Why Conservative Is Simply Better....

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Interesting, except the current Republican party is not a true Conservative party.

The current Republican party is reactionary with a Neo Conservative idea of spreading Democracy by war which isn't in sync with what Conservatism is about.

A matter of opinion.

What's sure, however, is that the current Democratic Party is the true Progressive party, and all that the modern definition entails. The masks came off when Al Gore lost the 2000 election, and the faces tattooed when Kerry matched that performance 2004.

You're wasting my time trying to change the subject to Liberalism.The Op has made the assertion that Conservatism is better for the individual and for society, the problem of course is that the Republican Party does not meet the standards of Conservatism. Do you have any idea when they will meet that standard?

Another problem is the fact that conservatism is in no way 'better' for the individual or for society.

Actual conservatives like Goldwater and Buckley were wrong but harmless; their beliefs - simplistic, errant, and naïve - never went so far as to threaten the civil rights of Americans, or sought to increase the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty, as most conservatives do today.

Traditional, old guard conservatives of the past were capable of contributing something positive to society; today's conservative ideologues, such as the OP, cannot.

 

[Dad2three]

Interesting, except the current Republican party is not a true Conservative party.

The current Republican party is reactionary with a Neo Conservative idea of spreading Democracy by war which isn't in sync with what Conservatism is about.

A matter of opinion.

What's sure, however, is that the current Democratic Party is the true Progressive party, and all that the modern definition entails. The masks came off when Al Gore lost the 2000 election, and the faces tattooed when Kerry matched that performance 2004.

You're wasting my time trying to change the subject to Liberalism.The Op has made the assertion that Conservatism is better for the individual and for society, the problem of course is that the Republican Party does not meet the standards of Conservatism. Do you have any idea when they will meet that standard?

The nation was designed to espouse classical liberal views, based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

In reality, there are only two choices, Republican or Democrat.

Neither is perfect....but....

Which is closer to the classical liberal view?

(Re-)Introducing: The American School of Economics


When the United States became independent from Britain it also rebelled against the British System of economics, characterized by Adam Smith, in favor of the American School based on protectionism and infrastructure and prospered under this system for almost 200 years to become the wealthiest nation in the world. Unrestrained free trade resurfaced in the early 1900s culminating in the Great Depression and again in the 1970s culminating in the current Economic Meltdown.


Closely related to mercantilism, it can be seen as contrary to classical economics. It consisted of these three core policies:

1. protecting industry through selective high tariffs (especially 1861–1932) and through subsidies (especially 1932–70)
2. government investments in infrastructure creating targeted internal improvements (especially in transportation)
3. a national bank with policies that promote the growth of productive enterprises rather than speculation

It is a capitalist economic school based on the Hamiltonian economic program. The American School of capitalism was intended to allow the United States to become economically independent and nationally self-sufficient.


Frank Bourgin's 1989 study of the Constitutional Convention shows that direct government involvement in the economy was intended by the Founders.


The goal, most forcefully articulated by Hamilton, was to ensure that dearly won political independence was not lost by being economically and financially dependent on the powers and princes of Europe. The creation of a strong central government able to promote science, invention, industry and commerce, was seen as an essential means of promoting the general welfare and making the economy of the United States strong enough for them to determine their own destiny.

American School (economics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BlindBoo]

Which is closer to the classical liberal view?

Neither. Both are tax and spend elitist.

You seem to lack a necessary facility with the English language.
Although it is not my first language, luckily for you, I am here to save the day.


Adv. 1. closer - (comparative of `near' or `close') within a shorter distance; "come closer, mydear!"; "they drew nearer"; "getting nearer to the true explanation"
nearer, nigher
comparative, comparative degree - the comparative form of an adjective or adverb;"`faster' is the comparative of the adjective `fast'"; "`less famous' is the comparativedegree of the adjective `famous'"; "`more surely' is the comparative of the adverb`surely'"
closer


Possibly you now realize what a dunce you appear.


So....try again?

Democrats or Republicans: which is closer to a view based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

You are entitled to your opinions. Both parties have strayed so far from that reservation that any measurement based on such a limited criteria is clearly moot.

 

[g5000]

Conservatism can't be better because historically progress replaces it with something better.

Looks to me like conservatism is winning all over the globe.

The Soviet Union collapsed. China and India are moving away from centrally planned economies toward freer and freer market economies.

Those are huge victories for conservatism.

So when states rights in the US lost out to 'central planning' and slavery was abolished, that was a tragic defeat?

You are sick.

States rights are not lost. The 10th Amendment is not repealed.

Slavery was abolished and civil rights were enforced in spite of the Democrats, not because of them.

Without the Northern Democrats the Civil Rights bill would never have passed.

Democrats stood in the way of every civil rights bill, including every anti-lynching bill in the Senate.

And TODAY, the political descendants of those Southern right wing conservatives stand in the way of every civil rights bill for gays as Republicans.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Interesting, except the current Republican party is not a true Conservative party.

The current Republican party is reactionary with a Neo Conservative idea of spreading Democracy by war which isn't in sync with what Conservatism is about.

A matter of opinion.

What's sure, however, is that the current Democratic Party is the true Progressive party, and all that the modern definition entails. The masks came off when Al Gore lost the 2000 election, and the faces tattooed when Kerry matched that performance 2004.

You're wasting my time trying to change the subject to Liberalism.The Op has made the assertion that Conservatism is better for the individual and for society, the problem of course is that the Republican Party does not meet the standards of Conservatism. Do you have any idea when they will meet that standard?

Another problem is the fact that conservatism is in no way 'better' for the individual or for society.

Actual conservatives like Goldwater and Buckley were wrong but harmless; their beliefs - simplistic, errant, and naïve - never went so far as to threaten the civil rights of Americans, or sought to increase the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty, as most conservatives do today.

Traditional, old guard conservatives of the past were capable of contributing something positive to society; today's conservative ideologues, such as the OP, cannot.

Liberals such as yourself have no problem in taking orders from elites who tell you how to live, and what is good for you.

Hence, "Lock-Step Liberals"

In many cases, you in particular, I can understand the efficacy, as you clearly are unable to think for yourself.

Those of us who are equipped to determine what is best for ourselves despise big government totalitarianism.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Which is closer to the classical liberal view?

Neither. Both are tax and spend elitist.

You seem to lack a necessary facility with the English language.
Although it is not my first language, luckily for you, I am here to save the day.


Adv. 1. closer - (comparative of `near' or `close') within a shorter distance; "come closer, mydear!"; "they drew nearer"; "getting nearer to the true explanation"
nearer, nigher
comparative, comparative degree - the comparative form of an adjective or adverb;"`faster' is the comparative of the adjective `fast'"; "`less famous' is the comparativedegree of the adjective `famous'"; "`more surely' is the comparative of the adverb`surely'"
closer


Possibly you now realize what a dunce you appear.


So....try again?

Democrats or Republicans: which is closer to a view based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

You are entitled to your opinions. Both parties have strayed so far from that reservation that any measurement based on such a limited criteria is clearly moot.

'You can run, but you can't hide.'
The Brown Bomber.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Looks to me like conservatism is winning all over the globe.

The Soviet Union collapsed. China and India are moving away from centrally planned economies toward freer and freer market economies.

Those are huge victories for conservatism.

So when states rights in the US lost out to 'central planning' and slavery was abolished, that was a tragic defeat?

You are sick.

States rights are not lost. The 10th Amendment is not repealed.

Slavery was abolished and civil rights were enforced in spite of the Democrats, not because of them.

Without the Northern Democrats the Civil Rights bill would never have passed.

Democrats stood in the way of every civil rights bill, including every anti-lynching bill in the Senate.

And TODAY, the political descendants of those Southern right wing conservatives stand in the way of every civil rights bill for gays as Republicans.

The Democrats have always been the party of racism.

In fact, the most popular elected Democrat, former President Clinton, has an unmitigated history of racism.

Bet you love Clinton, huh, Fakey II?

 

[NYcarbineer]

This is a timely thread on the same day that a price gouger in the pharmaceutical industry has become Conservatism's latest hero.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So when states rights in the US lost out to 'central planning' and slavery was abolished, that was a tragic defeat?

You are sick.

States rights are not lost. The 10th Amendment is not repealed.

Slavery was abolished and civil rights were enforced in spite of the Democrats, not because of them.

Without the Northern Democrats the Civil Rights bill would never have passed.

Democrats stood in the way of every civil rights bill, including every anti-lynching bill in the Senate.

And TODAY, the political descendants of those Southern right wing conservatives stand in the way of every civil rights bill for gays as Republicans.

The Democrats have always been the party of racism.

In fact, the most popular elected Democrat, former President Clinton, has an unmitigated history of racism.

Bet you love Clinton, huh, Fakey II?

Do you know what the word 'unmitigated' means?

 

[NYcarbineer]

He's pretending that the totalitarian regime of the Soviet Union was somehow an example of liberalism. In short, he's stupid.

No, I am saying a free market economy is what conservatism is all about.

Nice try.

American Liberals were quite obsequious to the USSR, though. And not a few left wingers were outright commies and comsymps in the 60s and 70s.

"I'll take two Che Guevara shirts, please."

We have a market economy in this country. We also have rightwing extremists. Get to your point, preferably in English.

I did get to my point. Quite succinctly. Right at the start of this little chain of uncomprehending idiocy which followed.

Allow me to refresh your amazingly short memory:

Conservatism can't be better because historically progress replaces it with something better.

Looks to me like conservatism is winning all over the globe.

The Soviet Union collapsed. China and India are moving away from centrally planned economies toward freer and freer market economies.

Those are huge victories for conservatism.

And so we see progress replaced failed left wing systems with successful right wing systems, contrary to your claim.

I wasn't aware that Liberals supported totalitarian dictatorship. Name the prominent Liberals in America who do.

obama…..kerry…..anyone of them who supports the castros…...

They don't.

 

[PoliticalChic]

States rights are not lost. The 10th Amendment is not repealed.

Slavery was abolished and civil rights were enforced in spite of the Democrats, not because of them.

Without the Northern Democrats the Civil Rights bill would never have passed.

Democrats stood in the way of every civil rights bill, including every anti-lynching bill in the Senate.

And TODAY, the political descendants of those Southern right wing conservatives stand in the way of every civil rights bill for gays as Republicans.

The Democrats have always been the party of racism.

In fact, the most popular elected Democrat, former President Clinton, has an unmitigated history of racism.

Bet you love Clinton, huh, Fakey II?

Do you know what the word 'unmitigated' means?

"absolute, without excuse"

Do you have any disagreement with the sentence itself?
"...the most popular elected Democrat, former President Clinton, has an unmitigated history of racism."

 

[NYcarbineer]

Without the Northern Democrats the Civil Rights bill would never have passed.

Democrats stood in the way of every civil rights bill, including every anti-lynching bill in the Senate.

And TODAY, the political descendants of those Southern right wing conservatives stand in the way of every civil rights bill for gays as Republicans.

The Democrats have always been the party of racism.

In fact, the most popular elected Democrat, former President Clinton, has an unmitigated history of racism.

Bet you love Clinton, huh, Fakey II?

Do you know what the word 'unmitigated' means?

"absolute, without excuse"

Do you have any disagreement with the sentence itself?
"...the most popular elected Democrat, former President Clinton, has an unmitigated history of racism."

Clinton had several African-American cabinet members. An 'absolute' racist would have had none.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Democrats stood in the way of every civil rights bill, including every anti-lynching bill in the Senate.

And TODAY, the political descendants of those Southern right wing conservatives stand in the way of every civil rights bill for gays as Republicans.

The Democrats have always been the party of racism.

In fact, the most popular elected Democrat, former President Clinton, has an unmitigated history of racism.

Bet you love Clinton, huh, Fakey II?

Do you know what the word 'unmitigated' means?

"absolute, without excuse"

Do you have any disagreement with the sentence itself?
"...the most popular elected Democrat, former President Clinton, has an unmitigated history of racism."

Clinton had these African-American cabinet appointments. An 'absolute' racist would have had none.

Bush, Clinton Still Lead President Obama in Black Cabinet Picks | Politic365

 

[Dad2three]

So when states rights in the US lost out to 'central planning' and slavery was abolished, that was a tragic defeat?

You are sick.

States rights are not lost. The 10th Amendment is not repealed.

Slavery was abolished and civil rights were enforced in spite of the Democrats, not because of them.

Without the Northern Democrats the Civil Rights bill would never have passed.

Democrats stood in the way of every civil rights bill, including every anti-lynching bill in the Senate.

And TODAY, the political descendants of those Southern right wing conservatives stand in the way of every civil rights bill for gays as Republicans.

The Democrats have always been the party of racism.

In fact, the most popular elected Democrat, former President Clinton, has an unmitigated history of racism.

Bet you love Clinton, huh, Fakey II?

The CONservatives old bait and switch.

Hint IDEOLOGY:

CONservatives of the CONfederate States of AmeriKKKa WERE Democrats who fought PROGRESSIVE ABE and the Repubs, it was PROGRESSIVES who gave US civil rights, while the CONservatives (almost exclusively from the Southern CONservative CONfederate states of AmeriKKKa who fought it.


UNLESS YOU THINK MLK JR WOULD NE A GOPer today?


"The contemporary tendency in our society is to base our distribution on scarcity, which has vanished, and to compress our abundance into the overfed mouths of the middle and upper classes until they gag with superfluity. If democracy is to have breadth of meaning, it is necessary to adjust this inequity. It is not only moral, but it is also intelligent. We are wasting and degrading human life by clinging to archaic thinking.

The curse of poverty has no justification in our age. It is socially as cruel and blind as the practice of cannibalism at the dawn of civilization, when men ate each other because they had not yet learned to take food from the soil or to consume the abundant animal life around them. The time has come for us to civilize ourselves by the total, direct and immediate abolition of poverty."


lol

 

[TemplarKormac]

The current Republican party is reactionary with a Neo Conservative idea of spreading Democracy by war which isn't in sync with what Conservatism is about.

Or, it could be because you're so far left that a middle of the road conservative looks like a Neo-Conservative. I'd wager you don't know what a true conservative is yourself.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The Op has made the assertion that Conservatism is better for the individual and for society, the problem of course is that the Republican Party does not meet the standards of Conservatism.

Being the liberal that you are, what do you know of true conservatism?

 

[David_42]

The Op has made the assertion that Conservatism is better for the individual and for society, the problem of course is that the Republican Party does not meet the standards of Conservatism.

Being the liberal that you are, what do you know of true conservatism?

Social conservatives:
"Social conservatives may believe that the government has a role in encouraging or enforcing traditional values or behaviours. A social conservative wants to preserve traditional morality and social mores, often by opposing what they consider radical policies or social engineering."
If you want to talk about conservatives like reagan who tripled the national debt, go for it.

 

[2aguy]

Looks to me like conservatism is winning all over the globe.

The Soviet Union collapsed. China and India are moving away from centrally planned economies toward freer and freer market economies.

Those are huge victories for conservatism.

So when states rights in the US lost out to 'central planning' and slavery was abolished, that was a tragic defeat?

You are sick.

States rights are not lost. The 10th Amendment is not repealed.

Slavery was abolished and civil rights were enforced in spite of the Democrats, not because of them.

Without the Northern Democrats the Civil Rights bill would never have passed.

Democrats stood in the way of every civil rights bill, including every anti-lynching bill in the Senate.

And TODAY, the political descendants of those Southern right wing conservatives stand in the way of every civil rights bill for gays as Republicans.

the racists yesterday and today are the democrats.....you can't change that with lies.

 

[2aguy]

The Op has made the assertion that Conservatism is better for the individual and for society, the problem of course is that the Republican Party does not meet the standards of Conservatism.

Being the liberal that you are, what do you know of true conservatism?

Social conservatives:
"Social conservatives may believe that the government has a role in encouraging or enforcing traditional values or behaviours. A social conservative wants to preserve traditional morality and social mores, often by opposing what they consider radical policies or social engineering."
If you want to talk about conservatives like reagan who tripled the national debt, go for it.

Reagan brought in more money through his tax cuts....and the democrat controlled congress spent all of it an more.....they lied to him....

 

[Dad2three]

The Op has made the assertion that Conservatism is better for the individual and for society, the problem of course is that the Republican Party does not meet the standards of Conservatism.

Being the liberal that you are, what do you know of true conservatism?

Social conservatives:
"Social conservatives may believe that the government has a role in encouraging or enforcing traditional values or behaviours. A social conservative wants to preserve traditional morality and social mores, often by opposing what they consider radical policies or social engineering."
If you want to talk about conservatives like reagan who tripled the national debt, go for it.

Reagan brought in more money through his tax cuts....and the democrat controlled congress spent all of it an more.....they lied to him....

Tax cuts do NOT pay for themselves. -Alan Greenspan Former Federal Reserve Chairman

Reagan Chief Economist Feldstein: "It's Not That You Get More Revenue By Lowering Tax Rates, It Is That You Don't Lose As Much."

Feldstein In 1986: "Hyperbole" That Reagan Tax Cut "Would Actually Increase Tax Revenue."

Conservative Economist Holtz-Eakin: "No Serious Research Evidence" Suggests Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."


Bush CEA Chair Mankiw: Claim That Broad-Based Income Tax Cuts Increase Revenue Is Not "Credible," Capital Income Tax Cuts Also Don't Pay For Themselves

Bush-Appointed Federal Reserve Chair Bernanke: "I Don't Think That As A General Rule Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."


Bush Treasury Secretary Paulson: "As A General Rule, I Don't Believe That Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."

Bush OMB Director Nussle: "Some Say That [The Tax Cut] Was A Total Loss. Some Say They Totally Pay For Themselves. It's Neither Extreme."


Bush CEA Chairman Lazear: "As A General Rule, We Do Not Think Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."


Bush Economic Adviser Viard: "Federal Revenue Is Lower Today Than It Would Have Been Without The Tax Cuts."


Bush Treasury Official Carroll: "We Do Not Think Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."



The historical myth that Reagan raised $1 of taxes in exchange for $3 of spending cuts




The Pinocchio Test



It is time to abandon this myth. Reagan may have convinced himself he had been snookered, but that belief is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the deal he had reached.

Congress was never expected to match the tax increases with spending cuts on a 3-to-1 basis. Reagan appeared to acknowledge this in his speech when he referred to outlays (which would include interest expenses), rather than spending cuts. In the end, lawmakers apparently did a better job of living up to the bargain than the administration did.



If people want to cite the lessons of history, they need to get the history right in the first place.



Four Pinocchios

The historical myth that Reagan raised $1 of taxes in exchange for $3 of spending cuts