Why did God create evil?

[Meriweather]

Evil can’t exist without someone having made it. Things can’t make themselves. I thought you knew that.

People make evil. That is not hard to understand. As I noted in the other thread, this is an age old question, one that ancient Greeks dealt with as well. Plato suggests that willful ignorance leads to evil.

 

[buttercup]

I noticed that someone on another thread was asking this question, implying that everything is God's fault, or that God is evil. On that thread I didn't see anyone give what I think is the correct answer, and I wanted to reply, but I had to leave the house so I didn't have time.

It all comes down to free will. God did not create "evil." God gave us free will, and the inevitable price of free will is that some people will choose to do evil. Evil is the opposition of goodness, it is when someone goes against God's perfect nature and what he expects of us (truth, love, justice, etc.)

So when someone uses the gift of free will in the wrong way, that is on them. Do not blame God for giving you freedom. Because the alternative would be immoral. If God created us with no freedom to make choices, like robots, or puppets on a string, with no choice in whether to follow God or not... THAT would be evil and wrong. But that isn't what God did. He gave us the freedom to make choices, good or bad. And as a consequence, there is evil in this world. But it is just temporary.

Agreed. I'm interested to know if you believe in the concept of Heaven and Hell. More specifically do you believe those who choose evil are punished infinitely and those who choose good are rewarded infinitely?

Yes, I do believe in heaven and hell. However, I’m still seeking the truth on the topic, and how to correctly interpret the scriptures on it. I lean toward believing that the punishment is mainly emotional, as opposed to physical. Knowing that one made the wrong decision, knowing that one will be eternally separated from God, because of their foolish choice to reject God‘s gift of forgiveness and salvation. That said, I don’t believe that hell is a one-size-fits-all, there are different degrees or levels, depending on one’s actions in life. Just as there are different levels of rewards, for people in heaven. And that is scriptural.

Why do you ask? What do you think?

 

[Taz]

Evil can’t exist without someone having made it. Things can’t make themselves. I thought you knew that.

People make evil. That is not hard to understand. As I noted in the other thread, this is an age old question, one that ancient Greeks dealt with as well. Plato suggests that willful ignorance leads to evil.

So you're actually saying that god didn't make everything in the universe, and for a purpose. That other beings made some of the things on their own without god's okay. Is that your final answer?

 

[Meriweather]

So you're actually saying that god didn't make everything in the universe, and for a purpose. That other beings made some of the things on their own without god's okay. Is that your final answer?

Stop being obtuse, it is not only unbecoming, it is unnecessary. As an example, let's use a bowel movement (again). Did God create your last bowel movement, or did you produce it? If you ever burned something you cooked, did God burn it, or was that your own production? As a teacher, I can hand out paper with the instructions it is to be used to make a graph and then turned it at the end of the period. It is not unusual for one student to use the paper to make a paper airplane, then deposit it in the trash at the end of the period.

In other words, a teacher fulfills his/her part by providing material and instructions. Willful ignorance and willful disobedience will result in that "evil F". The teacher does not not create that evil F as there was nothing there to evaluate. The fact there was nothing to evaluate came about through willful ignorance on the part of the student.

As an aside: Muslim belief is that if someone burns their meal, it was God's will they burned it--otherwise it would not have burned. They applied the say thinking to 9/11. If God had not willed the plane to crash into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, it never would have happened. Since it did happen, it was God's will. Their belief is that no one can lift their little finger without it first being the will of God. As far as I know, this belief is only found in the Muslim faith. Jews and Christians believe we bear responsibility for our own actions.

As a teacher, I can help you make sense out of all your present rigamarole:

1. I do not believe in God.
2. Therefore, I do not believe anything in the physical world was created by God.
3. If I can show that God did not create one thing, that will show that their God did not create anything.
4. I believe I have done that.

Okay then. Let's move on. You have proven something to your satisfaction, and isn't that what matters? You feel you have won this game of "Gotcha!" and that is perfectly okay with me. That is because I am certain one day you will outgrow games of Candy Land, Chutes and Ladders, and Gotcha! One day Apron Tugging will mean getting on your knees because you have grown taller than said apron.

I am patient. I can wait.

 

[mudwhistle]

I noticed that someone on another thread was asking this question, implying that everything is God's fault, or that God is evil. On that thread I didn't see anyone give what I think is the correct answer, and I wanted to reply, but I had to leave the house so I didn't have time.

It all comes down to free will. God did not create "evil." God gave us free will, and the inevitable price of free will is that some people will choose to do evil. Evil is the opposition of goodness, it is when someone goes against God's perfect nature and what he expects of us (truth, love, justice, etc.)

So when someone uses the gift of free will in the wrong way, that is on them. Do not blame God for giving you freedom. Because the alternative would be immoral. If God created us with no freedom to make choices, like robots, or puppets on a string, with no choice in whether to follow God or not... THAT would be evil and wrong. But that isn't what God did. He gave us the freedom to make choices, good or bad. And as a consequence, there is evil in this world. But it is just temporary.

Democrats= Evil
Republicans= Sort of Evil

Democrats.... The absence of good.

 

[Taz]

So you're actually saying that god didn't make everything in the universe, and for a purpose. That other beings made some of the things on their own without god's okay. Is that your final answer?

Stop being obtuse, it is not only unbecoming, it is unnecessary. As an example, let's use a bowel movement (again). Did God create your last bowel movement, or did you produce it? If you ever burned something you cooked, did God burn it, or was that your own production? As a teacher, I can hand out paper with the instructions it is to be used to make a graph and then turned it at the end of the period. It is not unusual for one student to use the paper to make a paper airplane, then deposit it in the trash at the end of the period.

In other words, a teacher fulfills his/her part by providing material and instructions. Willful ignorance and willful disobedience will result in that "evil F". The teacher does not not create that evil F as there was nothing there to evaluate. The fact there was nothing to evaluate came about through willful ignorance on the part of the student.

As an aside: Muslim belief is that if someone burns their meal, it was God's will they burned it--otherwise it would not have burned. They applied the say thinking to 9/11. If God had not willed the plane to crash into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, it never would have happened. Since it did happen, it was God's will. Their belief is that no one can lift their little finger without it first being the will of God. As far as I know, this belief is only found in the Muslim faith. Jews and Christians believe we bear responsibility for our own actions.

As a teacher, I can help you make sense out of all your present rigamarole:

1. I do not believe in God.
2. Therefore, I do not believe anything in the physical world was created by God.
3. If I can show that God did not create one thing, that will show that their God did not create anything.
4. I believe I have done that.

Okay then. Let's move on. You have proven something to your satisfaction, and isn't that what matters? You feel you have won this game of "Gotcha!" and that is perfectly okay with me. That is because I am certain one day you will outgrow games of Candy Land, Chutes and Ladders, and Gotcha! One day Apron Tugging will mean getting on your knees because you have grown taller than said apron.

I am patient. I can wait.

God created bowel movements in general, just like evil. God didn't need to make us take a dump, nor did he need to make evil. So I'm asking WHY did god make evil for man to use? As for burning, god made fire, just like he made evil. And gave man the desire to heat and be evil. WHY?

You said "a teacher fulfills his/her part by providing material and instructions", as in: god made evil and showed humans how to use it. Thanks for clearing that up.

I believe that a god has not been proven, but leave the door open if anyone ever comes up with real proof. Can't be any fairer than that.

 

[Meriweather]

Can't be any fairer than that.

Hmmm. So you think of yourself as fair.

 

[Taz]

Can't be any fairer than that.

Hmmm. So you think of yourself as fair.

Yes, I'm giving everyone a crack at explaining why god made evil. So far though, no one has been able to explain it properly.

 

[ding]

Can't be any fairer than that.

Hmmm. So you think of yourself as fair.

Yes, I'm giving everyone a crack at explaining why god made evil. So far though, no one has been able to explain it properly.

The answer is in the OP.

God did not create evil. Existence is good.

 

[buttercup]

So you're actually saying that god didn't make everything in the universe, and for a purpose. That other beings made some of the things on their own without god's okay. Is that your final answer?

Stop being obtuse, it is not only unbecoming, it is unnecessary. As an example, let's use a bowel movement (again). Did God create your last bowel movement, or did you produce it? If you ever burned something you cooked, did God burn it, or was that your own production? As a teacher, I can hand out paper with the instructions it is to be used to make a graph and then turned it at the end of the period. It is not unusual for one student to use the paper to make a paper airplane, then deposit it in the trash at the end of the period.

In other words, a teacher fulfills his/her part by providing material and instructions. Willful ignorance and willful disobedience will result in that "evil F". The teacher does not not create that evil F as there was nothing there to evaluate. The fact there was nothing to evaluate came about through willful ignorance on the part of the student.

As an aside: Muslim belief is that if someone burns their meal, it was God's will they burned it--otherwise it would not have burned. They applied the say thinking to 9/11. If God had not willed the plane to crash into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, it never would have happened. Since it did happen, it was God's will. Their belief is that no one can lift their little finger without it first being the will of God. As far as I know, this belief is only found in the Muslim faith. Jews and Christians believe we bear responsibility for our own actions.

As a teacher, I can help you make sense out of all your present rigamarole:

1. I do not believe in God.
2. Therefore, I do not believe anything in the physical world was created by God.
3. If I can show that God did not create one thing, that will show that their God did not create anything.
4. I believe I have done that.

Okay then. Let's move on. You have proven something to your satisfaction, and isn't that what matters? You feel you have won this game of "Gotcha!" and that is perfectly okay with me. That is because I am certain one day you will outgrow games of Candy Land, Chutes and Ladders, and Gotcha! One day Apron Tugging will mean getting on your knees because you have grown taller than said apron.

I am patient. I can wait.

God created bowel movements in general, just like evil. God didn't need to make us take a dump, nor did he need to make evil. So I'm asking WHY did god make evil for man to use? As for burning, god made fire, just like he made evil. And gave man the desire to heat and be evil. WHY?

You said "a teacher fulfills his/her part by providing material and instructions", as in: god made evil and showed humans how to use it. Thanks for clearing that up.

I believe that a god has not been proven, but leave the door open if anyone ever comes up with real proof. Can't be any fairer than that.

As was stated 50,000 times now, God did not make evil. God gave us free will. And the answer to why God made things this way is because the alternative would have been a world of puppets on a string, with absolutely no ability to make choices on their own, no ability to choose their actions or destiny.

So now let me ask you a question. Would you have preferred being a puppet on a string? Because that’s the only way you would have a world without evil. But then you also wouldn’t have freedom. The price of freedom is some people misusing it. Why is that so, so, so hard for you to understand?

 

[Taz]

So you're actually saying that god didn't make everything in the universe, and for a purpose. That other beings made some of the things on their own without god's okay. Is that your final answer?

Stop being obtuse, it is not only unbecoming, it is unnecessary. As an example, let's use a bowel movement (again). Did God create your last bowel movement, or did you produce it? If you ever burned something you cooked, did God burn it, or was that your own production? As a teacher, I can hand out paper with the instructions it is to be used to make a graph and then turned it at the end of the period. It is not unusual for one student to use the paper to make a paper airplane, then deposit it in the trash at the end of the period.

In other words, a teacher fulfills his/her part by providing material and instructions. Willful ignorance and willful disobedience will result in that "evil F". The teacher does not not create that evil F as there was nothing there to evaluate. The fact there was nothing to evaluate came about through willful ignorance on the part of the student.

As an aside: Muslim belief is that if someone burns their meal, it was God's will they burned it--otherwise it would not have burned. They applied the say thinking to 9/11. If God had not willed the plane to crash into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, it never would have happened. Since it did happen, it was God's will. Their belief is that no one can lift their little finger without it first being the will of God. As far as I know, this belief is only found in the Muslim faith. Jews and Christians believe we bear responsibility for our own actions.

As a teacher, I can help you make sense out of all your present rigamarole:

1. I do not believe in God.
2. Therefore, I do not believe anything in the physical world was created by God.
3. If I can show that God did not create one thing, that will show that their God did not create anything.
4. I believe I have done that.

Okay then. Let's move on. You have proven something to your satisfaction, and isn't that what matters? You feel you have won this game of "Gotcha!" and that is perfectly okay with me. That is because I am certain one day you will outgrow games of Candy Land, Chutes and Ladders, and Gotcha! One day Apron Tugging will mean getting on your knees because you have grown taller than said apron.

I am patient. I can wait.

God created bowel movements in general, just like evil. God didn't need to make us take a dump, nor did he need to make evil. So I'm asking WHY did god make evil for man to use? As for burning, god made fire, just like he made evil. And gave man the desire to heat and be evil. WHY?

You said "a teacher fulfills his/her part by providing material and instructions", as in: god made evil and showed humans how to use it. Thanks for clearing that up.

I believe that a god has not been proven, but leave the door open if anyone ever comes up with real proof. Can't be any fairer than that.

As was stated 50,000 times now, God did not make evil. God gave us free will. And the answer to why God made things this way is because the alternative would have been a world of puppets on a string, with absolutely no ability to make choices on their own, no ability to choose their actions or destiny.

So now let me ask you a question. Would you have preferred being a puppet on a string? Because that’s the only way you would have a world without evil. But then you also wouldn’t have freedom. The price of freedom is some people misusing it. Why is that so, so, so hard for you to understand?

God could have made a world without evil AND with free choice. After all, he is god, right?

 

[Taz]

Can't be any fairer than that.

Hmmm. So you think of yourself as fair.

Yes, I'm giving everyone a crack at explaining why god made evil. So far though, no one has been able to explain it properly.

The answer is in the OP.

God did not create evil. Existence is good.

If god didn't create evil, who did?

 

[buttercup]

Can't be any fairer than that.

Hmmm. So you think of yourself as fair.

Yes, I'm giving everyone a crack at explaining why god made evil. So far though, no one has been able to explain it properly.

The answer is in the OP.

God did not create evil. Existence is good.

If god didn't create evil, who did?

Maybe you have short-term memory loss. Are you a drug user? Anyway, I’ll answer your question again. Nobody “created” evil. Evil is not a thing, in and of itself. Evil is the absence of good, or when people do something in direct opposition of good.

Who is in direct opposition to good? Rebellious PEOPLE, as well as negative spiritual entities (but that’s a whole other topic.)

Now that I’ve answered your question repeatedly, have a modicum of respect to answer my question. Would you have preferred a world with no freedom whatsoever, would you have preferred to be a puppet on a string, with no ability to make choices, good or bad? Because that is the only way you would have a world without evil… A world with no free will, no freedom.

 

[Taz]

Can't be any fairer than that.

Hmmm. So you think of yourself as fair.

Yes, I'm giving everyone a crack at explaining why god made evil. So far though, no one has been able to explain it properly.

The answer is in the OP.

God did not create evil. Existence is good.

If god didn't create evil, who did?

Maybe you have short-term memory loss. Are you a drug user? Anyway, I’ll answer your question again. Nobody “created” evil. Evil is not a thing, in and of itself. Evil is the absence of good, or when people do something in direct opposition of good.

Who is in direct opposition to good? Rebellious PEOPLE, as well as negative spiritual entities (but that’s a whole other topic.)

Now that I’ve answered your question repeatedly, have a modicum of respect to answer my question. Would you have preferred a world with no freedom whatsoever, would you have preferred to be a puppet on a string, with no ability to make choices, good or bad? Because that is the only way you would have a world without evil… A world with no free will, no freedom.

You're getting upset about answering me again and I'm not even talking to you, this mini thread is with ding and Meri, so don't get upset that you have no answer, just butt the fuck out! Pretty simple, no?

 

[buttercup]

Hmmm. So you think of yourself as fair.

Yes, I'm giving everyone a crack at explaining why god made evil. So far though, no one has been able to explain it properly.

The answer is in the OP.

God did not create evil. Existence is good.

If god didn't create evil, who did?

Maybe you have short-term memory loss. Are you a drug user? Anyway, I’ll answer your question again. Nobody “created” evil. Evil is not a thing, in and of itself. Evil is the absence of good, or when people do something in direct opposition of good.

Who is in direct opposition to good? Rebellious PEOPLE, as well as negative spiritual entities (but that’s a whole other topic.)

Now that I’ve answered your question repeatedly, have a modicum of respect to answer my question. Would you have preferred a world with no freedom whatsoever, would you have preferred to be a puppet on a string, with no ability to make choices, good or bad? Because that is the only way you would have a world without evil… A world with no free will, no freedom.

You're getting upset about answering me again and I'm not even talking to you, this mini thread is with ding and Meri, so don't get upset that you have no answer, just butt the fuck out! Pretty simple, no?

You posted to me in post #411, I just replied to a different post. For you to say I have no answer makes you a big fat liar, ALL of us have been answering you repeatedly, you simply refuse to listen or have a sincere discussion. You’re the one getting upset because I’ve called you out on your childish persistence in asking the same questions over and over and over, which is what you been doing for the entire thread.

But I hope you prove me wrong. I genuinely hope that you will finally grasp what we’ve been saying and move forward in this discussion, even if it’s with ding and not me.

 

[ding]

Can't be any fairer than that.

Hmmm. So you think of yourself as fair.

Yes, I'm giving everyone a crack at explaining why god made evil. So far though, no one has been able to explain it properly.

The answer is in the OP.

God did not create evil. Existence is good.

If god didn't create evil, who did?

That’s been answered extensively by pretty much everyone. It’s time for you to move on.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, I'm giving everyone a crack at explaining why god made evil. So far though, no one has been able to explain it properly.

A failure to listen and heed is not a failure to explain.

Christians, Jews, and many other people of faith see evil very differently from how you insist on seeing it. I had a math student once who insisted on seeing 2+2=22. Naturally, his work got marked wrong. Next, he was so intent on having his own way on 2+2, that he began mixing himself up on other fairly simple math concepts. While he did this longer than I would have liked, it wasn't too long before it occurred to him if he wanted to understand math and arrive home with a good grade, he needed to learn and speak "math" using math laws and formulas.

By now, you should know how Christians, Jews, people of other faiths, and ancient Greeks understand evil. If you still want to make evil into a "22" you will not only be left behind, you will misunderstand other basic faith concepts as well.

We have given you our concept of evil. Many times. Many different ways. Let's move on to: What is your concept of evil? Please use words that even we can understand.

 

[Taz]

Yes, I'm giving everyone a crack at explaining why god made evil. So far though, no one has been able to explain it properly.

The answer is in the OP.

God did not create evil. Existence is good.

If god didn't create evil, who did?

Maybe you have short-term memory loss. Are you a drug user? Anyway, I’ll answer your question again. Nobody “created” evil. Evil is not a thing, in and of itself. Evil is the absence of good, or when people do something in direct opposition of good.

Who is in direct opposition to good? Rebellious PEOPLE, as well as negative spiritual entities (but that’s a whole other topic.)

Now that I’ve answered your question repeatedly, have a modicum of respect to answer my question. Would you have preferred a world with no freedom whatsoever, would you have preferred to be a puppet on a string, with no ability to make choices, good or bad? Because that is the only way you would have a world without evil… A world with no free will, no freedom.

You're getting upset about answering me again and I'm not even talking to you, this mini thread is with ding and Meri, so don't get upset that you have no answer, just butt the fuck out! Pretty simple, no?

You posted to me in post #411, I just replied to a different post. For you to say I have no answer makes you a big fat liar, ALL of us have been answering you repeatedly, you simply refuse to listen or have a sincere discussion. You’re the one getting upset because I’ve called you out on your childish persistence in asking the same questions over and over and over, which is what you been doing for the entire thread.

But I hope you prove me wrong. I genuinely hope that you will finally grasp what we’ve been saying and move forward in this discussion, even if it’s with ding and not me.

You never actually answered the question : why did god make evil? You danced around it and then claimed that you've answered when you haven't. So please try again, if you can.

 

[Taz]

Can't be any fairer than that.

Hmmm. So you think of yourself as fair.

Yes, I'm giving everyone a crack at explaining why god made evil. So far though, no one has been able to explain it properly.

The answer is in the OP.

God did not create evil. Existence is good.

If god didn't create evil, who did?

That’s been answered extensively by pretty much everyone. It’s time for you to move on.

All you said was that you didn't know, not why god made evil. And a lot of mumbo-jumbo about evil being extant and that we're in a universe not completely created by god. Which makes no sense.

 

[ding]

The answer is in the OP.

God did not create evil. Existence is good.

If god didn't create evil, who did?

Maybe you have short-term memory loss. Are you a drug user? Anyway, I’ll answer your question again. Nobody “created” evil. Evil is not a thing, in and of itself. Evil is the absence of good, or when people do something in direct opposition of good.

Who is in direct opposition to good? Rebellious PEOPLE, as well as negative spiritual entities (but that’s a whole other topic.)

Now that I’ve answered your question repeatedly, have a modicum of respect to answer my question. Would you have preferred a world with no freedom whatsoever, would you have preferred to be a puppet on a string, with no ability to make choices, good or bad? Because that is the only way you would have a world without evil… A world with no free will, no freedom.

You're getting upset about answering me again and I'm not even talking to you, this mini thread is with ding and Meri, so don't get upset that you have no answer, just butt the fuck out! Pretty simple, no?

You posted to me in post #411, I just replied to a different post. For you to say I have no answer makes you a big fat liar, ALL of us have been answering you repeatedly, you simply refuse to listen or have a sincere discussion. You’re the one getting upset because I’ve called you out on your childish persistence in asking the same questions over and over and over, which is what you been doing for the entire thread.

But I hope you prove me wrong. I genuinely hope that you will finally grasp what we’ve been saying and move forward in this discussion, even if it’s with ding and not me.

You never actually answered the question : why did god make evil? You danced around it and then claimed that you've answered when you haven't. So please try again, if you can.

Sure I did. God didn’t make evil. Everything God made is good. God created existence. You don’t believe existence is good?