Why Conservatives just don't get the pope

[TooTall]

How do you know?

Because he's a Catholic. He's head of the Catholic Church. Not all Christians are Catholic. To liberals, like yourself, the two terms might be interchangable. In the real world, to real Christians the Pope's word has meaning only to Catholics. Other denominations pretty much ignore him. The Pope speaks for and represents a single Christian denomination.

Then you acknowledge that being anti-abortion or against same sex marriage are not Christian positions, IOW,

a person can be pro-choice and pro same sex marriage and be just as Christian as the next person?

A person that is pro-choice and/or pro same sex marriage may call themselves a Christian, but they are not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

[Katzndogz]

Because he's a Catholic. He's head of the Catholic Church. Not all Christians are Catholic. To liberals, like yourself, the two terms might be interchangable. In the real world, to real Christians the Pope's word has meaning only to Catholics. Other denominations pretty much ignore him. The Pope speaks for and represents a single Christian denomination.

Then you acknowledge that being anti-abortion or against same sex marriage are not Christian positions, IOW,

a person can be pro-choice and pro same sex marriage and be just as Christian as the next person?

A person that is pro-choice and/or pro same sex marriage may call themselves a Christian, but they are not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.

They aren't your kind of Christian. There are varying interpretation of what Jesus did say. Talk to a theologian. All that is required to be a Christian is that you believe that Jesus was the born Son of God. That he died and was resurrected. Everything else is a decison of denomination.

 

[TooTall]

The Pope gets it because he understands the Catholic Church is not about blind doctrine, tradition or the trappings of wealth

It is about people

and that just happens to go against everything today's Repubs stand for ATV's, jet-skis & vacation houses AKA- material posessions.

I sure hope the Democrats don't find out about all of that stuff.

 

[TooTall]

The Pope gets it because he understands the Catholic Church is not about blind doctrine, tradition or the trappings of wealth

It is about people

This is the statement the Pope made that I dislike:

In order to be true peacemakers, we must educate ourselves in compassion, solidarity, working together, fraternity, in being active within the community and concerned to raise awareness about national and international issues and the importance of seeking adequate mechanisms for the redistribution of wealth, the promotion of growth, cooperation for development and conflict resolution.

Wealth that is acquired by an individual is not for the taking. That is called theft. The Pope certainly can't be for the commission of a crime.

Some wealthy Americans such as Bill Gates (and many others) have a charitable foundation that give 10's of millions of dollars to aid the poor all over the world.

Perhaps the Pope was referring to wealthy Arab oil barons, or South American drug cartels.

 

[TooTall]

Then you acknowledge that being anti-abortion or against same sex marriage are not Christian positions, IOW,

a person can be pro-choice and pro same sex marriage and be just as Christian as the next person?

A person that is pro-choice and/or pro same sex marriage may call themselves a Christian, but they are not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.

They aren't your kind of Christian. There are varying interpretation of what Jesus did say. Talk to a theologian. All that is required to be a Christian is that you believe that Jesus was the born Son of God. That he died and was resurrected. Everything else is a decison of denomination.

You are correct as far as you went. A Christian is also expected to walk the walk.

I would be interested in knowing what Christian denomination approves of abortion and same sex marriage.

 

[Vox]

I believe in paragraph 56 he asserts trickle down only, or largely, only benefit the monied elite. But, I believe the above quote is a direct indictment of the philosophy that decreasing taxes on the wealthy will always benefit all. And, he's correct. There's no econ support for trickle down or the notion that tax cuts always pay for themselves.

However, more importantly imo, I agree his comments are not directly aimed at our national economy. His view is that the govt and leaders have a responsibility to use policy to more fully spread the economic gains to all people. And, there I think he speaks directly to America. To the extent possible we should aid in global education. But, the reality also is that globalization has benefited the poor in asia.

he is correct only in application to SELECT ( not all of them) third world countries.
Most probably the South American ones. So yes, he speaks directly to America. To the SOUTH and Central one. Not to the USA or Canada.

It has ZERO relevance for United States and the other countries of Western world.
It does not apply to 80% of the countries which used to be second world as well.

 

[Vox]

The Pope gets it because he understands the Catholic Church is not about blind doctrine, tradition or the trappings of wealth

It is about people

This is the statement the Pope made that I dislike:

In order to be true peacemakers, we must educate ourselves in compassion, solidarity, working together, fraternity, in being active within the community and concerned to raise awareness about national and international issues and the importance of seeking adequate mechanisms for the redistribution of wealth, the promotion of growth, cooperation for development and conflict resolution.

Wealth that is acquired by an individual is not for the taking. That is called theft. The Pope certainly can't be for the commission of a crime.

Some wealthy Americans such as Bill Gates (and many others) have a charitable foundation that give 10's of millions of dollars to aid the poor all over the world.

Perhaps the Pope was referring to wealthy Arab oil barons, or South American drug cartels.

He most certainly was NOT talking to Northern American middle class and even US rich.

 

[Vox]

A person that is pro-choice and/or pro same sex marriage may call themselves a Christian, but they are not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.

They aren't your kind of Christian. There are varying interpretation of what Jesus did say. Talk to a theologian. All that is required to be a Christian is that you believe that Jesus was the born Son of God. That he died and was resurrected. Everything else is a decison of denomination.

You are correct as far as you went. A Christian is also expected to walk the walk.

I would be interested in knowing what Christian denomination approves of abortion and same sex marriage.

plenty of Protestants and most certainly the Anglicans.

 

[TooTall]

They aren't your kind of Christian. There are varying interpretation of what Jesus did say. Talk to a theologian. All that is required to be a Christian is that you believe that Jesus was the born Son of God. That he died and was resurrected. Everything else is a decison of denomination.

You are correct as far as you went. A Christian is also expected to walk the walk.

I would be interested in knowing what Christian denomination approves of abortion and same sex marriage.

plenty of Protestants and most certainly the Anglicans.

Fair enough, so what Protestant Church pays for abortions for the poor and performs same sex marrages? Just askin'

 

[Vox]

You are correct as far as you went. A Christian is also expected to walk the walk.

I would be interested in knowing what Christian denomination approves of abortion and same sex marriage.

plenty of Protestants and most certainly the Anglicans.

Fair enough, so what Protestant Church pays for abortions for the poor and performs same sex marrages? Just askin'

I don't know but there were news about this or that particular church ordaining a gay bishop or performing a gay marriage and I have never heard those same churches ever oppose murdering the babies in utero.

But to be honest, I do not know Protestant denominations too well. I am not Protestant.

 

[velvtacheeze]

Pope Francis is not for gay marriage and abortion, so liberals and conservatives should calm down about what he said.

Pope Francis is for the RCC not being so preachy about those kinds of issues. The RCC should tell, even expect, practicing Catholics to live their lives in accordance with the rules of the RCC. But it should stfu about getting governments to enact laws that enforce the RCC's views on abortion and marriage.

On economics, Pope Francis' statements aren't different from what JP2 and Ben16 have said. Conservatives used to ignore those two Popes about economics, because they still were 1950s about social issues. But now , all of a sudden, Francis is a marxist? Please.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Because he's a Catholic. He's head of the Catholic Church. Not all Christians are Catholic. To liberals, like yourself, the two terms might be interchangable. In the real world, to real Christians the Pope's word has meaning only to Catholics. Other denominations pretty much ignore him. The Pope speaks for and represents a single Christian denomination.

Then you acknowledge that being anti-abortion or against same sex marriage are not Christian positions, IOW,

a person can be pro-choice and pro same sex marriage and be just as Christian as the next person?

A person that is pro-choice and/or pro same sex marriage may call themselves a Christian, but they are not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Show me exactly where Jesus said not to have abortions or to not be homosexual.

Show me exactly where He said it.

Don't think that you are authorized to speak for Him.

And remember that the Pope is not pro-abortion or pro-homosexual.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You can't. That's why anarchy is the only moral solution.

However, one thing you can't credibly claim is that the federal government received the consent of the governed for anything it does.

Is it 'moral' for one man to claim a piece of property as his own if he doesn't have the consent of everyone around him, unanimously, to make that claim?

If he is the first one to use that property, then yes it is.

What if some of us don't consent to that rule of property?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Because he's a Catholic. He's head of the Catholic Church. Not all Christians are Catholic. To liberals, like yourself, the two terms might be interchangable. In the real world, to real Christians the Pope's word has meaning only to Catholics. Other denominations pretty much ignore him. The Pope speaks for and represents a single Christian denomination.

Then you acknowledge that being anti-abortion or against same sex marriage are not Christian positions, IOW,

a person can be pro-choice and pro same sex marriage and be just as Christian as the next person?

A person that is pro-choice and/or pro same sex marriage may call themselves a Christian, but they are not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Christ is not on record anywhere opposing abortion. Or same sex marriage. In fact Christ isn't really on record on anything. Everything alleged to be the teachings of Jesus Christ is hearsay.

 

[Vox]

Then you acknowledge that being anti-abortion or against same sex marriage are not Christian positions, IOW,

a person can be pro-choice and pro same sex marriage and be just as Christian as the next person?

A person that is pro-choice and/or pro same sex marriage may call themselves a Christian, but they are not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Show me exactly where Jesus said not to have abortions or to not be homosexual.

Show me exactly where He said it.

Don't think that you are authorized to speak for Him.

And remember that the Pope is not pro-abortion or pro-homosexual.

"I have kept My Father's commandments" (John 15:10).
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder', and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" (Mat 5:21-22). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "You shall not murder" (Mat 19:18). "...murders...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:21,23). "Do not murder" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not murder" (Luke 18:20).

. "Do not commit adultery" (Mk 10:19)
"You shall not commit adultery" (Mat 19:18)
"...adulteries, fornications...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:21,23).
"You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery" (Luke 18:20).
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...adulteries, fornications...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20).

Enough?

 

[Vox]

sex outside the marriage is adultery or fornication, therefore gay sex is a sin by default, becasue there is no marriage between people of one sex in the Bible and by Jesus:

Marriage between a man and a woman was instituted by God with Adam and Eve. Genesis 2:24 states: "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh."

In Matthew 19:4-5, Jesus reaffirms this: "He answered, ‘Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one’?"

sex between unmarried man and woman is also sin, so relax

 

[JakeStarkey]

A person that is pro-choice and/or pro same sex marriage may call themselves a Christian, but they are not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Show me exactly where Jesus said not to have abortions or to not be homosexual.

Show me exactly where He said it.

Don't think that you are authorized to speak for Him.

And remember that the Pope is not pro-abortion or pro-homosexual.

"I have kept My Father's commandments" (John 15:10).
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder', and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" (Mat 5:21-22). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "You shall not murder" (Mat 19:18). "...murders...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:21,23). "Do not murder" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not murder" (Luke 18:20).

. "Do not commit adultery" (Mk 10:19)
"You shall not commit adultery" (Mat 19:18)
"...adulteries, fornications...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:21,23).
"You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery" (Luke 18:20).
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...adulteries, fornications...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20).

Enough?

Not one of those talk about abortion or homosexuality in the name of Jesus.

Don't think you speak for Jesus, for that would be blasphemy.

Once again, Vox, your opinion is not fact.

 

[Misty]

Is it 'moral' for one man to claim a piece of property as his own if he doesn't have the consent of everyone around him, unanimously, to make that claim?

If he is the first one to use that property, then yes it is.

What if some of us don't consent to that rule of property?

May I have your property. lol

 

[velvtacheeze]

Hey, when deciding how to live our lives, and how we should demand others to live too, let's refer to the writings of Iron Age Jewish Shepherds Great idea.

And if that's not good enough, let's ask an international organization led by single men who forbid themselves from ever having sex, who swish about in flowing robes, and are not trusted to be alone with young boys, what they would do. Great idea.

 

[Vox]

Show me exactly where Jesus said not to have abortions or to not be homosexual.

Show me exactly where He said it.

Don't think that you are authorized to speak for Him.

And remember that the Pope is not pro-abortion or pro-homosexual.

"I have kept My Father's commandments" (John 15:10).
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder', and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" (Mat 5:21-22). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "You shall not murder" (Mat 19:18). "...murders...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:21,23). "Do not murder" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not murder" (Luke 18:20).

. "Do not commit adultery" (Mk 10:19)
"You shall not commit adultery" (Mat 19:18)
"...adulteries, fornications...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:21,23).
"You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery" (Luke 18:20).
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...adulteries, fornications...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20).

Enough?

Not one of those talk about abortion or homosexuality in the name of Jesus.

Don't think you speak for Jesus, for that would be blasphemy.

Once again, Vox, your opinion is not fact.

yes, they do.

DIRECTLY.

sorry, if you can't comprehend that.
abortion IS a murder and gay sex is a sin of fornication. at least.
forbidden by 2 commandments.
And Jesus confirmed that.

and His words are a fact.
He directly named homosexual sex and abortion a SIN.

A mortal one, BTW.