Why do the God-haters persist?

[Boss]

True, but like them, I think society will be better off when people wake up.

But here is the thing... You can't change a fundamental human behavioral attribute. I can say society will be better off when people no longer hate. Now, is that ever going to happen? Nope, it's a fundamental human behavioral attribute that isn't going to ever go away. There will always be people who hate. I may delude myself into thinking if I come here daily and spend hours and hours speaking out against hate and preaching love and tolerance, that one day hate can be a thing of the past... but that's not rational. In fact, I would suspect my miniscule contribution would do little if anything to erase hate.

But remember, I'm a new atheist.

Are you an Atheist today? Yesterday, you were an "agnostic atheist" who believed the most rational position was one of skepticism. Now you are saying you're not skeptical, you've made up your mind.

Now I'm trying to open your eyes like my buddies opened my eyes.

Well all you need to do is explain to me what I am spiritually connecting with. It's not my imagination because I gain enormous benefit from it. It's not religious brainwashing, I hardly ever listen to preachers or go to churches. It's not something physical because there is no physical evidence for it. So what is this I am connecting with that is bestowing a bounty of blessings on me?

Personal revelation cannot be independently verified.

Never have claimed it could. Personal experience can't be dismissed. I can't pretend I am not connecting to something when I know that I am. I haven't tried to get you to believe what I know is true, that's up to you. All I can do is tell you what I experience, and if you don't want to believe it, that's fine. If you believe I have been trying to "convert" you, perhaps you suffer from paranoia?

The fact that medical conditions and other natural processes [2] can induce these experiences is evidence they are produced by our brain.

When you copy and paste your propaganda material, you should at least remove the index tags.

I am not on any kind of medication, have no medical conditions, don't do narcotics. My spiritual connection is not a manifestation of my brain because I realize true benefits from it. My brain isn't producing the benefits.

Almost every day, I begin the day with about 30-45 minutes of 'meditation' or 'prayer' ...whatever you want to call it. I connect with spiritual nature. I contemplate the things that trouble me, I think about what I want to accomplish, I reflect on problems in my personal life, people I love who are sick, people I know who are experiencing turmoil. Throughout the rest of the day, many of these things are resolved or things happen to improve them for the better. My brain isn't doing this, making these things happen.

Now, I said "almost" every day. Honestly, I sometimes don't take the time to do this. On those days, I experience more conflict, more turmoil, more problems than I know how to deal with. Again, my brain isn't causing these things to happen, they are just happening. I don't have a scientific explanation for this, it's not something physical in nature. But the results are real and I can't ignore that.

The other day, I meditated about a $250 electric bill which I had no idea how I was going to pay. I had $50, but in speaking with the electric company, that wasn't going to be enough to keep my power on. So I meditate for 30 minutes about that... I felt a sense of calmness come over me, suddenly I was not worried about this anymore. Less than one hour later, I go to the mailbox and there is a letter from another power company. It was where I had lived 20 years ago in Georgia. They were sending me a check for $200, a refund of the deposit I had paid way back when. Did my brain make that happen?

I can give you thousands upon thousands of stories like this. Five years ago, I was vacationing in Florida. I wandered out into the ocean and saw a sandbar nearby. I decided it would be cool to swim out to it and stand on it... about 50 yards from shore. After frolicking around a bit, I began swimming back to shore... but there had developed a riptide between me and the shore, and it began sweeping me horizontally down the coast. I was swimming as hard as I could but going nowhere. I swam desperately for nearly an hour until I was completely exhausted... still it seemed I was no closer to the shore. I began to pray because I really did think I was about to die. Suddenly, the same calmness came over me, by entire body relaxed. At first I thought, okay, I am about to die. But I just floated along in the water for a bit, and as odd as it sounds, I started paddling with the flow of the current. Before I knew it, I was just a few feet from shore. Now, I was three miles down the beach from my condo, but I didn't die. (By the way, 3 people died that day from the riptide.)

I'm not telling you this stuff to "convert" you, but because these are my personal experiences. You are NEVER going to convince me there isn't a higher power. You can type until your heart is content, I will NEVER believe God doesn't exist. I've got all the proof I need. I do not have to prove it to you or anyone else.

 

[sealybobo]

True, but like them, I think society will be better off when people wake up.

But here is the thing... You can't change a fundamental human behavioral attribute.

But remember, I'm a new atheist.

Are you an Atheist today? Yesterday, you were an "agnostic atheist" who believed the most rational position was one of skepticism. Now you are saying you're not skeptical, you've made up your mind.



Well all you need to do is explain to me what I am spiritually connecting with. It's not my imagination because I gain enormous benefit from it. It's not religious brainwashing, I hardly ever listen to preachers or go to churches. It's not something physical because there is no physical evidence for it. So what is this I am connecting with that is bestowing a bounty of blessings on me?

Personal revelation cannot be independently verified.

Never have claimed it could. Personal experience can't be dismissed. I can't pretend I am not connecting to something when I know that I am. I haven't tried to get you to believe what I know is true, that's up to you. All I can do is tell you what I experience, and if you don't want to believe it, that's fine. If you believe I have been trying to "convert" you, perhaps you suffer from paranoia?

The fact that medical conditions and other natural processes [2] can induce these experiences is evidence they are produced by our brain.

When you copy and paste your propaganda material, you should at least remove the index tags.

I am not on any kind of medication, have no medical conditions, don't do narcotics. My spiritual connection is not a manifestation of my brain because I realize true benefits from it. My brain isn't producing the benefits.

Almost every day, I begin the day with about 30-45 minutes of 'meditation' or 'prayer' ...whatever you want to call it. I connect with spiritual nature. I contemplate the things that trouble me, I think about what I want to accomplish, I reflect on problems in my personal life, people I love who are sick, people I know who are experiencing turmoil. Throughout the rest of the day, many of these things are resolved or things happen to improve them for the better. My brain isn't doing this, making these things happen.

Now, I said "almost" every day. Honestly, I sometimes don't take the time to do this. On those days, I experience more conflict, more turmoil, more problems than I know how to deal with. Again, my brain isn't causing these things to happen, they are just happening. I don't have a scientific explanation for this, it's not something physical in nature. But the results are real and I can't ignore that.

The other day, I meditated about a $250 electric bill which I had no idea how I was going to pay. I had $50, but in speaking with the electric company, that wasn't going to be enough to keep my power on. So I meditate for 30 minutes about that... I felt a sense of calmness come over me, suddenly I was not worried about this anymore. Less than one hour later, I go to the mailbox and there is a letter from another power company. It was where I had lived 20 years ago in Georgia. They were sending me a check for $200, a refund of the deposit I had paid way back when. Did my brain make that happen?

I can give you thousands upon thousands of stories like this. Five years ago, I was vacationing in Florida. I wandered out into the ocean and saw a sandbar nearby. I decided it would be cool to swim out to it and stand on it... about 50 yards from shore. After frolicking around a bit, I began swimming back to shore... but there had developed a riptide between me and the shore, and it began sweeping me horizontally down the coast. I was swimming as hard as I could but going nowhere. I swam desperately for nearly an hour until I was completely exhausted... still it seemed I was no closer to the shore. I began to pray because I really did think I was about to die. Suddenly, the same calmness came over me, by entire body relaxed. At first I thought, okay, I am about to die. But I just floated along in the water for a bit, and as odd as it sounds, I started paddling with the flow of the current. Before I knew it, I was just a few feet from shore. Now, I was three miles down the beach from my condo, but I didn't die. (By the way, 3 people died that day from the riptide.)

I'm not telling you this stuff to "convert" you, but because these are my personal experiences. You are NEVER going to convince me there isn't a higher power. You can type until your heart is content, I will NEVER believe God doesn't exist. I've got all the proof I need. I do not have to prove it to you or anyone else.

You can't change a fundamental human attribute? Really? Because my buddy from Iran used to pray 5 times a day and now he's an atheist. What changed? The open and free society.

And people aren't born religious they are taught it. When less and less people are going to church or following, the religion slowly goes away. I can't see a return to conservative religious America. We are progressively becoming more and more liberal each day. What do you think will drag us back to more people finding jesus?

Did you see 7 out of 10 don't take the bible literally??? Do you know what this means? This means that it's only a matter of time that those people realize the entire religion is based on a lie. Emily tried to say the adam and eve story is a story to teach about......

So it's a lie? That's all the proof you should need we've been brainwashed/hard wired to believe in god. But as we get smarter guess what? God goes away. Your children will not buy the shit you are trying to push. They're getting smarter too. And they won't be ostrasized by their friends if they don't go to church or believe in jesus because neither do they. I'm not talking about in the bible belt. I live in Michigan and no one around me hardly are bible thumpers and very few of my friends go to church ever.

 

[sealybobo]

True, but like them, I think society will be better off when people wake up.

But here is the thing... You can't change a fundamental human behavioral attribute. I can say society will be better off when people no longer hate. Now, is that ever going to happen? Nope, it's a fundamental human behavioral attribute that isn't going to ever go away. There will always be people who hate. I may delude myself into thinking if I come here daily and spend hours and hours speaking out against hate and preaching love and tolerance, that one day hate can be a thing of the past... but that's not rational. In fact, I would suspect my miniscule contribution would do little if anything to erase hate.

But remember, I'm a new atheist.

Are you an Atheist today? Yesterday, you were an "agnostic atheist" who believed the most rational position was one of skepticism. Now you are saying you're not skeptical, you've made up your mind.



Well all you need to do is explain to me what I am spiritually connecting with. It's not my imagination because I gain enormous benefit from it. It's not religious brainwashing, I hardly ever listen to preachers or go to churches. It's not something physical because there is no physical evidence for it. So what is this I am connecting with that is bestowing a bounty of blessings on me?

Personal revelation cannot be independently verified.

Never have claimed it could. Personal experience can't be dismissed. I can't pretend I am not connecting to something when I know that I am. I haven't tried to get you to believe what I know is true, that's up to you. All I can do is tell you what I experience, and if you don't want to believe it, that's fine. If you believe I have been trying to "convert" you, perhaps you suffer from paranoia?

The fact that medical conditions and other natural processes [2] can induce these experiences is evidence they are produced by our brain.

When you copy and paste your propaganda material, you should at least remove the index tags.

I am not on any kind of medication, have no medical conditions, don't do narcotics. My spiritual connection is not a manifestation of my brain because I realize true benefits from it. My brain isn't producing the benefits.

Almost every day, I begin the day with about 30-45 minutes of 'meditation' or 'prayer' ...whatever you want to call it. I connect with spiritual nature. I contemplate the things that trouble me, I think about what I want to accomplish, I reflect on problems in my personal life, people I love who are sick, people I know who are experiencing turmoil. Throughout the rest of the day, many of these things are resolved or things happen to improve them for the better. My brain isn't doing this, making these things happen.

Now, I said "almost" every day. Honestly, I sometimes don't take the time to do this. On those days, I experience more conflict, more turmoil, more problems than I know how to deal with. Again, my brain isn't causing these things to happen, they are just happening. I don't have a scientific explanation for this, it's not something physical in nature. But the results are real and I can't ignore that.

The other day, I meditated about a $250 electric bill which I had no idea how I was going to pay. I had $50, but in speaking with the electric company, that wasn't going to be enough to keep my power on. So I meditate for 30 minutes about that... I felt a sense of calmness come over me, suddenly I was not worried about this anymore. Less than one hour later, I go to the mailbox and there is a letter from another power company. It was where I had lived 20 years ago in Georgia. They were sending me a check for $200, a refund of the deposit I had paid way back when. Did my brain make that happen?

I can give you thousands upon thousands of stories like this. Five years ago, I was vacationing in Florida. I wandered out into the ocean and saw a sandbar nearby. I decided it would be cool to swim out to it and stand on it... about 50 yards from shore. After frolicking around a bit, I began swimming back to shore... but there had developed a riptide between me and the shore, and it began sweeping me horizontally down the coast. I was swimming as hard as I could but going nowhere. I swam desperately for nearly an hour until I was completely exhausted... still it seemed I was no closer to the shore. I began to pray because I really did think I was about to die. Suddenly, the same calmness came over me, by entire body relaxed. At first I thought, okay, I am about to die. But I just floated along in the water for a bit, and as odd as it sounds, I started paddling with the flow of the current. Before I knew it, I was just a few feet from shore. Now, I was three miles down the beach from my condo, but I didn't die. (By the way, 3 people died that day from the riptide.)

I've had things like this happen to me too. It wasn't god. And what about the guy who went down and never came back up? Or the baby who walked into a pool and drowned? All of these things can be explained and statistically for every 1 god saves (you) 1000 die.

Want to show me a miracle? Have an amputated limb grow back overnight. That'd be a miracle.

When you were almost drowning? That was your mind. Glad yoga helps though. It probably saved your life.

And I get it. It's not that you know god exists or can prove it. You believe. You want there to be. You WISH there was. YOU HOPE. You pray. But you don't know anything, just like me. What do I know, right?

But I hope you don't believe not believing sends you to hell. Then you cross the line into the lunatic fringe.

Hey, I saw Osama last night. Story about a girl who has to dress as a boy in Afganistan to find work or her family will starve. Those slaves/sheep/property I mean women are very sure there is a god. They too pray to him 5 times a day. Lot of good it's doing them. But if they didn't believe in god maybe they would stand up for themselves? I think we should arm the Afganistan women and when the Taliban try to fuck with them BOOM. Perfect outfits to hide guns. What do you think? We need to free those women. Praying aint helping them. Guns will though. Two hands digging can do a lot more than 1000 praying.

 

[HUGGY]

True, but like them, I think society will be better off when people wake up.

But here is the thing... You can't change a fundamental human behavioral attribute. I can say society will be better off when people no longer hate. Now, is that ever going to happen? Nope, it's a fundamental human behavioral attribute that isn't going to ever go away. There will always be people who hate. I may delude myself into thinking if I come here daily and spend hours and hours speaking out against hate and preaching love and tolerance, that one day hate can be a thing of the past... but that's not rational. In fact, I would suspect my miniscule contribution would do little if anything to erase hate.

But remember, I'm a new atheist.

Are you an Atheist today? Yesterday, you were an "agnostic atheist" who believed the most rational position was one of skepticism. Now you are saying you're not skeptical, you've made up your mind.



Well all you need to do is explain to me what I am spiritually connecting with. It's not my imagination because I gain enormous benefit from it. It's not religious brainwashing, I hardly ever listen to preachers or go to churches. It's not something physical because there is no physical evidence for it. So what is this I am connecting with that is bestowing a bounty of blessings on me?

Personal revelation cannot be independently verified.

Never have claimed it could. Personal experience can't be dismissed. I can't pretend I am not connecting to something when I know that I am. I haven't tried to get you to believe what I know is true, that's up to you. All I can do is tell you what I experience, and if you don't want to believe it, that's fine. If you believe I have been trying to "convert" you, perhaps you suffer from paranoia?

The fact that medical conditions and other natural processes [2] can induce these experiences is evidence they are produced by our brain.

When you copy and paste your propaganda material, you should at least remove the index tags.

I am not on any kind of medication, have no medical conditions, don't do narcotics. My spiritual connection is not a manifestation of my brain because I realize true benefits from it. My brain isn't producing the benefits.

Almost every day, I begin the day with about 30-45 minutes of 'meditation' or 'prayer' ...whatever you want to call it. I connect with spiritual nature. I contemplate the things that trouble me, I think about what I want to accomplish, I reflect on problems in my personal life, people I love who are sick, people I know who are experiencing turmoil. Throughout the rest of the day, many of these things are resolved or things happen to improve them for the better. My brain isn't doing this, making these things happen.

Now, I said "almost" every day. Honestly, I sometimes don't take the time to do this. On those days, I experience more conflict, more turmoil, more problems than I know how to deal with. Again, my brain isn't causing these things to happen, they are just happening. I don't have a scientific explanation for this, it's not something physical in nature. But the results are real and I can't ignore that.

The other day, I meditated about a $250 electric bill which I had no idea how I was going to pay. I had $50, but in speaking with the electric company, that wasn't going to be enough to keep my power on. So I meditate for 30 minutes about that... I felt a sense of calmness come over me, suddenly I was not worried about this anymore. Less than one hour later, I go to the mailbox and there is a letter from another power company. It was where I had lived 20 years ago in Georgia. They were sending me a check for $200, a refund of the deposit I had paid way back when. Did my brain make that happen?

I can give you thousands upon thousands of stories like this. Five years ago, I was vacationing in Florida. I wandered out into the ocean and saw a sandbar nearby. I decided it would be cool to swim out to it and stand on it... about 50 yards from shore. After frolicking around a bit, I began swimming back to shore... but there had developed a riptide between me and the shore, and it began sweeping me horizontally down the coast. I was swimming as hard as I could but going nowhere. I swam desperately for nearly an hour until I was completely exhausted... still it seemed I was no closer to the shore. I began to pray because I really did think I was about to die. Suddenly, the same calmness came over me, by entire body relaxed. At first I thought, okay, I am about to die. But I just floated along in the water for a bit, and as odd as it sounds, I started paddling with the flow of the current. Before I knew it, I was just a few feet from shore. Now, I was three miles down the beach from my condo, but I didn't die. (By the way, 3 people died that day from the riptide.)

I'm not telling you this stuff to "convert" you, but because these are my personal experiences. You are NEVER going to convince me there isn't a higher power. You can type until your heart is content, I will NEVER believe God doesn't exist. I've got all the proof I need. I do not have to prove it to you or anyone else.

"I'm not telling you this stuff to "convert" you"

You've posted the same mantra over a thousand times on this thread alone. You are trying to convince SOMEONE.

 

[Boss]

"I'm not telling you this stuff to "convert" you"

You've posted the same mantra over a thousand times on this thread alone. You are trying to convince SOMEONE.

I don't think anyone has convinced someone of anything in the history of message boards. Why in the hell do you think I am trying to do that? I'm presenting my knowledge from my experiences, and you can take them or leave them, I really don't care.

 

[Boss]

You can't change a fundamental human attribute? Really? Because my buddy from Iran used to pray 5 times a day and now he's an atheist. What changed? The open and free society.

That's an individual changing his individual behavior. People do that all the time. The spiritual attribute still exists in man. His behavior doesn't change that. At some point in the future, he could change his behavior again. At the same time he decided to be an atheist, dozens of other humans decided to be spiritually connected. You've not changed the world.

And people aren't born religious they are taught it. When less and less people are going to church or following, the religion slowly goes away. I can't see a return to conservative religious America. We are progressively becoming more and more liberal each day. What do you think will drag us back to more people finding jesus?

Why are you reverting back again to a religious argument? Humans are spiritually inclined whether they are born into a religious family or ever have any religious upbringing. They don't come from the womb practicing spirituality the same reason they don't come from the womb talking and communicating.

Religions rise and fall, they've done this all through human history, but human spirituality remains virtually unchanged. Progressive and liberal movements rise and fall, happens all throughout history. Just because you think there is some trend happening now, doesn't mean that is always and forever going to be the case.

Now, I don't know what might "drag us back to finding jesus" but I can certainly tell you what has happened in the past to rejuvenate human spirituality, cataclysm. Let's let some asteroid hit the planet and wipe out about half the population, and you'll see a lot of people start to hit their knees and pray again. "There are no atheists in foxholes" as the saying goes. When humans are faced with overwhelming adversity and turmoil, they turn to spiritual connection. The problem today is, too many people have it too good. They don't feel the need to maintain their spiritual connection.

Did you see 7 out of 10 don't take the bible literally??? Do you know what this means? This means that it's only a matter of time that those people realize the entire religion is based on a lie. Emily tried to say the adam and eve story is a story to teach about......

So it's a lie?

Emily didn't say the Bible was a lie. She, along with others, have tried to get you to understand the purpose of the stories in the Bible. The religion isn't based on a lie. It may be misguided or a misinterpretation of God, but that isn't a lie. Still... why are you reverting to religion? Can your brain not comprehend that human spirituality and religion are two different things?

That's all the proof you should need we've been brainwashed/hard wired to believe in god. But as we get smarter guess what? God goes away. Your children will not buy the shit you are trying to push. They're getting smarter too. And they won't be ostrasized by their friends if they don't go to church or believe in jesus because neither do they. I'm not talking about in the bible belt. I live in Michigan and no one around me hardly are bible thumpers and very few of my friends go to church ever.

But that's just not true. We've gotten immensely smarter in the past 2,000 years and Christianity is the most widespread and fastest growing religion today. And that's just Christians... there are a growing number of people who are like myself, strongly connected spiritually without religion. I've not been to church in years, aside from the occasional wedding or funeral. My children all go to church regularly. I never made them go, it has always been their choice.

What you need to understand is, just because you don't know many people around you who are religious or go to church, doesn't mean that is representative of the entire human race. 88% of us are spiritual in some way. 66% of us attend regular religious services. Even in the most devoutly Atheist places on earth, less than 20% are willing to state they don't believe anything greater than self exists. You've got a really long way to go to wipe out human spirituality.

 

[sealybobo]

You can't change a fundamental human attribute? Really? Because my buddy from Iran used to pray 5 times a day and now he's an atheist. What changed? The open and free society.

That's an individual changing his individual behavior. People do that all the time. The spiritual attribute still exists in man. His behavior doesn't change that. At some point in the future, he could change his behavior again. At the same time he decided to be an atheist, dozens of other humans decided to be spiritually connected. You've not changed the world.

And people aren't born religious they are taught it. When less and less people are going to church or following, the religion slowly goes away. I can't see a return to conservative religious America. We are progressively becoming more and more liberal each day. What do you think will drag us back to more people finding jesus?

Why are you reverting back again to a religious argument? Humans are spiritually inclined whether they are born into a religious family or ever have any religious upbringing. They don't come from the womb practicing spirituality the same reason they don't come from the womb talking and communicating.

Religions rise and fall, they've done this all through human history, but human spirituality remains virtually unchanged. Progressive and liberal movements rise and fall, happens all throughout history. Just because you think there is some trend happening now, doesn't mean that is always and forever going to be the case.

Now, I don't know what might "drag us back to finding jesus" but I can certainly tell you what has happened in the past to rejuvenate human spirituality, cataclysm. Let's let some asteroid hit the planet and wipe out about half the population, and you'll see a lot of people start to hit their knees and pray again. "There are no atheists in foxholes" as the saying goes. When humans are faced with overwhelming adversity and turmoil, they turn to spiritual connection. The problem today is, too many people have it too good. They don't feel the need to maintain their spiritual connection.

Did you see 7 out of 10 don't take the bible literally??? Do you know what this means? This means that it's only a matter of time that those people realize the entire religion is based on a lie. Emily tried to say the adam and eve story is a story to teach about......

So it's a lie?

Emily didn't say the Bible was a lie. She, along with others, have tried to get you to understand the purpose of the stories in the Bible. The religion isn't based on a lie. It may be misguided or a misinterpretation of God, but that isn't a lie. Still... why are you reverting to religion? Can your brain not comprehend that human spirituality and religion are two different things?

That's all the proof you should need we've been brainwashed/hard wired to believe in god. But as we get smarter guess what? God goes away. Your children will not buy the shit you are trying to push. They're getting smarter too. And they won't be ostrasized by their friends if they don't go to church or believe in jesus because neither do they. I'm not talking about in the bible belt. I live in Michigan and no one around me hardly are bible thumpers and very few of my friends go to church ever.

But that's just not true. We've gotten immensely smarter in the past 2,000 years and Christianity is the most widespread and fastest growing religion today. And that's just Christians... there are a growing number of people who are like myself, strongly connected spiritually without religion. I've not been to church in years, aside from the occasional wedding or funeral. My children all go to church regularly. I never made them go, it has always been their choice.

What you need to understand is, just because you don't know many people around you who are religious or go to church, doesn't mean that is representative of the entire human race. 88% of us are spiritual in some way. 66% of us attend regular religious services. Even in the most devoutly Atheist places on earth, less than 20% are willing to state they don't believe anything greater than self exists. You've got a really long way to go to wipe out human spirituality.

I can agree that spirituality probably will always be around. Can't say for sure but I would probably agree with you on that. As long as the religions go away I'm cool with that.

And yes Christianity, if the stories aren't literal, are lies. For thousands of years ignorant sheep believed those stories to be literal and still 3 out of 10 still do.

Actually, I do think people might one day stop being spiritual. Like me and my buddy and all the scientists like Neal Degrass Tyson. We are too busy figuring out the universe to waste our time worry about fantasies. But I do agree you praying/meditating is good for the soul or good for your health. But it is possible eventually humans will become intelligent enough to stop calling it god.

I don't believe 66% attend church regularly. I see the people coming out of church every Sunday and I see EVERYONE ELSE who's not in church and I seriously doubt that 66% of the population are in church at 10am on Sunday. Come on Boss admit that number is seriously inflated.

 

[Boss]

You can't change a fundamental human attribute? Really? Because my buddy from Iran used to pray 5 times a day and now he's an atheist. What changed? The open and free society.

That's an individual changing his individual behavior. People do that all the time. The spiritual attribute still exists in man. His behavior doesn't change that. At some point in the future, he could change his behavior again. At the same time he decided to be an atheist, dozens of other humans decided to be spiritually connected. You've not changed the world.



Why are you reverting back again to a religious argument? Humans are spiritually inclined whether they are born into a religious family or ever have any religious upbringing. They don't come from the womb practicing spirituality the same reason they don't come from the womb talking and communicating.

Religions rise and fall, they've done this all through human history, but human spirituality remains virtually unchanged. Progressive and liberal movements rise and fall, happens all throughout history. Just because you think there is some trend happening now, doesn't mean that is always and forever going to be the case.

Now, I don't know what might "drag us back to finding jesus" but I can certainly tell you what has happened in the past to rejuvenate human spirituality, cataclysm. Let's let some asteroid hit the planet and wipe out about half the population, and you'll see a lot of people start to hit their knees and pray again. "There are no atheists in foxholes" as the saying goes. When humans are faced with overwhelming adversity and turmoil, they turn to spiritual connection. The problem today is, too many people have it too good. They don't feel the need to maintain their spiritual connection.



Emily didn't say the Bible was a lie. She, along with others, have tried to get you to understand the purpose of the stories in the Bible. The religion isn't based on a lie. It may be misguided or a misinterpretation of God, but that isn't a lie. Still... why are you reverting to religion? Can your brain not comprehend that human spirituality and religion are two different things?

That's all the proof you should need we've been brainwashed/hard wired to believe in god. But as we get smarter guess what? God goes away. Your children will not buy the shit you are trying to push. They're getting smarter too. And they won't be ostrasized by their friends if they don't go to church or believe in jesus because neither do they. I'm not talking about in the bible belt. I live in Michigan and no one around me hardly are bible thumpers and very few of my friends go to church ever.

But that's just not true. We've gotten immensely smarter in the past 2,000 years and Christianity is the most widespread and fastest growing religion today. And that's just Christians... there are a growing number of people who are like myself, strongly connected spiritually without religion. I've not been to church in years, aside from the occasional wedding or funeral. My children all go to church regularly. I never made them go, it has always been their choice.

What you need to understand is, just because you don't know many people around you who are religious or go to church, doesn't mean that is representative of the entire human race. 88% of us are spiritual in some way. 66% of us attend regular religious services. Even in the most devoutly Atheist places on earth, less than 20% are willing to state they don't believe anything greater than self exists. You've got a really long way to go to wipe out human spirituality.

I can agree that spirituality probably will always be around. Can't say for sure but I would probably agree with you on that. As long as the religions go away I'm cool with that.

And yes Christianity, if the stories aren't literal, are lies. For thousands of years ignorant sheep believed those stories to be literal and still 3 out of 10 still do.

Actually, I do think people might one day stop being spiritual. Like me and my buddy and all the scientists like Neal Degrass Tyson. We are too busy figuring out the universe to waste our time worry about fantasies. But I do agree you praying/meditating is good for the soul or good for your health. But it is possible eventually humans will become intelligent enough to stop calling it god.

I don't believe 66% attend church regularly. I see the people coming out of church every Sunday and I see EVERYONE ELSE who's not in church and I seriously doubt that 66% of the population are in church at 10am on Sunday. Come on Boss admit that number is seriously inflated.

Well, religions are likely not going away because that is how humans manifest their spiritual connections. It's like hoping banks go away... they won't as long as we have currency. Or better yet, hoping governments go away... they won't as long as we have civil social society. The best bet for a hope is that religions modify and adapt to realize a more universal understanding of God.

...if the stories aren't literal, are lies.

This isn't true. The stories, as has been explained, are parables. Now, parables are not lies. They are not literal truths, but that doesn't make them lies by default. And yes, some number of people take them literally because it's what their religion teaches.

Actually, I do think people might one day stop being spiritual. Like me and my buddy and all the scientists like Neal Degrass Tyson.

But that's not going to happen. That's what I am trying to get you to understand, it's a fundamental human attribute. A condition of man that hasn't changed... ever. You, your buddy, and Neil Tyson have simply stopped practicing spiritual connection. Some people stop using electricity, some people stop watching TV, some people stop eating meat... doesn't mean everyone will one day follow suit.

But I do agree you praying/meditating is good for the soul or good for your health. But it is possible eventually humans will become intelligent enough to stop calling it god.

So your main problem is what humans call it? You agree with it and realize it benefits us, but you just don't like that we call it a particular name? I use the term "God" all the time, it's a placeholder for what I connect with that is greater than self. I also refer to God as "He" sometimes, but it doesn't mean I think God has gender or is a human-like being. It could be compared with calling a ship "she" doesn't mean you think ships have gender. Or saying "mother nature" doesn't mean you believe nature is an actual human-like entity.

This cuts to the core of what bothers me most about your type. You dishonestly attack human spirituality instead of admitting your beef is with Christians who seek to impose their sense of morality on society and mess up your decadent lifestyle. That's really what you have a problem with, but instead of admitting the truth, you hide behind this "intellectualist" facade and try to destroy a fundamental human attribute you'll never destroy.

We are too busy figuring out the universe to waste our time worry about fantasies.

Apparently, you and Neil Tyson are NOT to busy to constantly attack and belittle human spirituality. You both spend an awful lot of time doing what you claim you're too busy to do.

I don't believe 66% attend church regularly....Come on Boss admit that number is seriously inflated.

Not according to Pew Research. I think that is who compiled the latest global statistics. You have to remember, there are places where nearly 100% of the population attend regular religious services if for no other reason than because it is mandated by the fundamentalist government. But still, it's not the 66% you should be worried about, it's the 88% of humans who believe in something greater than self. That statistic has hardly changed in all of human history. Now there may be pockets of society where this number varies from the norm, and more people are inclined to be Atheistic. However, and history will back this up as well, whenever societies lose the spiritual foundation entirely, they decline into immoral chaos and collapse.

 

[sealybobo]

You dishonestly attack human spirituality instead of admitting your beef is with Christians who seek to impose their sense of morality on society and mess up your decadent lifestyle. That's really what you have a problem with, but instead of admitting the truth, you hide behind this "intellectualist" facade and try to destroy a fundamental human attribute you'll never destroy.

[

Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Young Americans are abandoning God in droves.

A new survey by the Pew Research Center finds that belief in the existence of God has dropped 15 points in the last five years among Americans 30 and under.

Pew, which has been studying the trend for 25 years, finds that just 68 percent of millenials in 2012 agree with the statement “I never doubt the existence of God.” That’s down from 76 percent in 2009 and 83 percent in 2007.

Still sure god is here to stay?

83% in 07
76% in 09
68% in 2012.

Will it be only 50% in 2016?

 

[Boss]

Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Young Americans are abandoning God in droves.

A new survey by the Pew Research Center finds that belief in the existence of God has dropped 15 points in the last five years among Americans 30 and under.

Pew, which has been studying the trend for 25 years, finds that just 68 percent of millenials in 2012 agree with the statement “I never doubt the existence of God.” That’s down from 76 percent in 2009 and 83 percent in 2007.

Still sure god is here to stay?

83% in 07
76% in 09
68% in 2012.

Will it be only 50% in 2016?

Well okay, but what you are doing is making some bold assumptions based on an ambiguous question. You are trying to say that people who have admitted they may have sometimes doubted existence of God are non-spiritual and don't believe in God. So you are making assumptions the question did not ask or infer.

The same research group can ask the question "do you believe in a power greater than self?" and they get a totally different result... ~90% say they do, whether millennial or not. And I think I am being generous here, if I'm not mistaken the number is more like 92%.

Do people sometimes doubt God exists? Sure... especially the young and stupid!

 

[Slyhunter]

Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Young Americans are abandoning God in droves.

A new survey by the Pew Research Center finds that belief in the existence of God has dropped 15 points in the last five years among Americans 30 and under.

Pew, which has been studying the trend for 25 years, finds that just 68 percent of millenials in 2012 agree with the statement “I never doubt the existence of God.” That’s down from 76 percent in 2009 and 83 percent in 2007.

Still sure god is here to stay?

83% in 07
76% in 09
68% in 2012.

Will it be only 50% in 2016?

Well okay, but what you are doing is making some bold assumptions based on an ambiguous question. You are trying to say that people who have admitted they may have sometimes doubted existence of God are non-spiritual and don't believe in God. So you are making assumptions the question did not ask or infer.

The same research group can ask the question "do you believe in a power greater than self?" and they get a totally different result... ~90% say they do, whether millennial or not. And I think I am being generous here, if I'm not mistaken the number is more like 92%.

Do people sometimes doubt God exists? Sure... especially the young and stupid!

I believe the bible is a work of fiction.
The universe is big, there are probably more higher beings in existence somewhere.

 

[Boss]

I believe the bible is a work of fiction.
The universe is big, there are probably more higher beings in existence somewhere.

Good for you, but personal beliefs are anecdotal evidence.

 

[Slyhunter]

I believe the bible is a work of fiction.
The universe is big, there are probably more higher beings in existence somewhere.

Good for you, but personal beliefs are anecdotal evidence.

You have no proof the bible is the truth. And if the bible did speak the truth I would not want to follow the God of Israelites who went around destroying villages of people simply for not worshipping their God.

 

[Montrovant]

I believe the bible is a work of fiction.
The universe is big, there are probably more higher beings in existence somewhere.

Good for you, but personal beliefs are anecdotal evidence.

Of course, since almost every post by you in this thread is about your personal belief, it leads me to wonder why you seem to disparage someone else's anecdotal evidence.

 

[Montrovant]

I believe the bible is a work of fiction.
The universe is big, there are probably more higher beings in existence somewhere.

Good for you, but personal beliefs are anecdotal evidence.

You have no proof the bible is the truth. And if the bible did speak the truth I would not want to follow the God of Israelites who went around destroying villages of people simply for not worshipping their God.

Boss has said on multiple occasions he does not believe in the Bible. I disagree with almost every premise of his in this thread, but he has not claimed to be a Christian.

 

[Boss]

I believe the bible is a work of fiction.
The universe is big, there are probably more higher beings in existence somewhere.

Good for you, but personal beliefs are anecdotal evidence.

You have no proof the bible is the truth. And if the bible did speak the truth I would not want to follow the God of Israelites who went around destroying villages of people simply for not worshipping their God.

Perhaps you've missed the entirety of the thread, but I am not here arguing on behalf of the Bible. It's a great and wonderful book... the most published and widely read book of all time. It has some great lessons for living a good moral life and maintaining spiritual fidelity. Jesus was a great philosopher who had many beautiful things to say. But I am not a Christian and don't subscribe to Christian religion.

 

[Boss]

I believe the bible is a work of fiction.
The universe is big, there are probably more higher beings in existence somewhere.

Good for you, but personal beliefs are anecdotal evidence.

Of course, since almost every post by you in this thread is about your personal belief, it leads me to wonder why you seem to disparage someone else's anecdotal evidence.

Well it's because I don't believe in double standards.

 

[GISMYS]

Good for you, but personal beliefs are anecdotal evidence.

Of course, since almost every post by you in this thread is about your personal belief, it leads me to wonder why you seem to disparage someone else's anecdotal evidence.

Well it's because I don't believe in double standards.

What little man may or maynot believe CHANGES NO TRUTH but it will change your eternity!!

 

[sealybobo]

Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Young Americans are abandoning God in droves.

A new survey by the Pew Research Center finds that belief in the existence of God has dropped 15 points in the last five years among Americans 30 and under.

Pew, which has been studying the trend for 25 years, finds that just 68 percent of millenials in 2012 agree with the statement “I never doubt the existence of God.” That’s down from 76 percent in 2009 and 83 percent in 2007.

Still sure god is here to stay?

83% in 07
76% in 09
68% in 2012.

Will it be only 50% in 2016?

Well okay, but what you are doing is making some bold assumptions based on an ambiguous question. You are trying to say that people who have admitted they may have sometimes doubted existence of God are non-spiritual and don't believe in God. So you are making assumptions the question did not ask or infer.

The same research group can ask the question "do you believe in a power greater than self?" and they get a totally different result... ~90% say they do, whether millennial or not. And I think I am being generous here, if I'm not mistaken the number is more like 92%.

Do people sometimes doubt God exists? Sure... especially the young and stupid!

No it is YOU who makes a lot of assumptions. 1 that kids are stupid. I say if they are questioning religions more they are more intelligent than their parents who believed without question.

2 you assume society will decay without religion and that decay will be because of a lack of faith. I say parents who have jobs and raise their kids in a 2 parent home will raise good citizens without god. Many do. In fact more and more people every day. You can't show me that crime is happening because people don't believe in god but you can show me where chrstians commit crimes because they are desperate. Sure people who are strict chrstians won't get abortions or have sex before marriage but most people aren't strict christians. Anyways, I don't buy it that lack of faith causes aids.

Oh, by the way, a lesbian black girl is here in my business right now. I asked her if she's religious and she said yes. Isn't she going to hell? So what she believes in a god? Does her belief prove anything?

I believe in a power greater than myself. It's called time. I can't beat it. Eventually I'm going to run out of it. I also believe in the sun. It is greater than me. I also think this entire planet is alive and we are killing it.

 

[sealybobo]

Belief in God Low Among Young Americans

Young Americans are abandoning God in droves.

A new survey by the Pew Research Center finds that belief in the existence of God has dropped 15 points in the last five years among Americans 30 and under.

Pew, which has been studying the trend for 25 years, finds that just 68 percent of millenials in 2012 agree with the statement “I never doubt the existence of God.” That’s down from 76 percent in 2009 and 83 percent in 2007.

Still sure god is here to stay?

83% in 07
76% in 09
68% in 2012.

Will it be only 50% in 2016?

Well okay, but what you are doing is making some bold assumptions based on an ambiguous question. You are trying to say that people who have admitted they may have sometimes doubted existence of God are non-spiritual and don't believe in God. So you are making assumptions the question did not ask or infer.

The same research group can ask the question "do you believe in a power greater than self?" and they get a totally different result... ~90% say they do, whether millennial or not. And I think I am being generous here, if I'm not mistaken the number is more like 92%.

Do people sometimes doubt God exists? Sure... especially the young and stupid!

I believe the bible is a work of fiction.
The universe is big, there are probably more higher beings in existence somewhere.

Last week it dawned on me the entire christian/jewish religions are started with a lie. For years my family and church brainwashed me and told me the story of adam and eve and they said it was a real story. When they could no longer continue that lie, they now say it's a story to send a message? So it isn't true? Noah's story isn't really true? The entire thing is a lie.

We don't know who invented religion but we know that the kings/pharoahs/churches used it from as far back as we can remember to control the sheep.

Sure there might be other life forms out there. Why do they have to be gods? The closest planet to us is 80,000 light years away. As advance as they might be they probably haven't and can't make it to us just like we can't make it to them.

And the chances are if there is life somewhere else it's probably not as smart as humans. We were a fluke.

Complexity does not imply design and does not prove the existence of a god. Even if design could be established we cannot conclude anything about the nature of the designer (Aliens?). Furthermore, many biological systems have obvious defects consistent with the predictions of evolution by means of natural selection.

The appearance of complexity and order in the universe is the result of spontaneous self-organisation and pattern formation, caused by chaotic feedback between simple physical laws and rules. All the complexity of the universe, all its apparent richness, even life itself, arises from simple, mindless rules repeated over and over again for billions of years. Current scientific theories are able to clearly explain how complexity and order arise in physical systems. Any lack of understanding does not immediately imply ‘god’.

The standard of evidence required to prove a god’s existence is immediately more than any personal anecdote, witness testimony, ancient book or reported miracle – none of which can be considered extraordinarily reliable. The human mind is also highly susceptible to being fooled and even fooling itself. One could be suffering from an hallucination or a form of undiagnosed schizophrenia, hysteria or psychosis, ruling out even our own senses as reliable evidence gathering mechanisms in this case. As strange as it sounds, misunderstood aliens might even be attempting to interact with us using extremely advanced technology.

Spiritual and religious experiences are not only inconsistent among individuals but are variably attributed to different gods, aliens, spirits, rituals, hallucinations, meditation etc. The fact that medical conditions and other natural processes [2] can induce these experiences is evidence they are produced by our brain.