Why does Congress prevent the CDC from studying gun-related violence?

[2aguy]

Again, another society that experienced feudalism, which is something our country didn't experience.....you will notice the countries that went through a feudal period accept a class based society and respect central authority more than those who didn't.

i read shit like this, and all I can think of is that episode of the Beverly Hillbillies where they went to England and Jethro says to Uncle Jed, "I done asked them, and I can't find a Serf or a Vassal in the bunch!"

Hey, here's why the rest of the industrialized world, who are much better educated, more cultured and more advanced that America don't have guns.

They don't need them. Period. There is not a SINGLE GOOD REASON why an average citizen needs a gun.

A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy. When they found that out, the NRA got further studies banned.

And if you ever took up arms against the government the government will put you down like a mad dog to the wild cheering of your neighbors, because you were frightening their children.

You guys are a fringe, and we need to start treating you as such.

Yes...the Europe is so cultured they used poison gas to murder 12 million innocent men, women and children......and if you average out those murders their murder rate is far higher than ours...and of course those Continental Sophisticates threw the World into the worst wars mankind has ever seen.....they seem to prefer mass murder over gun murder...

 

[JoeB131]

And of course, how did this 19 year old get a gun in Britain....?

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack



Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.

The operative part of this story was that the governmetn was able to IDENTIFY this guy and stop him before he did anything.

That never seems to happen in this country. IN this country, the nuts walk into stores, buy their guns legally, and then we find out everyone in their lives knew they were crazy- Lanza, Mercer, Loughner, Holmes, Cho, Roof - every last one of them we found out they were nuts within days, sometimes just by looking at their social media.

Frankly, I'd rather have a situation where the nuts have to make an effort to get a gun and out themselves before they can do anything bad.

So-

England- Nut caught before he kills anyone. Goes to prison for life.

USA- Nut buys gun, kills a dozen or so people, kills himself before police can capture him.

 

[JoeB131]

you are right there are 1.5 million reasons why an average citizen needs a gun.....

Guy, the FBI puts DGU's at 65,000, and i think that number is exaggerated.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

What are they afraid of? Is the CDC barred from scientifically examining any other causes of death? Why this?

Quietly, Congress extends a ban on CDC research on gun violenc

In the immediate aftermath of the massacre in Charleston, South Carolina, the US House of Representatives Appropriations Committee quietly rejected an amendment that would have allowed the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to study the underlying causes of gun violence.

Dr. Fred Rivara, a professor of Pediatrics and Epidemiology at the University of Washington at Seattle Children's Hospital, has been involved with injury research for 30 years. He was part of a team that researched gun violence back in the 1990s and personally saw the chilling effects of the NRA’s lobbying arm. Rivara says that the NRA accused the CDC of trying to use science to promote gun control.

“As a result of that, many, many people stopped doing gun research, [and] the number of publications on firearm violence decreased dramatically," he told The Takeaway in April. "It was really chilling in terms of our ability to conduct research on this very important problem.”

In 2013, some 34,000 Americans died from gunshot wounds. So Takeaway Washington Correspondent Todd Zwillich decided to ask House Speaker John Boehner why his party is trying to block research on gun violence.

“The CDC is there to look at diseases that need to be dealt with to protect public health,” Boehner said at a press conference last week. “I’m sorry, but a gun is not a disease. Guns don’t kill people — people do. And when people use weapons in a horrible way, we should condemn the actions of the individual and not blame the action on some weapon.”

But does the CDC research blame the public health issue of gun violence on the weapons themselves?

“The original concern from the National Rifle Association back in 1996, which Dr. Rivara mentioned, made that very implication,” says Zwillich. “The NRA complained to Congress that the CDC was using the results of its research to essentially advocate for gun control. They called it propaganda. And back at that time, Congress slashed the CDC’s funding by the exact amount that was used for gun-related public health research.”

Rivara and his team discovered that having a gun in the home is associated with a threefold increase in the risk of a homicide — they released this information in a series of peer-reviewed articles that appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine. The CDC both funded Rivara’s original research and stood by the findings.

But after Congress seemingly retaliated against the CDC for publishing Rivara’s findings, Zwillich says researchers with the agency have shied away from conducting gun research.

Gonna discover something that wasn't discovered in the wake of WW2 and the Holocaust? Violence has been studied already. Not gonna figure anything out that wasn't figured out generations ago.

 

[JoeB131]

the british police ate under reporting their crime to kkep their numbers lower......the BBc and other news sources have been reporting this for years...

Right. You see, everyone is fudging the numbers to make the case for gun control, even countries where they dont even care about our arguments.

Riiiiight.

Hey, guy, why just admit you don't care about 33,000 gun deaths and 70,000 gun injuries. You just want yourself a gun because it gives you the illusion of control.

Because spamming every thread with NRA propaganda is getting a bit boring.

 

[2aguy]

And of course, how did this 19 year old get a gun in Britain....?

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack



Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.

The operative part of this story was that the governmetn was able to IDENTIFY this guy and stop him before he did anything.

That never seems to happen in this country. IN this country, the nuts walk into stores, buy their guns legally, and then we find out everyone in their lives knew they were crazy- Lanza, Mercer, Loughner, Holmes, Cho, Roof - every last one of them we found out they were nuts within days, sometimes just by looking at their social media.

Frankly, I'd rather have a situation where the nuts have to make an effort to get a gun and out themselves before they can do anything bad.

So-

England- Nut caught before he kills anyone. Goes to prison for life.

USA- Nut buys gun, kills a dozen or so people, kills himself before police can capture him.

Actually we stop these kids all the time......the same way they did.....someone tipped off their police......same as over here....

Notice the big gorilla in the room....not one of their extreme gun laws stopped this kid....he was stopped by someone noticing his social media...the same way we do it here...

there is no need to license normal gun owners, register guns or have. Universal background checks.....none of them would stop our mass shooters and they didn't stop this kid in Britain.

and they didn't stop the 15 year old immigrant kid in Australia who used an illegal gun to murder the police employee last week....and he could just as,easily walked into a school or a movie theater to murder more people...

Not one gun control law stopped any of these guys.

 

[Nosmo King]

How can you say that with a straight face?

Intelligently.

Gun shots aren't a violent occurrence, eh? Especially when BULLETS GO INTO A HUMAN?

I've heard of denial, but hardly ever in such a stupidly stubborn and indefensible manner as this.

I WANT YOU TO PRESENT FACTS SHOWING THAT A FIREARM TOOK IT UPON ITSELF TO SHOOT SOMEONE.... DO IT NOW.


.

What?!? Why should I do that? The question is: should the CDC study the cause and effect of gun violence.

Swim Expert is trying (feebly) to assert that gun violence is always criminal in nature and therefore falls outside the jurisdiction of a public health organization like the CDC.

I say that all gun shot wounds and deaths are inherently violent in nature due to the physics of gun fire. That validates the study of gun shot wounds and deaths.

And now you come in, like someone's little brother lacking context and reason and insist that some dumbass question get an answer.

 

[2aguy]

the british police ate under reporting their crime to kkep their numbers lower......the BBc and other news sources have been reporting this for years...

Right. You see, everyone is fudging the numbers to make the case for gun control, even countries where they dont even care about our arguments.

Riiiiight.

Hey, guy, why just admit you don't care about 33,000 gun deaths and 70,000 gun injuries. You just want yourself a gun because it gives you the illusion of control.

Because spamming every thread with NRA propaganda is getting a bit boring.

suicides don't count...we have 19,000 people who commit suicide without guns...so those who killed themselves with guns will simply use the methods of the other 19,000.

We had 8,124 gun murders in 2014, commited by a small portion of our population....the tiny group of violent sociopaths who are not normal people. they commited most of the gun murders against each other, in tiny areas of our major cities where prosecutors and judges do not take gun crimes seriously....

Bill clinton's two anti gun researchers created their own study and used it to debunk the number of times Americans use guns for self defense.......and the number their study found was 1.5 million times a year...

so......

8,124 gun murders

1.5 million violent crimes stopped.....

I actually care about saving lives...you just hate guns......

accidental gun deaths in 2013... 505

13 million people carry guns for self defense.

320 million guns in private hands.

8,124 gun murders, most othem against criminals.

No..we do not have a gun problem....we have a crimunal justice system problem.

 

[2aguy]

you are right there are 1.5 million reasons why an average citizen needs a gun.....

Guy, the FBI puts DGU's at 65,000, and i think that number is exaggerated.

Nope.....1.5 million.....according to bill clinton...you god...right?

And 65,000 still higher than 8,124 gun murders most of which are criminals shooting other criminals.

 

[2aguy]

And to put it into perspective.....there were 8,124 gun murders in 2014....if you divide that by 50 states...that is only 162 gun murders per state.....and most of those are committed by democrat criminals against each other....

so if you aren't a criminal, or a democrat you are pretty safe.

 

[Wildman]

You just want yourself a gun because it gives you the illusion of control.

do you own a vehicle ? any vehicle ? why don't we ban them as they kill and maim more people than any other known object we Americans are allowed to own.

 

[2aguy]

of the 8,124 gun murder victims....most of them had criminal records when they were shot.....so again, it is criminals killing criminals...

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.

 

[2aguy]

And more information on the gun murder victims...from 2012

America Doesn't Have a Gun Problem, It Has a Gang Problem


chicago's murder numbers have hit that magic 500. Baltimore's murder toll has passed 200. In Philly, it's up to 324, the highest since 2007. In Detroit, it's approaching 400, another record. In New Orleans, it's almost at 200. New York City is down to 414 from 508. In Los Angeles, it's over 500. In St. Louis it's 113 and 130 in Oakland. It’s 121 in Memphis and 76 in Birmingham.

Washington, D.C., home of the boys and girls who can solve it all, is nearing its own big 100.

Those 12 cities alone account for nearly 3,200 dead and nearly a quarter of all murders in the United States. And we haven't even visited sunny Atlanta or chilly Cleveland.

These cities are the heartland of America’s real gun culture. It isn’t the bitter gun-and-bible clingers in McCain and Romney territory who are racking up a more horrifying annual kill rate than Al Qaeda; it’s Obama’s own voting base.

Chicago, where Obama delivered his victory speech, has homicide numbers that match all of Japan and are higher than Spain, Poland and pre-war Syria. If Chicago gets any worse, it will find itself passing the number of murders for the entire country of Canada.

 

[2aguy]

the british police ate under reporting their crime to kkep their numbers lower......the BBc and other news sources have been reporting this for years...

Right. You see, everyone is fudging the numbers to make the case for gun control, even countries where they dont even care about our arguments.

Riiiiight.

Hey, guy, why just admit you don't care about 33,000 gun deaths and 70,000 gun injuries. You just want yourself a gun because it gives you the illusion of control.

Because spamming every thread with NRA propaganda is getting a bit boring.

See...you hate people...you think we are all violent sociopaths just one badly cooked dinner from murdering our families, and one fender bender away from shooting a fellow driver...and that is not true.....normal gun owners do not shoot other people as our crime stats show.....

Public Health Pot Shots

These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available.

Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence. Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence.


In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.

Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments.

Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique.

According to a 1993 article in the Journal of Trauma, 80 percent of murders in Washington, D.C., are related to the drug trade, while "84% of [Philadelphia murder] victims in 1990 had antemortem drug use or criminal history."

A 1994 article in The New England Journal of Medicinereported that 71 percent of Los Angeles children and adolescents injured in drive-by shootings "were documented members of violent street gangs."

And University of North Carolina-Charlotte criminal justice scholars Richard Lumb and Paul C. Friday report that 71 percent of adult gunshot wound victims in Charlotte have criminal records.

So you guys want to base our gun laws on criminals shooting other criminas who are breaking the law by shooting other criminals.......

 

[CowboyTed]

Not sure why the Left is pushing for this.

The CDC is far more likely to blame the shooter than the firearm.

Completely derailing their talking points

Thanks for the results of research... But there is no studies, again nothing done...

GOP must like having dead kids...

 

[JoeB131]

Nope.....1.5 million.....according to bill clinton...you god...right?

And 65,000 still higher than 8,124 gun murders most of which are criminals shooting other criminals.

Well, no, guy. It's not an acceptable tradeoff, when you factor in the other 20,000 deaths caused by accidents and suicides, the 80,000 gun injuries, and the 300,000 gun crimes we have every year in this country.

Gun Crime costs this country 229 BILLION a year. It's much too high of a price in blood and treasure to let you compensate for your "shortcomings'.

 

[JoeB131]

See...you hate people...you think we are all violent sociopaths just one badly cooked dinner from murdering our families, and one fender bender away from shooting a fellow driver...and that is not true.....normal gun owners do not shoot other people as our crime stats show.....

Ah, i was wondering how long it was going to take you to get to 'Well, it's only THOSE people shooting each other (meaning "The Darkies") so it's okay that we have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country.

I'm a pragmatist. The fact is, most murder victims KNOW their killers. And as m uch as you want to say it's "Those people", the fact is, gang related murders represented only 1800 of the 16,000 homicides we have every year in this country.

Gun deaths represent 11,000 of those deaths most years. (Sorry, you keep bringing up incomplete numbers from 2014, hoping no one will notice.)

You put a gun in the household, you are going to have tragedy.

This is why Kellerman makes you guys so fucking nuts. He pointed out most gun deaths were from guns in the home, not guns brought in from outside and not guns being used to defend the home.

 

[2aguy]

See...you hate people...you think we are all violent sociopaths just one badly cooked dinner from murdering our families, and one fender bender away from shooting a fellow driver...and that is not true.....normal gun owners do not shoot other people as our crime stats show.....

Ah, i was wondering how long it was going to take you to get to 'Well, it's only THOSE people shooting each other (meaning "The Darkies") so it's okay that we have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country.

I'm a pragmatist. The fact is, most murder victims KNOW their killers. And as m uch as you want to say it's "Those people", the fact is, gang related murders represented only 1800 of the 16,000 homicides we have every year in this country.

Gun deaths represent 11,000 of those deaths most years. (Sorry, you keep bringing up incomplete numbers from 2014, hoping no one will notice.)

You put a gun in the household, you are going to have tragedy.

This is why Kellerman makes you guys so fucking nuts. He pointed out most gun deaths were from guns in the home, not guns brought in from outside and not guns being used to defend the home.

Here you go...the actual research....

Most murder victims in big cities have criminal record

A review of murder statistics across America shows that in many large cities, up to 90 percent of the victims have criminal records.
-------
The report concludes that “of the 2011 homicide victims, 77 percent (66) had a least one prior arrest and of the known 2011 homicide suspects 90 percent (74) had at least one prior arrest.”
----------


In early 2012, after pressure put on the police by murder victims’ families in New Orleans, the police department stopped revealing whether or not the murder victim had a prior record.

---------------

Though data is no longer published in Baltimore, USA Today reported in 2007 that 91 percent of the then-205 murder victims in the city between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31, 2007, had criminal records.

---------
A WND review of the Philadelphia Police Department Murder and Shooting Analysis for 2011 shows a similar pattern to that of other large cities in America – a majority of the murder victims have prior records.



--------
In Philadelphia in 2011, of 324 murders, 81 percent (263) of the victims had at least one prior arrest; 62 percent (164) had been arrested for a violent crime prior to their murder.

----------

In Newark, N.J., long considered one of America’s most dangerous cities, 85 percent of the 165 murder victims between 2009 and 2010 had serious arrest histories.

Anthony Braga, a professor with the Rutgers-Newark School of Criminal Justice, told the Newark Star-Ledger that 85 percent of 165 murder victims in Newark between 2009 and 2010 had been arrested at least once before they were killed.

Those victims, he said, had, on average, 10 prior arrests on their criminal records.

A WND review of the Chicago Police Department Murder Analysis reports from 2003 to 2011 provides a statistical breakdown of the demographics of both the victims and offenders in the 4,265 murders in Chicago over that time period.

Of the victims of murder in Chicago from 2003 to 2011, an average of 77 percent had a prior arrest history, with a high of 79 percent of the 436 murdered in Chicago in 2010 having arrest histories.



***************
*****************
Public Health Pot Shots



These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available. Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence. Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.

Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence. In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.

Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments. Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique. According to a 1993 article in the Journal of Trauma, 80 percent of murders in Washington, D.C., are related to the drug trade, while "84% of [Philadelphia murder] victims in 1990 had antemortem drug use or criminal history." A 1994 article in The New England Journal of Medicinereported that 71 percent of Los Angeles children and adolescents injured in drive-by shootings "were documented members of violent street gangs." And University of North Carolina-Charlotte criminal justice scholars Richard Lumb and Paul C. Friday report that 71 percent of adult gunshot wound victims in Charlotte have criminal records.

 

[Auld Phart]

Not sure why the Left is pushing for this.

The CDC is far more likely to blame the shooter than the firearm.

Completely derailing their talking points

Thanks for the results of research... But there is no studies, again nothing done...

GOP must like having dead kids...

GOP must like having dead kids...

No, I doubt they do.

But what law, in your opinion, would prevent occurrences like these from happening?

Studies?

Study FBI stats.

Murder rates are going down annually, across the board.

Assault weapon ban?

More people die from bee stings than assault weapons in a year.

But, 'assault weapons' look scarier, dont' they?

 

[2aguy]

Nope.....1.5 million.....according to bill clinton...you god...right?

And 65,000 still higher than 8,124 gun murders most of which are criminals shooting other criminals.

Well, no, guy. It's not an acceptable tradeoff, when you factor in the other 20,000 deaths caused by accidents and suicides, the 80,000 gun injuries, and the 300,000 gun crimes we have every year in this country.

Gun Crime costs this country 229 BILLION a year. It's much too high of a price in blood and treasure to let you compensate for your "shortcomings'.

8,124 gun murders of criminals mostly killing other criminals

1.5 million normal Americans using guns to stop violent criminal attack....

Well, no, guy. It's not an acceptable tradeoff, when you factor in the other 20,000 deaths caused by accidents and suicides

And of course, as an anti gun extremist you have to lie.......

accidental gun deaths in 2013..... 505 ....for the entire country.....of 320 million people.

You have to toss in suicides in order to raise your numbers.... 505 ....doesn't look as good does it....?

1.5 million rapes, robberies and murders stopped saving this country billions of dollars.......not only in the saving of lives, but in the future lives saved when criminals are captured by armed, normal gun owners and handed over to police.....

A criminal on the street costs more than one locked up in prison.