll be curious to hear what a "real patriot" is like.

 

[dblack]

Since you're so quick to call anyone who disagrees with you in any way a "traitor", I'll be curious to hear what a "real patriot" is like.

I think a real patriot respects the rights of individuals and doesn't assume that the majority can simply say "Fuck you!" to the minority and do as it pleases, as you suggested.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Since you're so quick to call anyone who disagrees with you in any way a "traitor", I'll be curious to hear what a "real patriot" is like.

I think a real patriot respects the rights of individuals and doesn't assume that the majority can simply say "Fuck you!" to the minority and do as it pleases, as you suggested.

Hmmm. I guess you misunderstood. My issue was with the minority wanting to rule the majority. This is why we have a Constitution, checks and balances, a USSC to interpret whether new laws adhere, a Congress to amend or over-ride and all kinds of other wonderful stuff!
So if the majority said murder should be okay, it wouldn't fly. But letting women vote? yeah that went okay.
And so on.

 

[LibertyForAll]

Since you're so quick to call anyone who disagrees with you in any way a "traitor", I'll be curious to hear what a "real patriot" is like.

I think a real patriot respects the rights of individuals and doesn't assume that the majority can simply say "Fuck you!" to the minority and do as it pleases, as you suggested.

Hmmm. I guess you misunderstood. My issue was with the minority wanting to rule the majority. This is why we have a Constitution, checks and balances, a USSC to interpret whether new laws adhere, a Congress to amend or over-ride and all kinds of other wonderful stuff!
So if the majority said murder should be okay, it wouldn't fly. But letting women vote? yeah that went okay.
And so on.

This isn't about you disagreeing with me it's about how your statement came off to me.
What you said that implied you were okay with the oppression of the minority by the majority. I took offense to that as to me that's an affront to the constitution. We do not have a democracy and there are good reasons for it, Majority rule doesn't guarantee that the rights of the individual are protected and is antithetical to what the founders intended. If you believe that's what America should be then you are a traitor to the constitution. The constitution allows for every voice to be heard and for those who are more involved to have a greater voice than others who sit idly by. Women are a minority as are blacks would you have them not have an equal say in government?

To your other point. I didn't serve in the military but that doesn't make me less of a patriot than you. I think then revolving door policy is used as a method to indoctrinate young people and teach them to follow orders from the government. The government inflates the price of college and then offers military service as a means to get a discounted education. Once in they break you down and teach you to follow orders and teach their brand of patriotism. No thanks! I earned my own education and kept my independence. If a threat arose like that of nazi germany then I would lay down my life for my country but we haven't had a legal war in 70 years. I feel bad for those that were sen toff to die to line the pockets of the greedy MIC and I applaud you for helping those retuning. I hope they all come back

 

[Wacky Quacky]

I think a real patriot respects the rights of individuals and doesn't assume that the majority can simply say "Fuck you!" to the minority and do as it pleases, as you suggested.

Hmmm. I guess you misunderstood. My issue was with the minority wanting to rule the majority. This is why we have a Constitution, checks and balances, a USSC to interpret whether new laws adhere, a Congress to amend or over-ride and all kinds of other wonderful stuff!
So if the majority said murder should be okay, it wouldn't fly. But letting women vote? yeah that went okay.
And so on.

This isn't about you disagreeing with me it's about how your statement came off to me.
What you said that implied you were okay with the oppression of the minority by the majority. I took offense to that as to me that's an affront to the constitution. We do not have a democracy and there are good reasons for it, Majority rule doesn't guarantee that the rights of the individual are protected and is antithetical to what the founders intended. If you believe that's what America should be then you are a traitor to the constitution. The constitution allows for every voice to be heard and for those who are more involved to have a greater voice than others who sit idly by. Women are a minority as are blacks would you have them not have an equal say in government?

To your other point. I didn't serve in the military but that doesn't make me less of a patriot than you. I think then revolving door policy is used as a method to indoctrinate young people and teach them to follow orders from the government. The government inflates the price of college and then offers military service as a means to get a discounted education. Once in they break you down and teach you to follow orders and teach their brand of patriotism. No thanks! I earned my own education and kept my independence. If a threat arose like that of nazi germany then I would lay down my life for my country but we haven't had a legal war in 70 years. I feel bad for those that were sen toff to die to line the pockets of the greedy MIC and I applaud you for helping those retuning. I hope they all come back

To a certain degree, if the military was an indoctrination method, it failed miserably. I was in the Marine Corps for four years and can say with absolute certainty that the services are direct cross section of society, faults and all. There was no "Hail government" mentality in there. The majority of people I knew thought our politicians were just as retarded as civilians do.

 

[IndependntLogic]

I think a real patriot respects the rights of individuals and doesn't assume that the majority can simply say "Fuck you!" to the minority and do as it pleases, as you suggested.

Hmmm. I guess you misunderstood. My issue was with the minority wanting to rule the majority. This is why we have a Constitution, checks and balances, a USSC to interpret whether new laws adhere, a Congress to amend or over-ride and all kinds of other wonderful stuff!
So if the majority said murder should be okay, it wouldn't fly. But letting women vote? yeah that went okay.
And so on.

This isn't about you disagreeing with me it's about how your statement came off to me.
Have you ever misunderstood something? jus' sayin'

What you said that implied you were okay with the oppression of the minority by the majority.
See my comment above.

I took offense to that as to me that's an affront to the constitution. We do not have a democracy and there are good reasons for it, Majority rule doesn't guarantee that the rights of the individual are protected and is antithetical to what the founders intended. If you believe that's what America should be then you are a traitor to the constitution.
Hmmm. Try reading what i posted again. It's rather obvious you didn't comprehend it on first read.
You love defining anyone who has a differing view than yours, as being a traitor. You realize of course, that this has almost invariably the attitude of the most oppresive dictators, right? Something to consider.

The constitution allows for every voice to be heard and for those who are more involved to have a greater voice than others who sit idly by. Women are a minority as are blacks would you have them not have an equal say in government?

To your other point. I didn't serve in the military but that doesn't make me less of a patriot than you.
No it doesn't. But those of us who have put our ass on the line in the service of our country, rarely take kindly to pamphlet patriots sitting in the safety of their home and throwing out the traitor insult as freely as you do. So on behalf of all of us who have served, fuck you.

I think then revolving door policy is used as a method to indoctrinate young people and teach them to follow orders from the government. The government inflates the price of college and then offers military service as a means to get a discounted education. Once in they break you down and teach you to follow orders and teach their brand of patriotism. No thanks! I earned my own education and kept my independence.
Do you always speak so arrogantly from a place of complete ignorance? You obviously don't know squat about the military. While the majority of those who serve are genuinely patriotic, few are fond of politicians and guess what? A lot of us had a degree before we accepted our commission.

If a threat arose like that of nazi germany then I would lay down my life for my country but we haven't had a legal war in 70 years. I feel bad for those that were sen toff to die to line the pockets of the greedy MIC and I applaud you for helping those retuning. I hope they all come back

Actually, we've had several very real threats to our country and citizenry. You heard about one: 9/11. You never heard of the others and this is intentional. Sleep soundly as you continue questioning the patriot of anyone who doesn't read the same little pamphlets you do.

 

[Oddball]

So when was our country Libertarian? I mean, before we were even a country, we had social programs, gave away land and taxpayer money and so on.
So when was this time of pure Libertarianism and how long did it last? I'm curious!

For its first 150 years, up until the onset of the progressive era, which started a little more than 100 years ago....During that time, America went from being a dirt poor frontier republic to one of the world's economic super powers in an historically unprecedented time span.

Lemmie guess...You think that history began the day you were born, huh?

 

[IndependntLogic]

So when was our country Libertarian? I mean, before we were even a country, we had social programs, gave away land and taxpayer money and so on.
So when was this time of pure Libertarianism and how long did it last? I'm curious!

For its first 150 years, up until the onset of the progressive era, which started a little more than 100 years ago....During that time, America went from being a dirt poor frontier republic to one of the world's economic super powers in an historically unprecedented time span.

Lemmie guess...You think that history began the day you were born, huh?

Inferiority complex showing again there Oddball? it's okay, we all understand why you can't respond to any of my post without it showing.
So the USA was libertarian until right about when that danm meddling Republican freed those slaves and interfered with a perfectly good free market commodity, eh? Then they let women vote! Eliminated child labor! Required coal mines to meet minimum safety standards! Hell, they even let the coloreds go to perfectly good white schools!
Yeah, I could see where that would be the point when a Libertarian like you would say the country was no good anymore...
Fortunately, I have met Libertarians irl who are actually quite intelligent, well-educated and successful so I don't judge the entire group by the occasional one who is well, let's just go with "different".

 

[buckeye45_73]

I'm not afraid of Paul, I'm just not big on his social issues. Somehow legalizing drugs and prostitution doesnt seem like a good idea, maybe it's just me. Economically he's pretty awesome. Hell they should make him Secretary of the Treasury.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Crazy people always brings a tinge of fear to me... Especially if on the surface they appear to be sane.

 

[Oddball]

So when was our country Libertarian? I mean, before we were even a country, we had social programs, gave away land and taxpayer money and so on.
So when was this time of pure Libertarianism and how long did it last? I'm curious!

For its first 150 years, up until the onset of the progressive era, which started a little more than 100 years ago....During that time, America went from being a dirt poor frontier republic to one of the world's economic super powers in an historically unprecedented time span.

Lemmie guess...You think that history began the day you were born, huh?

Inferiority complex showing again there Oddball? it's okay, we all understand why you can't respond to any of my post without it showing.
So the USA was libertarian until right about when that deanm meddling Republican freed those slaves and interfered with a perfectly good free market commodity, eh? Then they let women vote! Eliminated child labor! Required coal mones to meet minimum safety standards! Hell, they even let the coloreds go to perfectly good white schools!
Yeah, I could see where that would be the point when a Libertarian like you would say the country was no good anymore...
Fortunately, I have met Libertarians irl who are actually quite intelligent, well-educated and successful so I don't judge the entire group by the occasional one who is well, let's just go with "different".

First off, you can quit projecting your neuroses and foibles onto others.

After that, you can check your dates and notice that the slaves were freed pretty much in the middle of the aforementioned 150 year time frame....Now, that's some progress.

After that, you can quit *ahem* assuming that I'm implying that just because I've busted your ass on when America was indeed a libertarian society, that I'm automatically for child labor, no mine safety regs, segregation, etcetera.....This is what we call red herring, non sequitur and appeal to emotion.

For someone who claims to be so stunningly brilliant, you keep committing these same grade-school debate club errors...Maybe you're not even half as smart as you'd like people to believe you are.

 

[LibertyForAll]

Hmmm. I guess you misunderstood. My issue was with the minority wanting to rule the majority. This is why we have a Constitution, checks and balances, a USSC to interpret whether new laws adhere, a Congress to amend or over-ride and all kinds of other wonderful stuff!
So if the majority said murder should be okay, it wouldn't fly. But letting women vote? yeah that went okay.
And so on.

This isn't about you disagreeing with me it's about how your statement came off to me.
Have you ever misunderstood something? jus' sayin'

What you said that implied you were okay with the oppression of the minority by the majority.
See my comment above.

I took offense to that as to me that's an affront to the constitution. We do not have a democracy and there are good reasons for it, Majority rule doesn't guarantee that the rights of the individual are protected and is antithetical to what the founders intended. If you believe that's what America should be then you are a traitor to the constitution.
Hmmm. Try reading what i posted again. It's rather obvious you didn't comprehend it on first read.
You love defining anyone who has a differing view than yours, as being a traitor. You realize of course, that this has almost invariably the attitude of the most oppresive dictators, right? Something to consider.

The constitution allows for every voice to be heard and for those who are more involved to have a greater voice than others who sit idly by. Women are a minority as are blacks would you have them not have an equal say in government?

To your other point. I didn't serve in the military but that doesn't make me less of a patriot than you.
No it doesn't. But those of us who have put our ass on the line in the service of our country, rarely take kindly to pamphlet patriots sitting in the safety of their home and throwing out the traitor insult as freely as you do. So on behalf of all of us who have served, fuck you.

I think then revolving door policy is used as a method to indoctrinate young people and teach them to follow orders from the government. The government inflates the price of college and then offers military service as a means to get a discounted education. Once in they break you down and teach you to follow orders and teach their brand of patriotism. No thanks! I earned my own education and kept my independence.
Do you always speak so arrogantly from a place of complete ignorance? You obviously don't know squat about the military. While the majority of those who serve are genuinely patriotic, few are fond of politicians and guess what? A lot of us had a degree before we accepted our commission.

If a threat arose like that of nazi germany then I would lay down my life for my country but we haven't had a legal war in 70 years. I feel bad for those that were sen toff to die to line the pockets of the greedy MIC and I applaud you for helping those retuning. I hope they all come back

Actually, we've had several very real threats to our country and citizenry. You heard about one: 9/11. You never heard of the others and this is intentional. Sleep soundly as you continue questioning the patriot of anyone who doesn't read the same little pamphlets you do.

I apologize if I misunderstood your statement and questioned your patriotism. It wasn't because you disagreed with me it was because of what I thought you meant.

Thank you for putting your ass on the line.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Crazy people always brings a tinge of fear to me... Especially if on the surface they appear to be sane.

Big black dog, dont you know of the seperation of church and message board avatars?

 

[IndependntLogic]

For its first 150 years, up until the onset of the progressive era, which started a little more than 100 years ago....During that time, America went from being a dirt poor frontier republic to one of the world's economic super powers in an historically unprecedented time span.

Lemmie guess...You think that history began the day you were born, huh?

Inferiority complex showing again there Oddball? it's okay, we all understand why you can't respond to any of my post without it showing.
So the USA was libertarian until right about when that deanm meddling Republican freed those slaves and interfered with a perfectly good free market commodity, eh? Then they let women vote! Eliminated child labor! Required coal mones to meet minimum safety standards! Hell, they even let the coloreds go to perfectly good white schools!
Yeah, I could see where that would be the point when a Libertarian like you would say the country was no good anymore...
Fortunately, I have met Libertarians irl who are actually quite intelligent, well-educated and successful so I don't judge the entire group by the occasional one who is well, let's just go with "different".

First off, you can quit projecting your neuroses and foibles onto others.

After that, you can check your dates and notice that the slaves were freed pretty much in the middle of the aforementioned 150 year time frame....Now, that's some progress.

After that, you can quit *ahem* assuming that I'm implying that just because I've busted your ass on when America was indeed a libertarian society, that I'm automatically for child labor, no mine safety regs, segregation, etcetera.....This is what we call red herring, non sequitur and appeal to emotion.

For someone who claims to be so stunningly brilliant, you keep committing these same grade-school debate club errors...Maybe you're not even half as smart as you'd like people to believe you are.

Awww Oddball, my poor little Inferiority complex victim. I feel badly for you. Why is this evident to anyone with a basic uppergrad education that included pysch101? You keep saying I claim to be "so stunningly brilliant", "so incredibly intelligent" and so on. Shall I provide links to a few posts where you have done this? So the problem is that I've never made such claims. Thus, you're use of the phrase "projection" is laughably ironic. Do you understand? If not, find one of those darn educated Liberal Elitist and ask them to explain it to you.

So to directly address your post (again). You claim that America was Libertarian prior to what year, specifically?
In the mean time, from our very beginning, the U.S government has had social programs that were not specified in the USC. Our government hase regulated private industry. Our government has given taxpayer money to private industry and helped companies and so on.
So perhaps you would be so kind as to enlighten us as to how the USA was Libertarian while doing all those things?

 

[Oddball]

The claims are implied in your pompous, patronizing, and overbearing manner...But I also understand the forest-for-the-trees phenomenon, so it's easy to suffer your lack of introspection.

That you cannot work out the math from roughly a century ago (the aforementioned beginning of the progressive era) and do the requisite historical homework is merely a testament to your intellectual laziness and complete lack of curiosity.

Better you than me, chump.

 

[Annie]

I apologize from the get go, I've not read through this thread, so my post may be OT at this point, I'm going from the OP title.

I'm not afraid of Ron Paul, I was intrigued when I first heard of him, even more than a bit besotted. Until I started reading a bit more on newsletters and supporters.

I'm not going to rehash that, my posts can be found regarding such by searching 2008, even a bit earlier. In any case, Those letters from the past and his supporters then, made me loath the idea of supporting someone that even was accepted into the Senate of his ilk.

Is he 'conservative'? On most issues, yes. Is he 'libertarian', indeed. So strongly that I've been hesitant to say I'm anything but a Conservative with libertarian leanings. The truth to tell, Paul like too many that claim to be libertarians are actually racist reactionaries.

It comes as no surprise to me that John Derbyshire sees himself on the same page as Ron Paul. If only the GOP would be as decisive as NRO.

 

[IndependntLogic]

The claims are implied in your pompous, patronizing, and overbearing manner...But I also understand the forest-for-the-trees phenomenon, so it's easy to suffer your lack of introspection.

That you cannot work out the math from roughly a century ago (the aforementioned beginning of the progressive era) and do the requisite historical homework is merely a testament to your intellectual laziness and complete lack of curiosity.

Better you than me, chump.

So in other words, you can't explain when and why America was ever a Libertarian government.
Yeah we knew that. it's not like you ever back up claims with specifics. This would be the difference between us.