Why Are Theists Afraid of Agnostics?

[Meriweather]

God is a spiritual being, not a physical one. What kind of physical evidence do you hope is uncovered? Isn't hoping for physical evidence of a spiritual being sort of like hoping to uncover the fingerprints of a trout?

Does God not manifest His will in the physical world? If He does not, how can one who exists in the physical world know of a non-physical existence? And what does existence itself mean if something does not exist in the physical world?

According to teachings the physical is an extension of God and Gods will unfortunately or fortunately the Bible states God gave man "Free Will", man has horribly misused it.

Would you agree that since God gave humankind free will, that He necessarily granted humankind the ability to reason? My argument being that what use is the free will to make decisions if one hasn't the ability to reason to consider the consequences or reasons for making a decision. If so, why do we need faith instead of finding God through our reasoning and choosing His salvation through free will?

I do believe in free will, and also tend to think faith the size of a mustard seed is what prompts us to find God through reasoning and prayer.

Why, is god hiding?

The more accurate question might be, "Why won't God impose Himself on us?"

God is love, and love invites. Speaking from a more human perspective, in how great a hurry are any of us to show someone a great love--only to have them reject it? How much care do we take before revealing and entrusting our love to another?

 

[Taz]

Does God not manifest His will in the physical world? If He does not, how can one who exists in the physical world know of a non-physical existence? And what does existence itself mean if something does not exist in the physical world?

According to teachings the physical is an extension of God and Gods will unfortunately or fortunately the Bible states God gave man "Free Will", man has horribly misused it.

Would you agree that since God gave humankind free will, that He necessarily granted humankind the ability to reason? My argument being that what use is the free will to make decisions if one hasn't the ability to reason to consider the consequences or reasons for making a decision. If so, why do we need faith instead of finding God through our reasoning and choosing His salvation through free will?

I do believe in free will, and also tend to think faith the size of a mustard seed is what prompts us to find God through reasoning and prayer.

Why, is god hiding?

The more accurate question might be, "Why won't God impose Himself on us?"

God is love, and love invites. Speaking from a more human perspective, in how great a hurry are any of us to show someone a great love--only to have them reject it? How much care do we take before revealing and entrusting our love to another?

So god is hiding?

 

[Meriweather]

According to teachings the physical is an extension of God and Gods will unfortunately or fortunately the Bible states God gave man "Free Will", man has horribly misused it.

Would you agree that since God gave humankind free will, that He necessarily granted humankind the ability to reason? My argument being that what use is the free will to make decisions if one hasn't the ability to reason to consider the consequences or reasons for making a decision. If so, why do we need faith instead of finding God through our reasoning and choosing His salvation through free will?

I do believe in free will, and also tend to think faith the size of a mustard seed is what prompts us to find God through reasoning and prayer.

Why, is god hiding?

The more accurate question might be, "Why won't God impose Himself on us?"

God is love, and love invites. Speaking from a more human perspective, in how great a hurry are any of us to show someone a great love--only to have them reject it? How much care do we take before revealing and entrusting our love to another?

So god is hiding?

I don't see it that way. I see it as God is waiting for us to come to Him. Through scripture, through the testimony of others, He has/is revealing Himself.

Why do you feel God is hiding from you? What is it you wish He would reveal?

 

[Taz]

Would you agree that since God gave humankind free will, that He necessarily granted humankind the ability to reason? My argument being that what use is the free will to make decisions if one hasn't the ability to reason to consider the consequences or reasons for making a decision. If so, why do we need faith instead of finding God through our reasoning and choosing His salvation through free will?

I do believe in free will, and also tend to think faith the size of a mustard seed is what prompts us to find God through reasoning and prayer.

Why, is god hiding?

I don't see it that way. I see it as God is waiting for us to come to Him. Through scripture, through the testimony of others, He has/is revealing Himself.

Why do you feel God is hiding from you? What is it you wish He would reveal?

The more accurate question might be, "Why won't God impose Himself on us?"

God is love, and love invites. Speaking from a more human perspective, in how great a hurry are any of us to show someone a great love--only to have them reject it? How much care do we take before revealing and entrusting our love to another?

So god is hiding?

Or a more appropriate question might be: WHY is god hiding?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Theists won't debate a self-proclaimed agnostic.

how do you debate with someone who has no opinion?.....

Not no opinion, my opinion is that I see no proof for or against the existence of god(s).

nothing to argue with there.......I see no proofs either......I simply choose to believe......see why we don't debate agnostics?.......nothing to argue about.......

 

[Hollie]

Theists won't debate a self-proclaimed agnostic.

how do you debate with someone who has no opinion?.....

Not no opinion, my opinion is that I see no proof for or against the existence of god(s).

nothing to argue with there.......I see no proofs either......I simply choose to believe......see why we don't debate agnostics?.......nothing to argue about.......

When have you ever debated anything?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Theists won't debate a self-proclaimed agnostic.

how do you debate with someone who has no opinion?.....

Not no opinion, my opinion is that I see no proof for or against the existence of god(s).

nothing to argue with there.......I see no proofs either......I simply choose to believe......see why we don't debate agnostics?.......nothing to argue about.......

When have you ever debated anything?

whenever I find someone worth a second's notice.........

 

[Hollie]

Theists won't debate a self-proclaimed agnostic.

how do you debate with someone who has no opinion?.....

Not no opinion, my opinion is that I see no proof for or against the existence of god(s).

nothing to argue with there.......I see no proofs either......I simply choose to believe......see why we don't debate agnostics?.......nothing to argue about.......

When have you ever debated anything?

whenever I find someone worth a second's notice.........

You really mean you understand that your limitations suggest you limit your comments to goofy one-liners.

 

[Taz]

Theists won't debate a self-proclaimed agnostic.

how do you debate with someone who has no opinion?.....

Not no opinion, my opinion is that I see no proof for or against the existence of god(s).

nothing to argue with there.......I see no proofs either......I simply choose to believe......see why we don't debate agnostics?.......nothing to argue about.......

Ok, as long as you admit that you believe despite knowing that there's no proof. In other words, you live in a fantasy world. Got it.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Theists won't debate a self-proclaimed agnostic.

how do you debate with someone who has no opinion?.....

Opinion has nothing to do with whether God exists or not. Either He does or He doesn't, whether I like it or not. My opinion is that the arguments and evidence for God is insufficient to determine that He exists, or not. If that seems wrong, how so?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Does God not manifest His will in the physical world? If He does not, how can one who exists in the physical world know of a non-physical existence? And what does existence itself mean if something does not exist in the physical world?

According to teachings the physical is an extension of God and Gods will unfortunately or fortunately the Bible states God gave man "Free Will", man has horribly misused it.

Would you agree that since God gave humankind free will, that He necessarily granted humankind the ability to reason? My argument being that what use is the free will to make decisions if one hasn't the ability to reason to consider the consequences or reasons for making a decision. If so, why do we need faith instead of finding God through our reasoning and choosing His salvation through free will?

I do believe in free will, and also tend to think faith the size of a mustard seed is what prompts us to find God through reasoning and prayer.

Why, is god hiding?

The more accurate question might be, "Why won't God impose Himself on us?"

God is love, and love invites. Speaking from a more human perspective, in how great a hurry are any of us to show someone a great love--only to have them reject it? How much care do we take before revealing and entrusting our love to another?

How can I love someone I don't know. I can read about Him in an ancient text, but that doesn't mean I would know Him. He doesn't hang out with me. We don't go do things together. We don't sit around and make each other laugh or joke about the girl who totally rejected us at our friend's party the other night. He never comes over for dinner. I can read a biography about Jefferson or JFK or Ghandi or Eisenhower, but afterwards I don't love them.

Is God subject to such human foibles: feeling hurt that I don't love Him? Doesn't He know my every thought and understand why I don't. If He wants my love, wouldn't He know exactly how to go about getting it?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Would you agree that since God gave humankind free will, that He necessarily granted humankind the ability to reason? My argument being that what use is the free will to make decisions if one hasn't the ability to reason to consider the consequences or reasons for making a decision. If so, why do we need faith instead of finding God through our reasoning and choosing His salvation through free will?

I do believe in free will, and also tend to think faith the size of a mustard seed is what prompts us to find God through reasoning and prayer.

Why, is god hiding?

The more accurate question might be, "Why won't God impose Himself on us?"

God is love, and love invites. Speaking from a more human perspective, in how great a hurry are any of us to show someone a great love--only to have them reject it? How much care do we take before revealing and entrusting our love to another?

So god is hiding?

I don't see it that way. I see it as God is waiting for us to come to Him. Through scripture, through the testimony of others, He has/is revealing Himself.

Why do you feel God is hiding from you? What is it you wish He would reveal?

Scripture and the testimony of others aren't credible sources for knowing much of anything. There are other religions that have scripture, and others of those religions who will testify with just as much sincerity. Why aren't those religions valid?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Theists won't debate a self-proclaimed agnostic.

how do you debate with someone who has no opinion?.....

Not no opinion, my opinion is that I see no proof for or against the existence of god(s).

nothing to argue with there.......I see no proofs either......I simply choose to believe......see why we don't debate agnostics?.......nothing to argue about.......

Why do choose to believe?

 

[Meriweather]

How can I love someone I don't know. I can read about Him in an ancient text, but that doesn't mean I would know Him. He doesn't hang out with me. We don't go do things together. We don't sit around and make each other laugh or joke about the girl who totally rejected us at our friend's party the other night. He never comes over for dinner. I can read a biography about Jefferson or JFK or Ghandi or Eisenhower, but afterwards I don't love them.

Is God subject to such human foibles: feeling hurt that I don't love Him? Doesn't He know my every thought and understand why I don't. If He wants my love, wouldn't He know exactly how to go about getting it?

You have hit the nail squarely on the head. We cannot love God until we begin to know Him. When I was in elementary school (Catholic), we were taught that we were to love God above all else. This worried me because the list of everyone I loved above God was quite lengthy. As we come to know God, our love of Him will grow. He is now at the top of my list...but it took a long time--and it wasn't child's play.

 

[Meriweather]

Scripture and the testimony of others aren't credible sources for knowing much of anything. There are other religions that have scripture, and others of those religions who will testify with just as much sincerity. Why aren't those religions valid?

Who says other religions/scriptures are not valid?

Speaking for myself, the Bible has proven its validity to me because its teachings are applicable--and have worked--in my own life. I do not take scripture/religion as mere theory about what sounds like it might work. I live scripture/my religion and find that it does work, and is valid.

 

[dblack]

You haven't been reading this forum lately I take it. Us theists have been pummelling everything and everyone who comes our way. Thanks for stepping up. You have a point to that catchy intro?

Pummeling is a common course for those inspired by fear.

 

[dblack]

I think theists are afraid of the move away from religion because they perceive it to be the moral "glue" that makes peaceful society possible.

 

[sealybobo]

Theists won't debate a self-proclaimed agnostic.

how do you debate with someone who has no opinion?.....

Opinion has nothing to do with whether God exists or not. Either He does or He doesn't, whether I like it or not. My opinion is that the arguments and evidence for God is insufficient to determine that He exists, or not. If that seems wrong, how so?

Well if you look at all the evidence, it seems made up to me. A theist was just telling me all these deep reasons why they believe there is a god or something that created all this. We have always asked that question from as far back as we go. Our ancient ancestors pondered that question for hundreds of thousands of years. We just don't know.

But at one point in human history, the powerful decided to use religion to control the masses. So they literally made up stories about when god visited them and told them about the egyptian and greek gods. Humans proved to have wild imaginations. Thousands of different gods. More gods than Xmen Characters.

Anyways, moving on. 7000 years ago the Jewish lie book was written about how god visited, then our book was written 2000 years ago, then the Muslims made theirs up 500 years ago and finally the Mormons made their shit up in 1800.

So while no one can know for sure, I think there is enough evidence you could at least call yourself an agnostic atheist.

The evidence may not be sufficient to determine for sure, but you must lean more one side or the other. What does your hunch say? Do you believe you will go to hell or you are a bad person if you don't believe? Let that go and maybe you'll be able to answer honestly.

Why there is no god

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes. The majority of things we can possibly imagine do not exist. Thus, belief is not as valid a position as skepticism when dealing with unsupported or unfalsifiable claims. Agnostic atheism is the most rational position.

 

[sealybobo]

How can I love someone I don't know. I can read about Him in an ancient text, but that doesn't mean I would know Him. He doesn't hang out with me. We don't go do things together. We don't sit around and make each other laugh or joke about the girl who totally rejected us at our friend's party the other night. He never comes over for dinner. I can read a biography about Jefferson or JFK or Ghandi or Eisenhower, but afterwards I don't love them.

Is God subject to such human foibles: feeling hurt that I don't love Him? Doesn't He know my every thought and understand why I don't. If He wants my love, wouldn't He know exactly how to go about getting it?

You have hit the nail squarely on the head. We cannot love God until we begin to know Him. When I was in elementary school (Catholic), we were taught that we were to love God above all else. This worried me because the list of everyone I loved above God was quite lengthy. As we come to know God, our love of Him will grow. He is now at the top of my list...but it took a long time--and it wasn't child's play.

I was a christian into my 30's. I just don't believe in god(s) anymore. Do you realize you are thinking with your heart and not your brain?

And maybe you have a good life and you attribute that in part to a god or your belief in that god. And maybe that's even true. I believe it is true for many people. I'm sure millions would say their God has made their life better. Their god has helped them. Their god loves them. There god has a heaven waiting for them.

It's funny how some people (theists) say the more they know god the more they love and worship him and the more we (atheists) learn the more sure we are god doesn't exist. But that's ok for us since we don't believe in heaven and hell. We just appreciate the time we have here and now.

I wasn't alive for billions of years before I was born and it didn't bother me one bit. I'm sure I'll be the same way after I'm gone. That's not sad. What will I care I'll be gone?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Theists won't debate a self-proclaimed agnostic.

how do you debate with someone who has no opinion?.....

Not no opinion, my opinion is that I see no proof for or against the existence of god(s).

nothing to argue with there.......I see no proofs either......I simply choose to believe......see why we don't debate agnostics?.......nothing to argue about.......

Ok, as long as you admit that you believe despite knowing that there's no proof. In other words, you live in a fantasy world. Got it.

sorry if you misunderstand the concept of "fantasy"........but that really isn't my problem, is it.....