Why do the God-haters persist?

[sealybobo]

In all it's various forms that have been tried, it accounts for over 150 million dead, and that number is growing. So yeah... kinda not good.

Free market American capitalism is responsible for creating more millionaires and billionaires than ANY system ever devised by mankind. NOTHING has ever been so successful. There is corruption in all systems, the difference in America is, the corrupted are caught, prosecuted and sent to prison. In your typical Marxist country, the corruption is seldom ever heard about because those who are the most corrupt, control the wealth AND the political power, including the media and justice system.
...Guess you must be out of ammo?

For you yes I am out of ammo and energy.

One more thing though. Back before Bush 2000, regulated capitalism worked just fine. Then the GOP deregulated capitalism and it blew up. Same thing caused the great depression.

Republicans like our economy going boom and bust every 10 years. Democrats like slow steady growth. The masses don't get fucked every 10 years with slow steady growth. FDR's New Deal lasted 70 years. Wasn't until Reagan and Bush started undoing the new deal that the middle class started disappearing.

Uhm... NO. Under Carter, we went through 4 years of Democrats regulating capitalism out the wazoo, mandatory price freezes, caps on trade, etc. Coupled with totally feckless and clueless foreign policy which allowed the Shah of Iran to be overthrown, ushering in the radical Islamic Fundie movement we're still dealing with today, and spiraling oil prices out of control, creating the "Carter Malaise." Reagan came in and DE-regulated capitalism, creating 30 years of peacetime prosperity and a record that still stands to this day for growth. Bush didn't deregulate anything that I am aware of. He grew the size of government more than the previous two Democrat presidents combined. He "compassionately" gave an across-the-board tax cut to every taxpayer, which was essentially economic stupidity. It didn't work to spur record-setting economic growth because it basically cancelled itself out. After 4 years of Bush, 8 years of Clinton, and 8 years of another Bush, they finally dismantled most of what Reagan had done, and the economy tanked. The buffoon in the White House now is more of an economic moron than those three combined. Except, I don't think he gives a shit about the economy, he is on a mission to destroy Capitalism so we can usher in New Age Marxism!

We're still living with FDR New Deal policies, which have us currently at $17.5 trillion in debt. Nothing has been done to make Social Security solvent, in fact, this idiot has pilfered over $800 billion from it to help pay for Obamacare, which is a complete and utter disaster.

But hey... NONE of this matters to liberal democrats because all that matters is "intent!" You intended to help folks... that's all that counts! We should just keep on voting for you regardless of how bad your policies fail because you have the best of intentions!

We wouldn't be in debt if the rich and powerful didn't want us in debt. The more we go into debt, the more they own us. Who owns the Federal Reserve? Private bankers?

And maybe we shouldn't have given all those tax breaks to the rich and corporations? Looks like clinton had a surplus and Bush made it impossible to pay down the debt. On purpose too because they want to use the debt to end ss and medicare. End the new deal. At least you admit it, sort of.

Listen, there is so much wrong with your revisionist history that to reply in full to you would make me sounds like a rambling lunitic. Your history isn't even close to reality.

Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts | Common Dreams

The New Deal produced the greatest middle class in human history. Of course the rich didn't like it so they've worked for years to destroy it.

Lets be honest boss. You want to end ss and medicare. Your party does. They won't admit that out loud but to them/you those are Marxist/socialist programs that you want to kill.

Anyways, I dislike you more and more as time goes on.

 

[sealybobo]

And stop trying to sucker me into politics boss. You can't debate rationally/logically/reasonably with a person who believes in fairy tales.

If I can't prove to you that the invisible man and the boogie man don't exist how do you think I'm going to convince you that it wasn't Carter or FDR's policies that caused......fuck off boss.

 

[Boss]

You made a claim that there were no atheist Native Americans. It is an unprovable claim. I disagree with making such a broad, all-encompassing claim.

It wasn't a claim. I was a statement of fact based on a study of Native American culture. You've tried to turn it into an unprovable claim by being your usual ridiculous self.

You say you don't know if the issue of atheism ever came up among Native Americans of the time, yet you claim to know what would have happened to someone expressing atheism. If it never came up, how could you know the reaction to it?

It's because I undertand their culture. You are unable to understand it because you apparently think all cultures must be like your own. I've tried to explain how "western" culture is different than Native American culture, but you want to be hard headed. You don't seem to get it. You think that Native Americans operated the same as other cultures you are familiar with, and they didn't. Where us European "western" culture people are ingrained with a sense of "self" and all our emphasis is on "self" ...from the Greek philosophies or Enlightenment, or whatever... the Native Americans held a completely different philosophy. Their culture was ingrained with a sense of belonging to the Great Spirit. Everything they did, everything they had, everything they lived for, all aspects of their entire life, revolved around the Great Spirit. Many of them sacrificed themselves and their families for nothing more than pleasing the Great Spirit, and considered it an honor to do so. A concept of "Atheism" in such a culture is non-existent. It's like saying you can't believe that some Christian somewhere doesn't believe in worshiping cows! The fact is, there aren't any Christian cow worshipers, you won't find any, and it doesn't matter what you believe.

I'm not trying to prove there were atheist Native Americans. I'm trying to say that claiming to know the personal beliefs of every individual person among millions is ridiculous. If you want to say most Native Americans had spiritual belief, fine. If you want to say the vast majority, fine. Nearly all, fine. However, it is impossible for you or anyone else to know whether or not any individual Native American might have lacked belief in god(s). There isn't even a consensus on the total number of people who lived here before European settlement, how could anyone possibly know the beliefs of each individual person? Particularly if those beliefs might have been held secret in fear of the consequences of openly stating them (assuming your claim about killing any atheists are true and true for all Native American societies)?

Again... I CAN say it because I understand their culture. I've read countless books about it. I have studied about Native Americans my whole life because it is a major part of my personal ancestry. Now, for the sake of trying to appease your ignorance, I tried to accept your premise that maybe there was some isolated nut in the bunch who, for whatever reason, mental defect or retardation, didn't subscribe to the tribal views on the Great Spirit. You tried to turn that back around on me and claim I admitted I was wrong... somehow! It's typical of the behavior we see from you regularly here.

You also seem to lump all Native Americans together in their religious beliefs. Weren't there some widely divergent beliefs among differing tribes or societies?

I'm not saying atheism was common amongst Native Americans. I'm just saying that based on all available evidence of human behavior, at least some people probably believed differently than the norms of society, and some of those may have been atheists.

They didn't have "religious" beliefs. There was no Native American religion. There were many tribes, and they all held deep spiritual connection which was the center of their culture. There were some variations with regard to how they perceived the Great Spirit. None of them were Atheists. Did some of them ever lose faith in the Great Spirit or think the Great Spirit had forsaken them? Probably so, especially when Jackson was marching them across the desert to their deaths... but they weren't Atheists.

 

[Boss]

And stop trying to sucker me into politics boss.

You're right... I've made enough of a fool out of you on science, math, history and God... no need to add to your embarrassment by schooling you in politics as well.

We wouldn't be in debt if the rich and powerful didn't want us in debt.

Bahahaahaha... You think capitalists, who make money from people buying their stuff... want YOU or anyone else to be poor and not have money to spend?

Looks like clinton had a surplus and Bush made it impossible to pay down the debt.

We still had a national debt under Clinton. The "surplus" you are referring to was the fiscal budget for the year, which was only a "surplus" because Congress changed the rules on what could be counted as the "general fund" and included the Social Security Trust Fund in that money, creating a surplus. There never WAS a surplus. It was an accounting gimmick which used CBO numbers forecasting 10-years out and speculating on the new latest Dot-com craze, which never materialized. Instead the Dot-com bubble burst, and all that imaginary surplus money went up in smoke because it never existed anyway.

On purpose too because they want to use the debt to end ss and medicare.

No one wants to end Social Security or Medicare. Responsible people in the GOP have worked on plans to reform the programs so they remain solvent instead of going tits up, which they are on course to do in about another decade if something isn't done. Democrats want to demagogue and turn it into a political football, while raiding the current funding to pay for their pet projects. I guess when it fucking goes tits up, we'll hear how that was all the Republicans fault? Rich greedy bastards never wanted to fix it!

The New Deal produced the greatest middle class in human history. Of course the rich didn't like it so they've worked for years to destroy it.

Again, MORON... RICH people are capitalists who make money selling shit to you! How the hell does it HELP them for YOU to not have money? How are they supposed to make profits and keep being rich if you don't have any money to buy what they're selling?

You people are not very bright.

 

[Boss]

And really, silly boob? Commondreams.org? Was the Commies-R-Us.org website down or something?

 

[sealybobo]

And really, silly boob? Commondreams.org? Was the Commies-R-Us.org website down or something?

Don't expect any of the sites you go to to tell you the truth.

And no, I find so much wrong with everything you have said today and in the past I wouldn't even know where to begin. AND, I know none of it will make a bit of difference with you so no refuse to get sucked in. I was going to but then I changed my mind. It would be a waste of my time. You clearly have a right wing version of history and reality. The best we can do is agree to disagree.

You didn't school anyone. I just can't waste my time with people who believe in fairytales and also doesn't understand that class warfare exists or that he is losing.

I'd be better off to just wait 10 years for you to die. God told me you'd be dead in 10 years or less.

 

[Montrovant]

You made a claim that there were no atheist Native Americans. It is an unprovable claim. I disagree with making such a broad, all-encompassing claim.

It wasn't a claim. I was a statement of fact based on a study of Native American culture. You've tried to turn it into an unprovable claim by being your usual ridiculous self.

You say you don't know if the issue of atheism ever came up among Native Americans of the time, yet you claim to know what would have happened to someone expressing atheism. If it never came up, how could you know the reaction to it?

It's because I undertand their culture. You are unable to understand it because you apparently think all cultures must be like your own. I've tried to explain how "western" culture is different than Native American culture, but you want to be hard headed. You don't seem to get it. You think that Native Americans operated the same as other cultures you are familiar with, and they didn't. Where us European "western" culture people are ingrained with a sense of "self" and all our emphasis is on "self" ...from the Greek philosophies or Enlightenment, or whatever... the Native Americans held a completely different philosophy. Their culture was ingrained with a sense of belonging to the Great Spirit. Everything they did, everything they had, everything they lived for, all aspects of their entire life, revolved around the Great Spirit. Many of them sacrificed themselves and their families for nothing more than pleasing the Great Spirit, and considered it an honor to do so. A concept of "Atheism" in such a culture is non-existent. It's like saying you can't believe that some Christian somewhere doesn't believe in worshiping cows! The fact is, there aren't any Christian cow worshipers, you won't find any, and it doesn't matter what you believe.

I'm not trying to prove there were atheist Native Americans. I'm trying to say that claiming to know the personal beliefs of every individual person among millions is ridiculous. If you want to say most Native Americans had spiritual belief, fine. If you want to say the vast majority, fine. Nearly all, fine. However, it is impossible for you or anyone else to know whether or not any individual Native American might have lacked belief in god(s). There isn't even a consensus on the total number of people who lived here before European settlement, how could anyone possibly know the beliefs of each individual person? Particularly if those beliefs might have been held secret in fear of the consequences of openly stating them (assuming your claim about killing any atheists are true and true for all Native American societies)?

Again... I CAN say it because I understand their culture. I've read countless books about it. I have studied about Native Americans my whole life because it is a major part of my personal ancestry. Now, for the sake of trying to appease your ignorance, I tried to accept your premise that maybe there was some isolated nut in the bunch who, for whatever reason, mental defect or retardation, didn't subscribe to the tribal views on the Great Spirit. You tried to turn that back around on me and claim I admitted I was wrong... somehow! It's typical of the behavior we see from you regularly here.

You also seem to lump all Native Americans together in their religious beliefs. Weren't there some widely divergent beliefs among differing tribes or societies?

I'm not saying atheism was common amongst Native Americans. I'm just saying that based on all available evidence of human behavior, at least some people probably believed differently than the norms of society, and some of those may have been atheists.

They didn't have "religious" beliefs. There was no Native American religion. There were many tribes, and they all held deep spiritual connection which was the center of their culture. There were some variations with regard to how they perceived the Great Spirit. None of them were Atheists. Did some of them ever lose faith in the Great Spirit or think the Great Spirit had forsaken them? Probably so, especially when Jackson was marching them across the desert to their deaths... but they weren't Atheists.

It is a statement of fact? I think you may be using your own personal definition of the word again. Are there records of the beliefs of every individual Native American who lived at the time of European settlement? Did you know these people in order to speak to the beliefs of each individual among the millions? How then can you claim a statement about the beliefs of each individual is a statement of fact?

What do you consider Native American? I wonder if you put the Aztecs or Mayans or Inuit in the definition? Do you think they had the same basic spiritual or religious beliefs as the Iroquois, or the Apache, the Hopi, etc.?

You remind me of Ahmedinejad saying there are no homosexuals in Iran.

 

[sealybobo]

Wake up boss

"Do the Rich Even Need the Rest of America Anymore?" | naked capitalism

 

[sealybobo]

And stop trying to sucker me into politics boss.

You're right... I've made enough of a fool out of you on science, math, history and God... no need to add to your embarrassment by schooling you in politics as well.

We wouldn't be in debt if the rich and powerful didn't want us in debt.

Bahahaahaha... You think capitalists, who make money from people buying their stuff... want YOU or anyone else to be poor and not have money to spend?



We still had a national debt under Clinton. The "surplus" you are referring to was the fiscal budget for the year, which was only a "surplus" because Congress changed the rules on what could be counted as the "general fund" and included the Social Security Trust Fund in that money, creating a surplus. There never WAS a surplus. It was an accounting gimmick which used CBO numbers forecasting 10-years out and speculating on the new latest Dot-com craze, which never materialized. Instead the Dot-com bubble burst, and all that imaginary surplus money went up in smoke because it never existed anyway.

On purpose too because they want to use the debt to end ss and medicare.

No one wants to end Social Security or Medicare. Responsible people in the GOP have worked on plans to reform the programs so they remain solvent instead of going tits up, which they are on course to do in about another decade if something isn't done. Democrats want to demagogue and turn it into a political football, while raiding the current funding to pay for their pet projects. I guess when it fucking goes tits up, we'll hear how that was all the Republicans fault? Rich greedy bastards never wanted to fix it!

The New Deal produced the greatest middle class in human history. Of course the rich didn't like it so they've worked for years to destroy it.

Again, MORON... RICH people are capitalists who make money selling shit to you! How the hell does it HELP them for YOU to not have money? How are they supposed to make profits and keep being rich if you don't have any money to buy what they're selling?

You people are not very bright.

As stocks boomed, the wealthy bounced back. And while the Main Street economy was wracked by high unemployment and the real-estate crash, the wealthy–whose financial fates were more tied to capital markets than jobs and houses– picked themselves up, brushed themselves off and started buying luxury goods again.

Some argue that the rich no longer need the rest of America.

The wealthy increasingly earn their fortunes with overseas labor, selling to overseas consumers and managing financial transactions that have little to do with the rest of the U.S.

A member of the elite can make money from factories in China that sell to consumers in India, while relying entirely on immigrant servants at one of several homes around the country.

The financial crisis resulted in the greatest looting of the public purse in history. While the banksters were the obvious beneficiaries, most of the rest of the rich were carried along with them. The sudden recovery in the fortunes of the wealthy was no accident, but the result of a host of policies to prop up asset values.

All you have to look at is how the GOP are not interested in investing America. They don't want to invest in schools, infrastructure, NOTHING. So if the government isn't going to invest in America, why would corporations? Why not go to countries that are investing in their infrastructure like China?

Anyways, this is why us god haters persist. Boss clearly has a very deep understanding of history from a conservatives point of view. Its all lies and bullshit but still he really truly believes what he says and to be honest, if I didn't know any better his claims would sound legit. Fortunately I do know better.

 

[Boss]

It is a statement of fact? I think you may be using your own personal definition of the word again. Are there records of the beliefs of every individual Native American who lived at the time of European settlement? Did you know these people in order to speak to the beliefs of each individual among the millions? How then can you claim a statement about the beliefs of each individual is a statement of fact?

It is a statement of fact and I base that on a study of the culture. Nope, not using my definition. The records of every individual doesn't have to exist. You are entitled to believe otherwise, but you're wrong. I don't have to have spoken to each one, I know about their culture. These people we're talking about were literally NAMED after the spiritual. Is that point not sinking into that concrete-like head of yours? Their very IDENTITY came from the spiritual, and you are trying to claim some of them lacked spirituality. It's like trying to claim there are some radical Islamic fundamentalists who don't believe in Allah! Or that it's possible that SOME Popes might have been Atheists! You're off your fucking nut, man!

What do you consider Native American? I wonder if you put the Aztecs or Mayans or Inuit in the definition? Do you think they had the same basic spiritual or religious beliefs as the Iroquois, or the Apache, the Hopi, etc.?

You remind me of Ahmedinejad saying there are no homosexuals in Iran.

I have not studied about Mayans or Inuits, so I can't tell you about them. When I say "Native American" (an offensive term to some of us, btw) I am referring to the indigenous peoples of what is now considered the continental United States.

And I don't know about Armordinnerjacket, but I wouldn't imagine being gay in Iran is very pleasant.

 

[Boss]

As stocks boomed, the wealthy bounced back. And while the Main Street economy was wracked by high unemployment and the real-estate crash, the wealthy–whose financial fates were more tied to capital markets than jobs and houses– picked themselves up, brushed themselves off and started buying luxury goods again.

The wealthy increasingly earn their fortunes with overseas labor, selling to overseas consumers and managing financial transactions that have little to do with the rest of the U.S.

A member of the elite can make money from factories in China that sell to consumers in India, while relying entirely on immigrant servants at one of several homes around the country.

Oh, the rich are always going to find ways to earn more wealth, it's kinda what they do. Like you can always find a way to blame Republicans for your plight in life and whine and moan about how you need more government handouts.... it's what you do!

That said, the rich would much rather invest in American companies and provide jobs to American consumers where they will sell their products to them and avoid the pitfalls of unstable governments and wars or whatnot. They make a lot more profit when they can keep their investments at home, but if the government and you libs are going to wage all out war on them and make it impossible for them to earn profits here, they'll do it elsewhere. Push comes to shove, they don't HAVE to make profits at all... they're rich, remember? They can live the rest of their lives on the wealth they have, and still leave enough to their families that they won't ever have to work either.

So we've had 5.5 years of your liberal war on the rich, doing all these things to stifle capitalist growth and punish the wealthy.... how's that plan working out for ya? 30% of the black people in America are unemployed, more people on food stamps that any time in history. Is it working? Are you helping this so-called "middle class" any? Maybe you're keeping the rich from getting richer? Nope... that's not happening either.

Some argue that the rich no longer need the rest of America.

Nonsense. Are they going to polish their own yachts? Change the tires on their own limo? Do the mechanic work on their own jets? Mow their own grass at their mansions? Where are they supposed to go to get a decent steak dinner? Who's going to do their hair, manicures, pedicures, run the trendy shops they like to frequent? Where are they going to play golf at? What if they need a new TV or car, who's going to sell it to them? Where are they going to buy their groceries and toilet paper? Who's going to clean out the septic tank? Who's going to run the country club? Who's going to run the liquor store? Who's going to do their taxes, handle their investment, trade their stocks, keep their books, handle their legal matters? LOTS of things out there the rich folk need the rest of America to do!

The financial crisis resulted in the greatest looting of the public purse in history. While the banksters were the obvious beneficiaries, most of the rest of the rich were carried along with them. The sudden recovery in the fortunes of the wealthy was no accident, but the result of a host of policies to prop up asset values.

You're as full of shit as a Christmas turkey. Banks benefited because your liberal representatives thought it was a peachy idea to bail them out.... TOO BIG TO FAIL! But the problems started with your liberal asswipe representatives who passed low interest loan guarantees for poor folks to buy homes, so I guess they kind of felt obligated.

All you have to look at is how the GOP are not interested in investing America. They don't want to invest in schools, infrastructure, NOTHING. So if the government isn't going to invest in America, why would corporations? Why not go to countries that are investing in their infrastructure like China?

We can't afford to keep building goddamn schools! We don't have any money to invest, it's all been spent! We're borrowing a trillion dollars a year from Communist China, just to keep the goddamn lights on! Your president has already spent over $2 trillion on supposed "infrastructure" that never did materialize! It mostly went to his rat bastard campaign donors and special interest groups. Or people like Solyndra, who took the damn money and promptly filed bankruptcy. So no.... we can't afford any more of that kind of shit!

Anyways, this is why us god haters persist. Boss clearly has a very deep understanding of history from a conservatives point of view. Its all lies and bullshit but still he really truly believes what he says and to be honest, if I didn't know any better his claims would sound legit. Fortunately I do know better.

No, you clearly DO NOT know better. You are clearly an idiot on a myriad of topics.

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

After well over four-thousand responses to the original post, I'm very much a late poster to the debate. Anyway, as an atheist I cannot hate what I, in my heart, don't believe exists in the first place, whether such deities of the Hindus, or the single deity of the Abrahamic religion, or others. So, I would have to be classified as a non-hater when it comes to any and all deities.
Ultimately, the problem isn't believing in all-knowing, all-powerful...and invisible, deities (which if one really analyzed that concept logically and thoroughly, would dump such thoughts). Any hatred stems from seeing and experiencing people acting on the belief that they have, because of their belief, some right to dictate how I and others who don't believe, live our lives.
Throughout my childhood and into my teen years, I was forced to attend religious services and bible shools. My belief was irrelevant. When I joined the military, attending church services in recruit training was mandatory. This notion that because you believe in this fictitious creature, should never mean you are forced to follow it.
My dislike of religious types is that they are always trying to shove it down our throats, whether we want it or not. One just has to look at the constant attempts to get religion back into our public shools where a myriad of children have different beliefs, or non-beliefs. What someone worships or doesn't worship is none of the religious types business. So, my hatred isn't to non-existent deities, it's towards the worshippers.

 

[sealybobo]

As stocks boomed, the wealthy bounced back. And while the Main Street economy was wracked by high unemployment and the real-estate crash, the wealthy–whose financial fates were more tied to capital markets than jobs and houses– picked themselves up, brushed themselves off and started buying luxury goods again.

The wealthy increasingly earn their fortunes with overseas labor, selling to overseas consumers and managing financial transactions that have little to do with the rest of the U.S.

A member of the elite can make money from factories in China that sell to consumers in India, while relying entirely on immigrant servants at one of several homes around the country.

Oh, the rich are always going to find ways to earn more wealth, it's kinda what they do. Like you can always find a way to blame Republicans for your plight in life and whine and moan about how you need more government handouts.... it's what you do!

That said, the rich would much rather invest in American companies and provide jobs to American consumers where they will sell their products to them and avoid the pitfalls of unstable governments and wars or whatnot. They make a lot more profit when they can keep their investments at home, but if the government and you libs are going to wage all out war on them and make it impossible for them to earn profits here, they'll do it elsewhere. Push comes to shove, they don't HAVE to make profits at all... they're rich, remember? They can live the rest of their lives on the wealth they have, and still leave enough to their families that they won't ever have to work either.

So we've had 5.5 years of your liberal war on the rich, doing all these things to stifle capitalist growth and punish the wealthy.... how's that plan working out for ya? 30% of the black people in America are unemployed, more people on food stamps that any time in history. Is it working? Are you helping this so-called "middle class" any? Maybe you're keeping the rich from getting richer? Nope... that's not happening either.

Some argue that the rich no longer need the rest of America.

Nonsense. Are they going to polish their own yachts? Change the tires on their own limo? Do the mechanic work on their own jets? Mow their own grass at their mansions? Where are they supposed to go to get a decent steak dinner? Who's going to do their hair, manicures, pedicures, run the trendy shops they like to frequent? Where are they going to play golf at? What if they need a new TV or car, who's going to sell it to them? Where are they going to buy their groceries and toilet paper? Who's going to clean out the septic tank? Who's going to run the country club? Who's going to run the liquor store? Who's going to do their taxes, handle their investment, trade their stocks, keep their books, handle their legal matters? LOTS of things out there the rich folk need the rest of America to do!



You're as full of shit as a Christmas turkey. Banks benefited because your liberal representatives thought it was a peachy idea to bail them out.... TOO BIG TO FAIL! But the problems started with your liberal asswipe representatives who passed low interest loan guarantees for poor folks to buy homes, so I guess they kind of felt obligated.

All you have to look at is how the GOP are not interested in investing America. They don't want to invest in schools, infrastructure, NOTHING. So if the government isn't going to invest in America, why would corporations? Why not go to countries that are investing in their infrastructure like China?

We can't afford to keep building goddamn schools! We don't have any money to invest, it's all been spent! We're borrowing a trillion dollars a year from Communist China, just to keep the goddamn lights on! Your president has already spent over $2 trillion on supposed "infrastructure" that never did materialize! It mostly went to his rat bastard campaign donors and special interest groups. Or people like Solyndra, who took the damn money and promptly filed bankruptcy. So no.... we can't afford any more of that kind of shit!

Anyways, this is why us god haters persist. Boss clearly has a very deep understanding of history from a conservatives point of view. Its all lies and bullshit but still he really truly believes what he says and to be honest, if I didn't know any better his claims would sound legit. Fortunately I do know better.

No, you clearly DO NOT know better. You are clearly an idiot on a myriad of topics.

I don't even read your posts anymore. Or I read the first paragraph and it is so far off base I simply stop reading. So you wasted all your time writing that because I didn't even read it.

Type me some more bullshit so I can NOT read it.

God doesn't exist. That's all.

 

[sealybobo]

After well over four-thousand responses to the original post, I'm very much a late poster to the debate. Anyway, as an atheist I cannot hate what I, in my heart, don't believe exists in the first place, whether such deities of the Hindus, or the single deity of the Abrahamic religion, or others. So, I would have to be classified as a non-hater when it comes to any and all deities.
Ultimately, the problem isn't believing in all-knowing, all-powerful...and invisible, deities (which if one really analyzed that concept logically and thoroughly, would dump such thoughts). Any hatred stems from seeing and experiencing people acting on the belief that they have, because of their belief, some right to dictate how I and others who don't believe, live our lives.
Throughout my childhood and into my teen years, I was forced to attend religious services and bible shools. My belief was irrelevant. When I joined the military, attending church services in recruit training was mandatory. This notion that because you believe in this fictitious creature, should never mean you are forced to follow it.
My dislike of religious types is that they are always trying to shove it down our throats, whether we want it or not. One just has to look at the constant attempts to get religion back into our public shools where a myriad of children have different beliefs, or non-beliefs. What someone worships or doesn't worship is none of the religious types business. So, my hatred isn't to non-existent deities, it's towards the worshippers.

Great post. I don't hate god. He doesn't exist. I hate religious people for being so stupid.

 

[Boss]

After well over four-thousand responses to the original post, I'm very much a late poster to the debate. Anyway, as an atheist I cannot hate what I, in my heart, don't believe exists in the first place, whether such deities of the Hindus, or the single deity of the Abrahamic religion, or others. So, I would have to be classified as a non-hater when it comes to any and all deities.
Ultimately, the problem isn't believing in all-knowing, all-powerful...and invisible, deities (which if one really analyzed that concept logically and thoroughly, would dump such thoughts). Any hatred stems from seeing and experiencing people acting on the belief that they have, because of their belief, some right to dictate how I and others who don't believe, live our lives.
Throughout my childhood and into my teen years, I was forced to attend religious services and bible shools. My belief was irrelevant. When I joined the military, attending church services in recruit training was mandatory. This notion that because you believe in this fictitious creature, should never mean you are forced to follow it.
My dislike of religious types is that they are always trying to shove it down our throats, whether we want it or not. One just has to look at the constant attempts to get religion back into our public shools where a myriad of children have different beliefs, or non-beliefs. What someone worships or doesn't worship is none of the religious types business. So, my hatred isn't to non-existent deities, it's towards the worshippers.

Thanks for your input, but you are not the first person who has taken this angle. There have been several who've admitted they don't hate God, just the followers of God. In each case, it seems to be that you don't like followers of God having a political voice and 1st Amendment right to free speech or ability to petition for redress of grievances. You believe you should have those rights to promote whatever agenda you please, and no one should dare challenge your rights to do so. However, those rights shouldn't belong to an entire class of people, simply based on your perception and stereotype of them. Your bigotry and prejudice stems from your upbringing and life experience, which you think justifies your viewpoint.

You claim that you don't think it is logical to believe in something invisible. Does this mean we can conclude that you don't believe in Love, Forgiveness, Benevolence, Respect? What about things like Time, Space, Gravity, or a nice ocean breeze? You don't believe those exist? How about your thoughts or emotions, dreams and ambitions? Can you tell me the material physical makeup of any of these things? Logically you can, or you can't believe in them, right?

No one that I am aware of has ever told anyone how to worship in this country. With Christianity in particular, it's impossible for you to ever be forced to be a Christian against your will. It is a religion of acceptance, meaning you must first accept that Christ is your savior. No matter how much Christians might want you to be one, unless you can fulfill that requirement, you cannot be a Christian. So again, your main problem, the main thing that really bugs you most, is your intolerance for the beliefs of others and a seething desire to restrict their ability to participate in political discourse. If we could silence those people and disenfranchise them from their constitutional rights, you'd be happy.

Again... thank you for that input!

 

[Montrovant]

It is a statement of fact? I think you may be using your own personal definition of the word again. Are there records of the beliefs of every individual Native American who lived at the time of European settlement? Did you know these people in order to speak to the beliefs of each individual among the millions? How then can you claim a statement about the beliefs of each individual is a statement of fact?

It is a statement of fact and I base that on a study of the culture. Nope, not using my definition. The records of every individual doesn't have to exist. You are entitled to believe otherwise, but you're wrong. I don't have to have spoken to each one, I know about their culture. These people we're talking about were literally NAMED after the spiritual. Is that point not sinking into that concrete-like head of yours? Their very IDENTITY came from the spiritual, and you are trying to claim some of them lacked spirituality. It's like trying to claim there are some radical Islamic fundamentalists who don't believe in Allah! Or that it's possible that SOME Popes might have been Atheists! You're off your fucking nut, man!

What do you consider Native American? I wonder if you put the Aztecs or Mayans or Inuit in the definition? Do you think they had the same basic spiritual or religious beliefs as the Iroquois, or the Apache, the Hopi, etc.?

You remind me of Ahmedinejad saying there are no homosexuals in Iran.

I have not studied about Mayans or Inuits, so I can't tell you about them. When I say "Native American" (an offensive term to some of us, btw) I am referring to the indigenous peoples of what is now considered the continental United States.

And I don't know about Armordinnerjacket, but I wouldn't imagine being gay in Iran is very pleasant.

It would be more like saying that someone living in a radical Islamic fundamentalist country must be Islamic; that there cannot be atheists living in such a place.

I don't know what term you would consider non-offensive if you don't like Native American. Although I wonder why you now put it in quotes and call it offensive when you've used it multiple times in the thread. American Indian? Indigenous people?

 

[sealybobo]

After well over four-thousand responses to the original post, I'm very much a late poster to the debate. Anyway, as an atheist I cannot hate what I, in my heart, don't believe exists in the first place, whether such deities of the Hindus, or the single deity of the Abrahamic religion, or others. So, I would have to be classified as a non-hater when it comes to any and all deities.
Ultimately, the problem isn't believing in all-knowing, all-powerful...and invisible, deities (which if one really analyzed that concept logically and thoroughly, would dump such thoughts). Any hatred stems from seeing and experiencing people acting on the belief that they have, because of their belief, some right to dictate how I and others who don't believe, live our lives.
Throughout my childhood and into my teen years, I was forced to attend religious services and bible shools. My belief was irrelevant. When I joined the military, attending church services in recruit training was mandatory. This notion that because you believe in this fictitious creature, should never mean you are forced to follow it.
My dislike of religious types is that they are always trying to shove it down our throats, whether we want it or not. One just has to look at the constant attempts to get religion back into our public shools where a myriad of children have different beliefs, or non-beliefs. What someone worships or doesn't worship is none of the religious types business. So, my hatred isn't to non-existent deities, it's towards the worshippers.

In reply to boss:

We cant see or measure wind but science can.

Okay -- so what measurable, repeatable, falsifiable qualities does his Invisible Sky Daddy have?

Wind is moving air and love is neurochemistry. Both can be demonstrated and measured, and neither requires a suspension of the laws of physics.

How do you know what you claim to feel is not a product of your own mind?

To put it another way, if wind stopped we would notice it (trees stationary, clouds not moving, water still, etc.); if love stopped we would notice it (people feeling no affection for one another). What would we notice if God suddenly went away?

Nothing, because god doesn't even exist and still people believe.

And Boss can't see that this lie we tell our children is seriously dumbing down the population and seriously holding us back.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140124050528AAzqz4a

And sometimes boss claims that this god is much bigger than any human can imagine, which if there were a god I would agree. But then sometimes he seems to believe he has a relationship with god, god protects him and there is a heaven.

I can't stand reading his posts anymore so I wish you luck.

 

[BreezeWood]

After well over four-thousand responses to the original post, I'm very much a late poster to the debate. Anyway, as an atheist I cannot hate what I, in my heart, don't believe exists in the first place, whether such deities of the Hindus, or the single deity of the Abrahamic religion, or others. So, I would have to be classified as a non-hater when it comes to any and all deities.
Ultimately, the problem isn't believing in all-knowing, all-powerful...and invisible, deities (which if one really analyzed that concept logically and thoroughly, would dump such thoughts). Any hatred stems from seeing and experiencing people acting on the belief that they have, because of their belief, some right to dictate how I and others who don't believe, live our lives.
Throughout my childhood and into my teen years, I was forced to attend religious services and bible shools. My belief was irrelevant. When I joined the military, attending church services in recruit training was mandatory. This notion that because you believe in this fictitious creature, should never mean you are forced to follow it.
My dislike of religious types is that they are always trying to shove it down our throats, whether we want it or not. One just has to look at the constant attempts to get religion back into our public shools where a myriad of children have different beliefs, or non-beliefs. What someone worships or doesn't worship is none of the religious types business. So, my hatred isn't to non-existent deities, it's towards the worshippers.

Thanks for your input, but you are not the first person who has taken this angle. There have been several who've admitted they don't hate God, just the followers of God. In each case, it seems to be that you don't like followers of God having a political voice and 1st Amendment right to free speech or ability to petition for redress of grievances.[/B] You believe you should have those rights to promote whatever agenda you please, and no one should dare challenge your rights to do so. However, those rights shouldn't belong to an entire class of people, simply based on your perception and stereotype of them. Your bigotry and prejudice stems from your upbringing and life experience, which you think justifies your viewpoint.

You claim that you don't think it is logical to believe in something invisible. Does this mean we can conclude that you don't believe in Love, Forgiveness, Benevolence, Respect? What about things like Time, Space, Gravity, or a nice ocean breeze? You don't believe those exist? How about your thoughts or emotions, dreams and ambitions? Can you tell me the material physical makeup of any of these things? Logically you can, or you can't believe in them, right?

No one that I am aware of has ever told anyone how to worship in this country. With Christianity in particular, it's impossible for you to ever be forced to be a Christian against your will. It is a religion of acceptance, meaning you must first accept that Christ is your savior. No matter how much Christians might want you to be one, unless you can fulfill that requirement, you cannot be a Christian. So again, your main problem, the main thing that really bugs you most, is your intolerance for the beliefs of others and a seething desire to restrict their ability to participate in political discourse. If we could silence those people and disenfranchise them from their constitutional rights, you'd be happy.

Again... thank you for that input!

... followers of God -


cry us a river bossy ...

.

 

[sealybobo]

It is a statement of fact? I think you may be using your own personal definition of the word again. Are there records of the beliefs of every individual Native American who lived at the time of European settlement? Did you know these people in order to speak to the beliefs of each individual among the millions? How then can you claim a statement about the beliefs of each individual is a statement of fact?

It is a statement of fact and I base that on a study of the culture. Nope, not using my definition. The records of every individual doesn't have to exist. You are entitled to believe otherwise, but you're wrong. I don't have to have spoken to each one, I know about their culture. These people we're talking about were literally NAMED after the spiritual. Is that point not sinking into that concrete-like head of yours? Their very IDENTITY came from the spiritual, and you are trying to claim some of them lacked spirituality. It's like trying to claim there are some radical Islamic fundamentalists who don't believe in Allah! Or that it's possible that SOME Popes might have been Atheists! You're off your fucking nut, man!

What do you consider Native American? I wonder if you put the Aztecs or Mayans or Inuit in the definition? Do you think they had the same basic spiritual or religious beliefs as the Iroquois, or the Apache, the Hopi, etc.?

You remind me of Ahmedinejad saying there are no homosexuals in Iran.

I have not studied about Mayans or Inuits, so I can't tell you about them. When I say "Native American" (an offensive term to some of us, btw) I am referring to the indigenous peoples of what is now considered the continental United States.

And I don't know about Armordinnerjacket, but I wouldn't imagine being gay in Iran is very pleasant.

It would be more like saying that someone living in a radical Islamic fundamentalist country must be Islamic; that there cannot be atheists living in such a place.

I don't know what term you would consider non-offensive if you don't like Native American. Although I wonder why you now put it in quotes and call it offensive when you've used it multiple times in the thread. American Indian? Indigenous people?

To think that there weren't any Native American Indians that didn't believe in gods is the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life.

I wish he could go back and realize that except for all the technology and the language, people living back 200 or even 2000 years ago weren't all that much different than they are today. They laughed, got jealous, were superstitous, curious, afraid of the unknown, wanted to be safe and loved and financially secure.

And people are people. They will be pretty much the same 2000 years from now. I'm sure religion won't completely disappear but people won't be spewing that jesus or mohammad crap 2000 years from now. Those religions are as good as dead. Maybe in the middle east they have more control over the media and the masses so maybe they'll stay conservative a lot longer but that's just because they are so far behind us here in the West. In the west the Enlightenment Period has sort of put a knife in god(s) and given way to the future, science.

 

[BreezeWood]

Indiana marriage law is discriminatory, US court says in ruling for humanists - CSMonitor.com


Indiana marriage law is discriminatory, US court says in ruling for humanists


The three-judge panel ruled that Indiana’s marriage statute discriminated arbitrarily among religious and ethical beliefs, favoring certain religions over others and disfavoring members of humanist societies who wanted their marriages sanctified by someone holding the same beliefs.

The decision marks a significant victory for nonreligious Americans. The appeals court declared that the First Amendment mandates a neutrality principle under which states may not favor or disfavor religion when compared with similar secular belief systems.

The appeals court declared that the First Amendment mandates a neutrality principle under which states may not favor or disfavor religion when compared with similar secular belief systems.


anotherwords, the "Followers of God" may do so only as a discretion of their personal beliefs as embedded by the First Amendment, U S Constitution.

.