Why does the left count the ACA as one of Obama's successes?

[Little-Acorn]

The economy sucks. That happens when you don't spread the cash around.

By "you", little housepainter means government, not the people.

That makes him completely wrong, of course.

The economy sucks when the people don't spread the cash around... by buying, selling, and working.

Government has little to do with such activities... except to the degree it can prevent them, by taxation and restriction (the only powers government has).

Government creates the Middle Class. It's not natural to Capitalism.

Looks like little housepainter is continuing his 0-for-everything record of being wrong.

In fact, capitalism created the middle class, by providing the only means by which formerly-poor people could work their way up, AND a concrete incentive to do so.

Capitalism is merely commerce with no interference from government, except the obvious needs of criminal prosecution and contract enforcement. Finally landlords, kneecappers and unrestrained revenooers could no longer take everything that people managed to accumulate, and those people finally started rising into a middle class they could not have aspired to in previous generations.

Little housepainter is, of course, pushing government policies that reverse many generations of that trend, in the name of "spreading the wealth around" or other disguises for govt theft.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Yep..that is the typical liberal mindset.
You have to remember, to the liberal - the exchange never mattered. Lowering cost never mattered...if 10,000 people signed up, and 9950 of them were unpaid medicare additions - liberals would consider this a success.
Obamacare was never about lowering cost, reigning in outrageous insurance premiums, eroding coverage, addressing TORT, improving healthcare etc. etc. etc.
Obamacare was the first step in socializing healthcare.
Period.

The first step was the VA, then Medicare, then Medicaid, and now Obamacare. We are on our way, to what other modern Western nations have had, some for decades.

truly laughable; the so-called entitlment programs have over $100 TRILLION in unfunded mandates; Medicaid is rife with waste fraud and abuse; obamacare is failing as we speak

and THIS is your case for more government programs?

lol

It needs to be one system, Universal Single-Payer basic public healthcare. It's good for society and capitalism, but it's not going to be great for everyone, just the vast majority.

And if you still have the cash, you can buy whatever you like. It's not Communist, even that has a Black Market, it's Socialized Medicine, meaning Society. Everybody into the pool and we swim for it. It's a not a Utopia, it's a good way of getting a great bang for our collective buck.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

By "you", little housepainter means government, not the people.

That makes him completely wrong, of course.

The economy sucks when the people don't spread the cash around... by buying, selling, and working.

Government has little to do with such activities... except to the degree it can prevent them, by taxation and restriction (the only powers government has).

Government creates the Middle Class. It's not natural to Capitalism.

Looks like little housepainter is continuing his 0-for-everything record of being wrong.

In fact, capitalism created the middle class, by providing the only means by which formerly-poor people could work their way up, AND a concrete incentive to do so.

Capitalism is merely commerce with no interference from government, except the obvious needs of criminal prosecution and contract enforcement. Finally landlords, kneecappers and unrestrained revenooers could no longer take everything that people managed to accumulate, and those people finally started rising into a middle class they could not have aspired to in previous generations.

Little housepainter is, of course, pushing government policies that reverse many generations of that trend, in the name of "spreading the wealth around" or other disguises for govt theft.

You don't understand Capitalism, but that's to be expected. Very few here do. Even less so Marxism.

 

[kaz]

It still came from Heritage and now you dont like it...after you did....for 10 years.

The GOP spent 10 years building that house of cards then Obama says "Nice House" and republicans put their boot thru it

The Heritage foundation and Newt only advocated a fine for not having healthcare, Obamacare is far beyond that, none of which they ever advocated.

Ok responsebot

You ignored what I said, so I repeated it. You keep stating incorrectly that the entire obamacare proposal was by Republicans, it wasn't, only the one piece was.

There is also no relevance to it, you're just deflecting.

 

[kaz]

Government creates the Middle Class. It's not natural to Capitalism.

Looks like little housepainter is continuing his 0-for-everything record of being wrong.

In fact, capitalism created the middle class, by providing the only means by which formerly-poor people could work their way up, AND a concrete incentive to do so.

Capitalism is merely commerce with no interference from government, except the obvious needs of criminal prosecution and contract enforcement. Finally landlords, kneecappers and unrestrained revenooers could no longer take everything that people managed to accumulate, and those people finally started rising into a middle class they could not have aspired to in previous generations.

Little housepainter is, of course, pushing government policies that reverse many generations of that trend, in the name of "spreading the wealth around" or other disguises for govt theft.

You don't understand Capitalism, but that's to be expected. Very few here do. Even less so Marxism.

Capitalism is simply economic freedom. It's where the players in a market (suppliers & consumers) make their own choices.

Communism refers to interestingly enough ... principles of the communist manifesto ... Which is why Democrats are communists, they adhere not only to the principles, but use the same anti-capitalist, anti-rich rhetoric to justify it.

 

[ClosedCaption]

The Heritage foundation and Newt only advocated a fine for not having healthcare, Obamacare is far beyond that, none of which they ever advocated.

Ok responsebot

You ignored what I said, so I repeated it. You keep stating incorrectly that the entire obamacare proposal was by Republicans, it wasn't, only the one piece was.

There is also no relevance to it, you're just deflecting.

Who besides you said this? When you cant find it stop putting words in my mouth and pretending to debate me

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Looks like little housepainter is continuing his 0-for-everything record of being wrong.

In fact, capitalism created the middle class, by providing the only means by which formerly-poor people could work their way up, AND a concrete incentive to do so.

Capitalism is merely commerce with no interference from government, except the obvious needs of criminal prosecution and contract enforcement. Finally landlords, kneecappers and unrestrained revenooers could no longer take everything that people managed to accumulate, and those people finally started rising into a middle class they could not have aspired to in previous generations.

Little housepainter is, of course, pushing government policies that reverse many generations of that trend, in the name of "spreading the wealth around" or other disguises for govt theft.

You don't understand Capitalism, but that's to be expected. Very few here do. Even less so Marxism.

Capitalism is simply economic freedom. It's where the players in a market (suppliers & consumers) make their own choices.

Communism refers to interestingly enough ... principles of the communist manifesto ... Which is why Democrats are communists, they adhere not only to the principles, but use the same anti-capitalist, anti-rich rhetoric to justify it.

Case in point, no understanding of either.

 

[kaz]

Ok responsebot

You ignored what I said, so I repeated it. You keep stating incorrectly that the entire obamacare proposal was by Republicans, it wasn't, only the one piece was.

There is also no relevance to it, you're just deflecting.

Who besides you said this? When you cant find it stop putting words in my mouth and pretending to debate me

LOL, it was in the quote, dumb ass...

It still came from Heritage and now you dont like it...after you did....for 10 years.

The GOP spent 10 years building that house of cards then Obama says "Nice House" and republicans put their boot thru it

Seriously, you don't even remember what you just argued?

 

[kaz]

You don't understand Capitalism, but that's to be expected. Very few here do. Even less so Marxism.

Capitalism is simply economic freedom. It's where the players in a market (suppliers & consumers) make their own choices.

Communism refers to interestingly enough ... principles of the communist manifesto ... Which is why Democrats are communists, they adhere not only to the principles, but use the same anti-capitalist, anti-rich rhetoric to justify it.

Case in point, no understanding of either.

I was allowing you to demonstrate you are full of it. You did.

Capitalism is free markets, not sure how you're squirming out of that one, but what's funnier is that you don't know that the Communist Manifesto is the basis for communism. I always know when I see Dr. Strangelove, there won't be any content under it.

Just to expand your demonstration, so what do you believe the definition of each is?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Capitalism is simply economic freedom. It's where the players in a market (suppliers & consumers) make their own choices.

Communism refers to interestingly enough ... principles of the communist manifesto ... Which is why Democrats are communists, they adhere not only to the principles, but use the same anti-capitalist, anti-rich rhetoric to justify it.

Case in point, no understanding of either.

I was allowing you to demonstrate you are full of it. You did.

Capitalism is free markets, not sure how you're squirming out of that one, but what's funnier is that you don't know that the Communist Manifesto is the basis for communism. I always know when I see Dr. Strangelove, there won't be any content under it.

Just to expand your demonstration, so what do you believe the definition of each is?

I'm not squirming out of anything. I'm telling you that your Sunday School versions of economics systems are not reality. Both Capitalism and Marxism are things you obviously know nothing about, which means you haven't studied them, like most here.

 

[kaz]

Case in point, no understanding of either.

I was allowing you to demonstrate you are full of it. You did.

Capitalism is free markets, not sure how you're squirming out of that one, but what's funnier is that you don't know that the Communist Manifesto is the basis for communism. I always know when I see Dr. Strangelove, there won't be any content under it.

Just to expand your demonstration, so what do you believe the definition of each is?

I'm not squirming out of anything. I'm telling you that your Sunday School versions of economics systems are not reality. Both Capitalism and Marxism are things you obviously know nothing about, which means you haven't studied them, like most here.

I'm an MBA in Finance and career manager, management consultant, and now a business owner. I worked on Wall Street both for financial services firms and management consulting firms. So your claim I haven't studied them is wrong.

So man up and back up what you're arguing they are. I'm particularly interested in your calling BS to my stating Communism is defined by the Communist Manifesto. Grow a pair, back it up, and stop running, coward.

 

[Jarhead]

1. They are missing their own projections of needed sign ups to support the bill by nearly 2 million.

3. The law has cost more people their insurance tjan uninsureds it has helped.

4. Major portions of the law have been arbitrarily changed or delayed without congressional approval.

5. By all reports unless you're indigent or cheat the system your payments are likely to increase, some dramatically.

6. Democrats up for election are running AWAY from it. Some say it's changed so much it's not the bill they voted for (blatant lies)

7. It is going to increase our debt massivly.


Where are the successes?

You need to understand something.....

The bar of success was set at the very beginning.

The fact that he, as a black man was elected president was considered a great success.

Now, hear me out....

A Harvard Grad with a strong political team was elected President....and apparently that was a great success...and they attributed it to Obama...

When, in fact....

It was a success for the American Electorate. Not Obama. We, the people, elected a black man as President for the first time...and somehow it is a great success for HIM.

From that moment on, he has been successful at everything he does in the eyes of the left.

 

[ClosedCaption]

You ignored what I said, so I repeated it. You keep stating incorrectly that the entire obamacare proposal was by Republicans, it wasn't, only the one piece was.

There is also no relevance to it, you're just deflecting.

Who besides you said this? When you cant find it stop putting words in my mouth and pretending to debate me

LOL, it was in the quote, dumb ass...

It still came from Heritage and now you dont like it...after you did....for 10 years.

The GOP spent 10 years building that house of cards then Obama says "Nice House" and republicans put their boot thru it

Seriously, you don't even remember what you just argued?

Entire? You said that. The GOP loved this plan (not Obamas ENTIRE plan) until Obama liked it.

So when someone says where did ACA come from the answer is the Heritage Foundation or if you want to be petty...A significant amount of it but not all of it was rooted in the plan approved by the Heritage Foundation

 

[kaz]

Who besides you said this? When you cant find it stop putting words in my mouth and pretending to debate me

LOL, it was in the quote, dumb ass...

It still came from Heritage and now you dont like it...after you did....for 10 years.

The GOP spent 10 years building that house of cards then Obama says "Nice House" and republicans put their boot thru it

Seriously, you don't even remember what you just argued?

Entire? You said that. The GOP loved this plan (not Obamas ENTIRE plan) until Obama liked it.

So when someone says where did ACA come from the answer is the Heritage Foundation or if you want to be petty...A significant amount of it but not all of it was rooted in the plan approved by the Heritage Foundation

The only part that was in the Heritage foundation was the fine. Which they backed off years ago as an inappropriate use of government power. Newt also at one point thought of the fine, but backed off for the same reason.

You keep stating that Obamacare was a product of conservatives, which is wrong both because they supported only one feature of it and all conservatives are not responsible for the brain farts of a couple of conservatives or a conservative group.

What difference does it make anyway? Neither the Heritage foundation nor Newt gave us the fine or the rest of Obamacare, the leftists Obama and the Democratic party did. Every Republican voted against it. It's on you whether you like it or not.

 

[bendog]

Well, the gop, at one time, also supported state insurance exchanges. The gop's also supported Medicaid expansion.

HOWEVER, personally I find these 'he said she said' arguments to be less than helpful. I'm not sure it's helpful to even argue over how we got to where we are. As someone else said, the law's a pig, but it's there. Where do we go next?

The gop's made proposals to move less from mandates to tax credits, which overall may be better, but this time, let's see if they can raise the taxes to pay for them. but, I think it's all bs. The gop uses the ACA to say "big gummit" and hope that'll win the senate. It'll take more in 16.

 

[Rocko]

It's a stumble in the right direction. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Seems more like a huge leap in the wrong direction. Why not just target the uninsured rather than screwing up the entire system?

Ask the Heritage Foundation and the GOP support for it for a decade before Obama came around

That's bullshit. Yes, the idea was founded in the Heritage Foundation, but the idea never had broad support in the GOP.

We know what Republicans broadly support - tort reform and freeing up competition Amongst issuers in the open market.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I was allowing you to demonstrate you are full of it. You did.

Capitalism is free markets, not sure how you're squirming out of that one, but what's funnier is that you don't know that the Communist Manifesto is the basis for communism. I always know when I see Dr. Strangelove, there won't be any content under it.

Just to expand your demonstration, so what do you believe the definition of each is?

I'm not squirming out of anything. I'm telling you that your Sunday School versions of economics systems are not reality. Both Capitalism and Marxism are things you obviously know nothing about, which means you haven't studied them, like most here.

I'm an MBA in Finance and career manager, management consultant, and now a business owner. I worked on Wall Street both for financial services firms and management consulting firms. So your claim I haven't studied them is wrong.

So man up and back up what you're arguing they are. I'm particularly interested in your calling BS to my stating Communism is defined by the Communist Manifesto. Grow a pair, back it up, and stop running, coward.

What you are is a little man on the Internet, who apparently understands neither Capitalism nor Marxism. We'll leave it at that.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Seems more like a huge leap in the wrong direction. Why not just target the uninsured rather than screwing up the entire system?

Ask the Heritage Foundation and the GOP support for it for a decade before Obama came around

That's bullshit. Yes, the idea was founded in the Heritage Foundation, but the idea never had broad support in the GOP.

We know what Republicans broadly support - tort reform and freeing up competition Amongst issuers in the open market.

And a solution to the Free-Rider problem, mandatory participation.

 

[Rocko]

Ask the Heritage Foundation and the GOP support for it for a decade before Obama came around

That's bullshit. Yes, the idea was founded in the Heritage Foundation, but the idea never had broad support in the GOP.

We know what Republicans broadly support - tort reform and freeing up competition Amongst issuers in the open market.

And a solution to the Free-Rider problem, mandatory participation.

The idea of any kind of mandate has never been part of the republican platform.

 

[candycorn]

1. They are missing their own projections of needed sign ups to support the bill by nearly 2 million.

3. The law has cost more people their insurance tjan uninsureds it has helped.

4. Major portions of the law have been arbitrarily changed or delayed without congressional approval.

5. By all reports unless you're indigent or cheat the system your payments are likely to increase, some dramatically.

6. Democrats up for election are running AWAY from it. Some say it's changed so much it's not the bill they voted for (blatant lies)

7. It is going to increase our debt massivly.


Where are the successes?

You need to understand something.....

The bar of success was set at the very beginning.

The fact that he, as a black man was elected president was considered a great success.

Now, hear me out....

A Harvard Grad with a strong political team was elected President....and apparently that was a great success...and they attributed it to Obama...

When, in fact....

It was a success for the American Electorate. Not Obama. We, the people, elected a black man as President for the first time...and somehow it is a great success for HIM.

From that moment on, he has been successful at everything he does in the eyes of the left.

I am from the left and I can assure you that few (if any) see "everything" Obama does as a good idea; much less a success. That Dental and Visual aren't part of the ACA is ridiculous. That all policies (that I saw anyway) have to have some sort of maternity coverage is stupid. The whole Syria thing was crazy. The Trayvon Martin and "beer summit" things were stuff that he should have stayed out of. And as I stated many times, he doesn't seem to understand the power of his office.