Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[JBeukema]

1/3 of abortions are repeat business

The whole birth control sob story is bullshit

 

[syrenn]

Well that was fairly convoluted. You are saying you understand babies can't live without assistance, but if you have to give them assistance to live, they aren't really alive?

You do realize that fertilized eggs are started in petrie dishes and transplanted into women, right? So technically, they are living, with assistance, outside of the mother.

And we are able to keep babies at younger and younger ages alive. What will happen to your argument when we are able to maintain life and grown of babies from that magical 4-week point? What will the justification be then for allowing mothers to kill them, when if a stranger would do it, it would be murder?

Do i say abortion? Do i say killing?

No, you can't admit to yourself what you advocate because you know it's indefensible.

Oh, and what is that? I know exactly what it is that i advocate.

 

[R.D.]

I've asked this before and don't know if it was answered (long thread)

Why?

Why in the world would anyone ever try to get pregnant only to end it? The goal of less unplanned pregnancies would be less abortions.

Today abortions are birth control. Its not they tried rather they didn't care enough to try not to.

 

[JBeukema]

I know exactly what it is that i advocate.

Why can't you admit it to yourself? Why dance around it all this time?

Also, a child might be 'viable' in one room but not another, depending simply on gepgraphic location and proximity to medical personnel and equipment.

If killing these children is okay, why can't you just say 'I support killing innocent and defenseless young children and believe it okay because________'?

What about shooting you in the face today? Is that okay? You can't survive without numerous other lifeforms yourself. If killing you in cold blood is not okay, then why? What changed when that made killing you in cold blood go from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing?

 

[syrenn]

You're the only one bringing your god into it

sorry to disappoint you but Immie was. the one to bring god into it. You responded to my response to him. Do keep up.

 

[Ravi]

So they were people but not citizens?

Or citizens but not people?

I'm pretty sure they were recognized as citizens.

It's your argument. I don't give a shit what the law has to say.

Spousal rape was legal until the early 90s in the U.S.

When you appeal to the Law, you prove yourself a Statist with no principles.

Who are you talking to, Buttemia? It has always been your argument that slaves weren't persons but you've been proven wrong. By the constitution, the very document you pretend to understand and worship.

Delicious!

He will say anything, anything at all, to get a little attention.

Yeah, I think it's pretty easy to conclude that he's a pathological liar. He certainly can't admit to being wrong, ever, and as you can see he twists everyone's words to mean something they don't.

 

[AllieBaba]

Ravi, that's just nonsense. He hasn't lied in this thread.

If he has, please point to it. I can think of many instances where you've lied, though...both about what people have said and about events.

 

[syrenn]

Viability is what gives it life.

Viability is a meaningless subjective term.

You cannot survive without your gut flora


You cannot survive out of your environment


If I cut your femoral artery, you cannot survive without drastic medical intervention


None of these facts make you 'not a life'

How remain a twit, however

I'm sorry for you. Hopefully some day you can accept that you are a murderer, forgive yourself, and move truly move on.

Viability is the exact issue, it is not subjective. It is the point where the living tissue has a "life" of its own.

I don't see anyone not wanting to carry their gut flora for 9 months either. Nor do i see them trying to remove their mitochondria. We are specifically speaking of fetal tissue.

So long your environment does not require the forced rental of someone else's body, then i agree with you. Individuals have the right to remove what ever the do not want from their own bodies.

 

[beowolfe]

Ok, so let's make it clear and honest: Abortion is murder.

It's just a form of murder I happen to agree with!

If abortion is murder, then capital punishment is also murder. Also, it is not the government's position to tell a wome when she can or can not remove a fetus from her body.

 

[syrenn]

1/3 of abortions are repeat business

The whole birth control sob story is bullshit

I am also for forced sterilization...of all replete offenders. Both men and women alike.

 

[AllieBaba]

Told you folks.

Anyone who supports abortion supports population control and eugenics. ANYONE. I've never met one person who claims they support it for the sake of the children and the women who doesn't REALLY support it because they want to control other people's breeding habits.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So it's a living organism, but it's not a life?



WTF is a 'stand alone life' is not a living organism?

I swear, abortionism is a religion. You people sound like the YECs demanding creationism be taught in the schools, dancing around the definition of a scientific theory

How dense are you?

Take your organism out of the womb and see if your organism lives. Rather simple don't you think?.

That is a stand alone life.

Let's take you out of your natural habitat, too

how long can you survive in space or underwater?

Apparently, the definition of "stand-alone life" is "being able to survive in whatever environment Syrenn arbitrarily decides you should, regardless of what environment Nature has actually designed you to live in". Good to know abortionistas don't have a God complex or anything.

 

[syrenn]

I know exactly what it is that i advocate.

Why can't you admit it to yourself? Why dance around it all this time?

Also, a child might be 'viable' in one room but not another, depending simply on gepgraphic location and proximity to medical personnel and equipment.

If killing these children is okay, why can't you just say 'I support killing innocent and defenseless young children and believe it okay because________'?

What about shooting you in the face today? Is that okay? You can't survive without numerous other lifeforms yourself. If killing you in cold blood is not okay, then why? What changed when that made killing you in cold blood go from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing?

Because 4 week old tissue is not a baby nor is it a child. Something you fail to understand.

 

[syrenn]

Told you folks.

Anyone who supports abortion supports population control and eugenics. ANYONE. I've never met one person who claims they support it for the sake of the children and the women who doesn't REALLY support it because they want to control other people's breeding habits.

JB here is a huge proponent of eugenics..or have you not been paying attention in other threads.

 

[beowolfe]

1/3 of abortions are repeat business

The whole birth control sob story is bullshit

I am also for forced sterilization...of all replete offenders. Both men and women alike.

And just who died and named you Hitler?

 

[JBeukema]

Who are you talking to, Buttemia? It has always been your argument that slaves weren't persons but you've been proven wrong. By the constitution, the very document you pretend to understand and worship.

Delicious!

He will say anything, anything at all, to get a little attention.

Yeah, I think it's pretty easy to conclude that he's a pathological liar. He certainly can't admit to being wrong, ever

http://www.google.com/search?q=jbeukema+"not+the+first+time"+I've+been+wrong+site%3Ausmessageboard.com

 

[Cecilie1200]

Babies can't survive period without someone assisting them.

It's a worthless argument..that something isn't human because it can't feed and clothe itself. It's patently untrue.

I have never suggested that babies can survive on their own without assistance.

I do ask the still unanswered question: Will 4 week old fetal tissue that has been c-sectioned out have "life"? Feel free to give it all the assistance you want, all the life saving support you want but will it have "life"? Is there something there to save that will live?

No, you just keep suggesting that being helpless somehow makes them "less alive" . . . at least when you WANT them to be.

What you're actually doing is repeating the already-many-times answered question, because you didn't like the answers and you DESPERATELY want to believe you're making some sort of important point.

One more time: Yes, if you put a helpless being into an environment for which Nature never designed it, and ignore it, it will die. Which still means that it was a living organism prior to you killing it. Fragility does not disqualify anyone from humanity.

 

[JBeukema]

Viability is the exact issue

So everyone in the ICU ceases to be a person? If I walk into the hospital and start shooting them the head, that's be okay?

, it is not subjective.

Yes, it it. Preemies who could not be saved a decade ago can be saved today. 'Viability' is a meaningless buzzword.

It is the point where the living tissue has a "life" of its own.

No, that's fertilization. Biology 101

So long your environment does not require the forced rental of someone else's body

You had plenty of chances to avoid pregnancy. You could not fuck. You could use the pill, the rods, the foam, condoms, or a myriad of other methods of preventing pregnancy. You can use Plan B to prevent implantation of the zygote in the uterine wall...

Unless you've been strapped to a bed the whole time or something, you've had plenty of opportunity to not get pregnant. You made your decisions. You made your choices. Now it's time to grow up and be a big girl. If you're big enough to fuck, you're big enough to responsible- just like the guy who knocked you up.

Are you big enough to make your own decisions and be responsible for them or not?

 

[JBeukema]

I know exactly what it is that i advocate.

Why can't you admit it to yourself? Why dance around it all this time?

Also, a child might be 'viable' in one room but not another, depending simply on gepgraphic location and proximity to medical personnel and equipment.

If killing these children is okay, why can't you just say 'I support killing innocent and defenseless young children and believe it okay because________'?

What about shooting you in the face today? Is that okay? You can't survive without numerous other lifeforms yourself. If killing you in cold blood is not okay, then why? What changed when that made killing you in cold blood go from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing?

Because 4 week old tissue is not a baby nor is it a child. Something you fail to understand.

There's a science by the name of Biology.

There's also something called Genetics.


They disagree with your religion.

 

[beowolfe]

Told you folks.

Anyone who supports abortion supports population control and eugenics. ANYONE. I've never met one person who claims they support it for the sake of the children and the women who doesn't REALLY support it because they want to control other people's breeding habits.

That would be true only if the government were forcing abortions on people. You guys don't even seem to know the meaning of things that you propose (population control, eugenics). I find it amazing that all of the people trying to give the government the right to decide what happens with a woman's body are predominately men! I guess you still feel the need to control women.