Zone1 Why do you need gods?

[Meriweather]

IF we were indeed created by a god I think the most pertinent question is what motivated that god to create such a flawed being as a human.

Why do you think humans are flawed?

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Why do you think humans are flawed?

The Bible. Christian soteriology hinges on the idea that all are "fallen" and fall far short of the glory of God.

 

[toobfreak]

Morals evolved along with humans.

Do you have any evidence of that? Or are you just talking wishful thinking. Even history's greatest philosophers evoking ethical philosophies did not "evolve," but were revelations of epiphanies brought about by enlightened insight, a la Confucius, Siddhartha, Euclid, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Justinian, and so forth.

Society is the largest influencer of morals.

Or is it God's impact upon men IN society?

Where you see some atheist conspiracy I see people evolving and realizing that gods are not necessary.

If God is not necessary, then why does society crumble farther and farther the more God is removed from our lives? And you cannot argue that our culture is not crumbling.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Even history's greatest philosophers evoking ethical philosophies did not "evolve," but were revelations of epiphanies brought about by enlightened insight, a la Confucius, Siddhartha, Euclid, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Justinian, and so forth.

"enlightened insight"? How does one differentiate that from someone's "imagination"?

If God is not necessary, then why does society crumble farther and farther the more God is removed from our lives?

That isn't actually what happens. Arguably the most religious first world nation (America) is having a worse time of it now, "society wise", than most of the much more secular nations in Western Europe.

And you cannot argue that our culture is not crumbling.

Yet we are extremely religious relative to most other developed nations.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

If God is not necessary, then why does society crumble farther and farther the more God is removed from our lives? And you cannot argue that our culture is not crumbling.

If God is NECESSARY for ethics does that mean that whatever God says is "good" is good or does it mean that "moral truths" exist before God defined them as "good"?

 

[ding]

Sorry but not going to get "education" out of my system. Sorry if it threatens you.

It wasn't education that led to your taking pot shots at me. It was your wounded pride.

 

[ding]

Oh, ok....so you said you disagree that Karma ISN'T intelligent. My bad. Don't get angry. We all see how emotional you get over petty misunderstandings here.

Yes, I disagreed with you. I believe karma implies intelligence.

 

[ding]

If God is NECESSARY for ethics does that mean that whatever God says is "good" is good or does it mean that "moral truths" exist before God defined them as "good"?

Standards exist for logical reasons.

 

[Blues Man]

Do you have any evidence of that? Or are you just talking wishful thinking. Even history's greatest philosophers evoking ethical philosophies did not "evolve," but were revelations of epiphanies brought about by enlightened insight, a la Confucius, Siddhartha, Euclid, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Justinian, and so forth.


Or is it God's impact upon men IN society?


If God is not necessary, then why does society crumble farther and farther the more God is removed from our lives? And you cannot argue that our culture is not crumbling.

Do you have any evidence that moral codes come from gods?

I don't think you do.

Our society is evolving as all societies do.

it has nothing to do with gods

 

[Blues Man]

Why do you think humans are flawed?

It's obvious if you look at our history

War, genocide, slavery, destruction we're really good at that stuff and we can't seem to stop.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Christianity is a mental disease.

Having to hate someone is your mental disease.

 

[ding]

It's obvious if you look at our history

War, genocide, slavery, destruction we're really good at that stuff and we can't seem to stop.

"MEN frequently think that the evils in the world are more numerous than the good things, that just isn't the case." Maimonides

 

[BothWings]

Yes, I disagreed with you. I believe karma implies intelligence.

Okee dokee.

 

[ding]

Okee dokee.

Carry on my wayward son.

 

[toobfreak]

Do you have any evidence that moral codes come from gods?

1. Moses
2. Mohammad
3. Siddhartha
4. Govinda
5. Dalai Lama
6. Gilgamesh
7. Homer
8. Jesus of Nazareth

To name a few who all say they got their divine inspiration from God. Or, I'm sorry, did you expect actual first hand eye witnesses?

it has nothing to do with gods

That is just YOUR opinion. Tell it to Bangladesh, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Malawi, Niger, Sri Lanka, Yemen, Mauritania, Somalia, Afghanistan, Comoros, Egypt, Guinea, Laos, Morocco, Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, Cameroon, Jordan, Malaysia, Nigeria, Philippines, Senegal, Algeria, Chad, Ghana, Mali, Qatar, Republic of the Congo, Rwanda, and Zambia. And these are just the countries which average between 95 and 99% religious.

Even the United States, the 104th most religious country, still has a preponderance of 69% of its people who are religious, a clear majority. And the 103 countries more religious than us have even MORE religious people.

World’s Most (And Least) Religious Countries, 2024 - CEOWORLD magazine

According to a survey conducted by CEOWORLD magazine, Somalia has once again been ranked as the most religious country in the world. The survey, which included responses from over 820,000 individuals worldwide, ranked 148 countries based on their level of religiousness. Niger came in second...

ceoworld.biz

So your claim that religion and God place no role in governing society is nothing but bull hockey!

But interesting that as you look to the LEAST religious nations, they are all the countries that Democrats most align with!

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Standards exist for logical reasons.

Just answer the question. (Hopefully you recognize it by now, but I also assume you have no clue that we've talked about this before).

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

It wasn't education that led to your taking pot shots at me. It was your wounded pride.

You clearly lack education. Sorry. You don't seem to know anything in technical detail.

 

[Meriweather]

The Bible. Christian soteriology hinges on the idea that all are "fallen" and fall far short of the glory of God.

That is not the same as "flawed" is it?

 

[buttercup]

Personally I think it's human hubris to claim we are the very image of a god it's just one more illustration of how humans need to pump up their egos. After all no one really knows what any god looks like

It's not a physical thing. There are different ideas on what it means to be created "in the image of God." One of the most common interpretations is that humans were created with certain characteristics of God. We are rational, creative beings with the ability to understand right from wrong.

My interpretation of "made in God's image" is different... I believe that being made in God’s image has to do with a unique calling or purpose. Just as God has dominion over us, God gave us dominion over the animals and this earth... but according to God's likeness. (Gen. 1:26) That means we were called to 'rule' in a godly way, in the way God rules; with sacrificial love, mercy, goodness, justice, etc. (which of course mankind has failed to do, in a monumental way, but that's another topic.)

IF we were indeed created by a god I think the most pertinent question is what motivated that god to create such a flawed being as a human.

He didn't create us flawed, He created us with free will, basically as 'clean slates.' What people do with their free will can be good or bad, but don't blame God for what people choose to do with it. I believe freedom of choice is a gift because without it we'd be nothing but robots or puppets. Obviously God didn't want that, He wants us to choose to do the right thing and to love Him willingly, on our own, not because we were pre-programmed to like robots. What good would that be?

 

[buttercup]

The Bible. Christian soteriology hinges on the idea that all are "fallen" and fall far short of the glory of God.

He didn't create us "fallen" though. In the beginning, God said everything was "very good." (Genesis 1:31). The fall of man came later, when humans chose to go their own way, believing a lie instead of the truth.