Why do the God-haters persist?

[Boss]

It wasn't just religions.

That argument wasn't made. Sorry.

 

[Boss]

Do you think they exclusively targeted people of faith?

Again, not something that was ever argued. Keep up with the conversation and stop trying to change the subject. They were atheists who didn't believe in God, whether they fed babies into woodchippers or not, is completely irrelevant.

 

[thebrucebeat]

"
"There are some statistics that atheists love to repeat. One of them is this: “About 8-16% of America’s population are atheists, but only 0.21% of the prison population are.”
"This page is apparently their source for that. It gives the numbers for prison inmates, and their reported religious groupings, on 5 March 1997. (I wonder why do no atheist ever mention a more recent study? Is this particular 11-year old study the one with results that best match their agenda?)
"But wait a minute. These numbers apparently also say that 19,7% of the prisoners population chose not to answer this question, or was perhaps not asked, or perhaps just ticked a box named “other religious view” without naming their view in it. Now, the prisoners that were not asked are probably not much different from anyone else. We do not know how many of those were numbered in the sample.
"But the prisoners who chose not to answer? It make perfect sense that an atheist will be less likely to honestly answer that question. (It may indirectly affect his chances for parole, for instance.) And with a tick box for “Catholic” or “Muslim”, but none for atheist, it is likely that some atheists will be among those who just tick “other” without filling in the word atheist.
"The people who chose not to answer could, fairly speaking, include anything from absolutely no atheists at all to all atheists, without exception. Atheists could, if these statistics were accurate, anything between 0,21% and 19,95% of the prison population in the USA. Since many (probably the mayority of) people who do not believe in God or the supernatural- fail to identify themselves with the label of “atheist”, you could assume their true number will be higher"

Lies, damned lies and atheists in prison | Looking around and trying to understand

So your big revelation is the statistic could be as low as .21% as stated or as high as nearly 20%. The vast, vast majority of inmates, no matter what you assume is true on that range, are people of faith.
What point did you THINK you were making?

 

[thebrucebeat]

Do you think they exclusively targeted people of faith?

Again, not something that was ever argued. Keep up with the conversation and stop trying to change the subject. They were atheists who didn't believe in God, whether they fed babies into woodchippers or not, is completely irrelevant.

What does that even mean?
You still think that atheism was an important issue to these despots?
It wasn't an issue at all.
Religion was simply one of many threats, all of which were not tolerated.
Academics were also targeted as threats.

 

[Boss]

The vast, vast majority of inmates, no matter what you assume is true on that range, are people of faith.

This is probably due to the fact that for all of recorded human history, humans have found solace and comfort in times of peril and struggle through their spiritual faith in something greater than self. Haven't you heard the expression, "there are no Atheists in foxholes?" When people face adversity they often turn to faith for strength and hope. I bet if we threw you in prison, it would take about a week for you to find your religion again.

You still think that atheism was an important issue to these despots?
It wasn't an issue at all.

It certainly was. This is assuming you comprehend Atheism is the belief in no God. Now you can CLAIM they didn't care about Atheism, and they didn't run around on a crusade denouncing God like you and oromoron do, they simply executed those who believed in a God and didn't allow religion. And YES, it was paramount to their success of Marxist Utopian Totalitarianism. To try and attempt to skate around this is just plain ignorant.

 

[orogenicman]

"
"There are some statistics that atheists love to repeat. One of them is this: “About 8-16% of America’s population are atheists, but only 0.21% of the prison population are.”
"This page is apparently their source for that. It gives the numbers for prison inmates, and their reported religious groupings, on 5 March 1997. (I wonder why do no atheist ever mention a more recent study? Is this particular 11-year old study the one with results that best match their agenda?)
"But wait a minute. These numbers apparently also say that 19,7% of the prisoners population chose not to answer this question, or was perhaps not asked, or perhaps just ticked a box named “other religious view” without naming their view in it. Now, the prisoners that were not asked are probably not much different from anyone else. We do not know how many of those were numbered in the sample.
"But the prisoners who chose not to answer? It make perfect sense that an atheist will be less likely to honestly answer that question. (It may indirectly affect his chances for parole, for instance.) And with a tick box for “Catholic” or “Muslim”, but none for atheist, it is likely that some atheists will be among those who just tick “other” without filling in the word atheist.
"The people who chose not to answer could, fairly speaking, include anything from absolutely no atheists at all to all atheists, without exception. Atheists could, if these statistics were accurate, anything between 0,21% and 19,95% of the prison population in the USA. Since many (probably the mayority of) people who do not believe in God or the supernatural- fail to identify themselves with the label of “atheist”, you could assume their true number will be higher"

Lies, damned lies and atheists in prison | Looking around and trying to understand

So what you are saying is that prisons discriminate against atheists and keep them imprisoned longer than Christians simply for the fact that they are atheists, and that that is why according to your logic, there are more atheists in prison than the statistics show. Now, having stated your claim, do you have any evidence that this is actually true? How many atheist inmates have filed discrimination lawsuits against the prison system for such actions? Has there been even one such lawsuit? Now, I noticed that you didn't answer my earlier question so I will repeat it. How many Christians such as yourself keep kosher, kosher girl?

 

[orogenicman]

The vast, vast majority of inmates, no matter what you assume is true on that range, are people of faith.

This is probably due to the fact that for all of recorded human history, humans have found solace and comfort in times of peril and struggle through their spiritual faith in something greater than self. Haven't you heard the expression, "there are no Atheists in foxholes?" When people face adversity they often turn to faith for strength and hope. I bet if we threw you in prison, it would take about a week for you to find your religion again.

You still think that atheism was an important issue to these despots?
It wasn't an issue at all.

It certainly was. This is assuming you comprehend Atheism is the belief in no God. Now you can CLAIM they didn't care about Atheism, and they didn't run around on a crusade denouncing God like you and oromoron do, they simply executed those who believed in a God and didn't allow religion. And YES, it was paramount to their success of Marxist Utopian Totalitarianism. To try and attempt to skate around this is just plain ignorant.

The fact is that they didn't kill off all religionists, particularly in Russia. In fact, Russia is largely orthodox, and has been for centuries. Bruce is correct that the issue was not religion. The issue was squelching all opposition to the regimes.

 

[thebrucebeat]

The vast, vast majority of inmates, no matter what you assume is true on that range, are people of faith.

This is probably due to the fact that for all of recorded human history, humans have found solace and comfort in times of peril and struggle through their spiritual faith in something greater than self. Haven't you heard the expression, "there are no Atheists in foxholes?" When people face adversity they often turn to faith for strength and hope. I bet if we threw you in prison, it would take about a week for you to find your religion again.

You still think that atheism was an important issue to these despots?
It wasn't an issue at all.

It certainly was. This is assuming you comprehend Atheism is the belief in no God. Now you can CLAIM they didn't care about Atheism, and they didn't run around on a crusade denouncing God like you and oromoron do, they simply executed those who believed in a God and didn't allow religion. And YES, it was paramount to their success of Marxist Utopian Totalitarianism. To try and attempt to skate around this is just plain ignorant.

Congratulations!!!
You just made the argument I made to you more than once, that you fought so hard against.
People are drawn to faith out of fear, out of hardship, out of a need for solace.
Exactly!!!
See the red part of your post.
You nailed it!!!
It isn't an inate sense of spirituality, it is the cure for fear.
Well done, my friend.
Wisdom may come slowly, but it's coming.

As for Marxism, what was paramount to success was a lack of detractors, of any stripe. The religious were one, but only one, potential threat to their absolute dominance of paradigm.
To call them an atheist regime makes as much sense as saying they were an anti-academic regime. While true, it doesn't define the movement in the grand sense. It is an element. The more inclusive view is they sought cognitive dominance at any price.

 

[Hollie]

The vast, vast majority of inmates, no matter what you assume is true on that range, are people of faith.

This is probably due to the fact that for all of recorded human history, humans have found solace and comfort in times of peril and struggle through their spiritual faith in something greater than self. Haven't you heard the expression, "there are no Atheists in foxholes?" When people face adversity they often turn to faith for strength and hope. I bet if we threw you in prison, it would take about a week for you to find your religion again.

You still think that atheism was an important issue to these despots?
It wasn't an issue at all.

It certainly was. This is assuming you comprehend Atheism is the belief in no God. Now you can CLAIM they didn't care about Atheism, and they didn't run around on a crusade denouncing God like you and oromoron do, they simply executed those who believed in a God and didn't allow religion. And YES, it was paramount to their success of Marxist Utopian Totalitarianism. To try and attempt to skate around this is just plain ignorant.

Congratulations!!!
You just made the argument I made to you more than once, that you fought so hard against.
People are drawn to faith out of fear, out of hardship, out of a need for solace.
Exactly!!!
See the red part of your post.
You nailed it!!!
It isn't an inate sense of spirituality, it is the cure for fear.
Well done, my friend.
Wisdom may come slowly, but it's coming.

As for Marxism, what was paramount to success was a lack of detractors, of any stripe. The religious were one, but only one, potential threat to their absolute dominance of paradigm.
To call them an atheist regime makes as much sense as saying they were an anti-academic regime. While true, it doesn't define the movement in the grand sense. It is an element. The more inclusive view is they sought cognitive dominance at any price.

Standing applause.

 

[BreezeWood]

Russian Orthodox Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Russian Orthodox Church

The year 1917 was a major turning point in Russian history, and also the Russian Orthodox Church.[11] The Russian empire was dissolved and the Tsarist government - which had granted the Church numerous privileges - was overthrown. After a few months of political turmoil, the Bolsheviks took power in October 1917 and declared a separation of church and state. Thus the Russian Orthodox Church found itself without official state backing for the first time in its history. One of the first decrees of the new Communist government (issued in January 1918) declared freedom from "religious and anti-religious propaganda". This led to a marked decline in the power and influence of the Church. The Church was also caught in the crossfire of the Russian Civil War that began later the same year, and many leaders of the Church supported what would ultimately turn out to be the losing side (the White movement).

just a snapshot of one particular event reflecting the Church / State relationship prominent at the turn of the 20th century and its causal effect and ensuing outcome -


... the Bolsheviks took power in October 1917 and declared a separation of church and state.

for anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of world history, knows this event had its first roots established by the 13 colonies that later became the United States of America.

.

 

[Boss]

The vast, vast majority of inmates, no matter what you assume is true on that range, are people of faith.

This is probably due to the fact that for all of recorded human history, humans have found solace and comfort in times of peril and struggle through their spiritual faith in something greater than self. Haven't you heard the expression, "there are no Atheists in foxholes?" When people face adversity they often turn to faith for strength and hope. I bet if we threw you in prison, it would take about a week for you to find your religion again.

You still think that atheism was an important issue to these despots?
It wasn't an issue at all.

It certainly was. This is assuming you comprehend Atheism is the belief in no God. Now you can CLAIM they didn't care about Atheism, and they didn't run around on a crusade denouncing God like you and oromoron do, they simply executed those who believed in a God and didn't allow religion. And YES, it was paramount to their success of Marxist Utopian Totalitarianism. To try and attempt to skate around this is just plain ignorant.

The fact is that they didn't kill off all religionists, particularly in Russia. In fact, Russia is largely orthodox, and has been for centuries. Bruce is correct that the issue was not religion. The issue was squelching all opposition to the regimes.

Russian Orthodox Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The year 1917 was a major turning point in Russian history, and also the Russian Orthodox Church.[11] The Russian empire was dissolved and the Tsarist government - which had granted the Church numerous privileges - was overthrown. After a few months of political turmoil, the Bolsheviks took power in October 1917 and declared a separation of church and state. Thus the Russian Orthodox Church found itself without official state backing for the first time in its history. One of the first decrees of the new Communist government (issued in January 1918) declared freedom from "religious and anti-religious propaganda". This led to a marked decline in the power and influence of the Church. The Church was also caught in the crossfire of the Russian Civil War that began later the same year, and many leaders of the Church supported what would ultimately turn out to be the losing side (the White movement).

The Russian Orthodox Church supported the White Army in the Russian Civil War (see White movement) after the October Revolution. This may have further strengthened the Bolshevik antipathy against the church. Actually as early as 1905, Lenin, leader of the Bolshevik party, berated religion in Novaya Zhizn in 1905 "... Religion is opium for the people. Religion is a sort of spiritual booze, in which the slaves of capital drown their human image, their demand for a life more or less worthy of man..."

Even before the end of the civil war and the establishment of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church came under pressure from the secular Communist government. The Soviet government stood on a platform of antireligion, viewing the church as a "counter-revolutionary" organization and an independent voice with a great influence in society. While the Soviet Union officially claimed religious tolerance, in practice the government discouraged organized religion and did much to remove religious influence from Soviet society.

After the October Revolution of November 7, 1917, the officially proclaimed objective of the Soviet Union was to unite all of the people of the world in a communist state free of "capitalist exploitation" (see Communist International). With such a view of the world any ethnic heritage closely tied to traditional religion and its clergy was targeted by Soviet authorities.[12][13]

The Soviet Union was the first state to have elimination of religion as an ideological objective. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in schools.

Thousands of churches and monasteries were taken over by the government and either destroyed or converted to secular use. It was impossible to build new churches. Practising Orthodox Christians were restricted from prominent careers and membership in communist organizations (the party, the Komsomol). Anti-religious propaganda was openly sponsored and encouraged by the government, which the Church was not given an opportunity to publicly respond to. The government youth organization, the Komsomol, encouraged its members to vandalize Orthodox Churches and harass worshippers. Seminaries were closed down, and the church was restricted from using the press.

In November 1917, following the collapse of the tsarist government, a council of the Russian Orthodox church reestablished the patriarchate and elected the metropolitan Tikhon, the former Metropolitan of All America and Canada, as patriarch. But the new Soviet government soon declared the separation of church and state and also nationalized all church-held lands. These administrative measures were followed by brutal state-sanctioned persecutions that included the wholesale destruction of churches, as well as the arrest and execution of many clerics.

Stalin era[edit]
The main target of the anti-religious campaign in the 1920s and 1930s was the Russian Orthodox Church, which had the largest congregation. Nearly all of its clergy, and many of its believers, were shot or sent to labor camps. Theological schools were closed, and church publications were prohibited.

...between 1927 and 1940, the number of Orthodox Churches in the Russian Republic fell from 29,584 to less than 500. Between 1917 and 1935, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested. Of these, 95,000 were put to death.

A new and widespread persecution of the church was subsequently instituted under the leadership of Nikita Khrushchev and Leonid Brezhnev. A second round of repression, harassment and church closures took place between 1959 and 1964 when Nikita Khrushchev was in office.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, the human spiritual faith prevailed even with tyrannic atheist communists doing their best to stomp it out of the hearts of man. To now formulate the argument that "atheism didn't matter" in light of what the history clearly shows, is total and complete ignorance.

 

[Boss]

Congratulations!!!
You just made the argument I made....

No I didn't you lying fucktard. I never said a thing about "FEAR!" Stop trying to harass me by misquoting what I've said and stick to the topic.

When people face adversity they often turn to faith for strength and hope.

Where is there ANY reference there to FEAR?

 

[thebrucebeat]

Congratulations!!!
You just made the argument I made....

No I didn't you lying fucktard. I never said a thing about "FEAR!" Stop trying to harass me by misquoting what I've said and stick to the topic.

When people face adversity they often turn to faith for strength and hope.

Where is there ANY reference there to FEAR?

"humans have found solace and comfort in times of peril and struggle..."

Maybe you made the case better with this line of yours.
LOL!!!
If you feel no fear during times of peril, you are Robocop.
Man, this one really embarrassed you! You flipped out good!
LOL!!!
And the hits just keep on coming!

 

[koshergrl]

God and a faithful heart alleviate misery.

Yet...we should reject them?

That makes no sense whatever. Embrace God and say goodbye to fear, anxiety and sorrow..why on earth wouldn't people choose God, given the alternative?

 

[Boss]

Congratulations!!!
You just made the argument I made....

No I didn't you lying fucktard. I never said a thing about "FEAR!" Stop trying to harass me by misquoting what I've said and stick to the topic.

When people face adversity they often turn to faith for strength and hope.

Where is there ANY reference there to FEAR?

"humans have found solace and comfort in times of peril and struggle..."

Maybe you made the case better with this line of yours.
LOL!!!
If you feel no fear during times of peril, you are Robocop.
Man, this one really embarrassed you! You flipped out good!
LOL!!!
And the hits just keep on coming!

Where did I say ANYTHING about FEAR? You are jumping to conclusions, attributing comments to me that I never made. Why the hell do you think I am embarrassed by you outright LYING about what I said? You're the one who should be embarrassed, here you've been caught in yet another lie you can't defend or justify. Just a pathetic little puss pocket who can't make an argument, can't make a point, can't even be honest in the simplest of discourse.

 

[BreezeWood]

The Soviet Union was the first state to have elimination of religion as an ideological objective. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in schools.

the Soviet Union was post WWII - Stalin

what is your point Boss, Stalin is simply the reverse reflection of your own agenda that promotes religious dogma by the same means of intimidation.

 

[thebrucebeat]

No I didn't you lying fucktard. I never said a thing about "FEAR!" Stop trying to harass me by misquoting what I've said and stick to the topic.

When people face adversity they often turn to faith for strength and hope.

Where is there ANY reference there to FEAR?

"humans have found solace and comfort in times of peril and struggle..."

Maybe you made the case better with this line of yours.
LOL!!!
If you feel no fear during times of peril, you are Robocop.
Man, this one really embarrassed you! You flipped out good!
LOL!!!
And the hits just keep on coming!

Where did I say ANYTHING about FEAR? You are jumping to conclusions, attributing comments to me that I never made. Why the hell do you think I am embarrassed by you outright LYING about what I said? You're the one who should be embarrassed, here you've been caught in yet another lie you can't defend or justify. Just a pathetic little puss pocket who can't make an argument, can't make a point, can't even be honest in the simplest of discourse.

No.
I think you are pretty conclusively punked here.
Tell you what.
We'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's say we let you off the hook on fear(I don't, but let's pretend).
You have still made the case that people come to faith because of what they are facing, not what they have inherently within them. Not their spirituality but their lack, their need, their loss, their sorrow or challenges. Pick a couple. They make the case as well as fear, though all of them are rooted in the latter.
All I have to do is let you open your mouth, and you always do the hard work for me.
LOLOLOL!!!!

 

[Boss]

The Soviet Union was the first state to have elimination of religion as an ideological objective. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in schools.

the Soviet Union was post WWII - Stalin

what is your point Boss, Stalin is simply the reverse reflection of your own agenda that promotes religious dogma by the same means of intimidation.

The Soviet Union was born out of the Russian Revolution of 1917 and became formalized in 1922. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is prior to WWII. My point is, tyrannical Communist rulers are Atheists by design and out of necessity. I don't know how you think I promote ANY religious dogma when I have repeatedly stated that I don't subscribe to organized religion. I promote a spiritualistic realization of spiritual nature which has been connected with humans their entire existence. This transcends religion of any kind.

 

[Boss]

"humans have found solace and comfort in times of peril and struggle..."

Maybe you made the case better with this line of yours.
LOL!!!
If you feel no fear during times of peril, you are Robocop.
Man, this one really embarrassed you! You flipped out good!
LOL!!!
And the hits just keep on coming!

Where did I say ANYTHING about FEAR? You are jumping to conclusions, attributing comments to me that I never made. Why the hell do you think I am embarrassed by you outright LYING about what I said? You're the one who should be embarrassed, here you've been caught in yet another lie you can't defend or justify. Just a pathetic little puss pocket who can't make an argument, can't make a point, can't even be honest in the simplest of discourse.

No.
I think you are pretty conclusively punked here.
Tell you what.
We'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's say we let you off the hook on fear(I don't, but let's pretend).
You have still made the case that people come to faith because of what they are facing, not what they have inherently within them. Not their spirituality but their lack, their need, their loss, their sorrow or challenges. Pick a couple. They make the case as well as fear, though all of them are rooted in the latter.
All I have to do is let you open your mouth, and you always do the hard work for me.
LOLOLOL!!!!

You can think whatever you please, you're a lying idiot. You've proved that here.

Humans have the ability within them to connect to spiritual nature, a force greater than self. This force is a source of inspiration and strength which gives them courage to handle adversity, but it is not something invented because of fear, which has always been your argument. If it were not real, it wouldn't serve this purpose of fulfilling these needs in humans, but it does.

What's been totally blown out of the water here is your notion of a superficial anomaly humans invented to cope with fears of their own mortality. Here is a classic example of Communist tyrants actively working for decades to destroy spirituality and failing to do so. In spite of brutal persecutions and executions, spiritualism prevailed. It cannot be stomped out of the hearts of man. The harder you try, the more persistent it becomes.

In light of what history shows, you have the nerve to lie and distort what I've said and claim some sort of "victory" where nothing of the kind exists for you. Don't look now but another huge chunk of your ass is missing... it's being mounted on my trophy wall as we speak. We're going to have to start calling you "the assless wonder" pretty soon.

 

[MrMax]

Religion was invented to explain the unknown scary things in a human's life. Apparently, some people are still afraid of the unknown.