Why do patriotic Americans support Zionism?

[Marc39]

Links?

I've already posted links, dummy. You can't expect me to indulge your mental impairment indefintely.

That said, your incessant need for links reflects your lack of education. Rather than relying on others to constantly spoon-feed you knowledge, try to show some drive and self-motivation and do your own homework.

My grade school-age daughter is better educated than you.

Is that why you can never back up what you say?

I realize you are mentally ill, but, try to use the search engine for my links supporting my posts.

My grade school-age daughter is more self-reliant than you.

Take your schizophrenia medication. I know all about you.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I've already posted links, dummy. You can't expect me to indulge your mental impairment indefintely.

That said, your incessant need for links reflects your lack of education. Rather than relying on others to constantly spoon-feed you knowledge, try to show some drive and self-motivation and do your own homework.

My grade school-age daughter is better educated than you.

Is that why you can never back up what you say?

I realize you are mentally ill, but, try to use the search engine for my links supporting my posts.

My grade school-age daughter is more self-reliant than you.

Take your schizophrenia medication. I know all about you.

If you know all about me you would know that I am not schizophrenic and I take no meds.

You are just blowing smoke out your ass as usual.

 

[Marc39]

Is that why you can never back up what you say?

I realize you are mentally ill, but, try to use the search engine for my links supporting my posts.

My grade school-age daughter is more self-reliant than you.

Take your schizophrenia medication. I know all about you.

If you know all about me you would know that I am not schizophrenic and I take no meds.

You are just blowing smoke out your ass as usual.

That's your story and you're sticking to it.

I know your real story, though, from others who know you. Take the schizophrenia medication.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Jews were not foreigners. Jews, and Christians, lived in Palestine for centuries prior to Muslims invading in 636, in the Battle of Yarmuk, making Muslims the foreigners.

You continue to demonstrate just how out of your depth and uneducated you are.

The so-called provisional government of Israel which was formed in 1948 consisted of the following:

1. David Ben Gurion who came to Palestine in 1906; 2. Moshe Sharett who came to Palestine in 1906; 3. Eliezer Kaplan who came to Palestine in 1923; 4. David Remez who came to Palestine in 1913; 5. Golda Myerson who came to Palestine in 1921; 6. Zalman Shazar who came to Palestine in 1924; 7. Dr. Dov Joseph who came to Palestine in 1921; 8. Dr. P. F. Rosenbluth who came to Palestine in 1931 ; 9. Rabbi J. L. Fishman who came to Palestine in 19 13; 10. Rabbi I. M. Levin who came to Palestine in 1940; 11. Moshe Shapiro who came to Palestine in 1925; and, 12. Bechor Shitreet, who was born in Palestine.

Yes, foreigners.

You're flailing badly. My advice is to post less and study the subject matter much, much more.

Your manic and uninformed posts do you a great disservice.

Israel existed not once but twice in antiquity, well before Muslim foreigners invaded.

They look like a bunch of foreigners to me. Only one was born in Palestine.

 

[Marc39]

The so-called provisional government of Israel which was formed in 1948 consisted of the following:

1. David Ben Gurion who came to Palestine in 1906; 2. Moshe Sharett who came to Palestine in 1906; 3. Eliezer Kaplan who came to Palestine in 1923; 4. David Remez who came to Palestine in 1913; 5. Golda Myerson who came to Palestine in 1921; 6. Zalman Shazar who came to Palestine in 1924; 7. Dr. Dov Joseph who came to Palestine in 1921; 8. Dr. P. F. Rosenbluth who came to Palestine in 1931 ; 9. Rabbi J. L. Fishman who came to Palestine in 19 13; 10. Rabbi I. M. Levin who came to Palestine in 1940; 11. Moshe Shapiro who came to Palestine in 1925; and, 12. Bechor Shitreet, who was born in Palestine.

Yes, foreigners.

You're flailing badly. My advice is to post less and study the subject matter much, much more.

Your manic and uninformed posts do you a great disservice.

Israel existed not once but twice in antiquity, well before Muslim foreigners invaded.

They look like a bunch of foreigners to me. Only one was born in Palestine.

They must be suffering from schizophrenia, like you. I know all about you, schizo.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You're flailing badly. My advice is to post less and study the subject matter much, much more.

Your manic and uninformed posts do you a great disservice.

Israel existed not once but twice in antiquity, well before Muslim foreigners invaded.

They look like a bunch of foreigners to me. Only one was born in Palestine.

They must be suffering from schizophrenia, like you. I know all about you, schizo.

A bunch of foreigners invading Palestine. The Palestinians have the right to resist this takeover.

 

[Shai]

They look like a bunch of foreigners to me. Only one was born in Palestine.

They must be suffering from schizophrenia, like you. I know all about you, schizo.

A bunch of foreigners invading Palestine. The Palestinians have the right to resist this takeover.

If anyone had the right to resist this "takeover" its the the British and not the Palestinians. This country was never ruled by Palestinians and was never belonged to them.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09pmTh64vD8[/ame]

 

[daveman]

I wonder haw many sought Palestinian citizenship and how many were illegal immigrants.

How do you seek citizenship from the government of a nation that never existed?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I wonder haw many sought Palestinian citizenship and how many were illegal immigrants.

How do you seek citizenship from the government of a nation that never existed?

Interesting question. Someone had to stamp "Palestine" on all those birth certificates as the place of birth.

Poland was the home of the Polish people. Then it was occupied by Germany.

Poland was still the home of the Polish people. Then it came under Soviet rule.

Poland was still the home of the Polish people.

Poland is now still the home of the Polish people. Same people, same place, and it was and is their home.

How can the Vietnamese call themselves Vietnamese when it was French Indo China? What was the place called before the French took over? It doesn't matter. Same people, same place, and it was and is their home.

So what is all this obfuscation about Palestine not being called Palestine thousands of years ago? Or that it was ruled by the Ottoman Empire then occupied by Britain then occupied by Israel.

Same people, same place, and it was and is their home.

This isn't rocket science, people.

 

[editec]

I wonder haw many sought Palestinian citizenship and how many were illegal immigrants.

How do you seek citizenship from the government of a nation that never existed?

The early (pre WWI) Zionists emmigrated to Ottoman controlled Palestine legally.

They also lived with and worked with the local Palestinians.

The bought their land (often from Turk owners, but the land was worked by Palestinians, who actually lived on it) and they went out of their way to respect the rights of the people who'd been renting it and working it for generation.

One of the most contentious debates among the early Zionists and the later crop of Jewish immigrants was how to treat the Palestinians.

The later group just wanted the Palestinians gone, and they didn't care what happened to them.

The early crop of Zionists wanted to accomodate the Palestinians.

The story of the Jewish takeover of the land formerly known asd Palestine is a LOT more complicated that most of us want to admit, folks.

 

[Marc39]

I wonder haw many sought Palestinian citizenship and how many were illegal immigrants.

How do you seek citizenship from the government of a nation that never existed?

The early (pre WWI) Zionists emmigrated to Ottoman controlled Palestine legally.

They also lived with and worked with the local Palestinians.

The bought their land (often from Turk owners, but the land was worked by Palestinians, who actually lived on it) and they went out of their way to respect the rights of the people who'd been renting it and working it for generation.

One of the most contentious debates among the early Zionists and the later crop of Jewish immigrants was how to treat the Palestinians.

The later group just wanted the Palestinians gone, and they didn't care what happened to them.

The early crop of Zionists wanted to accomodate the Palestinians.

The story of the Jewish takeover of the land formerly known asd Palestine is a LOT more complicated that most of us want to admit, folks.

There was no takeover. Arabs, who owned no land nor had sovereignty, were offered both by the UN in 1947 which they rejected. Just one of many poor decisions made by Arabs.

And, they were not Palestinians until they started calling themselves that in the 1960s. Palestine never existed as a political or legal entity and, in fact, was part of Syria during Ottoman rule. Palestine was governed by Damascus. Arabs self-identified as Syrians among other things, but, never as Palestinians.

 

[P F Tinmore]

How do you seek citizenship from the government of a nation that never existed?

The early (pre WWI) Zionists emmigrated to Ottoman controlled Palestine legally.

They also lived with and worked with the local Palestinians.

The bought their land (often from Turk owners, but the land was worked by Palestinians, who actually lived on it) and they went out of their way to respect the rights of the people who'd been renting it and working it for generation.

One of the most contentious debates among the early Zionists and the later crop of Jewish immigrants was how to treat the Palestinians.

The later group just wanted the Palestinians gone, and they didn't care what happened to them.

The early crop of Zionists wanted to accomodate the Palestinians.

The story of the Jewish takeover of the land formerly known asd Palestine is a LOT more complicated that most of us want to admit, folks.

There was no takeover. Arabs, who owned no land nor had sovereignty, were offered both by the UN in 1947 which they rejected. Just one of many poor decisions made by Arabs.

And, they were not Palestinians until they started calling themselves that in the 1960s. Palestine never existed as a political or legal entity and, in fact, was part of Syria during Ottoman rule. Palestine was governed by Damascus. Arabs self-identified as Syrians among other things, but, never as Palestinians.

To say that the Palestinians owned no land is a misunderstanding of the Ottoman land laws.

 

[Marc39]

.

The bought their land (often from Turk owners, but the land was worked by Palestinians, who actually lived on it) and they went out of their way to respect the rights of the people who'd been renting it and working it for generation.

One of the most contentious debates among the early Zionists and the later crop of Jewish immigrants was how to treat the Palestinians.

The later group just wanted the Palestinians gone, and they didn't care what happened to them.

The early crop of Zionists wanted to accomodate the Palestinians.

The story of the Jewish takeover of the land formerly known asd Palestine is a LOT more complicated that most of us want to admit, folks.

Arabs in Palestine under Ottoman rule, for the most part, leased "miri" land from the Turkish Sultanate that, ultimately, reverted to the state.

Privately-owned "mulk" land was rare. Most mulk land was owned by the Arab elite who did not live in Palestine because of its poor condition, they lived in Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere.

Much, if not most, mulk land was sold by wealhy Arabs to immigrating Jews and at exhorbitant prices as the land was of value only to the Jews. Arabs lined up eagerly selling their land holdings, including the Mufti, who condemned the Jews while selling them his family's property. The JNF's lament was insufficient capital with which to buy more Arab land.

 

[P F Tinmore]

.

The bought their land (often from Turk owners, but the land was worked by Palestinians, who actually lived on it) and they went out of their way to respect the rights of the people who'd been renting it and working it for generation.

One of the most contentious debates among the early Zionists and the later crop of Jewish immigrants was how to treat the Palestinians.

The later group just wanted the Palestinians gone, and they didn't care what happened to them.

The early crop of Zionists wanted to accomodate the Palestinians.

The story of the Jewish takeover of the land formerly known asd Palestine is a LOT more complicated that most of us want to admit, folks.

Arabs in Palestine under Ottoman rule, for the most part, leased "miri" land from the Turkish Sultanate that, ultimately, reverted to the state.

Privately-owned "mulk" land was rare. Most mulk land was owned by the Arab elite who did not live in Palestine because of its poor condition, they lived in Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere.

Much, if not most, mulk land was sold by wealhy Arabs to immigrating Jews and at exhorbitant prices as the land was of value only to the Jews. Arabs lined up eagerly selling their land holdings, including the Mufti, who condemned the Jews while selling them his family's property. The JNF's lament was insufficient capital with which to buy more Arab land.

The land laws were as much about land rights as they were land ownership. Ultimately land belonged to the state which is similar everywhere including the US.

Palestinians could inherit, buy, or sell the land they had the right to. It guaranteed the right to graze for nomadic tribes. As a note, Venezuela's constitution protects the rights of native populations who live in the communal land system where no one owns the land but everyone owns the land.

Of course the colonists believed that if there was no "ownership" they could take it in disregard of the rights laid down in law.

 

[rhodescholar]

They look like a bunch of foreigners to me. Only one was born in Palestine.

Of course to the mentally ill, jews are not allowed to move/immigrate. But when huge numbers of mexicans move to the US for economic reasons - that's allowed because they're "just trying to find a better life."

There is no less capable a mind than a liberal idiot whose totally under the leftwing media's machinery...

 

[Marc39]

.

The bought their land (often from Turk owners, but the land was worked by Palestinians, who actually lived on it) and they went out of their way to respect the rights of the people who'd been renting it and working it for generation.

One of the most contentious debates among the early Zionists and the later crop of Jewish immigrants was how to treat the Palestinians.

The later group just wanted the Palestinians gone, and they didn't care what happened to them.

The early crop of Zionists wanted to accomodate the Palestinians.

The story of the Jewish takeover of the land formerly known asd Palestine is a LOT more complicated that most of us want to admit, folks.

Arabs in Palestine under Ottoman rule, for the most part, leased "miri" land from the Turkish Sultanate that, ultimately, reverted to the state.

Privately-owned "mulk" land was rare. Most mulk land was owned by the Arab elite who did not live in Palestine because of its poor condition, they lived in Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere.

Much, if not most, mulk land was sold by wealhy Arabs to immigrating Jews and at exhorbitant prices as the land was of value only to the Jews. Arabs lined up eagerly selling their land holdings, including the Mufti, who condemned the Jews while selling them his family's property. The JNF's lament was insufficient capital with which to buy more Arab land.

The land laws were as much about land rights as they were land ownership. Ultimately land belonged to the state which is similar everywhere including the US.

Palestinians could inherit, buy, or sell the land they had the right to. It guaranteed the right to graze for nomadic tribes. As a note, Venezuela's constitution protects the rights of native populations who live in the communal land system where no one owns the land but everyone owns the land.

Of course the colonists believed that if there was no "ownership" they could take it in disregard of the rights laid down in law.

You just made that up, didn't you, schizo boy?

There were no Palestinians during Ottoman rule. Arabs self-identified as Syrians, Ottoman nationals, Muslims/Christians, or by various tribes and clans. Never as Palestinians as Palestine was viewed as southern Syria, governed by Damascus

99% of Palestine was owned by the Ottoman Sultanate and was non-transferrable.

Arab Bedouins had no property rights under Ottoman rule. So much so that land reform instituted in the mid-19th century designed to raise property taxes served to undermine the Bedouins by dispossessing them of the minimal privately held "mulk" land, transferring their land to wealthy Arabs who didn't even live in Palestine.

Those few Bedouins who tried to hold onto their land were forced to pay Arab loansharks high interest loans to pay their taxes,but, ultimately, they, too, lost their land unable to keep up with taxes.

Thus, the Arab Muslim Bedouins were undermined by their own Arab Muslim Turkish brethren.

You're severely uneducated and merely making up stuff won't get you very far.

Also, take your schizophrenic medication. I know all about you.

 

[editec]

Arabs in Palestine under Ottoman rule, for the most part, leased "miri" land from the Turkish Sultanate that, ultimately, reverted to the state.

Privately-owned "mulk" land was rare. Most mulk land was owned by the Arab elite who did not live in Palestine because of its poor condition, they lived in Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere.

Much, if not most, mulk land was sold by wealhy Arabs to immigrating Jews and at exhorbitant prices as the land was of value only to the Jews. Arabs lined up eagerly selling their land holdings, including the Mufti, who condemned the Jews while selling them his family's property. The JNF's lament was insufficient capital with which to buy more Arab land.

The land laws were as much about land rights as they were land ownership. Ultimately land belonged to the state which is similar everywhere including the US.

Palestinians could inherit, buy, or sell the land they had the right to. It guaranteed the right to graze for nomadic tribes. As a note, Venezuela's constitution protects the rights of native populations who live in the communal land system where no one owns the land but everyone owns the land.

Of course the colonists believed that if there was no "ownership" they could take it in disregard of the rights laid down in law.

You just made that up, didn't you, schizo boy?

There were no Palestinians during Ottoman rule. Arabs self-identified as Syrians, Ottoman nationals, Muslims/Christians, or by various tribes and clans. Never as Palestinians as Palestine was viewed as southern Syria, governed by Damascus

99% of Palestine was owned by the Ottoman Sultanate and was non-transferrable.

Arab Bedouins had no property rights under Ottoman rule. So much so that land reform instituted in the mid-19th century designed to raise property taxes served to undermine the Bedouins by dispossessing them of the minimal privately held "mulk" land, transferring their land to wealthy Arabs who didn't even live in Palestine.

Those few Bedouins who tried to hold onto their land were forced to pay Arab loansharks high interest loans to pay their taxes,but, ultimately, they, too, lost their land unable to keep up with taxes.

Thus, the Arab Muslim Bedouins were undermined by their own Arab Muslim Turkish brethren.

You're severely uneducated and merely making up stuff won't get you very far.

Also, take your schizophrenic medication. I know all about you.

There's so many historical errors in the above one bearly knows where to begin.

The Turks aren't Arabs, let's start with that. They're not even Semites, like the Sephardic Jews and the Arabs both are, they're Tuckics,for criminies sakes.

Plenty of people living in the land then called Palestine owned their own land...including Jews who'd never left that land since ROMAN TIMES, incidently

The "Arabs" living in Palestine were no more Bedouins than Americas are.

And finally if as you suggest " 99% of Palestine was owned by the Ottoman Sultanate and was non-transferrable." from whom and by what laws did the original (socialist) European Jews buy that land?

This is mostly why I stay out of these Israeli/Palestinian debates, folks.

The level of rancor and outright bullshit some of you believe is impervious to facts that scholars on BOTH sides of this debate KNOW to be true and never bother to refute or debate.

Educate yourselves.

 

[Marc39]

Arabs[/I], let's start with that. They're not even Semites, like the Sephardic Jews and the Arabs both are, they're Tuckics,for criminies sakes.

I never said Turks are Arabs, moron. Learn basic reading comprehension skills.

Plenty of people living in the land then called Palestine owned their own land...including Jews who'd never left that land since ROMAN TIMES, incidently

Moron, you're wrong. Palestine was under Turkish sovereignty and controlled by the Sultanate.

The "Arabs" living in Palestine were no more Bedouins than Americas are.

Moron, Arabs throughout the Middle East and Palestine were Bedouins.

And finally if as you suggest " 99% of Palestine was owned by the Ottoman Sultanate and was non-transferrable." from whom and by what laws did the original (socialist) European Jews buy that land?

Moron, Jews purchased the remaining 1% of privately held land. Sovereignty of Palestine was transferred to the WW I Allies in signing the Treaty of Sevres and in the Allies adopting the San Remo Resolution.

You're done. Go fuck yourself, ignoramus.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I wonder haw many sought Palestinian citizenship and how many were illegal immigrants.

How do you seek citizenship from the government of a nation that never existed?

It was a part of the Palestine Mandate to facilitate Jews to get Palestinian citizenship.

Palestine has always been the homeland of the Jews. Jews have lived in Palestine since the beginning of time. Even today Jews living in Palestine, both as citizens and foreign nationals, are safer than Jews living in Israel.

 

[Marc39]

I wonder haw many sought Palestinian citizenship and how many were illegal immigrants.

How do you seek citizenship from the government of a nation that never existed?

It was a part of the Palestine Mandate to facilitate Jews to get Palestinian citizenship.

Palestine has always been the homeland of the Jews. Jews have lived in Palestine since the beginning of time. Even today Jews living in Palestine, both as citizens and foreign nationals, are safer than Jews living in Israel.

Palestine is mentioned in the Old Testament...zero times.
Palestine is mentioned in the New Testament...zero times.
Palestine is mentioned in the Quran...zero times.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...

For Arabs, too, the term Palestine was unacceptable, though for other reasons. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278678667&sr=8-6]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]