Why Do Atheists Insist That Atheism Is Not A Religion?

[RKMBrown]

You continue with the same logical fallacy, arguing from the specific to the general. Sure, some atheists might maintain an "active belief that there is no god", but the only quality that all atheists share is that they aren't theists. In general, atheism isn't a "belief structure" - its simply a rejection of theism. If you want to point to specific, organized communities of atheists and show how they are effectively a religion, then your argument might have merit. But to claim that the rejection of theism, in and of itself, represents a religion isn't valid.

How is it not valid. There are Atheists groups out there that try to recruit members, convince others of their belief structure, and advocate to the courts to impose their belief structure on others. Its all the things atheists on this boards claim people of faith do, and yet, somehow Atheism is not a Religion in the sense of a belief structure?

That's the logical fallacy I linked to previously. Just because some atheists create a religion based on their beliefs, it doesn't mean that atheism itself is a religion. You really don't see why that's invalid logic?

There are many atheist camps... those that believe they are god, and those that really just don't give a poo about religious dogma.

Those who "don't give a poo about religious dogma" are agnostics.

Agnosticism is a cop out just like being an independent in politics is a cop out. You either lean one way or the other.

But I do like what I see:

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of God, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable. An agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of God, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Theists are the only ones who claim to KNOW.

agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist

On your politics point... BULLSHIT, there are a thousand issues leaning one direction one half those issues does not mean you must lean the same way on all the rest.

Same goes for religion. Many ex-catholics become agnostic or atheists in revolt against some of the catholic BS they had to endure as a child.

 

[sealybobo]

How is it not valid. There are Atheists groups out there that try to recruit members, convince others of their belief structure, and advocate to the courts to impose their belief structure on others. Its all the things atheists on this boards claim people of faith do, and yet, somehow Atheism is not a Religion in the sense of a belief structure?

That's the logical fallacy I linked to previously. Just because some atheists create a religion based on their beliefs, it doesn't mean that atheism itself is a religion. You really don't see why that's invalid logic?

There are many atheist camps... those that believe they are god, and those that really just don't give a poo about religious dogma.

Those who "don't give a poo about religious dogma" are agnostics.

Agnosticism is a cop out just like being an independent in politics is a cop out. You either lean one way or the other.

But I do like what I see:

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of God, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable. An agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of God, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Theists are the only ones who claim to KNOW.

agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist

On your politics point... BULLSHIT, there are a thousand issues leaning one direction one half those issues does not mean you must lean the same way on all the rest.

Same goes for religion. Many ex-catholics become agnostic or atheists in revolt against some of the catholic BS they had to endure as a child.

Did the Catholic BS make them realize there is no god or do they still believe in god and they just gave up on the Catholic church?

 

[RKMBrown]

That's the logical fallacy I linked to previously. Just because some atheists create a religion based on their beliefs, it doesn't mean that atheism itself is a religion. You really don't see why that's invalid logic?

There are many atheist camps... those that believe they are god, and those that really just don't give a poo about religious dogma.

Those who "don't give a poo about religious dogma" are agnostics.

Agnosticism is a cop out just like being an independent in politics is a cop out. You either lean one way or the other.

But I do like what I see:

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of God, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable. An agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of God, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Theists are the only ones who claim to KNOW.

agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist

On your politics point... BULLSHIT, there are a thousand issues leaning one direction one half those issues does not mean you must lean the same way on all the rest.

Same goes for religion. Many ex-catholics become agnostic or atheists in revolt against some of the catholic BS they had to endure as a child.

Did the Catholic BS make them realize there is no god or do they still believe in god and they just gave up on the Catholic church?

Most of the ones I've talked to take the tact that the church is not one to make that decision for them.

 

[sealybobo]

There are many atheist camps... those that believe they are god, and those that really just don't give a poo about religious dogma.

Those who "don't give a poo about religious dogma" are agnostics.

Agnosticism is a cop out just like being an independent in politics is a cop out. You either lean one way or the other.

But I do like what I see:

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of God, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable. An agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of God, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Theists are the only ones who claim to KNOW.

agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist

On your politics point... BULLSHIT, there are a thousand issues leaning one direction one half those issues does not mean you must lean the same way on all the rest.

Same goes for religion. Many ex-catholics become agnostic or atheists in revolt against some of the catholic BS they had to endure as a child.

Did the Catholic BS make them realize there is no god or do they still believe in god and they just gave up on the Catholic church?

Most of the ones I've talked to take the tact that the church is not one to make that decision for them.

So they didn't actually become agnostic or atheist about god, they just left the Catholic church?

 

[sealybobo]

There are many atheist camps... those that believe they are god, and those that really just don't give a poo about religious dogma.

Those who "don't give a poo about religious dogma" are agnostics.

Agnosticism is a cop out just like being an independent in politics is a cop out. You either lean one way or the other.

But I do like what I see:

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of God, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable. An agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of God, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Theists are the only ones who claim to KNOW.

agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist

On your politics point... BULLSHIT, there are a thousand issues leaning one direction one half those issues does not mean you must lean the same way on all the rest.

Same goes for religion. Many ex-catholics become agnostic or atheists in revolt against some of the catholic BS they had to endure as a child.

Did the Catholic BS make them realize there is no god or do they still believe in god and they just gave up on the Catholic church?

Most of the ones I've talked to take the tact that the church is not one to make that decision for them.

I remember watching shows as a kid where the kid lost their mom when they were young and the kid was mad at god. That's not atheism or agnosticism. That's a theist being mad at their god. And of course by the end of the 1 hour show they were friends with god again.

 

[asaratis]

I'm sure there are multiple end-games from atheist groups. But you gotta assume if an atheist is legally activistic about it, they long to have religions removed from protected status eventually. Otherwise why not just be content in your disbelief and let other be content in their beliefs?

I'm areligious. I'm against all religions, but not deities. I'll believe in a deity when I shake it's hand. But religions are from people, not deities. As such, and devoid of scientific support for their assertions I'm against them. But I'm content to remain low-stress and not meddle in other people's delusions. That's a fulltime job and not one I'm likely to get paid for.

You ask why so I'll try to answer best I can. For one reason, I truly don't think this lie is good for people. I know religions do a lot of good but they also do a lot of bad, and you may agree or disagree with that, but it is my opinion and why I care. I think religion is unnecessary and holds people back mentally/scientifically. I watch those religious shows, see how religion is used to control people, see how slave owners and Pharoahs and Kings used it to control the masses, I talk to hypocrite theists who confirm religion doesn't necessary work, notice that there are 999 other religions all claiming they are the truth and the other ones are not, etc. So these are reasons why I speak up.

2. A lie is a lie no matter how good it makes people feel.

3. I don't like being told I'm going to hell.

4. Did you see the poll that the least electable person was the atheist? A pot smoking phylanderer has a better chance. I'm here to change perception. I remember being a theist. I thought atheist were the devil. Now I know better and I think others should too.

5. It is unnecessary and not even all that effective. Lots of religious assholes and look how religion makes gays feel guilty about themselves.

Anyways, that's my feelings, and I don't necessarily care if they get the protected status. They should have to prove their charitable works though. Do churches have to give so much to charity? They should. Otherwise it leaves the door open to all the con artists.

I watch that guy on tv ask people to send in $70 x 10 months and a miracle will happen. I wonder how much of that goes to charity and they don't pay taxes?

And if there is a god and he actually cares about you he would reward your intelligence.

I hear you on USMB all the time stating your opinion. Why do you do it? Aren't you meddling in other people's delusions just by posting the things you write? I agree with the things you write, I'm just saying. Don't act like you don't get some satisfaction explaining to people why you think they are wrong. Why do you do it?

You're coming close now. Thank you.

To keep from using a shitload of quote commands, the bold text below is copied from your post. My replies are in lower case.


You ask why so I'll try to answer best I can. For one reason, I truly don't think this lie is good for people. I know religions do a lot of good but they also do a lot of bad, and you may agree or disagree with that, but it is my opinion and why I care. I think religion is unnecessary and holds people back mentally/scientifically. I watch those religious shows, see how religion is used to control people, see how slave owners and Pharoahs and Kings used it to control the masses, I talk to hypocrite theists who confirm religion doesn't necessary work, notice that there are 999 other religions all claiming they are the truth and the other ones are not, etc. So these are reasons why I speak up.
Okay. I agree with you here. Many evangelical preachers and televangelists are off their rockers. Benny Hinn is my prime example of ostentatious bullshit. The "prayer clothes", the staged "healings", the limos, the diamond studded Rolex watches, the golden cathedrals, the silk suits and such are all bullshit.



2. A lie is a lie no matter how good it makes people feel.
Again, I agree.

3. I don't like being told I'm going to hell.
I'm almost certain that the dogma of an Atheist religion would not include the existence of hell or any afterlife whatsoever. If you don't believe in a deity, how can you believe in a hell or a heaven? Not to worry. An Atheist Minister (and they do exist) would not say that you're going to hell.

4. Did you see the poll that the least electable person was the atheist? A pot smoking phylanderer has a better chance. I'm here to change perception. I remember being a theist. I thought atheist were the devil. Now I know better and I think others should too.
I haven't seen the poll. Be patient though. We've already elected a black Muslim sympathizer if not a black Muslim.

Perhaps you were misled by a radical, fire and brimstone Baptist preacher. I know better than that myself.

I grew up a Methodist, married a gem of a Baptist girl, saw no sense in our belonging to separate denominations and became a Baptist. After several years of attending church, I was ordained a Baptist deacon, got involved in the Evangelism Explosion wherein we'd go out in pairs and try to convince no-churchgoers to join our church. The instructions were to always ask the questions to the family member that was considered more likely to say "yes". I questioned the leader of the group by asking if this was simply a ploy to manipulate the minds of the other members. He answered affirmatively. I quit the program. I later divorced my wife and became the black sheep of a large Baptist clan of what you might call "bible thumpers". I was also the black sheep of the local church...one which had its fair share of ostentatious trappings. I'm still a Christian but I do not try to push my religious beliefs on others.

5. It is unnecessary and not even all that effective. Lots of religious assholes and look how religion makes gays feel guilty about themselves.
By the same token, gays are lovingly accepted in many churches. That is likely so in all of the existing Atheist churches.

Anyways, that's my feelings, and I don't necessarily care if they get the protected status. They should have to prove their charitable works though. Do churches have to give so much to charity? They should. Otherwise it leaves the door open to all the con artists.
True. There have been all too many corrupt church leaders piling up cash and possessions for themselves, turning their non-profit church into their own personal cash cow. I think churches should be required to give all but the costs of real estate, maintenance thereof and negotiated staff salaries to charities, either philanthropic or medical research charities or directly to the homeless and needy people living around their own community.

I watch that guy on tv ask people to send in $70 x 10 months and a miracle will happen. I wonder how much of that goes to charity and they don't pay taxes?
Again I concur. Asking people to donate any particular amount is ludicrous. There's a parable about that in the NT, I think...where a poor beggar gave all she had...or something like that. I've also heard of some preachers that will say to a member of their congregation something like "I had a revelation from God last night and He said you should donate $500.00." This is nothing more than extortion.

One of the existing Atheist churches has a donation block on their website complete with the little credit card symbols for Visa, Mastercard and Amex. They say that you are welcome to donate but they don't expect you to.

And if there is a god and he actually cares about you he would reward your intelligence.
Not sure about that. I've heard that God takes care of fools and babies. I interpret that to mean that NOBODY is going to hell when this shit is over.

I hear you on USMB all the time stating your opinion. Why do you do it? Aren't you meddling in other people's delusions just by posting the things you write? I agree with the things you write, I'm just saying. Don't act like you don't get some satisfaction explaining to people why you think they are wrong. Why do you do it?
I do post a lot of opinion on USMB. Some of what I post is pure and simply factual. A lot of it is conjecture and speculation. Some of that is to argue against opposing political views. Some of it is to express my considered opinion regarding something that might be unsubstantiated by the poster to whom I reply.

1. I don't have to believe in hell to be annoyed by people who tell me I'm going to hell. Funny I was thinking about this on the way in to work today just how heavily religion relies on guilt. You don't think I sometimes feel guilty or question myself on this god thing? Then I quickly rationalize any issue I have and go about being an atheist.

I even question my position on whether or not religion, regardless of it is true or not, if it is good or bad overall. I know religions do a lot of good too. But they also do a lot of bad and does it even matter? If it is not true, its time for the human race to evolve beyond believing in fairy tales. You can't be that smart of a species if you are so superstitious that you believe the unbelievable, or because you can't imagine any other way. Best to admit you don't know and keep on looking. Plus, I know I'm good even though I don't believe in god so I don't believe it is necessary. If it makes you feel good I'm happy for you.

But I suspect you guys aren't on USMB because you are 100% sure. You can't be. You can't read all our replies and say you are 100% sure.

PS. From now on I think all theists should have to say what their denomination is when they reply. I need to know why they believe in god. Because if they believe the moses, noah, adam & eve stories, then they are just crazy. Or if you are a christian who doesn't take those stories literally, do you also not take the virgin birth, miracle, rose from the dead stories literally either? This is important.

Because a lot of theists on USMB are generic god believers. Or some of them are jews or mormons or muslims. I need to know what crazy I'm dealing with otherwise you guys think you caught us in a mistake when it is hard to keep your fairy tales straight. Last night I saw on a religious game show that Noah lived 350 years after the arc? Is that true?

Okay.


1. I don't have to believe in hell to be annoyed by people who tell me I'm going to hell. Funny I was thinking about this on the way in to work today just how heavily religion relies on guilt. You don't think I sometimes feel guilty or question myself on this god thing? Then I quickly rationalize any issue I have and go about being an atheist.
I don't believe in Hell (as described in the Bible and by many preachers) either. Hell is where we are now.

I even question my position on whether or not religion, regardless of it is true or not, if it is good or bad overall. I know religions do a lot of good too. But they also do a lot of bad and does it even matter? If it is not true, its time for the human race to evolve beyond believing in fairy tales. You can't be that smart of a species if you are so superstitious that you believe the unbelievable, or because you can't imagine any other way. Best to admit you don't know and keep on looking. Plus, I know I'm good even though I don't believe in god so I don't believe it is necessary. If it makes you feel good I'm happy for you.
I concur. That means we both agree that there is no sense in attacking religions just because one might be an atheist and want to express disdain for religion. No matter what a person believes, if it makes them happy and doesn't step on the beliefs of others, I'm happy for them. It's when their religion demands something of me that I take offense....especially if they demand my death for not following their doctrine. That is why I oppose the idea the of hell in the afterlife.

But I suspect you guys aren't on USMB because you are 100% sure. You can't be. You can't read all our replies and say you are 100% sure.
There are many things that I am not 100% sure of...they are based on belief, just as is the Atheist's contention that no deity exists.

PS. From now on I think all theists should have to say what their denomination is when they reply. I need to know why they believe in god. Because if they believe the moses, noah, adam & eve stories, then they are just crazy. Or if you are a christian who doesn't take those stories literally, do you also not take the virgin birth, miracle, rose from the dead stories literally either? This is important.
As I have stated elsewhere, I don't take the Bible literally. It is full of allegory and parables. It may have been inspired by God as they say, but the authors did not understand evolution or geological time so the stories were presented in terms the people of the day could understand. The 6-day creation is obviously preposterous, as is Adam and Eve being only two people. I think God created everything but we will never fully understand how it was done.

Because a lot of theists on USMB are generic god believers. Or some of them are jews or mormons or muslims. I need to know what crazy I'm dealing with otherwise you guys think you caught us in a mistake when it is hard to keep your fairy tales straight. Last night I saw on a religious game show that Noah lived 350 years after the arc? Is that true?
Posters telling you their denominations would only cause you to generalize and conclude that they hold dear to all the teachings of whatever group they claim to be in. I am a Christian. That does not mean I believe what all the puffed-up evangelicals proclaim or every word printed in the Bible, or that God will punish me for not believing everything in it.

If you don't believe Mary was a virgin and god knocked her up and jesus was god and did miracles and rose from the dead then you are not a christian my friend.

I use to call myself a Christian and believed just as you do. It wasn't long before I realized I wasn't a christian but still believed in god and then it wasn't long before I realized there is no god.

Or if there is, he cares about you and I as much as you or I care about a fly on the back of a rhino's back in Africa. You have to realize if the stories are made up, then god has never visited anyone or told anyone anything. We just came up with the concept 400,000 years ago when we were very scared primitive beings. Sentient but uncivilized and wild imaginations plus a healthy fear of the unknown. It's true.

And what if I believe religion is used to control/manipulate the masses? They use god to divide the middle class. They use god to con poor and middle class people into voting against themselves financially just like they use other wedge issues like guns, gays and racism.

My goal is for people to be too smart to be religious. I hope one day people are either spiritual or not spiritual. If you belong to a religion basically you belong to a lie. Jesus didn't rise from the dead and Noah didn't live to be 350 years old.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

Believe what you will...about me, God or anything else in existence.

I wouldn't phrase it the way you did, but I do believe (though I have absolutely no idea how it happened) that Mary was the earthy mother of Jesus, that Jesus was God on earth, that He was crucified, entombed, rose from the dead and ascended. Whether the other biblical stories are absolutely factual is of no concern to me. Something out of the ordinary, or supernatural happened some 2000 + years ago...significant enough to cause mankind to establish a reference point for recording time. BC meant Before Christ until recently objected to by Atheists who had it changed to BCE Before Common Era.

 

[RKMBrown]

Those who "don't give a poo about religious dogma" are agnostics.

Agnosticism is a cop out just like being an independent in politics is a cop out. You either lean one way or the other.

But I do like what I see:

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of God, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable. An agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of God, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Theists are the only ones who claim to KNOW.

agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist

On your politics point... BULLSHIT, there are a thousand issues leaning one direction one half those issues does not mean you must lean the same way on all the rest.

Same goes for religion. Many ex-catholics become agnostic or atheists in revolt against some of the catholic BS they had to endure as a child.

Did the Catholic BS make them realize there is no god or do they still believe in god and they just gave up on the Catholic church?

Most of the ones I've talked to take the tact that the church is not one to make that decision for them.

So they didn't actually become agnostic or atheist about god, they just left the Catholic church?

I see a large percentage of atheists and agnostics that are traveling between what they do or don't believe.

 

[sealybobo]

Agnosticism is a cop out just like being an independent in politics is a cop out. You either lean one way or the other.

But I do like what I see:

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of God, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable. An agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of God, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Theists are the only ones who claim to KNOW.

agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist

On your politics point... BULLSHIT, there are a thousand issues leaning one direction one half those issues does not mean you must lean the same way on all the rest.

Same goes for religion. Many ex-catholics become agnostic or atheists in revolt against some of the catholic BS they had to endure as a child.

Did the Catholic BS make them realize there is no god or do they still believe in god and they just gave up on the Catholic church?

Most of the ones I've talked to take the tact that the church is not one to make that decision for them.

So they didn't actually become agnostic or atheist about god, they just left the Catholic church?

I see a large percentage of atheists and agnostics that are traveling between what they do or don't believe.

That's because theists don't seem to understand that atheism does not claim that we know for certain that a creator or god exists. And there are all kinds of atheists. I tend to be all over the place on this. I'm a strong atheist, even though I admit you can not know for certain that a god doesn't exist, but I do completely reject all organized religions. So I don't believe anybody who says they talked to god. But I wasn't there 2000 years ago so how can I say 100% that I know for sure?

The most rational position to have is agnostic atheist.

there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere

And I see guys like boss who don't belong to any organized religions are called agnostic theism.

Agnostic atheism
The view of those who do not believe in the existence of any deity, but do not claim to know if a deity does or does not exist.
Agnostic theism
The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence

 

[RKMBrown]

On your politics point... BULLSHIT, there are a thousand issues leaning one direction one half those issues does not mean you must lean the same way on all the rest.

Same goes for religion. Many ex-catholics become agnostic or atheists in revolt against some of the catholic BS they had to endure as a child.

Did the Catholic BS make them realize there is no god or do they still believe in god and they just gave up on the Catholic church?

Most of the ones I've talked to take the tact that the church is not one to make that decision for them.

So they didn't actually become agnostic or atheist about god, they just left the Catholic church?

I see a large percentage of atheists and agnostics that are traveling between what they do or don't believe.

That's because theists don't seem to understand that atheism does not claim that we know for certain that a creator or god exists. And there are all kinds of atheists. I tend to be all over the place on this. I'm a strong atheist, even though I admit you can not know for certain that a god doesn't exist, but I do completely reject all organized religions. So I don't believe anybody who says they talked to god. But I wasn't there 2000 years ago so how can I say 100% that I know for sure?

The most rational position to have is agnostic atheist.

there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere

And I see guys like boss who don't belong to any organized religions are called agnostic theism.

Agnostic atheism
The view of those who do not believe in the existence of any deity, but do not claim to know if a deity does or does not exist.
Agnostic theism
The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence

I believe in god, but not necessarily as a deity that demands to be worshiped... I believe in a god that is everywhere. For me god is life. I believe the fabric of the universe itself is alive, and all that makes energy what it is and isn't is based on a grand architecture. God to me is the architect/architecture if you will but not as supreme being that demands tribute. I believe in jesus, but not necessarily in the exact way he is taught by some religions, close but not exactly. IOW I believe the universe itself to have, or be based on some overriding intelligence.

 

[sealybobo]

Did the Catholic BS make them realize there is no god or do they still believe in god and they just gave up on the Catholic church?

Most of the ones I've talked to take the tact that the church is not one to make that decision for them.

So they didn't actually become agnostic or atheist about god, they just left the Catholic church?

I see a large percentage of atheists and agnostics that are traveling between what they do or don't believe.

That's because theists don't seem to understand that atheism does not claim that we know for certain that a creator or god exists. And there are all kinds of atheists. I tend to be all over the place on this. I'm a strong atheist, even though I admit you can not know for certain that a god doesn't exist, but I do completely reject all organized religions. So I don't believe anybody who says they talked to god. But I wasn't there 2000 years ago so how can I say 100% that I know for sure?

The most rational position to have is agnostic atheist.

there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere

And I see guys like boss who don't belong to any organized religions are called agnostic theism.

Agnostic atheism
The view of those who do not believe in the existence of any deity, but do not claim to know if a deity does or does not exist.
Agnostic theism
The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence

I believe in god, but not necessarily as a deity that demands to be worshiped... I believe in a god that is everywhere. For me god is life. I believe the fabric of the universe itself is alive, and all that makes energy what it is and isn't is based on a grand architecture. God to me is the architect/architecture if you will but not as supreme being that demands tribute. I believe in jesus, but not necessarily in the exact way he is taught by some religions, close but not exactly. IOW I believe the universe itself to have, or be based on some overriding intelligence.

Who knows? Some of that or even all of that could be true. Best position to have is to say you aren't sure but this is what you believe and to keep on looking.

Based on your "beliefs", what reason would anyone have to believe as you do? Does it matter if you believe in god or do you just have to be a good person?

Ask a million people these questions and you will never get exactly the same answer(s). Why? Because god is all in the mind.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Because it's not you jackalope it's the absence of religion. It is stuff like this that made me take a hiatus from this site.

An active belief that there is no deity is a religious belief. Agnosticism, not caring if there is a deity or not is closer to not being a religion than atheism.

First of all, "an active belief that there is no deity" isn't what makes one an atheist. Not being a theist is what makes one an atheist. And agnosticism isn't "not caring" or even "not sure" - it's the observation that the existence of gods isn't a provable proposition; that it's inherent in the nature of the concept that it's unprovable either way. You can be an agnostic and a true believer at the same time, as well as an agnostic and an atheist at the same time.

As far as what is gained or lost in accepting these labels: not much. It's usually only an issue in the context of particular political agendas. The "Intelligent Design" movement, for example, seeks to have atheism classified as a religion in their efforts to "level the playing field" with theistic origin accounts. It's sort of a tortured logic, but my understanding of their strategy is to claim that non-theistic origins accounts (e.g. evolution) are just as "religious" as ID is, and should be taught side by side with religious myths in our schools. We all stand to lose a great deal when faced with such idiocy.

Considering my definitions are far simpler and shorter, I tend to think I am spot on in my observation. When you have to elaborate this much to make a point, its usually to stretch a point, not to make it.

Just because an explanation isn't simple or obviously intuitive doesn't mean it is not correct. That is the statement of a simpleton too lazy to search for a true understanding of anything. Someone content with simple answers regardless of whether or not they have any truth to them.

 

[asaratis]

Most of the ones I've talked to take the tact that the church is not one to make that decision for them.

So they didn't actually become agnostic or atheist about god, they just left the Catholic church?

I see a large percentage of atheists and agnostics that are traveling between what they do or don't believe.

That's because theists don't seem to understand that atheism does not claim that we know for certain that a creator or god exists. And there are all kinds of atheists. I tend to be all over the place on this. I'm a strong atheist, even though I admit you can not know for certain that a god doesn't exist, but I do completely reject all organized religions. So I don't believe anybody who says they talked to god. But I wasn't there 2000 years ago so how can I say 100% that I know for sure?

The most rational position to have is agnostic atheist.

there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere

And I see guys like boss who don't belong to any organized religions are called agnostic theism.

Agnostic atheism
The view of those who do not believe in the existence of any deity, but do not claim to know if a deity does or does not exist.
Agnostic theism
The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence

I believe in god, but not necessarily as a deity that demands to be worshiped... I believe in a god that is everywhere. For me god is life. I believe the fabric of the universe itself is alive, and all that makes energy what it is and isn't is based on a grand architecture. God to me is the architect/architecture if you will but not as supreme being that demands tribute. I believe in jesus, but not necessarily in the exact way he is taught by some religions, close but not exactly. IOW I believe the universe itself to have, or be based on some overriding intelligence.

Who knows? Some of that or even all of that could be true. Best position to have is to say you aren't sure but this is what you believe and to keep on looking.

Based on your "beliefs", what reason would anyone have to believe as you do? Does it matter if you believe in god or do you just have to be a good person?

Ask a million people these questions and you will never get exactly the same answer(s). Why? Because god is all in the mind.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

So you worship Ken Ham? Is ee that you end posts with his silly quote. Not all of Genesis is allegory.

 

[martybegan]

Because it's not you jackalope it's the absence of religion. It is stuff like this that made me take a hiatus from this site.

An active belief that there is no deity is a religious belief. Agnosticism, not caring if there is a deity or not is closer to not being a religion than atheism.

First of all, "an active belief that there is no deity" isn't what makes one an atheist. Not being a theist is what makes one an atheist. And agnosticism isn't "not caring" or even "not sure" - it's the observation that the existence of gods isn't a provable proposition; that it's inherent in the nature of the concept that it's unprovable either way. You can be an agnostic and a true believer at the same time, as well as an agnostic and an atheist at the same time.

As far as what is gained or lost in accepting these labels: not much. It's usually only an issue in the context of particular political agendas. The "Intelligent Design" movement, for example, seeks to have atheism classified as a religion in their efforts to "level the playing field" with theistic origin accounts. It's sort of a tortured logic, but my understanding of their strategy is to claim that non-theistic origins accounts (e.g. evolution) are just as "religious" as ID is, and should be taught side by side with religious myths in our schools. We all stand to lose a great deal when faced with such idiocy.

Considering my definitions are far simpler and shorter, I tend to think I am spot on in my observation. When you have to elaborate this much to make a point, its usually to stretch a point, not to make it.

Just because an explanation isn't simple or obviously intuitive doesn't mean it is not correct. That is the statement of a simpleton too lazy to search for a true understanding of anything. Someone content with simple answers regardless of whether or not they have any truth to them.

So i question something you hold dear, and you get all butthurt about it. Figures.

 

[MaxGrit]

Putting aside the question of whether it is or is not a religion, what benefits do Atheists expect to gain by having it declared not to be a religion?

Additionally, what harm comes to Atheists in having it declared to be a religion?

Please do not argue here whether or not Atheism is a religion.

There are a number of reasons that atheists don't want atheism to be considered a religion. The first is that there is no rational argument for atheism, so that gets them off the hook for having to substantiate there beliefs.

Implicit in their belief that atheism is not a religion is that it is a self evident belief system. I realize that this sounds like muddled thinking to most rational people but listen to the way they talk about atheism and you'll discover that what I'm saying is true. They don't believe they need to justify their beliefs. This is how people get duped into adopting atheism in the first place. The reason they hold on is that they don't critically analyze why they believe, thay have actually told themselves that they don't believe! It's the greatest con game going.

They also avoid considering atheism a religion so they can teach it in schools. You can't teach ID in schools because it's religious but evolution can be taught as if it were a religion (Evolution can't be questioned too deeply on a scientific basis alone for example).

The reason atheists get so angry when their beliefs are questioned is because they don't even know why they believe what they believe. This is the price they pay when thoughts are placed in their heads without being filtered through a critical thought process.

Yep. Atheists believe in the religion of Atheism with blind faith.

 

[RKMBrown]

Most of the ones I've talked to take the tact that the church is not one to make that decision for them.

So they didn't actually become agnostic or atheist about god, they just left the Catholic church?

I see a large percentage of atheists and agnostics that are traveling between what they do or don't believe.

That's because theists don't seem to understand that atheism does not claim that we know for certain that a creator or god exists. And there are all kinds of atheists. I tend to be all over the place on this. I'm a strong atheist, even though I admit you can not know for certain that a god doesn't exist, but I do completely reject all organized religions. So I don't believe anybody who says they talked to god. But I wasn't there 2000 years ago so how can I say 100% that I know for sure?

The most rational position to have is agnostic atheist.

there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere

And I see guys like boss who don't belong to any organized religions are called agnostic theism.

Agnostic atheism
The view of those who do not believe in the existence of any deity, but do not claim to know if a deity does or does not exist.
Agnostic theism
The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence

I believe in god, but not necessarily as a deity that demands to be worshiped... I believe in a god that is everywhere. For me god is life. I believe the fabric of the universe itself is alive, and all that makes energy what it is and isn't is based on a grand architecture. God to me is the architect/architecture if you will but not as supreme being that demands tribute. I believe in jesus, but not necessarily in the exact way he is taught by some religions, close but not exactly. IOW I believe the universe itself to have, or be based on some overriding intelligence.

Who knows? Some of that or even all of that could be true. Best position to have is to say you aren't sure but this is what you believe and to keep on looking.

Based on your "beliefs", what reason would anyone have to believe as you do? Does it matter if you believe in god or do you just have to be a good person?

Ask a million people these questions and you will never get exactly the same answer(s). Why? Because god is all in the mind.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

Define "good."

Sin is real. Arguing that because some of the stories are allegories, sin is fiction.. that's silly. Jesus lived,... he's not an allegory.

If I say god is the universe and you say god is all in my mind... are you saying you don't exist, except in my mind?

 

[sealybobo]

So they didn't actually become agnostic or atheist about god, they just left the Catholic church?

I see a large percentage of atheists and agnostics that are traveling between what they do or don't believe.

That's because theists don't seem to understand that atheism does not claim that we know for certain that a creator or god exists. And there are all kinds of atheists. I tend to be all over the place on this. I'm a strong atheist, even though I admit you can not know for certain that a god doesn't exist, but I do completely reject all organized religions. So I don't believe anybody who says they talked to god. But I wasn't there 2000 years ago so how can I say 100% that I know for sure?

The most rational position to have is agnostic atheist.

there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere

And I see guys like boss who don't belong to any organized religions are called agnostic theism.

Agnostic atheism
The view of those who do not believe in the existence of any deity, but do not claim to know if a deity does or does not exist.
Agnostic theism
The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence

I believe in god, but not necessarily as a deity that demands to be worshiped... I believe in a god that is everywhere. For me god is life. I believe the fabric of the universe itself is alive, and all that makes energy what it is and isn't is based on a grand architecture. God to me is the architect/architecture if you will but not as supreme being that demands tribute. I believe in jesus, but not necessarily in the exact way he is taught by some religions, close but not exactly. IOW I believe the universe itself to have, or be based on some overriding intelligence.

Who knows? Some of that or even all of that could be true. Best position to have is to say you aren't sure but this is what you believe and to keep on looking.

Based on your "beliefs", what reason would anyone have to believe as you do? Does it matter if you believe in god or do you just have to be a good person?

Ask a million people these questions and you will never get exactly the same answer(s). Why? Because god is all in the mind.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

Define "good."

Sin is real. Arguing that because some of the stories are allegories, sin is fiction.. that's silly. Jesus lived,... he's not an allegory.

If I say god is the universe and you say god is all in my mind... are you saying you don't exist, except in my mind?

Some of the stories? Yesterday I read that the Jonah story is not an allegory. Jesus said so is what they said. So if you believe that story, of course you believe Jesus' mom was a virgin and he was god.

Jesus wasn't an allegory. He was just a man.

If you say god is the universe, I would say you are wrong, or you are trying to redefine the term god.

And what you are saying is that thousands of years ago god regularly visited and talked to us in the most remote parts of the world and then up and disappeared.

 

[sealybobo]

Putting aside the question of whether it is or is not a religion, what benefits do Atheists expect to gain by having it declared not to be a religion?

Additionally, what harm comes to Atheists in having it declared to be a religion?

Please do not argue here whether or not Atheism is a religion.

There are a number of reasons that atheists don't want atheism to be considered a religion. The first is that there is no rational argument for atheism, so that gets them off the hook for having to substantiate there beliefs.

Implicit in their belief that atheism is not a religion is that it is a self evident belief system. I realize that this sounds like muddled thinking to most rational people but listen to the way they talk about atheism and you'll discover that what I'm saying is true. They don't believe they need to justify their beliefs. This is how people get duped into adopting atheism in the first place. The reason they hold on is that they don't critically analyze why they believe, thay have actually told themselves that they don't believe! It's the greatest con game going.

They also avoid considering atheism a religion so they can teach it in schools. You can't teach ID in schools because it's religious but evolution can be taught as if it were a religion (Evolution can't be questioned too deeply on a scientific basis alone for example).

The reason atheists get so angry when their beliefs are questioned is because they don't even know why they believe what they believe. This is the price they pay when thoughts are placed in their heads without being filtered through a critical thought process.

Yep. Atheists believe in the religion of Atheism with blind faith.

Except we aren't accepting impossible stories like a guy living in a whale for 3 days or Noah living to be 350 years old, talking snakes or virgin births.

If you are accepting those stories with your eyes open, what a fool you must be. The rich and powerful love it that the masses are this stupid. Easily manipulated sheep.

 

[RKMBrown]

I see a large percentage of atheists and agnostics that are traveling between what they do or don't believe.

That's because theists don't seem to understand that atheism does not claim that we know for certain that a creator or god exists. And there are all kinds of atheists. I tend to be all over the place on this. I'm a strong atheist, even though I admit you can not know for certain that a god doesn't exist, but I do completely reject all organized religions. So I don't believe anybody who says they talked to god. But I wasn't there 2000 years ago so how can I say 100% that I know for sure?

The most rational position to have is agnostic atheist.

there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere

And I see guys like boss who don't belong to any organized religions are called agnostic theism.

Agnostic atheism
The view of those who do not believe in the existence of any deity, but do not claim to know if a deity does or does not exist.
Agnostic theism
The view of those who do not claim to know of the existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence

I believe in god, but not necessarily as a deity that demands to be worshiped... I believe in a god that is everywhere. For me god is life. I believe the fabric of the universe itself is alive, and all that makes energy what it is and isn't is based on a grand architecture. God to me is the architect/architecture if you will but not as supreme being that demands tribute. I believe in jesus, but not necessarily in the exact way he is taught by some religions, close but not exactly. IOW I believe the universe itself to have, or be based on some overriding intelligence.

Who knows? Some of that or even all of that could be true. Best position to have is to say you aren't sure but this is what you believe and to keep on looking.

Based on your "beliefs", what reason would anyone have to believe as you do? Does it matter if you believe in god or do you just have to be a good person?

Ask a million people these questions and you will never get exactly the same answer(s). Why? Because god is all in the mind.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

Define "good."

Sin is real. Arguing that because some of the stories are allegories, sin is fiction.. that's silly. Jesus lived,... he's not an allegory.

If I say god is the universe and you say god is all in my mind... are you saying you don't exist, except in my mind?

Some of the stories? Yesterday I read that the Jonah story is not an allegory. Jesus said so is what they said. So if you believe that story, of course you believe Jesus' mom was a virgin and he was god.

Jesus wasn't an allegory. He was just a man.

If you say god is the universe, I would say you are wrong, or you are trying to redefine the term god.

And what you are saying is that thousands of years ago god regularly visited and talked to us in the most remote parts of the world and then up and disappeared.

So you can't define good. But you think you are the person who gets to define god?

 

[sealybobo]

You ask why so I'll try to answer best I can. For one reason, I truly don't think this lie is good for people. I know religions do a lot of good but they also do a lot of bad, and you may agree or disagree with that, but it is my opinion and why I care. I think religion is unnecessary and holds people back mentally/scientifically. I watch those religious shows, see how religion is used to control people, see how slave owners and Pharoahs and Kings used it to control the masses, I talk to hypocrite theists who confirm religion doesn't necessary work, notice that there are 999 other religions all claiming they are the truth and the other ones are not, etc. So these are reasons why I speak up.

2. A lie is a lie no matter how good it makes people feel.

3. I don't like being told I'm going to hell.

4. Did you see the poll that the least electable person was the atheist? A pot smoking phylanderer has a better chance. I'm here to change perception. I remember being a theist. I thought atheist were the devil. Now I know better and I think others should too.

5. It is unnecessary and not even all that effective. Lots of religious assholes and look how religion makes gays feel guilty about themselves.

Anyways, that's my feelings, and I don't necessarily care if they get the protected status. They should have to prove their charitable works though. Do churches have to give so much to charity? They should. Otherwise it leaves the door open to all the con artists.

I watch that guy on tv ask people to send in $70 x 10 months and a miracle will happen. I wonder how much of that goes to charity and they don't pay taxes?

And if there is a god and he actually cares about you he would reward your intelligence.

I hear you on USMB all the time stating your opinion. Why do you do it? Aren't you meddling in other people's delusions just by posting the things you write? I agree with the things you write, I'm just saying. Don't act like you don't get some satisfaction explaining to people why you think they are wrong. Why do you do it?

You're coming close now. Thank you.

To keep from using a shitload of quote commands, the bold text below is copied from your post. My replies are in lower case.


You ask why so I'll try to answer best I can. For one reason, I truly don't think this lie is good for people. I know religions do a lot of good but they also do a lot of bad, and you may agree or disagree with that, but it is my opinion and why I care. I think religion is unnecessary and holds people back mentally/scientifically. I watch those religious shows, see how religion is used to control people, see how slave owners and Pharoahs and Kings used it to control the masses, I talk to hypocrite theists who confirm religion doesn't necessary work, notice that there are 999 other religions all claiming they are the truth and the other ones are not, etc. So these are reasons why I speak up.
Okay. I agree with you here. Many evangelical preachers and televangelists are off their rockers. Benny Hinn is my prime example of ostentatious bullshit. The "prayer clothes", the staged "healings", the limos, the diamond studded Rolex watches, the golden cathedrals, the silk suits and such are all bullshit.



2. A lie is a lie no matter how good it makes people feel.
Again, I agree.

3. I don't like being told I'm going to hell.
I'm almost certain that the dogma of an Atheist religion would not include the existence of hell or any afterlife whatsoever. If you don't believe in a deity, how can you believe in a hell or a heaven? Not to worry. An Atheist Minister (and they do exist) would not say that you're going to hell.

4. Did you see the poll that the least electable person was the atheist? A pot smoking phylanderer has a better chance. I'm here to change perception. I remember being a theist. I thought atheist were the devil. Now I know better and I think others should too.
I haven't seen the poll. Be patient though. We've already elected a black Muslim sympathizer if not a black Muslim.

Perhaps you were misled by a radical, fire and brimstone Baptist preacher. I know better than that myself.

I grew up a Methodist, married a gem of a Baptist girl, saw no sense in our belonging to separate denominations and became a Baptist. After several years of attending church, I was ordained a Baptist deacon, got involved in the Evangelism Explosion wherein we'd go out in pairs and try to convince no-churchgoers to join our church. The instructions were to always ask the questions to the family member that was considered more likely to say "yes". I questioned the leader of the group by asking if this was simply a ploy to manipulate the minds of the other members. He answered affirmatively. I quit the program. I later divorced my wife and became the black sheep of a large Baptist clan of what you might call "bible thumpers". I was also the black sheep of the local church...one which had its fair share of ostentatious trappings. I'm still a Christian but I do not try to push my religious beliefs on others.

5. It is unnecessary and not even all that effective. Lots of religious assholes and look how religion makes gays feel guilty about themselves.
By the same token, gays are lovingly accepted in many churches. That is likely so in all of the existing Atheist churches.

Anyways, that's my feelings, and I don't necessarily care if they get the protected status. They should have to prove their charitable works though. Do churches have to give so much to charity? They should. Otherwise it leaves the door open to all the con artists.
True. There have been all too many corrupt church leaders piling up cash and possessions for themselves, turning their non-profit church into their own personal cash cow. I think churches should be required to give all but the costs of real estate, maintenance thereof and negotiated staff salaries to charities, either philanthropic or medical research charities or directly to the homeless and needy people living around their own community.

I watch that guy on tv ask people to send in $70 x 10 months and a miracle will happen. I wonder how much of that goes to charity and they don't pay taxes?
Again I concur. Asking people to donate any particular amount is ludicrous. There's a parable about that in the NT, I think...where a poor beggar gave all she had...or something like that. I've also heard of some preachers that will say to a member of their congregation something like "I had a revelation from God last night and He said you should donate $500.00." This is nothing more than extortion.

One of the existing Atheist churches has a donation block on their website complete with the little credit card symbols for Visa, Mastercard and Amex. They say that you are welcome to donate but they don't expect you to.

And if there is a god and he actually cares about you he would reward your intelligence.
Not sure about that. I've heard that God takes care of fools and babies. I interpret that to mean that NOBODY is going to hell when this shit is over.

I hear you on USMB all the time stating your opinion. Why do you do it? Aren't you meddling in other people's delusions just by posting the things you write? I agree with the things you write, I'm just saying. Don't act like you don't get some satisfaction explaining to people why you think they are wrong. Why do you do it?
I do post a lot of opinion on USMB. Some of what I post is pure and simply factual. A lot of it is conjecture and speculation. Some of that is to argue against opposing political views. Some of it is to express my considered opinion regarding something that might be unsubstantiated by the poster to whom I reply.

1. I don't have to believe in hell to be annoyed by people who tell me I'm going to hell. Funny I was thinking about this on the way in to work today just how heavily religion relies on guilt. You don't think I sometimes feel guilty or question myself on this god thing? Then I quickly rationalize any issue I have and go about being an atheist.

I even question my position on whether or not religion, regardless of it is true or not, if it is good or bad overall. I know religions do a lot of good too. But they also do a lot of bad and does it even matter? If it is not true, its time for the human race to evolve beyond believing in fairy tales. You can't be that smart of a species if you are so superstitious that you believe the unbelievable, or because you can't imagine any other way. Best to admit you don't know and keep on looking. Plus, I know I'm good even though I don't believe in god so I don't believe it is necessary. If it makes you feel good I'm happy for you.

But I suspect you guys aren't on USMB because you are 100% sure. You can't be. You can't read all our replies and say you are 100% sure.

PS. From now on I think all theists should have to say what their denomination is when they reply. I need to know why they believe in god. Because if they believe the moses, noah, adam & eve stories, then they are just crazy. Or if you are a christian who doesn't take those stories literally, do you also not take the virgin birth, miracle, rose from the dead stories literally either? This is important.

Because a lot of theists on USMB are generic god believers. Or some of them are jews or mormons or muslims. I need to know what crazy I'm dealing with otherwise you guys think you caught us in a mistake when it is hard to keep your fairy tales straight. Last night I saw on a religious game show that Noah lived 350 years after the arc? Is that true?

Okay.


1. I don't have to believe in hell to be annoyed by people who tell me I'm going to hell. Funny I was thinking about this on the way in to work today just how heavily religion relies on guilt. You don't think I sometimes feel guilty or question myself on this god thing? Then I quickly rationalize any issue I have and go about being an atheist.
I don't believe in Hell (as described in the Bible and by many preachers) either. Hell is where we are now.

I even question my position on whether or not religion, regardless of it is true or not, if it is good or bad overall. I know religions do a lot of good too. But they also do a lot of bad and does it even matter? If it is not true, its time for the human race to evolve beyond believing in fairy tales. You can't be that smart of a species if you are so superstitious that you believe the unbelievable, or because you can't imagine any other way. Best to admit you don't know and keep on looking. Plus, I know I'm good even though I don't believe in god so I don't believe it is necessary. If it makes you feel good I'm happy for you.
I concur. That means we both agree that there is no sense in attacking religions just because one might be an atheist and want to express disdain for religion. No matter what a person believes, if it makes them happy and doesn't step on the beliefs of others, I'm happy for them. It's when their religion demands something of me that I take offense....especially if they demand my death for not following their doctrine. That is why I oppose the idea the of hell in the afterlife.

But I suspect you guys aren't on USMB because you are 100% sure. You can't be. You can't read all our replies and say you are 100% sure.
There are many things that I am not 100% sure of...they are based on belief, just as is the Atheist's contention that no deity exists.

PS. From now on I think all theists should have to say what their denomination is when they reply. I need to know why they believe in god. Because if they believe the moses, noah, adam & eve stories, then they are just crazy. Or if you are a christian who doesn't take those stories literally, do you also not take the virgin birth, miracle, rose from the dead stories literally either? This is important.
As I have stated elsewhere, I don't take the Bible literally. It is full of allegory and parables. It may have been inspired by God as they say, but the authors did not understand evolution or geological time so the stories were presented in terms the people of the day could understand. The 6-day creation is obviously preposterous, as is Adam and Eve being only two people. I think God created everything but we will never fully understand how it was done.

Because a lot of theists on USMB are generic god believers. Or some of them are jews or mormons or muslims. I need to know what crazy I'm dealing with otherwise you guys think you caught us in a mistake when it is hard to keep your fairy tales straight. Last night I saw on a religious game show that Noah lived 350 years after the arc? Is that true?
Posters telling you their denominations would only cause you to generalize and conclude that they hold dear to all the teachings of whatever group they claim to be in. I am a Christian. That does not mean I believe what all the puffed-up evangelicals proclaim or every word printed in the Bible, or that God will punish me for not believing everything in it.

If you don't believe Mary was a virgin and god knocked her up and jesus was god and did miracles and rose from the dead then you are not a christian my friend.

I use to call myself a Christian and believed just as you do. It wasn't long before I realized I wasn't a christian but still believed in god and then it wasn't long before I realized there is no god.

Or if there is, he cares about you and I as much as you or I care about a fly on the back of a rhino's back in Africa. You have to realize if the stories are made up, then god has never visited anyone or told anyone anything. We just came up with the concept 400,000 years ago when we were very scared primitive beings. Sentient but uncivilized and wild imaginations plus a healthy fear of the unknown. It's true.

And what if I believe religion is used to control/manipulate the masses? They use god to divide the middle class. They use god to con poor and middle class people into voting against themselves financially just like they use other wedge issues like guns, gays and racism.

My goal is for people to be too smart to be religious. I hope one day people are either spiritual or not spiritual. If you belong to a religion basically you belong to a lie. Jesus didn't rise from the dead and Noah didn't live to be 350 years old.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham

Believe what you will...about me, God or anything else in existence.

Whether the other biblical stories are absolutely factual is of no concern to me. Something out of the ordinary, or supernatural happened some 2000 + years ago...significant enough to cause mankind to establish a reference point for recording time. BC meant Before Christ until recently objected to by Atheists who had it changed to BCE Before Common Era.

You should care if the stories are true or not. They say Jonah living in a whales belly is not an allegory. They say Jesus even said it really happened. They say Noah lived 350 years. Think about it. If the Adam & Eve, Moses, Jonah, Noah stories are all allegories, so too are the Jesus myths. You want to believe despite the evidence.

Yea yea, we know the history of how Christianity took hold and how later established BC and AD. So what? If the evidence is so obvious, how come the Chinese and Muslims don't convert? They got their own myth.

 

[sealybobo]

And Jesus himself said only through him can go get to heaven. This is clearly cult mentality.

“Now, if the book of Genesis is an allegory, then sin is an allegory, the Fall is an allegory and the need for a Savior is an allegory – but if we are all descendants of an allegory, where does that leave us? It destroys the foundation of all Christian doctrine—it destroys the foundation of the gospel.” - Ken Ham