Why Can't Felons Have Guns?

[George Costanza]

There is a logical and easily understandable reason for prohibiting convicted felons from owning guns. If is has to be explained to anyone, they are too dense to possibly understand it or much else, for that matter.

 

[Ernie S.]

Convicted felons give up certain rights in civilized society. They lose many of the benefits of citizenship; the right to vote, hold office (in most states) and to own firearms.
It seems to me that if a state allows felons to vote, they should allow him to own guns.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Follow me for a minute here.... If you commit a crime, and go to prison and serve your sentence, isn't that called "paying your debt to society"? You have been punished, and now you are a felon.

Fine.

But WHY is your right to bear arms taken away? Felons are the one who most likely live in high-crime, drug infested areas. The exact type of place where you NEED a gun! Remember, the felon has already paid for his crime.

Why disarm a member of society who needs a gun for self-defense the most?

Your Thoughts..

Because of rule of law and due process they lost the right when they broke the law. But when a felon has paid his debt he should regain his rights.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Follow me for a minute here.... If you commit a crime, and go to prison and serve your sentence, isn't that called "paying your debt to society"? You have been punished, and now you are a felon.

Fine.

But WHY is your right to bear arms taken away? Felons are the one who most likely live in high-crime, drug infested areas. The exact type of place where you NEED a gun! Remember, the felon has already paid for his crime.

Why disarm a member of society who needs a gun for self-defense the most?

Your Thoughts..

The concept is derived from the common law concept known as "civil death". As a consequence of the conviction all rights and privileges associated with citizenship were lost forever. Many of these disabilities associated with a felony conviction survive to this day, including:

1.) Voting restrictions;
2.) Prohibitions on holding public office;
3.) Prohibitions on serving on juries;
4.) Prohibitions on engaging in certain occupations of trust such as teachers or attorneys.

This gives the power to society to disqualify persons convicted of felonies from legally exercising such rights and privileges, however, society does not need to apply those restrictions if they do not wish to and you are free to advocate a "GUNS FOR FELONS" campaign as part of the democratic platform for the midterm elections.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Ok, I can understand if their crime was involving a gun. But let's say...ummmm.... stealing a car.. grand larceny, or drug possession. Now, we as society, take away a constitutional right from them? What other constitutional rights should we take away from other people who paid for their crimes?

Should Martha Stewart be forced to wear a jacket that says "CROOK" the rest of her life in public?

We can and do limit their right to vote, their right to serve on juries, their right to hold public office and their right to engage in certain occupations of trust.

 

[king.solomon]

So if a felon does his time, commits no more crimes, follows the law from now on, etc...

Then he gets a job, marries, has children, and buys a house.

Now, even though his felony was.... let's say....a robbery he did 7 years ago... now even though he has changed his ways, done his time, and is a productive member of society...

HE CAN'T OWN A GUN TO PROTECT HIS WIFE AND KIDS FROM HOME- INVADING RAPISTS?




Is this fair to his wife and kids as well??

 

[Two Thumbs]

Follow me for a minute here.... If you commit a crime, and go to prison and serve your sentence, isn't that called "paying your debt to society"? You have been punished, and now you are a felon.

Fine.

But WHY is your right to bear arms taken away? Felons are the one who most likely live in high-crime, drug infested areas. The exact type of place where you NEED a gun! Remember, the felon has already paid for his crime.

Why disarm a member of society who needs a gun for self-defense the most?

Your Thoughts..

Is it okay for a convicted murderer, who has 'paid their debt' to go and buy a gun, even though they killed someone with a gun?

Are you insane?

another one that thinks criminals can't get guns.


seriously,

Just how fucking dumb as dirt are liberals?



Criminal; "I want to kill that mutha over there for dissing me, but the MAN won't let me buy a gun from the gun store, so he's safe."

or

Criminal; "I want to kill that mutha over there for dissing me, so I'm going to this place and talk to this man I know and get me a gun and go kill that mutha."


Which do you libtardians think is the most likely conversation?

keeping in mind that your idiocy supports the black market for hand guns.

 

[hoosier88]

So if a felon does his time, commits no more crimes, follows the law from now on, etc...

Then he gets a job, marries, has children, and buys a house.

Now, even though his felony was.... let's say....a robbery he did 7 years ago... now even though he has changed his ways, done his time, and is a productive member of society...

HE CAN'T OWN A GUN TO PROTECT HIS WIFE AND KIDS FROM HOME- INVADING RAPISTS?

Is this fair to his wife and kids as well??

(My bold)

Depends on which state he committed a felony in. He would have to check to see if he can petition to have his civic rights restored. If Yes, then he can petition for those rights.

As to the wife & kids - there's nothing stopping her from owning/firing a gun, assuming that she's not a felon herself. (We'll leave the kids out, but if they're of age, etc. - they could also own/fire a gun.) If she is a felon, she'll also have to check to see if she can petition to have her civic rights restored.

& as noted elsewhere here, a felon can illegally have & fire a gun - but it means that he's facing more severe penalties if he's caught with a gun in his possession.

Fairness - well, I don't think the laws as written are much concerned about fairness. Maybe some chilly notion of justice, but fairness seems not to even be a concern.

 

[legaleagle_45]

So if a felon does his time, commits no more crimes, follows the law from now on, etc...

Then he gets a job, marries, has children, and buys a house.

Now, even though his felony was.... let's say....a robbery he did 7 years ago... now even though he has changed his ways, done his time, and is a productive member of society...

HE CAN'T OWN A GUN TO PROTECT HIS WIFE AND KIDS FROM HOME- INVADING RAPISTS?

Yep, unless he applies for a pardon. If he obtains a full pardon he can have a gun because a pardon expunges the felony conviction from his record..

Is this fair to his wife and kids as well??

Life is not fair. Wife can have gun as long as she is not disqualified and takes steps so that hubby can not get his felonious hands on same. Are you sexist and believe only males can fire a gun and protect their family?

If you still feel it is unfair, I suggest you start advocating that the Democratic party add a plank on their midterm election platform entitled

GUNS FOR FELONS!!!

 

[dilloduck]

Follow me for a minute here.... If you commit a crime, and go to prison and serve your sentence, isn't that called "paying your debt to society"? You have been punished, and now you are a felon.

Fine.

But WHY is your right to bear arms taken away? Felons are the one who most likely live in high-crime, drug infested areas. The exact type of place where you NEED a gun! Remember, the felon has already paid for his crime.

Why disarm a member of society who needs a gun for self-defense the most?

Your Thoughts..

It is part of your punishment

Don't like it....Don't do the crime

seriously---we don't want to waste our time by fixing any shitty laws now do we ?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How would you feel about a couple of convicted child molesters who have "paid their debt to society" for 20 years apiece moving into your trailer with you, asswipe?

Um, I believe he was talking about keeping an inalienable right, not moving a child molester into someone's home.

Frankly, I can see it both ways. if we didn't have victimless crimes that can make one a felon, I'd agree with the current law. A violent offender has revoked their ability to own arms. But there are a lot of non-violent offenders who make the felons list. In which case, it's deplorable to remove their rights simply because the system is completely lop-sided.

One can petition the Secretary of Treasury for the right back.

 

[legaleagle_45]

One can petition the Secretary of Treasury for the right back.

Although the law is on the books, budget directives prohibit the expenditure of any federal funds for this purpose and so such a petition will do you no good.

 

[westwall]

How would you feel about a couple of convicted child molesters who have "paid their debt to society" for 20 years apiece moving into your trailer with you, asswipe?

Um, I believe he was talking about keeping an inalienable right, not moving a child molester into someone's home.

Frankly, I can see it both ways. if we didn't have victimless crimes that can make one a felon, I'd agree with the current law. A violent offender has revoked their ability to own arms. But there are a lot of non-violent offenders who make the felons list. In which case, it's deplorable to remove their rights simply because the system is completely lop-sided.

"Inalienable right"? Last time I looked, our Declaration of Independence defined inalienable rights as follows: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

I don't see gun ownership in there . . .

I think defence of life would apply....

 

[westwall]

So if a felon does his time, commits no more crimes, follows the law from now on, etc...

Then he gets a job, marries, has children, and buys a house.

Now, even though his felony was.... let's say....a robbery he did 7 years ago... now even though he has changed his ways, done his time, and is a productive member of society...

HE CAN'T OWN A GUN TO PROTECT HIS WIFE AND KIDS FROM HOME- INVADING RAPISTS?




Is this fair to his wife and kids as well??

He can obtain a relief of disability as I said before. Getting one for long guns is comparatively easy, one for handguns more difficult.

 

[king.solomon]

Thanks. I thought these were some excellent comments.

And as far as dems pushing guns for felons, it seems that the Right are the ones in love with guns and in bed with the NRA.

LOL

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Follow me for a minute here.... If you commit a crime, and go to prison and serve your sentence, isn't that called "paying your debt to society"? You have been punished, and now you are a felon.

Fine.

But WHY is your right to bear arms taken away? Felons are the one who most likely live in high-crime, drug infested areas. The exact type of place where you NEED a gun! Remember, the felon has already paid for his crime.

Why disarm a member of society who needs a gun for self-defense the most?

Your Thoughts..

I agree with you, depending on the felony. If they embezzled cash from an employer, why shouldn't they be allowed to own a gun once their debt is paid. But if they shot someone dead...well, maybe that calls for losing the right to own a gun.

You do know that it's not only felons who can't own guns, right? If you are convicted of MISDEMEANOR domestic violence, you also lose the right to own a gun FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Bullshit, eh?

Happened to me. Boyfriend and I were going through some tumultous times. (I thought he'd cheated). One night, I was drinking, he was not. I decided to leave. He didn't want me to, tried to restrain me. I fought him and in the process hit him a couple of times. Sorry, but I had been in a physically abusive relationship with a man when I was younger, when a man starts grabbing me, I fight back.

He called the cops hoping they could "help" calm me down. By the time they got there I was just sitting on a chair, subdued. In talking to the cops, they asked him, "Did she hit you?" He said yes, not knowing what would happen next. They promptly arrested me and I was charged with domestic violence. Spent the night in jail, saw the magistrate next morning. My boyfriend was there, pleading on my behalf. I just pleaded "no contest" so I could get the hell out of there, not knowing what the consequences would be at the time.

For that, I can never own a gun again for the rest of my life. That boyfriend is now my husband, has been for 15 years. We had been together eight years when that happened and we got married shortly after the incident. Absolutely no problems before that incident nor since.

What do you think of that? That's how they get our gun rights, one bit at a time. That law was a result of the Lautenberg Amendment, the s.o.b. senator who recently died.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

So if a felon does his time, commits no more crimes, follows the law from now on, etc...

Then he gets a job, marries, has children, and buys a house.

Now, even though his felony was.... let's say....a robbery he did 7 years ago... now even though he has changed his ways, done his time, and is a productive member of society...

HE CAN'T OWN A GUN TO PROTECT HIS WIFE AND KIDS FROM HOME- INVADING RAPISTS?

Yep, unless he applies for a pardon. If he obtains a full pardon he can have a gun because a pardon expunges the felony conviction from his record..

Is this fair to his wife and kids as well??

Life is not fair. Wife can have gun as long as she is not disqualified and takes steps so that hubby can not get his felonious hands on same. Are you sexist and believe only males can fire a gun and protect their family?

If you still feel it is unfair, I suggest you start advocating that the Democratic party add a plank on their midterm election platform entitled

GUNS FOR FELONS!!!

Sure, the wife can have a gun, but that really puts the husband in a precarious position. Just like me, with my MISDEMEANOR, I can't have a gun, but my husband can. It's a real risk for people who have lost their gun rights to have guns in the house they live in/own. You're risking PRISON if a jury can be convinced you have ACCESS to guns. Jury just might not believe you don't have the combination to that gun safe memorized.

Jeez, if your spouse wanted you out of the way so they could have an affair, just take a gun out of the safe, leave it laying around, and call the police..."My spouse isn't allowed to have access to guns, but she does. There are guns just sitting around in the house!" I talked to a lawyer about that and he agreed...yep, a precarious postiion to be in. Unless you don't mind going to prison for basically doing absolutely nothing wrong, that is.

 

[legaleagle_45]

Jeez, if your spouse wanted you out of the way so they could have an affair, just take a gun out of the safe, leave it laying around, and call the police..."My spouse isn't allowed to have access to guns, but she does. There are guns just sitting around in the house!" I talked to a lawyer about that and he agreed...yep, a precarious postiion to be in. Unless you don't mind going to prison for basically doing absolutely nothing wrong, that is.

You are quite correct. I had a case where the live in girlfriend purchased the firearm for boyfriend as a gift, then turned him in as a felon in posession when they broke up.

 

[hoosier88]

Follow me for a minute here.... If you commit a crime, and go to prison and serve your sentence, isn't that called "paying your debt to society"? You have been punished, and now you are a felon.

Fine.

But WHY is your right to bear arms taken away? Felons are the one who most likely live in high-crime, drug infested areas. The exact type of place where you NEED a gun! Remember, the felon has already paid for his crime.

Why disarm a member of society who needs a gun for self-defense the most?

Your Thoughts..

I agree with you, depending on the felony. If they embezzled cash from an employer, why shouldn't they be allowed to own a gun once their debt is paid. But if they shot someone dead...well, maybe that calls for losing the right to own a gun.

You do know that it's not only felons who can't own guns, right? If you are convicted of MISDEMEANOR domestic violence, you also lose the right to own a gun FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Bullshit, eh?

Happened to me. Boyfriend and I were going through some tumultous times. (I thought he'd cheated). One night, I was drinking, he was not. I decided to leave. He didn't want me to, tried to restrain me. I fought him and in the process hit him a couple of times. Sorry, but I had been in a physically abusive relationship with a man when I was younger, when a man starts grabbing me, I fight back.

He called the cops hoping they could "help" calm me down. By the time they got there I was just sitting on a chair, subdued. In talking to the cops, they asked him, "Did she hit you?" He said yes, not knowing what would happen next. They promptly arrested me and I was charged with domestic violence. Spent the night in jail, saw the magistrate next morning. My boyfriend was there, pleading on my behalf. I just pleaded "no contest" so I could get the hell out of there, not knowing what the consequences would be at the time.

For that, I can never own a gun again for the rest of my life. That boyfriend is now my husband, has been for 15 years. We had been together eight years when that happened and we got married shortly after the incident. Absolutely no problems before that incident nor since.

What do you think of that? That's how they get our gun rights, one bit at a time. That law was a result of the Lautenberg Amendment, the s.o.b. senator who recently died.

(My bold)

15 years is a long time ago. The point to the domestic violence penalty as regards guns is to try to protect the spouse/partner. The perp in domestic violence cases is usually v. hard-headed, it takes a lot to get through to him/her. (The other point is that the courts are trying to make up for centuries of pretty much neglect in these cases. They've decided they'd rather come down too hard than too light. A question of balance, I suppose ...)

You can look into reversing your plea - but I suggest you do some research on your own before hiring a lawyer. Given the circumstances, you might be able to void the charge - especially if you've both had clean records since, no police problems, etc. You can try your public library, or contact the local bar association - they usually do pro bono cases, someone might be willing to take a look @ your case. @ the least, they could tell you if it's a possibility, & whether it's worth pursuing or not.

Good luck!

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Follow me for a minute here.... If you commit a crime, and go to prison and serve your sentence, isn't that called "paying your debt to society"? You have been punished, and now you are a felon.

Fine.

But WHY is your right to bear arms taken away? Felons are the one who most likely live in high-crime, drug infested areas. The exact type of place where you NEED a gun! Remember, the felon has already paid for his crime.

Why disarm a member of society who needs a gun for self-defense the most?

Your Thoughts..

I agree with you, depending on the felony. If they embezzled cash from an employer, why shouldn't they be allowed to own a gun once their debt is paid. But if they shot someone dead...well, maybe that calls for losing the right to own a gun.

You do know that it's not only felons who can't own guns, right? If you are convicted of MISDEMEANOR domestic violence, you also lose the right to own a gun FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Bullshit, eh?

Happened to me. Boyfriend and I were going through some tumultous times. (I thought he'd cheated). One night, I was drinking, he was not. I decided to leave. He didn't want me to, tried to restrain me. I fought him and in the process hit him a couple of times. Sorry, but I had been in a physically abusive relationship with a man when I was younger, when a man starts grabbing me, I fight back.

He called the cops hoping they could "help" calm me down. By the time they got there I was just sitting on a chair, subdued. In talking to the cops, they asked him, "Did she hit you?" He said yes, not knowing what would happen next. They promptly arrested me and I was charged with domestic violence. Spent the night in jail, saw the magistrate next morning. My boyfriend was there, pleading on my behalf. I just pleaded "no contest" so I could get the hell out of there, not knowing what the consequences would be at the time.

For that, I can never own a gun again for the rest of my life. That boyfriend is now my husband, has been for 15 years. We had been together eight years when that happened and we got married shortly after the incident. Absolutely no problems before that incident nor since.

What do you think of that? That's how they get our gun rights, one bit at a time. That law was a result of the Lautenberg Amendment, the s.o.b. senator who recently died.

(My bold)

15 years is a long time ago. The point to the domestic violence penalty as regards guns is to try to protect the spouse/partner. The perp in domestic violence cases is usually v. hard-headed, it takes a lot to get through to him/her. (The other point is that the courts are trying to make up for centuries of pretty much neglect in these cases. They've decided they'd rather come down too hard than too light. A question of balance, I suppose ...)

You can look into reversing your plea - but I suggest you do some research on your own before hiring a lawyer. Given the circumstances, you might be able to void the charge - especially if you've both had clean records since, no police problems, etc. You can try your public library, or contact the local bar association - they usually do pro bono cases, someone might be willing to take a look @ your case. @ the least, they could tell you if it's a possibility, & whether it's worth pursuing or not.

Good luck!

There is no expungement in my state. I have looked into this. I asked a lawyer about reversing the plea, it's been way too long ago to start trying something like that. (I call lawyers on the phone and talk to them and they divulge bits and pieces of information without me having to pay them) : )

There is one thing I read on a women's law website. Apparently, in my state (Alaska), our definition of misdemeanor domestic violence is different from the federal definition in the Lautenberg Amendment. Something like that. Which means the federal law does not apply in this state. Supposedly.

Let's just say, I don't want to be the one to legally test that. First of all, I don't have money for the caliber of lawyer to take on something like that. Secondly, I'd kill myself before I'd go to prison. So if my challenge to the law was unsuccessful, my life would be kind of ruined.

And to legally test that, I believe I'd have to have possession of a gun, right, be charged with unlawful possession of a gun, and then challenge those charges in court? I have to break the law in order to challenge it, am I correct?

No, I don't want to be the one. Let someone else be a hero on this one.

I have a stun gun, bear spray and strong determination to defend myself. That'll have to do.