Zone1 Why did Jesus say we had to not only believe but be baptized?

[Meriweather]

yea yea you sound like a priest.....you knew what i was asking and you could not explain it to me to show me how i am wrong...

Seriously, I did not think you were wrong--Wrong about what, exactly? You asked a question I had been asked before. This had me thinking you actually wanted to know what others thought. When you kept brushing responses aside, I thought you wanted to tell us what you thought, and I asked you about this, but you brushed that aside as well.

I don't see anyone wrong either in their faith or lack of faith. In fact, my interest lies in how other people see things, and what their perspective is, whether they believe or do not believe. I'm still interested in your perspective, or I wouldn't have returned to this thread.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Well, except for that pesky little thing about Him creating everything that was created. It doesn't say everything but Himself, it says everything that was created. Then, of course, we see Him leading the armies of heaven, carrying the name "Word of God" and the title "Lord of lords", while God remains on His throne. You do know that "Lord of lords" is a title God claims for Himself, right?

You didn't answer my question, which version of the Bible are you reading that makes you think Yeshua is not God?

the bible was written by men hundreds of years ago and many of them were clergy who im sure used what they wrote to scare you and keep you in line........i had the "pleasure" of being raised a catholic....i was one of the kids who had the gall and audacity to ask questions about things i was told that didnt make sense to me....like who would God pray too?....why are we supposed to pray before statues in the church?....is there life on other planets?....they loved that one....dont be ridiculous,there are no aliens.....yet we are praying to a being not of this earth....if a god truly exist there can only be one bible that is telling the truth for us to see.....i wonder which one it is.....i know its not the catholic one....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Seriously, I did not think you were wrong--Wrong about what, exactly? You asked a question I had been asked before. This had me thinking you actually wanted to know what others thought. When you kept brushing responses aside, I thought you wanted to tell us what you thought, and I asked you about this, but you brushed that aside as well.

I don't see anyone wrong either in their faith or lack of faith. In fact, my interest lies in how other people see things, and what their perspective is, whether they believe or do not believe. I'm still interested in your perspective, or I wouldn't have returned to this thread.

the question i was asking meri was ....if Jesus was god PHYSICALLY here on earth,who would he be praying too?...i was told the father....who i was told is also Jesus....so then i asked...so he is praying to himself?....thats what it looked like to me....then i got the same type of answer i got all those years ago....BS sounded like a priest, i expected him to tell me to say the rosary for asking him that blasphemous question....

 

[Meriweather]

so he is praying to himself?....thats what it looked like to me....

Does it still look like that to you?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Does it still look like that to you?

when i get told what i was told in this thread yes.....i believe Jesus and "God" are 2 very distinct beings....in the garden Jesus was communicating with that being...

 

[Meriweather]

when i get told what i was told in this thread yes.....i believe Jesus and "God" are 2 very distinct beings....in the garden Jesus was communicating with that being...

That makes sense. So where do you go from there?

 

[BS Filter]

Not from God. From Abraham's covenant. Have you never heard the Abrhamic religions are Judioism, Christianty and Islam. Where do go for your theology. To fully understand the Bible you need to know the history of Christianity

I go to my Bible for my theology. Where do you go?

 

[hadit]

the bible was written by men hundreds of years ago and many of them were clergy who im sure used what they wrote to scare you and keep you in line........i had the "pleasure" of being raised a catholic....i was one of the kids who had the gall and audacity to ask questions about things i was told that didnt make sense to me....like who would God pray too?....why are we supposed to pray before statues in the church?....is there life on other planets?....they loved that one....dont be ridiculous,there are no aliens.....yet we are praying to a being not of this earth....if a god truly exist there can only be one bible that is telling the truth for us to see.....i wonder which one it is.....i know its not the catholic one....

I'm not Catholic. Try again. Now, which version of the Bible is telling you that Yeshua is not God? You seem to be avoiding that...

 

[Harry Dresden]

That makes sense. So where do you go from there?

no where....im good...

 

[Crick]

So?

Why does your god change the rules?

 

[Crick]

What magic?

In Christianity, baptism is the visible sign of the invisible reality. Basically, we are aware that as well as being children of God, we are living this life with a fallen human nature, but we are going to choose anyway--to the best of our ability--to away from disobedience and to be obedient to God. Turning from temptation to obedience is not magic, it is an act of will, and sometimes a supreme act of will.

When you have rituals that, when properly performed, accomplish some goal, you are doing magic. This differs from sincerely asking your god to do something or help you or someone else. It is not communication between a worshipper and their deity. Do you see what I mean?

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'm not Catholic. Try again. Now, which version of the Bible is telling you that Yeshua is not God? You seem to be avoiding that...

no one said you were.........i dont read the bible anymore....i have read 3 different versions years ago....the only one i read that said Jesus is god was the catholic one...and you know what i think of them....like i said written by men hundreds of years ago....

 

[hadit]

no one said you were.........i dont read the bible anymore....i have read 3 different versions years ago....the only one i read that said Jesus is god was the catholic one...and you know what i think of them....like i said written by men hundreds of years ago....

The KJV says it as well.

 

[hadit]

When you have rituals that, when properly performed, accomplish some goal, you are doing magic. This differs from sincerely asking your god to do something or help you or someone else. It is not communication between a worshipper and their deity. Do you see what I mean?

I view rituals, done with the intent of obligating God to do something, to be worthless. God is not an ATM, where you push the right buttons in the right sequence and the goodies fall out.

 

[Meriweather]

Why does your god change the rules?

I do not see it as a "rule", but an invitation. Here's how abundantly God can respond to the little we give. Keep in mind one of the first things we learn about God's and our relationship, is that we are free to choose.

 

[Meriweather]

When you have rituals that, when properly performed, accomplish some goal, you are doing magic. This differs from sincerely asking your god to do something or help you or someone else. It is not communication between a worshipper and their deity. Do you see what I mean?

Grin. What I see is that you are changing terms, which makes it a bit difficult to communicate. What we do in our rites/rituals, including Baptism, including worship, is that we bring our offerings to God. Bread and Wine, worship and behavior, and yes money to pay the bills, support charities, etc. We give of ourselves and we open ourselves to receiving (and utilizing) the gifts and blessings given freely to us.

 

[ElmerMudd]

I go to my Bible for my theology. Where do you go?

I take a holistic approach to studying about God.
I am not a theolgian but theoligians look beyond the Bible to better understand the Bible.
People who do not do this have a more limited understanding of the Bible.

 

[BS Filter]

I take a holistic approach to studying about God.
I am not a theolgian but theoligians look beyond the Bible to better understand the Bible.
People who do not do this have a more limited understanding of the Bible.

The Bible is all I need. Religious cults like LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses use other books. Christians only need the Bible and Jesus.

 

[ElmerMudd]

The Bible is all I need. Religious cults like LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses use other books. Christians only need the Bible and Jesus.

That is your opinion. That is not all Christians's opinion.
LDS are baptized and take Jesus as their savior. Are they not Christians.

 

[Cougarbear]

Because matter and energy are not unchanging and therefore cannot be eternal. It seems to me that you are trying to make God into man.

Einstein refutes your statement. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed. It can only change shapes and uses.
I'm not making God into man. I'm stating the fact that the man Jesus was resurrected into an eternal glorified man that will exist forever. And, since Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen your Father in Heaven, then Father in Heaven was already a glorified man. You do have a brain to logically reason, right? Truth is reason and truth is eternal, I know that I also have a Mother in Heaven too. The Mother of my spirit body. My soul or intelligence has always existed and is energy or matter.