Why Do Atheists Insist That Atheism Is Not A Religion?

[sealybobo]

That's because theists don't seem to understand that atheism does not claim that we know for certain that a creator or god exists. And there are all kinds of atheists. I tend to be all over the place on this. I'm a strong atheist, even though I admit you can not know for certain that a god doesn't exist, but I do completely reject all organized religions. So I don't believe anybody who says they talked to god. But I wasn't there 2000 years ago so how can I say 100% that I know for sure?

The most rational position to have is agnostic atheist.

there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere

And I see guys like boss who don't belong to any organized religions are called agnostic theism.

Agnostic atheism
The view of those who do not believe in the existence of any deity, but do not claim to know if a deity does or does not exist.
Agnostic theism
The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence

I believe in god, but not necessarily as a deity that demands to be worshiped... I believe in a god that is everywhere. For me god is life. I believe the fabric of the universe itself is alive, and all that makes energy what it is and isn't is based on a grand architecture. God to me is the architect/architecture if you will but not as supreme being that demands tribute. I believe in jesus, but not necessarily in the exact way he is taught by some religions, close but not exactly. IOW I believe the universe itself to have, or be based on some overriding intelligence.

Who knows? Some of that or even all of that could be true. Best position to have is to say you aren't sure but this is what you believe and to keep on looking.

Based on your "beliefs", what reason would anyone have to believe as you do? Does it matter if you believe in god or do you just have to be a good person?

Ask a million people these questions and you will never get exactly the same answer(s). Why? Because god is all in the mind.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

Define "good."

Sin is real. Arguing that because some of the stories are allegories, sin is fiction.. that's silly. Jesus lived,... he's not an allegory.

If I say god is the universe and you say god is all in my mind... are you saying you don't exist, except in my mind?

Some of the stories? Yesterday I read that the Jonah story is not an allegory. Jesus said so is what they said. So if you believe that story, of course you believe Jesus' mom was a virgin and he was god.

Jesus wasn't an allegory. He was just a man.

If you say god is the universe, I would say you are wrong, or you are trying to redefine the term god.

And what you are saying is that thousands of years ago god regularly visited and talked to us in the most remote parts of the world and then up and disappeared.

So you can't define good. But you think you are the person who gets to define god?

There is no god or at least humans have never seen any solid concrete proof a god exists. He never visited Moses, Noah, Adam & Eve or came to visit us in Jesus' body after he knocked up Mary.

Why would he need to go through the hassle of being a baby? Just appear as an adult Messiah.

 

[sealybobo]

He didn't talk to Joseph Smith or Mohammad either.

 

[RKMBrown]

You're coming close now. Thank you.

To keep from using a shitload of quote commands, the bold text below is copied from your post. My replies are in lower case.


You ask why so I'll try to answer best I can. For one reason, I truly don't think this lie is good for people. I know religions do a lot of good but they also do a lot of bad, and you may agree or disagree with that, but it is my opinion and why I care. I think religion is unnecessary and holds people back mentally/scientifically. I watch those religious shows, see how religion is used to control people, see how slave owners and Pharoahs and Kings used it to control the masses, I talk to hypocrite theists who confirm religion doesn't necessary work, notice that there are 999 other religions all claiming they are the truth and the other ones are not, etc. So these are reasons why I speak up.
Okay. I agree with you here. Many evangelical preachers and televangelists are off their rockers. Benny Hinn is my prime example of ostentatious bullshit. The "prayer clothes", the staged "healings", the limos, the diamond studded Rolex watches, the golden cathedrals, the silk suits and such are all bullshit.



2. A lie is a lie no matter how good it makes people feel.
Again, I agree.

3. I don't like being told I'm going to hell.
I'm almost certain that the dogma of an Atheist religion would not include the existence of hell or any afterlife whatsoever. If you don't believe in a deity, how can you believe in a hell or a heaven? Not to worry. An Atheist Minister (and they do exist) would not say that you're going to hell.

4. Did you see the poll that the least electable person was the atheist? A pot smoking phylanderer has a better chance. I'm here to change perception. I remember being a theist. I thought atheist were the devil. Now I know better and I think others should too.
I haven't seen the poll. Be patient though. We've already elected a black Muslim sympathizer if not a black Muslim.

Perhaps you were misled by a radical, fire and brimstone Baptist preacher. I know better than that myself.

I grew up a Methodist, married a gem of a Baptist girl, saw no sense in our belonging to separate denominations and became a Baptist. After several years of attending church, I was ordained a Baptist deacon, got involved in the Evangelism Explosion wherein we'd go out in pairs and try to convince no-churchgoers to join our church. The instructions were to always ask the questions to the family member that was considered more likely to say "yes". I questioned the leader of the group by asking if this was simply a ploy to manipulate the minds of the other members. He answered affirmatively. I quit the program. I later divorced my wife and became the black sheep of a large Baptist clan of what you might call "bible thumpers". I was also the black sheep of the local church...one which had its fair share of ostentatious trappings. I'm still a Christian but I do not try to push my religious beliefs on others.

5. It is unnecessary and not even all that effective. Lots of religious assholes and look how religion makes gays feel guilty about themselves.
By the same token, gays are lovingly accepted in many churches. That is likely so in all of the existing Atheist churches.

Anyways, that's my feelings, and I don't necessarily care if they get the protected status. They should have to prove their charitable works though. Do churches have to give so much to charity? They should. Otherwise it leaves the door open to all the con artists.
True. There have been all too many corrupt church leaders piling up cash and possessions for themselves, turning their non-profit church into their own personal cash cow. I think churches should be required to give all but the costs of real estate, maintenance thereof and negotiated staff salaries to charities, either philanthropic or medical research charities or directly to the homeless and needy people living around their own community.

I watch that guy on tv ask people to send in $70 x 10 months and a miracle will happen. I wonder how much of that goes to charity and they don't pay taxes?
Again I concur. Asking people to donate any particular amount is ludicrous. There's a parable about that in the NT, I think...where a poor beggar gave all she had...or something like that. I've also heard of some preachers that will say to a member of their congregation something like "I had a revelation from God last night and He said you should donate $500.00." This is nothing more than extortion.

One of the existing Atheist churches has a donation block on their website complete with the little credit card symbols for Visa, Mastercard and Amex. They say that you are welcome to donate but they don't expect you to.

And if there is a god and he actually cares about you he would reward your intelligence.
Not sure about that. I've heard that God takes care of fools and babies. I interpret that to mean that NOBODY is going to hell when this shit is over.

I hear you on USMB all the time stating your opinion. Why do you do it? Aren't you meddling in other people's delusions just by posting the things you write? I agree with the things you write, I'm just saying. Don't act like you don't get some satisfaction explaining to people why you think they are wrong. Why do you do it?
I do post a lot of opinion on USMB. Some of what I post is pure and simply factual. A lot of it is conjecture and speculation. Some of that is to argue against opposing political views. Some of it is to express my considered opinion regarding something that might be unsubstantiated by the poster to whom I reply.

1. I don't have to believe in hell to be annoyed by people who tell me I'm going to hell. Funny I was thinking about this on the way in to work today just how heavily religion relies on guilt. You don't think I sometimes feel guilty or question myself on this god thing? Then I quickly rationalize any issue I have and go about being an atheist.

I even question my position on whether or not religion, regardless of it is true or not, if it is good or bad overall. I know religions do a lot of good too. But they also do a lot of bad and does it even matter? If it is not true, its time for the human race to evolve beyond believing in fairy tales. You can't be that smart of a species if you are so superstitious that you believe the unbelievable, or because you can't imagine any other way. Best to admit you don't know and keep on looking. Plus, I know I'm good even though I don't believe in god so I don't believe it is necessary. If it makes you feel good I'm happy for you.

But I suspect you guys aren't on USMB because you are 100% sure. You can't be. You can't read all our replies and say you are 100% sure.

PS. From now on I think all theists should have to say what their denomination is when they reply. I need to know why they believe in god. Because if they believe the moses, noah, adam & eve stories, then they are just crazy. Or if you are a christian who doesn't take those stories literally, do you also not take the virgin birth, miracle, rose from the dead stories literally either? This is important.

Because a lot of theists on USMB are generic god believers. Or some of them are jews or mormons or muslims. I need to know what crazy I'm dealing with otherwise you guys think you caught us in a mistake when it is hard to keep your fairy tales straight. Last night I saw on a religious game show that Noah lived 350 years after the arc? Is that true?

Okay.


1. I don't have to believe in hell to be annoyed by people who tell me I'm going to hell. Funny I was thinking about this on the way in to work today just how heavily religion relies on guilt. You don't think I sometimes feel guilty or question myself on this god thing? Then I quickly rationalize any issue I have and go about being an atheist.
I don't believe in Hell (as described in the Bible and by many preachers) either. Hell is where we are now.

I even question my position on whether or not religion, regardless of it is true or not, if it is good or bad overall. I know religions do a lot of good too. But they also do a lot of bad and does it even matter? If it is not true, its time for the human race to evolve beyond believing in fairy tales. You can't be that smart of a species if you are so superstitious that you believe the unbelievable, or because you can't imagine any other way. Best to admit you don't know and keep on looking. Plus, I know I'm good even though I don't believe in god so I don't believe it is necessary. If it makes you feel good I'm happy for you.
I concur. That means we both agree that there is no sense in attacking religions just because one might be an atheist and want to express disdain for religion. No matter what a person believes, if it makes them happy and doesn't step on the beliefs of others, I'm happy for them. It's when their religion demands something of me that I take offense....especially if they demand my death for not following their doctrine. That is why I oppose the idea the of hell in the afterlife.

But I suspect you guys aren't on USMB because you are 100% sure. You can't be. You can't read all our replies and say you are 100% sure.
There are many things that I am not 100% sure of...they are based on belief, just as is the Atheist's contention that no deity exists.

PS. From now on I think all theists should have to say what their denomination is when they reply. I need to know why they believe in god. Because if they believe the moses, noah, adam & eve stories, then they are just crazy. Or if you are a christian who doesn't take those stories literally, do you also not take the virgin birth, miracle, rose from the dead stories literally either? This is important.
As I have stated elsewhere, I don't take the Bible literally. It is full of allegory and parables. It may have been inspired by God as they say, but the authors did not understand evolution or geological time so the stories were presented in terms the people of the day could understand. The 6-day creation is obviously preposterous, as is Adam and Eve being only two people. I think God created everything but we will never fully understand how it was done.

Because a lot of theists on USMB are generic god believers. Or some of them are jews or mormons or muslims. I need to know what crazy I'm dealing with otherwise you guys think you caught us in a mistake when it is hard to keep your fairy tales straight. Last night I saw on a religious game show that Noah lived 350 years after the arc? Is that true?
Posters telling you their denominations would only cause you to generalize and conclude that they hold dear to all the teachings of whatever group they claim to be in. I am a Christian. That does not mean I believe what all the puffed-up evangelicals proclaim or every word printed in the Bible, or that God will punish me for not believing everything in it.

If you don't believe Mary was a virgin and god knocked her up and jesus was god and did miracles and rose from the dead then you are not a christian my friend.

I use to call myself a Christian and believed just as you do. It wasn't long before I realized I wasn't a christian but still believed in god and then it wasn't long before I realized there is no god.

Or if there is, he cares about you and I as much as you or I care about a fly on the back of a rhino's back in Africa. You have to realize if the stories are made up, then god has never visited anyone or told anyone anything. We just came up with the concept 400,000 years ago when we were very scared primitive beings. Sentient but uncivilized and wild imaginations plus a healthy fear of the unknown. It's true.

And what if I believe religion is used to control/manipulate the masses? They use god to divide the middle class. They use god to con poor and middle class people into voting against themselves financially just like they use other wedge issues like guns, gays and racism.

My goal is for people to be too smart to be religious. I hope one day people are either spiritual or not spiritual. If you belong to a religion basically you belong to a lie. Jesus didn't rise from the dead and Noah didn't live to be 350 years old.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

Believe what you will...about me, God or anything else in existence.

Whether the other biblical stories are absolutely factual is of no concern to me. Something out of the ordinary, or supernatural happened some 2000 + years ago...significant enough to cause mankind to establish a reference point for recording time. BC meant Before Christ until recently objected to by Atheists who had it changed to BCE Before Common Era.

You should care if the stories are true or not. They say Jonah living in a whales belly is not an allegory. They say Jesus even said it really happened. They say Noah lived 350 years. Think about it. If the Adam & Eve, Moses, Jonah, Noah stories are all allegories, so too are the Jesus myths. You want to believe despite the evidence.

Yea yea, we know the history of how Christianity took hold and how later established BC and AD. So what? If the evidence is so obvious, how come the Chinese and Muslims don't convert? They got their own myth.

You don't understand the story of Jonah. Jonah died in the fish and came back to life 3 days and nights later.

 

[RKMBrown]

I believe in god, but not necessarily as a deity that demands to be worshiped... I believe in a god that is everywhere. For me god is life. I believe the fabric of the universe itself is alive, and all that makes energy what it is and isn't is based on a grand architecture. God to me is the architect/architecture if you will but not as supreme being that demands tribute. I believe in jesus, but not necessarily in the exact way he is taught by some religions, close but not exactly. IOW I believe the universe itself to have, or be based on some overriding intelligence.

Who knows? Some of that or even all of that could be true. Best position to have is to say you aren't sure but this is what you believe and to keep on looking.

Based on your "beliefs", what reason would anyone have to believe as you do? Does it matter if you believe in god or do you just have to be a good person?

Ask a million people these questions and you will never get exactly the same answer(s). Why? Because god is all in the mind.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

Define "good."

Sin is real. Arguing that because some of the stories are allegories, sin is fiction.. that's silly. Jesus lived,... he's not an allegory.

If I say god is the universe and you say god is all in my mind... are you saying you don't exist, except in my mind?

Some of the stories? Yesterday I read that the Jonah story is not an allegory. Jesus said so is what they said. So if you believe that story, of course you believe Jesus' mom was a virgin and he was god.

Jesus wasn't an allegory. He was just a man.

If you say god is the universe, I would say you are wrong, or you are trying to redefine the term god.

And what you are saying is that thousands of years ago god regularly visited and talked to us in the most remote parts of the world and then up and disappeared.

So you can't define good. But you think you are the person who gets to define god?

There is no god or at least humans have never seen any solid concrete proof a god exists. He never visited Moses, Noah, Adam & Eve or came to visit us in Jesus' body after he knocked up Mary.

Why would he need to go through the hassle of being a baby? Just appear as an adult Messiah.

So in your mind, you are god. Got it.