Why aren't the anti-choice people against birth control pills.

[JScott]

...as one wag put it, 'who can blame a poor woman for terminating her pregnancy rather than bringing a child into a world poisoned by warmongering, debt slavery/monetary fraud, etc. abominations galore?'

...in my experience, the loudest abortion prohibitionists are among the most stoooooopid of republican fucks...

..you folks who mind your business, have a nice day!..

Well let's see here,.... Warmongering, ie Vietnam?; started by a democrat,.....Debt, ie Obama's unparalleled $2 trillion debt (also a democrat), slavery; thrived under democrats, emancipated by a republican, monetary fraud, ie; the IMF, Freedie Mac, Fannie May, Ben Bernankie, Tax Cheat Gietner, Franklin Raines, Barney Frank, etc. (also abominations) I think Sweetie has a point. Liberals should stop procreating until we can rid the world of abominable democrats! Nice shootin' Sweetie!!

Partisan drivel.

 

[Founder]

Riposte:

First, all "facts" are opinion in those you disagree with. One man's facts is another man's opinion, and the other way round, and one person's "partisan drivel" is another person's selfless Idealism .

Second, Liberals, Leftists, Socialists, and Democrats are always enemies of order, children, marriage, art, goodness, truth, beauty civilization, morality, ethics, Country and God, while Conservatives try their best to defend these positive values.

In short, every Criminal is a Democrat, and every Democrat is a Criminal.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's an extremely valid observation. Most pro-lifers use birth control and have abortions as a byproduct of such usage. Especially the ones using IUD's. All artificial birth control causes abortions, some at higher rates than others, but a woman who is sexually active from 15-45 and is on birth control the entire time, except to have 2 children, will, on average, have 1-5 abortions depending on the pill she's on. If she's using an IUD, the number could easily be in the hundreds.

Also, I don't see much difference between the mentality and rationale behind abortion and birth control usage.

Actually, many pro-lifers refuse to use IUDs PRECISELY because it is an abortifacient. And I'd like very much to see where you're getting this "1-5 abortions" statistic from.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I wonder if there is a term for a group of idiots? A gaggle? Flock? Herd?

Vigay.com says that it's a "thicket of idiots". I also like the term they have for empiricists: "a tabula rasa".

 

[Cecilie1200]

Many pro-lifers are against any form of birth control .. the Catholic Church, for instance.

And most pro-life women discuss this issue very carefully with their gynecologists before deciding on a birth control method precisely because they are worried about unintentional abortions/miscarriages. I did so myself. And I'm a lot more inclined to go with my take on how pro-life women behave and view the issue than I am SpidermanTuba's idea of what they're thinking and doing, which appears to be based on nothing more than his desire to criticize others for a lack of morals while he himself openly supports deliberate killing of babies.

Talk about hypocritical.

 

[Liberty]

personally, life begins at first heart beat. so, i got no prob with Birth control, altho abortion is bad if the heart is beating, then it is murder.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's an extremely valid observation. Most pro-lifers use birth control and have abortions as a byproduct of such usage. Especially the ones using IUD's. All artificial birth control causes abortions, some at higher rates than others, but a woman who is sexually active from 15-45 and is on birth control the entire time, except to have 2 children, will, on average, have 1-5 abortions depending on the pill she's on. If she's using an IUD, the number could easily be in the hundreds.

Also, I don't see much difference between the mentality and rationale behind abortion and birth control usage.

Utter nonsense.

Preventing conception is not abortion.

And when breakthrough ovulation happens and conception does occur, prevention has not been attained. Then the abortifacient aspect of birth control kicks in and prevents implantation.

Oh, yeah. That must have been what happened when my sister got pregnant on two different versions of oral contraceptives and gave birth to two of my nephews. It was the whole "abortifacient" aspect.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Thats not birth control but murder in a bottle and if you outlaw all abortion then it will kill the morning after pill at the same time.

Now before you accuse everyone of denying them of their rights then please tell me when an anti-abotion person actually wanted to ban the pill or a condom?

I'd think a person could be in favor of strictly preventive/barrier measures like condoms and spermicides and still be consistent.

You're right anti-abortion people never call for making abortion AND birth control illegal. To not do so is inconsistent.

Yeah, or maybe they're focusing their attention on what they consider the more serious problem. Who the smuck are YOU to tell them what their battle priorities should be?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I agree. Saying it happens naturally is the same kind of relativism as saying the mailman is going to die anyway, therefore it is ok if I shoot him. Or saying people die naturally all the time, therefore it is ok for me to shoot the mailman.

The two are not a valid comparison. The fact is pro-lifers who use birth control are hypocrites.

See this is how liberals play this game.

They ignore facts like the differnce between PREVENTING pregnancy and killing a pregnancy after the fact.

There is no hypocrisy there, but liberals are going to say there is anyway because they want to feel morally superior because they are FOR killing children. HUH?????

Yeah, that's their argument.

But your argument is akin to saying preventing a car accident is the same as killing any witnesses in the car you hit, AFTER having an accident.

It's JUST not the same.

Same goes for pregnancy. There is a huge difference in killing a pregnancy and preventing that pregnancy from occuring.

Your information on HOW pregnancy happens is WOEFULLY ignorant.

Actually, there is hypocrisy. If one uses the argument that life begins at conception, thus abortion is murder, then they MUST also be against the Pill for the same reason.

I always love being instructed on how to view and act upon my beliefs by someone who doesn't share them. It must be nice to be omnicognizant, and a bitch to just be so arrogant that you think you are.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, TPS. As the OP stated and I linked to, one of the mechanisms of actions of the combined oral contraceptive pill (the 'Pill') is to prevent implantation of the fertilized egg. When the primary mechanism (prevent fertilization) fails, the secondary is a back up. The pill has a high fail rate, still.

But like I said THAT is RU486.

Now, I AGREE. That when the pill fails and they go to the RU486 to stop the pregnancy, THAT IS ABORTION.

But, for example, I'm pro-life and I would not use RU486.

The op is supplying a straw dog. Claiming those that are pro-life would use RU 486, when the truth is pro-lifers are against RU486 as am I.

There is a huge difference between preventing ovulation and killing a conceived embryo.

But he is trying to confuse the two things. I see no evidence from the op or anywhere in the thread that pro-lifers, like myself, are for or would use RU-486.

Birth control (in my own case) has failed twice. Their ages are now 20 and 12. Never regret having them either.

No TPS. Look at my link earlier. The Pill will prevent implantaion of the fertilized egg.

It will, huh? Then how do you explain my nephews?

 

[Cecilie1200]

For those who missed my ealier link (from the package insert of Ortho-triclen (R)):

....
Combination oral contraceptives act by suppression of gonadotropins. Although the
primary mechanism of this action is inhibition of ovulation, other alterations include
changes in the cervical mucus (which increase the difficulty of sperm entry into the uterus)
and the endometrium (which reduce the likelihood of implantation).
....

Orthotricyclin is only one oral contraceptive. There ARE others.

 

[Cecilie1200]

One might ask as well, why are liberals against responsible people? The best form of birth control is not having sex until you are ready and mature enough to take care of a baby.

Why are Conservatives against allowing those to take birth control pills? I could see spinning the whole "Oh, a baby's life" spiel for being against abortion. However, there is no reason, at all, to be against birth control unless you are trying to turn the United States into a theology. Simple. As. That.

When did this become a universal belief of conservatives? Oh, I know. It was when you decided you WANTED us all to believe that, simply so that you could argue against it. Easier when you invent your opponents than when they stubbornly insist on being real and thinking for themselves, isn't it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

good point. The answer is that BOTH abortion and taking of the pill (if a new lifeform is attached to the uterine wall) is a form of murder. It is that simple.

Yesterday I picked up an acorn and threw it into the street, where a car ran over it. I then went home and told my friend that I threw a tree into the road and it hit a car. Totally same thing.

So you're saying you don't understand semantics and differences in maturity?

 

[Cecilie1200]

...the root of it is, 'who decides?'...the individual woman or some momentary majority of republicrat village idiots?..

...maybe when you stoooopid motherfucking republicrats clean up your own lives you'll have some honest time to stick your noses into other peoples' messes..

..unti then..stfu..

..the rest of you, have a good day!..

Exactly. The root is, who decides if I kill you? The individual killer - me - or some momentary majority of people who think killing you is wrong?

Maybe when you stupid leftist flatliners plug your brains in you'll have some honest time to develop some real thoughts and logic and perhaps even a moral or two.

Until then, keep talking, because your ignorance only makes us sound that much better.

I don't doubt that, being you, every day is shitty.

 

[JScott]

Riposte:

First, all "facts" are opinion in those you disagree with. One man's facts is another man's opinion, and the other way round, and one person's "partisan drivel" is another person's selfless Idealism .

Second, Liberals, Leftists, Socialists, and Democrats are always enemies of order, children, marriage, art, goodness, truth, beauty civilization, morality, ethics, Country and God, while Conservatives try their best to defend these positive values.

In short, every Criminal is a Democrat, and every Democrat is a Criminal.

You didnt post any facts.

 

[Founder]

Killing is Killing!

Any premeditated intentional interference in any manner, with the process of life replicating itself is killing. When anything is done with the motivation of preventing life from occurring during any stage of that life's development, it is taking that life, period.

Thus all people who practice ANY form, type, or method of birth control, whether "natural," or "artificial,"including late marriage or any other act, intended to prevent a child from being born, is taking the life of that child.

Practicing birth control of any sort is taking life, and such persons will be held accountable in judgment before man and God.

How can any of you look any child of yours in the face, and then go straightaway to bed and proceed to kill the brother or sister of that child?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

but if I find 1 teacher coaching on what to do with sex/birth control or some condom distribution activity going on in the school, they will have me all over them like stink on a monkey... it is MY job to talk with my kids on sex, relationships, my family standards

except it has been found that parents like you don't do your job adequately, because you yourself were not taught adequately. Do you think you could explain to your child the differences, let alone risks/benefits of an IUD vs implant? How about the patch vs the pill? Do you know which brand of condom is the best with regards to breaks? Didn't think so.

You are such a moron. I am not denying my daughter of any knowledge you cretin. We have had many conversations on the subject of birth control and STDs. She actually asked me at one point, "doesn't it make sense not to have sex until you are ready.?"

So you *are* for comprehensive sex ed. Wonderful. That's what I said should be the case all along. Why were you against it?

As an unrelated point of advice: Christians with strong religious values should probably avoid calling other people "cretins", as the word literally derived from mentally retarded Christians. Just an fyi.

parents should be responsible for their own kids, that's why I don't care

Yes, we've already established you don't care. Which is why the people who DO care are the ones making decision and insisting on evidence based comprehensive sex ed in schools. People like you, much like the guy above, do not have the education for it, and your personal inadequacies should not come at the expense of your child if avoidable.

Riposte:

First, all "facts" are opinion in those you disagree with. One man's facts is another man's opinion, and the other way round, and one person's "partisan drivel" is another person's selfless Idealism .

Second, Liberals, Leftists, Socialists, and Democrats are always enemies of order, children, marriage, art, goodness, truth, beauty civilization, morality, ethics, Country and God, while Conservatives try their best to defend these positive values.

In short, every Criminal is a Democrat, and every Democrat is a Criminal.

You just said facts don't exist. Congratulations: you're a moron.

When you can figure out the difference between fact and opinion, let me know.

personally, life begins at first heart beat. so, i got no prob with Birth control, altho abortion is bad if the heart is beating, then it is murder.

The first "heart beat" begins before there is even a heart. Perhaps you should try again with your hick opinion of when you want to define things.

How can any of you look any child of yours in the face, and then go straightaway to bed and proceed to kill the brother or sister of that child? [/B]

Ah my favorite illogical mislead: the idea that abortion or birth control is equivalent to killing a child you already have. You have to sink REALLY low to make that kind of argument, seeing as you clearly have no other reasoning besides the misdirection of "you don't want to KILL your child who you have cared for for all those years, RIGHT?!". To take the same "logic" from a different perspective, you are basically saying that people love their actual children as little as they love a child who hasn't even been created yet. I would HOPE that wouldn't be the case.

 

[Douger]

Don't sweat it.
Most kids today know that all sex ends with a facial.
Birth control will be obsolete within 3 years.

 

[DiamondDave]

but if I find 1 teacher coaching on what to do with sex/birth control or some condom distribution activity going on in the school, they will have me all over them like stink on a monkey... it is MY job to talk with my kids on sex, relationships, my family standards

except it has been found that parents like you don't do your job adequately, because you yourself were not taught adequately. Do you think you could explain to your child the differences, let alone risks/benefits of an IUD vs implant? How about the patch vs the pill? Do you know which brand of condom is the best with regards to breaks? Didn't think so.

Here's the first high hearty FUCK YOU of the morning

You, again, make assumptions on what someone knows or how much someone knows.. you ignorant fucking prick... it has been found that assholes like you have your little Napoleonic complex and look to lash out where you don't fear reprisal....

You think some gym teacher in school has some sort of superior knowledge? I have sat in the very first health/sex ed class my oldest daughter attended and it is literally laughable the ineptitude of the 'sex ed' teacher she had

Hmmm... my daughter, not being an adult, is not going to get parental permission for any IUD or inserted BC device... my daughter, with her parents, can go over everything with her doctor on the various types of pill if that decision is made... and since i have used condoms on a regular basis for about 30 motherfucking years, and I have the ability to do my research into testing like any logical person can, I can make informed decisions about condoms to talk to her if necessary....

But again, you fucking piece of shit, my kids are my responsibility... it's pieces of shit like you who rely on the system raising or teaching their kids, who get into more trouble... the school has no business going over what is right or wrong in personal sexual choices and has no business in specific uses of BC devices (let alone handing them out as many schools have done)

 

[SuMar]

but if I find 1 teacher coaching on what to do with sex/birth control or some condom distribution activity going on in the school, they will have me all over them like stink on a monkey... it is MY job to talk with my kids on sex, relationships, my family standards

You are such a moron. I am not denying my daughter of any knowledge you cretin. We have had many conversations on the subject of birth control and STDs. She actually asked me at one point, "doesn't it make sense not to have sex until you are ready.?"

Yes, we've already established you don't care. Which is why the people who DO care are the ones making decision and insisting on evidence based comprehensive sex ed in schools. People like you, much like the guy above, do not have the education for it, and your personal inadequacies should not come at the expense of your child if avoidable

And this is why you are a cretin. I have more education on this I'm sure than you do.

Please get help for your mental illness.

And yet you can't come up with one argument as to why I should care about other kids outside of my own. Let their parents worry about what they are doing and how they can protect themselves or even discourage them from having sex before they are ready.