Why does Congress prevent the CDC from studying gun-related violence?

[2aguy]

See...you hate people...you think we are all violent sociopaths just one badly cooked dinner from murdering our families, and one fender bender away from shooting a fellow driver...and that is not true.....normal gun owners do not shoot other people as our crime stats show.....

Ah, i was wondering how long it was going to take you to get to 'Well, it's only THOSE people shooting each other (meaning "The Darkies") so it's okay that we have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country.

I'm a pragmatist. The fact is, most murder victims KNOW their killers. And as m uch as you want to say it's "Those people", the fact is, gang related murders represented only 1800 of the 16,000 homicides we have every year in this country.

Gun deaths represent 11,000 of those deaths most years. (Sorry, you keep bringing up incomplete numbers from 2014, hoping no one will notice.)

You put a gun in the household, you are going to have tragedy.

This is why Kellerman makes you guys so fucking nuts. He pointed out most gun deaths were from guns in the home, not guns brought in from outside and not guns being used to defend the home.

Gun deaths represent 11,000 of those deaths most years. (Sorry, you keep bringing up incomplete numbers from 2014, hoping no one will notice.)

Nope...another lie....I use gun murder stats from the FBI homicide table 8 for 2014...just released......and they show that gun murders are going down.

 

[2aguy]

Not sure why the Left is pushing for this.

The CDC is far more likely to blame the shooter than the firearm.

Completely derailing their talking points

Thanks for the results of research... But there is no studies, again nothing done...

GOP must like having dead kids...

Here is the truth about kids and guns....you just hate guns...since the leading cause of death for kids is riding in cars...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Kids murdered by guns....

under 1: 12
age 1-4: 39

age 5-14: 142

total gun murder of children.....193



Kids murdered by other means...

under 1: 270
age 1-4: 298
age 5-14: 135



murder of children by other means.....703
Now, if even if you include gun accidents into the total.....

you are still wrong....

Accidental death by gun for children....

under 1: 3
age 1-4: 27
age 5-14: 39

Total accidental gun death for kids 2013....69

Again...stop reading that crap from the anti gunners...they are lying to you ....

 

[2aguy]

See...you hate people...you think we are all violent sociopaths just one badly cooked dinner from murdering our families, and one fender bender away from shooting a fellow driver...and that is not true.....normal gun owners do not shoot other people as our crime stats show.....

Ah, i was wondering how long it was going to take you to get to 'Well, it's only THOSE people shooting each other (meaning "The Darkies") so it's okay that we have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country.

I'm a pragmatist. The fact is, most murder victims KNOW their killers. And as m uch as you want to say it's "Those people", the fact is, gang related murders represented only 1800 of the 16,000 homicides we have every year in this country.

Gun deaths represent 11,000 of those deaths most years. (Sorry, you keep bringing up incomplete numbers from 2014, hoping no one will notice.)

You put a gun in the household, you are going to have tragedy.

This is why Kellerman makes you guys so fucking nuts. He pointed out most gun deaths were from guns in the home, not guns brought in from outside and not guns being used to defend the home.

Kellerman lied....

 

[2aguy]

See...you hate people...you think we are all violent sociopaths just one badly cooked dinner from murdering our families, and one fender bender away from shooting a fellow driver...and that is not true.....normal gun owners do not shoot other people as our crime stats show.....

Ah, i was wondering how long it was going to take you to get to 'Well, it's only THOSE people shooting each other (meaning "The Darkies") so it's okay that we have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country.

I'm a pragmatist. The fact is, most murder victims KNOW their killers. And as m uch as you want to say it's "Those people", the fact is, gang related murders represented only 1800 of the 16,000 homicides we have every year in this country.

Gun deaths represent 11,000 of those deaths most years. (Sorry, you keep bringing up incomplete numbers from 2014, hoping no one will notice.)

You put a gun in the household, you are going to have tragedy.

This is why Kellerman makes you guys so fucking nuts. He pointed out most gun deaths were from guns in the home, not guns brought in from outside and not guns being used to defend the home.

Here you go....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

 

[JoeB131]

Nope...another lie....I use gun murder stats from the FBI homicide table 8 for 2014...just released......and they show that gun murders are going down.

Except those preliminary numbers are always revised up in later years.

The gun homicide rate has actually been pretty consistantly north of 11K a year for the last 10 years. 2014 will be no different when final numbers are collected.

 

[2aguy]

See...you hate people...you think we are all violent sociopaths just one badly cooked dinner from murdering our families, and one fender bender away from shooting a fellow driver...and that is not true.....normal gun owners do not shoot other people as our crime stats show.....

Ah, i was wondering how long it was going to take you to get to 'Well, it's only THOSE people shooting each other (meaning "The Darkies") so it's okay that we have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country.

I'm a pragmatist. The fact is, most murder victims KNOW their killers. And as m uch as you want to say it's "Those people", the fact is, gang related murders represented only 1800 of the 16,000 homicides we have every year in this country.

Gun deaths represent 11,000 of those deaths most years. (Sorry, you keep bringing up incomplete numbers from 2014, hoping no one will notice.)

You put a gun in the household, you are going to have tragedy.

This is why Kellerman makes you guys so fucking nuts. He pointed out most gun deaths were from guns in the home, not guns brought in from outside and not guns being used to defend the home.

Kellerman lies...

Public Health Pot Shots

At the same time that he misuses other people's work, Kellermann refuses to provide the full data for any of his studies so that scholars can evaluate his findings. His critics therefore can judge his results only from the partial data he chooses to publish. Consider a 1993 New England Journal of Medicinestudy that, according to press reports, "showed that keeping a gun in the home nearly triples the likelihood that someone in the household will be slain there." This claim cannot be verified because Kellerman will not release the data. Relying on independent sources to fill gaps in the published data, SUNY-Buffalo's Lawrence Southwick has speculated that Kellermann's full data set would actually vindicate defensive gun ownership. Such issues cannot be resolved without Kellermann's cooperation, but the CDC has refused to require its researchers to part with their data as a condition for taxpayer funding.

Even without access to secret data, it's clear that many of Kellermann's inferences are not justified. In a 1995 JAMA study that was funded by the CDC, he and his colleagues examined 198 incidents in which burglars entered occupied homes in Atlanta. They found that "only three individuals (1.5%) employed a firearm in self-defense"--from which they concluded that guns are rarely used for self-defense. On closer examination, however, Kellermann et al.'s data do not support that conclusion. In 42 percent of the incidents, there was no confrontation between victim and offender because "the offender(s) either left silently or fled when detected." When the burglar left silently, the victim was not even aware of the crime, so he did not have the opportunity to use a gun in self-defense (or to call the police, for that matter). The intruders who "fled when detected" show how defensive gun ownership can protect all victims, armed and unarmed alike, since the possibility of confronting an armed resident encourages burglars to flee.

These 83 no-confrontation incidents should be dropped from Kellermann et al.'s original list of 198 burglaries. Similarly, about 50 percent of U.S. homes do not contain guns, and in 70 percent of the homes that do, the guns are kept unloaded. After eliminating the burglaries where armed self-defense was simply not feasible, Kellermann's 198 incidents shrink to 17, and his 1.5 percent figure for defensive use rises to 17 percent. More important, this study covers only burglaries reported to the police. Since police catch only about 10 percent of home burglars, the only good reason to report a burglary is that police documentation is required to file an insurance claim. But if no property was lost because the burglar fled when the householder brandished a gun, why report the incident? And, aside from the inconvenience, there are strong reasons not to report: The gun may not be registered, or the householder may not be certain that guns can legally be used to repel unarmed burglars. Thus, for all Kellermann knows, successful gun use far exceeds the three incidents reported to police in his Atlanta study.

 

[2aguy]

Nope...another lie....I use gun murder stats from the FBI homicide table 8 for 2014...just released......and they show that gun murders are going down.

Except those preliminary numbers are always revised up in later years.

The gun homicide rate has actually been pretty consistantly north of 11K a year for the last 10 years. 2014 will be no different when final numbers are collected.

Nope....the table from the FBI lists the numbers for the previous 5 years as well...there was a spike in 2012 but the overall numbers are going down for gun murder, not up....

And the table also shows that knives, bare hands, and clubs kill more people than all rifles combined.....

 

[2aguy]

Nope...another lie....I use gun murder stats from the FBI homicide table 8 for 2014...just released......and they show that gun murders are going down.

Except those preliminary numbers are always revised up in later years.

The gun homicide rate has actually been pretty consistantly north of 11K a year for the last 10 years. 2014 will be no different when final numbers are collected.

It is 2015...the 2014 numbers were released last month..they aren't preliminary.....

 

[SwimExpert]

I say that all gun shot wounds and deaths are inherently violent in nature due to the physics of gun fire.

Fallacy of equivocation. You are using two entirely different contexts of the word "violent" as if they were interchangeable. By your reasoning, a space shuttle launch would have to be considered "violent" and thus worthy of a CDC investigation.

 

[2aguy]

I say that all gun shot wounds and deaths are inherently violent in nature due to the physics of gun fire.

Fallacy of equivocation. You are using two entirely different contexts of the word "violent" as if they were interchangeable. By your reasoning, a space shuttle launch would have to be considered "violent" and thus worthy of a CDC investigation.

Don't forget volcano eruptions......

 

[2aguy]

More reasons why kellerman can't be trusted....


Public Health Pot Shots
Similar sins of omission invalidate the conclusion of a 1986 New England Journal of Medicine study that Kellermann co-authored with University of Washington pathologist Donald T. Reay, another gun researcher who has enjoyed the CDC's support. (This particular study was funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.) Examining gunshot deaths in King County, Washington, from 1978 to 1983, Kellermann and Reay found that, of 398 people killed in a home where a gun was kept, only two were intruders shot while trying to get in. "We noted 43 suicides, criminal homicides, or accidental gunshot deaths involving a gun kept in the home for every case of homicide for self-protection," they wrote, concluding that "the advisability of keeping firearms in the home for protection must be questioned."

But since Kellermann and Reay considered only cases resulting in death, which Gary Kleck's research indicates are a tiny percentage of defensive gun uses, this conclusion does not follow. As the researchers themselves conceded, "Mortality studies such as ours do not include cases in which burglars or intruders are wounded or frightened away by the use or display of a firearm. Cases in which would-be intruders may have purposely avoided a house known to be armed are also not identified." By leaving out such cases, Kellermann and Reay excluded almost all of the lives saved, injuries avoided, and property protected by keeping a gun in the home. Yet advocates of gun control continue to use this study as the basis for claims such as, "A gun in the home is 43 times as likely to kill a family member as to be used in self-defense."

Another popular factoid--"having a gun in the home increases the risk of suicide by almost five times"--is also based on a Kellermann study, this one funded by the CDC and published by The New England Journal of Medicine in 1992. Kellermann and his colleagues matched each of 438 suicides to a "control" of the same race, sex, approximate age, and neighborhood. After controlling for arrests, drug abuse, living alone, and use of psychotropic medication (all of which were more common among the suicides), they found that a household with one or more guns was 4.8 times as likely to be the site of a suicide.

Although press reports about gun research commonly treat correlation and causation as one and the same, this association does not prove that having a gun in the house raises the risk of suicide. We can imagine alternative explanations: Perhaps gun ownership in this sample was associated with personality traits that were, in turn, related to suicide, or perhaps people who had contemplated suicide bought a gun for that reason. To put the association in perspective, it's worth noting that living alone and using illicit drugs were both better predictors of suicide than gun ownership was. That does not necessarily mean that living alone or using illegal drugs leads to suicide.

Furthermore, Kellermann and his colleagues selected their sample with an eye toward increasing the apparent role of gun ownership in suicide. They started by looking at all suicides that occurred during a 32-month period in King County, Washington, and Shelby County, Tennessee, but they excluded cases that occurred outside the home--nearly a third of the original sample. "Our study was restricted to suicides occurring in the victim's home," they explained with admirable frankness, "because a previous study has indicated that most suicides committed with guns occur there."

Kellermann also participated in CDC-funded research that simplistically compared homicide rates in Seattle and Vancouver, attributing the difference to Canada's stricter gun laws. This study, published in The New England Journal of Medicine in 1988, ignored important demographic differences between the two cities that help explain the much higher incidence of violence in Seattle. Furthermore, the researchers were aware of nationwide research that came to strikingly different conclusions about Canadian gun control, but they failed to inform their readers about that evidence.

Two years later in the same journal, the same research team compared suicide rates in Seattle and Vancouver. Unfazed by the fact that Seattle had a lower suicide rate, they emphasized that the rate was higher for one subgroup, adolescents and young men--a difference they attributed to lax American gun laws. Gary Mauser, a criminologist at Simon Fraser University, called the Seattle/Vancouver comparisons "a particularly egregious example" of "an abuse of scholarship, inventing, selecting, or misinterpreting data in order to validate a priori conclusions."

 

[SwimExpert]

Good point. We need to lock up the assholes who let their guns get 'Stolen", since they probably really just sold them to a bad guy.

People, you can't fix stupid. You just can't fix it.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Considering all of the statistics and studies that have been pulled up in just this thread alone, it makes me wonder why more money should be spent on a study to study the studies that have already been done.
Unless someone is looking for a study to show what they want instead of the truth.

as far as the idiotic comment made previously that stated as fact, If you have a gun in the home there will be tragedy, or something to that effect. do the math, find out how many guns are owned in the U.S, then take the number of gun crimes (not counting government crime) and lets see if the actual percentage will in any way support such an ignorant statement.

 

[2aguy]

In 2013 obama told the CDC to study all current gun studies...they spent 10 million dollars to do it.....they found that Americans use guns between 500,000 and 3 million times a year to stop violent crimunal attack...

 

[JoeB131]

In 2013 obama told the CDC to study all current gun studies...they spent 10 million dollars to do it.....they found that Americans use guns between 500,000 and 3 million times a year to stop violent crimunal attack...

So they found there was no reliable data on something that was totally subjective.

That's nice.

 

[JoeB131]

as far as the idiotic comment made previously that stated as fact, If you have a gun in the home there will be tragedy, or something to that effect. do the math, find out how many guns are owned in the U.S, then take the number of gun crimes (not counting government crime) and lets see if the actual percentage will in any way support such an ignorant statement.

You know, by that logic, we should never recall a defective product, as only one in a million actually chokes a kid or sends a car off a cliff, right?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

as far as the idiotic comment made previously that stated as fact, If you have a gun in the home there will be tragedy, or something to that effect. do the math, find out how many guns are owned in the U.S, then take the number of gun crimes (not counting government crime) and lets see if the actual percentage will in any way support such an ignorant statement.

You know, by that logic, we should never recall a defective product, as only one in a million actually chokes a kid or sends a car off a cliff, right?

RETARD ALERT. Be specific Joe, you want a total ban right? Or will those YOU think are ok be able to keep what YOU decide they should have?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

as far as the idiotic comment made previously that stated as fact, If you have a gun in the home there will be tragedy, or something to that effect. do the math, find out how many guns are owned in the U.S, then take the number of gun crimes (not counting government crime) and lets see if the actual percentage will in any way support such an ignorant statement.

You know, by that logic, we should never recall a defective product, as only one in a million actually chokes a kid or sends a car off a cliff, right?

RETARD ALERT. Be specific Joe, you want a total ban right? Or will those YOU think are ok be able to keep what YOU decide they should have?

Everybody likes gun control, for the other guy who might shoot back.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

as far as the idiotic comment made previously that stated as fact, If you have a gun in the home there will be tragedy, or something to that effect. do the math, find out how many guns are owned in the U.S, then take the number of gun crimes (not counting government crime) and lets see if the actual percentage will in any way support such an ignorant statement.

You know, by that logic, we should never recall a defective product, as only one in a million actually chokes a kid or sends a car off a cliff, right?

RETARD ALERT. Be specific Joe, you want a total ban right? Or will those YOU think are ok be able to keep what YOU decide they should have?

Everybody likes gun control, for the other guy who might shoot back.

Be specific admit you want a ban on anyone that YOU don't like.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

as far as the idiotic comment made previously that stated as fact, If you have a gun in the home there will be tragedy, or something to that effect. do the math, find out how many guns are owned in the U.S, then take the number of gun crimes (not counting government crime) and lets see if the actual percentage will in any way support such an ignorant statement.

You know, by that logic, we should never recall a defective product, as only one in a million actually chokes a kid or sends a car off a cliff, right?

RETARD ALERT. Be specific Joe, you want a total ban right? Or will those YOU think are ok be able to keep what YOU decide they should have?

Everybody likes gun control, for the other guy who might shoot back.

Be specific admit you want a ban on anyone that YOU don't like.

I want a ban on everyone. Almost no one needs a gun anymore.

When the ban goes into effect I'll turn mine in as well, although I still need to kill things which is all guns are good for.