CDZ Why aren't we addressing the gun issue as a cultural problem?

[G.T.]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

What does that mean? Ever since the 1966 Texas clock tower shooter, alarm bells should have gone off. That particular guy had a brain tumor that in all probability led to his violence. So how could any measure been created to address that? Then or NOW? We need to restrict gun ownership to certified hunters, sportsmen collectors or the police. I don't know how we do that, since the NRA and gun lobbies pretty much have total control over the issue. Like the fox guarding the henhouse. How about we have a NATIONAL referendum on guns, and winner takes all? Since this is a democracy...

I don't think legislation like that is the answer. There are just too many guns. A psycho will be able to get his hands on a gun no matter what.

It seems to me to be smarter to address what is happening within our culture that is devaluing life, and I don't think identifying those things would be all that difficult. The problem is that everything is politicized and no one is willing to give a damn inch.
.

How is life being devalued when theres LESS people murdering people, than historically, Mac?

You base this thread on pure emotion ~ and want anyone to address some problem we might actually have based on a false premise and you shut down any dissenting opinion...and without critical thinking.

Your graphs yesterday led me to research some of my own, and I found some really good ones, too, that show our gun death rates are back to where they were in 1980 or 1960. That's not actually LESS people murdering people than historically. We're back to where we were. It's better than a poke in the eye, but we haven't suddenly become peaceful.

Gun Violence | National Institute of Justice

Your link shows the firearm crime rate in 1993 at 7.3, and your link ends in 2011 and its at 1.8...perhaps you're looking at the wrong column, the one that merely shows the % that guns are of all violent incidents?

Nonfatal Firearm Violence, 1993-2011
Year Firearm incidents Firearm victims Firearm crime rate Firearm crimes as a percent of all violent incidents
1993 1,222,701 1,529,742 7.3 8
1994 1,287,190 1,568,176 7.4 8
1995 1,028,933 1,193,241 5.5 7
1996 939,453 1,100,809 5.1 7
1997 882,885 1,024,088 4.7 7
1998 673,304 835,423 3.8 6
1999 523,613 640,919 2.9 5
2000 483,695 610,219 2.7 6
2001 506,954 563,109 2.5 7
2002 450,776 539,973 2.3 7
2003 385,037 467,345 2.0 6
2004 405,774 456,512 1.9 7
2005 446,365 503,534 2.1 7
2006 552,035 614,406 2.5 7
2007 448,414 554,780 2.2 7
2008 331,618 371,289 1.5 5
2009 383,390 410,108 1.6 7
2010 378,801 415,003 1.6 8
2011 414,562 467,321 1.8 8
Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, National Crime Victimization Survey, 1993-2011.

 

[Mac1958]

On one side you have people that you can't trust and on the other you have people who are constantly being attacked by those same people.
It's like Palestine and Israel.
Good luck trying to get them to work out a piece plan.

I no longer expect the wings to be a part of constructive conversation.

This is going to require some brave souls to reach across the aisle. The rest can keep screaming.
.

It's not happening.
One side is the constant target while the other side is blaming the target for everything they themselves are doing.
We're dealing with classic communist tactics here.
You can't make deals with these people.
The only thing you can do is defeat them.
Sadly that is the best we can expect, because these people won't accept a solution.
Solutions remove their power.....and they aren't going to give that power up.

Yes, both ends tell me that. That's the problem.

Fortunately, some don't think that way.
.

Both sides tell you that....one of the sides is obviously lying to you.
It's as simple as that.

Just when I thought you were taking steps to becoming rational again you take two steps back.

Yes, I get that from both ends, too.

Always a good sign.
.

 

[mudwhistle]

I no longer expect the wings to be a part of constructive conversation.

This is going to require some brave souls to reach across the aisle. The rest can keep screaming.
.

It's not happening.
One side is the constant target while the other side is blaming the target for everything they themselves are doing.
We're dealing with classic communist tactics here.
You can't make deals with these people.
The only thing you can do is defeat them.
Sadly that is the best we can expect, because these people won't accept a solution.
Solutions remove their power.....and they aren't going to give that power up.

Yes, both ends tell me that. That's the problem.

Fortunately, some don't think that way.
.

Both sides tell you that....one of the sides is obviously lying to you.
It's as simple as that.

Just when I thought you were taking steps to becoming rational again you take two steps back.

Yes, I get that from both ends, too.

Always a good sign.
.

Yes.....and you're God...impervious to taking positions.
We both know that's rubbish.

 

[Mac1958]

It's not happening.
One side is the constant target while the other side is blaming the target for everything they themselves are doing.
We're dealing with classic communist tactics here.
You can't make deals with these people.
The only thing you can do is defeat them.
Sadly that is the best we can expect, because these people won't accept a solution.
Solutions remove their power.....and they aren't going to give that power up.

Yes, both ends tell me that. That's the problem.

Fortunately, some don't think that way.
.

Both sides tell you that....one of the sides is obviously lying to you.
It's as simple as that.

Just when I thought you were taking steps to becoming rational again you take two steps back.

Yes, I get that from both ends, too.

Always a good sign.
.

Yes.....and you're God...impervious to taking positions.
We both know that's rubbish.

And here we go, for the ten thousandth time. My positions on the issues are here for all to see: 2. >>> For the liars who pretend I claim to be a centrist/moderate/impartial/unbiased/fence-sitter: Come on Jake, man up, just this once.

Why do you folks insist on making everything about me?

Maybe just throw your two cents in about guns and culture. Maybe that would be a good idea. That's what the thread is about.
.

 

[Care4all]

Where's the STFU button? Actually I agree with Mac on this. The problem is cultural, not with guns. The guns have always been there, undisciplined apathetic grown tantrum babies have not.

Why do you think I posted a link about cultural decay because of the degeneration of music and Movies? Oh yeah, it is played in other countries and you dont see people going out and mowing down people with assault rifles. That is totally wrong, you go look in Europe and there is so much more violence per capita than is in the US. They also dont have open borders to drug cartels that cross daily.

Countries Compared by Crime > Total crimes per 1000. International Statistics at NationMaster.com
How Mexico’s Cartels Are Behind the Border Kid Crisis

But we understand that with liberal thinking, these things go unnoticed.

View attachment 273211

how does Europe get their drugs... who supplies them??


Your statistics site shows the USA with a higher Murder rate than Ireland, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, France, etc.... higher in the USA than ALL of Europe.

 

[G.T.]

A culture in decay - I mean these charts go bananas back in the 90s when the internet and video games really took off! Fakkin Hollywood!

 

[Olde Europe]

That's .0027% used to commit murder in that one year. Are those same guns and same gun owners the same ones committing murder the following year? No, those people are in jail and their guns are sitting in an evidence locker somewhere. The following year it is another .0027% of guns used to commit murder.

Funny how the statistician forgot to mention that.

Also, let's consider this:

11k murders in a 330 million population, that's 0,0033%. In any other metric, that would be zero. Murder, that is, doesn't happen. So let's do away with the portions of the criminal code prohibiting and penalizing murder.

Fewer regulations, baby, and freedom reigns supreme!

 

[Care4all]

Ban semi automatic guns, buy back the assault weapons owned already or back ground check and licence them.

Close the gun show loop hole

 

[Crixus]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Simple. Hold your politicians accountable at the ballot box. Every election it's the same. "If you vote democrat the commies will come git ya, and wet backs will rape all the white girls! Or, "if you vote republican the klan will come burn a cross in your front yard and abortions due to incest will skyrocket out of control!" Or, sit on the fence and sneer down at both sides and say how above it all you are, which is fine until both sides burn down your little fence and fuck it up for everyone. Honestly, the federal government has not addressed one issue without making it a worse mess then it already is/was. In the El Paso shooters manifesto there was a big answer. The dude pretty much lost all hopes of having his "dream job". Dude lost all hope and saw no reason to continue being a productive member of society. Why? That's the question that needs to be asked. For years, guns have been in school. My high school had a dozen. They were painted powder blue and there was about 2,000 rounds for them on hand. Not one time did anyone try and shoot anyone else. At any rate, as long as the current politicians are in Washington, this will continue to be a problem. Ban guns and mass shootings will continue. There are a whole slew of laws that were passed as a reaction to mass shooting that have been useless. Braidy bill anyone? How is that bump stock ban working? So until politicians are reminded why they are where they are, anything else addressing the issue is moot.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Simple. Hold your politicians accountable at the ballot box. Every election it's the same. "If you vote democrat the commies will come git ya, and wet backs will rape all the white girls! Or, "if you vote republican the klan will come burn a cross in your front yard and abortions due to incest will skyrocket out of control!" Or, sit on the fence and sneer down at both sides and say how above it all you are, which is fine until both sides burn down your little fence and fuck it up for everyone. Honestly, the federal government has not addressed one issue without making it a worse mess then it already is/was. In the El Paso shooters manifesto there was a big answer. The dude pretty much lost all hopes of having his "dream job". Dude lost all hope and saw no reason to continue being a productive member of society. Why? That's the question that needs to be asked. For years, guns have been in school. My high school had a dozen. They were painted powder blue and there was about 2,000 rounds for them on hand. Not one time did anyone try and shoot anyone else. At any rate, as long as the current politicians are in Washington, this will continue to be a problem. Ban guns and mass shootings will continue. There are a whole slew of laws that were passed as a reaction to mass shooting that have been useless. Braidy bill anyone? How is that bump stock ban working? So until politicians are reminded why they are where they are, anything else addressing the issue is moot.

I agree in principle, but it sure is difficult to hold politicians accountable when we don't have term limits. A vast majority of incumbents are re-elected, not because they earned it, but because they have leveraged their position and increased their power base.

There have been a few hints here and there that some politicians are more willing to say "enough is enough". Let's see if some momentum can build.
.

 

[G.T.]

That's .0027% used to commit murder in that one year. Are those same guns and same gun owners the same ones committing murder the following year? No, those people are in jail and their guns are sitting in an evidence locker somewhere. The following year it is another .0027% of guns used to commit murder.

Funny how the statistician forgot to mention that.

Also, let's consider this:

11k murders in a 330 million population, that's 0,0033%. In any other metric, that would be zero. Murder, that is, doesn't happen. So let's do away with the portions of the criminal code prohibiting and penalizing murder.

Fewer regulations, baby, and freedom reigns supreme!

You don't think the fact that 329, 989, 000 out of 330, 000, 000 people NOT being Murderers.... is sufficient cause for concern of life being devalued by movies, music and video games?

#maclogic

 

[OldLady]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

What does that mean? Ever since the 1966 Texas clock tower shooter, alarm bells should have gone off. That particular guy had a brain tumor that in all probability led to his violence. So how could any measure been created to address that? Then or NOW? We need to restrict gun ownership to certified hunters, sportsmen collectors or the police. I don't know how we do that, since the NRA and gun lobbies pretty much have total control over the issue. Like the fox guarding the henhouse. How about we have a NATIONAL referendum on guns, and winner takes all? Since this is a democracy...

I don't think legislation like that is the answer. There are just too many guns. A psycho will be able to get his hands on a gun no matter what.

It seems to me to be smarter to address what is happening within our culture that is devaluing life, and I don't think identifying those things would be all that difficult. The problem is that everything is politicized and no one is willing to give a damn inch.
.

How is life being devalued when theres LESS people murdering people, than historically, Mac?

You base this thread on pure emotion ~ and want anyone to address some problem we might actually have based on a false premise and you shut down any dissenting opinion...and without critical thinking.

Your graphs yesterday led me to research some of my own, and I found some really good ones, too, that show our gun death rates are back to where they were in 1980 or 1960. That's not actually LESS people murdering people than historically. We're back to where we were. It's better than a poke in the eye, but we haven't suddenly become peaceful.

Gun Violence | National Institute of Justice

Your link shows the firearm crime rate in 1993 at 7.3, and your link ends in 2011 and its at 1.8...perhaps you're looking at the wrong column, the one that merely shows the % that guns are of all violent incidents?

Nonfatal Firearm Violence, 1993-2011
Year Firearm incidents Firearm victims Firearm crime rate Firearm crimes as a percent of all violent incidents
1993 1,222,701 1,529,742 7.3 8
1994 1,287,190 1,568,176 7.4 8
1995 1,028,933 1,193,241 5.5 7
1996 939,453 1,100,809 5.1 7
1997 882,885 1,024,088 4.7 7
1998 673,304 835,423 3.8 6
1999 523,613 640,919 2.9 5
2000 483,695 610,219 2.7 6
2001 506,954 563,109 2.5 7
2002 450,776 539,973 2.3 7
2003 385,037 467,345 2.0 6
2004 405,774 456,512 1.9 7
2005 446,365 503,534 2.1 7
2006 552,035 614,406 2.5 7
2007 448,414 554,780 2.2 7
2008 331,618 371,289 1.5 5
2009 383,390 410,108 1.6 7
2010 378,801 415,003 1.6 8
2011 414,562 467,321 1.8 8
Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, National Crime Victimization Survey, 1993-2011.

No, I was way way down to page 20 something....gun homicides by age, I think....Yes there is a lot of good information there. I am not contradicting you at all. I am simply clarifying your "historic" comment. Depends on how far back we go. I said "1960" and "1980"
You will find gun homicide rates comparing them by those years if you look. I couldn't get them to copy and paste, or I would have.

 

[mudwhistle]

Yes, both ends tell me that. That's the problem.

Fortunately, some don't think that way.
.

Both sides tell you that....one of the sides is obviously lying to you.
It's as simple as that.

Just when I thought you were taking steps to becoming rational again you take two steps back.

Yes, I get that from both ends, too.

Always a good sign.
.

Yes.....and you're God...impervious to taking positions.
We both know that's rubbish.

And here we go, for the ten thousandth time. My positions on the issues are here for all to see: 2. >>> For the liars who pretend I claim to be a centrist/moderate/impartial/unbiased/fence-sitter: Come on Jake, man up, just this once.

Why do you folks insist on making everything about me?

Maybe just throw your two cents in about guns and culture. Maybe that would be a good idea. That's what the thread is about.
.

Sorry if it bothers you, but trying act like you don't take positions....then taking leftist positions in your threads just doesn't fly anymore.

 

[Mac1958]

Both sides tell you that....one of the sides is obviously lying to you.
It's as simple as that.

Just when I thought you were taking steps to becoming rational again you take two steps back.

Yes, I get that from both ends, too.

Always a good sign.
.

Yes.....and you're God...impervious to taking positions.
We both know that's rubbish.

And here we go, for the ten thousandth time. My positions on the issues are here for all to see: 2. >>> For the liars who pretend I claim to be a centrist/moderate/impartial/unbiased/fence-sitter: Come on Jake, man up, just this once.

Why do you folks insist on making everything about me?

Maybe just throw your two cents in about guns and culture. Maybe that would be a good idea. That's what the thread is about.
.

Sorry if it bothers you, but trying act like you don't take positions....then taking leftist positions in your threads just doesn't fly anymore.

I just provided a link to my positions. I take positions all the time, taking heat from both ends.

Then you again say I try to act like I don't take positions.

I honestly don't get it. Alternate universe stuff. I don't know what to tell you. Please stick to the thread.
.

 

[OldLady]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Simple. Hold your politicians accountable at the ballot box. Every election it's the same. "If you vote democrat the commies will come git ya, and wet backs will rape all the white girls! Or, "if you vote republican the klan will come burn a cross in your front yard and abortions due to incest will skyrocket out of control!" Or, sit on the fence and sneer down at both sides and say how above it all you are, which is fine until both sides burn down your little fence and fuck it up for everyone. Honestly, the federal government has not addressed one issue without making it a worse mess then it already is/was. In the El Paso shooters manifesto there was a big answer. The dude pretty much lost all hopes of having his "dream job". Dude lost all hope and saw no reason to continue being a productive member of society. Why? That's the question that needs to be asked. For years, guns have been in school. My high school had a dozen. They were painted powder blue and there was about 2,000 rounds for them on hand. Not one time did anyone try and shoot anyone else. At any rate, as long as the current politicians are in Washington, this will continue to be a problem. Ban guns and mass shootings will continue. There are a whole slew of laws that were passed as a reaction to mass shooting that have been useless. Braidy bill anyone? How is that bump stock ban working? So until politicians are reminded why they are where they are, anything else addressing the issue is moot.

Exceptionally well said, Crixus. Didn't know you had it in you.
"If you vote democrat the commies will come git ya, and wet backs will rape all the white girls! Or, "if you vote republican the klan will come burn a cross in your front yard and abortions due to incest will skyrocket out of control!" Or, sit on the fence and sneer down at both sides and say how above it all you are, which is fine until both sides burn down your little fence and fuck it up for everyone.
Perfect summation.

 

[OldLady]

A culture in decay - I mean these charts go bananas back in the 90s when the internet and video games really took off! Fakkin Hollywood!

View attachment 273345

Yeah, wtf was going on in the 90's? I heard one official say "organized crime," but I was around in the 90's and the Mafia wasn't THAT bad. Jesus.

 

[TNHarley]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

Changing the Second Amendment -- or getting rid of it because it is outmoded and no longer applies -- is not burning the Constitution. As a matter of fact, the Constitution tells us exactly how to go about doing such.

Nope but it is burning basic human rights

 

[Olde Europe]

You don't think the fact that 329, 989, 000 out of 330, 000, 000 people NOT being Murderers.... is sufficient cause for concern of life being devalued by movies, music and video games?

#maclogic

Mac isn't completely wrong, though. The talk about "infestation" does exhibit a devaluation of human life. What he couldn't bring himself to do is to name and condemn the minuscule sector running on dehumanization, the portion of the population greeting it with glee and cheering it on, and neither could he praise the large and growing portion of the population valuing human life even more, even higher than the right to possess guns. That's where the bothsidesism kicks in, and the millennia-old, strident whine about "decay" drones out all other considerations. Evidence is not accepted, period.

 

[G.T.]

What does that mean? Ever since the 1966 Texas clock tower shooter, alarm bells should have gone off. That particular guy had a brain tumor that in all probability led to his violence. So how could any measure been created to address that? Then or NOW? We need to restrict gun ownership to certified hunters, sportsmen collectors or the police. I don't know how we do that, since the NRA and gun lobbies pretty much have total control over the issue. Like the fox guarding the henhouse. How about we have a NATIONAL referendum on guns, and winner takes all? Since this is a democracy...

I don't think legislation like that is the answer. There are just too many guns. A psycho will be able to get his hands on a gun no matter what.

It seems to me to be smarter to address what is happening within our culture that is devaluing life, and I don't think identifying those things would be all that difficult. The problem is that everything is politicized and no one is willing to give a damn inch.
.

How is life being devalued when theres LESS people murdering people, than historically, Mac?

You base this thread on pure emotion ~ and want anyone to address some problem we might actually have based on a false premise and you shut down any dissenting opinion...and without critical thinking.

Your graphs yesterday led me to research some of my own, and I found some really good ones, too, that show our gun death rates are back to where they were in 1980 or 1960. That's not actually LESS people murdering people than historically. We're back to where we were. It's better than a poke in the eye, but we haven't suddenly become peaceful.

Gun Violence | National Institute of Justice

Your link shows the firearm crime rate in 1993 at 7.3, and your link ends in 2011 and its at 1.8...perhaps you're looking at the wrong column, the one that merely shows the % that guns are of all violent incidents?

Nonfatal Firearm Violence, 1993-2011
Year Firearm incidents Firearm victims Firearm crime rate Firearm crimes as a percent of all violent incidents
1993 1,222,701 1,529,742 7.3 8
1994 1,287,190 1,568,176 7.4 8
1995 1,028,933 1,193,241 5.5 7
1996 939,453 1,100,809 5.1 7
1997 882,885 1,024,088 4.7 7
1998 673,304 835,423 3.8 6
1999 523,613 640,919 2.9 5
2000 483,695 610,219 2.7 6
2001 506,954 563,109 2.5 7
2002 450,776 539,973 2.3 7
2003 385,037 467,345 2.0 6
2004 405,774 456,512 1.9 7
2005 446,365 503,534 2.1 7
2006 552,035 614,406 2.5 7
2007 448,414 554,780 2.2 7
2008 331,618 371,289 1.5 5
2009 383,390 410,108 1.6 7
2010 378,801 415,003 1.6 8
2011 414,562 467,321 1.8 8
Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, National Crime Victimization Survey, 1993-2011.

No, I was way way down to page 20 something....gun homicides by age, I think....Yes there is a lot of good information there. I am not contradicting you at all. I am simply clarifying your "historic" comment. Depends on how far back we go. I said "1960" and "1980"
You will find gun homicide rates comparing them by those years if you look. I couldn't get them to copy and paste, or I would have.

There are exponentially more guns than ever before ...here in 2019, and I think peak was around 1990 or 1991 and we're not even CLOSE to that per capita...

My underlying point here, is that the "kids these days" thing that Mac is always doing is a fabrication. Older people, not all of them but the more prudish among them...have always had this grudge against the Younger among us. It's a symptom of rigidity, seems like the older these type get, the more rigid their thinking.

For example, he mentioned Violence in Hollywood and in video games as possible causes of some weird cultural decay.... and yet Violence in SOCIETY has gone the exact OPPOSITE on a trend-line as both of those gained in popularity throughout the 90s and early 2000s.

We're all entitled to our own feelings, but not to our own sets of facts.

The rigid thinking folks think kids are "snowflakes" these days...but really, self-defense schools are opening and being popularized more and more across the Country than ever before.... and more kids know how to fight NOW than ever before, and LESS kids ACTUALLY fight now. That tells me that we have done something positive, and it's not all negative.

People walk around with their faces in their cell-phones and they're absorbing information and technology like pacman eating pellets. The upside is they're too busy to be going batshit over the neighbor mowing over the property line. The downside is they're less social - but - population increases seem to be mitigating this factor and I see sporting events and restaurants still filling up so I'm not sure how that all's gunna go.


You throw a mcdonalds and some wi-fi on every corner in afghanistan and watch the violence in their culture wane.

 

[G.T.]

You don't think the fact that 329, 989, 000 out of 330, 000, 000 people NOT being Murderers.... is sufficient cause for concern of life being devalued by movies, music and video games?

#maclogic

Mac isn't completely wrong, though. The talk about "infestation" does exhibit a devaluation of human life. What he couldn't bring himself to do is to name and condemn the minuscule sector running on dehumanization, the portion of the population greeting it with glee and cheering it on, and neither could he praise the large and growing portion of the population valuing human life even more, even higher than the right to possess guns. That's where the bothsidesism kicks in, and the millennia-old, strident whine about "decay" drones out all other considerations. Evidence is not accepted, period.

That's a polito-sphere phenomena - not an indictment on what the actual population is doing as a whole. America is largely outside of partisan politics...but if you listen to the "inside" of it for too long, you might become as hysterical as the folks who do.