Why does the left think the Constitution applies to non-Americans?

[kaz]

Gotcha, the Constitution was a suicide pact.

So what Constitutional right were non-Citizens deprived of?

They weren't deprived of anything, the people in question were barred entry which isn't a Constitutionally Protected right, if you're barred entry you're not legally on U.S. Soil so for lack of a better phrase you're in "International Waters" a situation which (If I'm not mistaken) affords them international treaty protections but nothing with respect to the U.S. Constitution.

IMHO The left's argument regarding this EO is incredibly specious since it was the Obama Administration that put together the list of 7 Nations and they did it for a very good reason; the Nations on that list either do not have the systems in place or have proven to be unwilling to properly screen travelers and share that screening information with the United States (they're also historically origination points for radical Islamic Terrorist and/or state sponsors of Terrorism) which makes them a PERFECT origination point for those wishing to commit violence and other criminal acts on U.S. Soil. The only reason the Obama Administration didn't issue the same EO that Trump did was they didn't want to face the political backlash from their own party, in other words, they knowing allowed this incredibly risky situation to continue unabated for political reasons.

What was this "incredibly dangerous situation" that Obama left us in?

THe "incredibly dangerous situation" that Obama left us in is terrorists flooding into our country by the hundreds.

You really got to chill out. Where oh where are these terrorists of yours?

The guy who says we need to be legal scholars to have an opinion says we need to chill out, LOL. What a dumb ass.

Here's an idea, Google what a message board is, dumb ass

 

[kaz]

Gotcha, the Constitution was a suicide pact.

So what Constitutional right were non-Citizens deprived of?

What part of this are you having trouble with?
"nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"

The part I have a problem with is your belief that it applies to foreigners who aren't on American soil. They aren't "within it's jurisdiction."

are u a legal scholar?

I think even a snowflake moron can understand what "within its jurisdiction" means. Furthermore, the SC has already ruled on this issue. It said Trump is within his authority to ban any group he wants for whatever reason he wants.

What supreme court ruling are you referring to? Please be specific

You don't know what "jurisdiction" means? Seriously?

 

[bripat9643]

What part of this are you having trouble with?
"nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"

The part I have a problem with is your belief that it applies to foreigners who aren't on American soil. They aren't "within it's jurisdiction."

are u a legal scholar?

I think even a snowflake moron can understand what "within its jurisdiction" means. Furthermore, the SC has already ruled on this issue. It said Trump is within his authority to ban any group he wants for whatever reason he wants.

What supreme court ruling are you referring to? Please be specific

You don't know what "jurisdiction" means? Seriously?

It means whatever his marxist sociology professor says it means, apparently.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

LOL and on cue they show up to reveal their lack o knowledge on the Constitution

Ever read the 14th Amendment, Bi-Catfish?

Here it is:
Section 1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I put what you failed to consider in red text and underlined it.

How about those apples?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Gotcha, the Constitution was a suicide pact.

So what Constitutional right were non-Citizens deprived of?

They weren't deprived of anything, the people in question were barred entry which isn't a Constitutionally Protected right, if you're barred entry you're not legally on U.S. Soil so for lack of a better phrase you're in "International Waters" a situation which (If I'm not mistaken) affords them international treaty protections but nothing with respect to the U.S. Constitution.

IMHO The left's argument regarding this EO is incredibly specious since it was the Obama Administration that put together the list of 7 Nations and they did it for a very good reason; the Nations on that list either do not have the systems in place or have proven to be unwilling to properly screen travelers and share that screening information with the United States (they're also historically origination points for radical Islamic Terrorist and/or state sponsors of Terrorism) which makes them a PERFECT origination point for those wishing to commit violence and other criminal acts on U.S. Soil. The only reason the Obama Administration didn't issue the same EO that Trump did was they didn't want to face the political backlash from their own party, in other words, they knowing allowed this incredibly risky situation to continue unabated for political reasons.

What was this "incredibly dangerous situation" that Obama left us in?

Which part about not doing anything about Nations that his own administration determined were not only inadequately screening and sharing said screening of travelers to the United States but are also historical origination points for radical IslamicTerrorists and/or State Sponsors of Terrorism other than making a list of them didn't you understand?

Their screening was strengthened, and they disallowed Brits and other friendly Nation's citizens from coming without going through the visa process if they were duel citizens from those countries, they stopped any Brit or friendly country citizens from coming here if they had traveled to any of those countries within the past 6 years, from coming here on a Visa Waiver, and made them go through the 18 month to 2 year plus, visa vetting process.

WHAT did Trump do to make us safer? He extended the process for 90 days? WOW! Did he tell us how they were going to strengthen the vetting process, or what they were going to do to make it stronger during those 90 days or even some sort of plan and why those 90 days was going to make a difference on these people?

and again, 15 of the 19 Sept 11th terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, and the San Bernadino wife was from Pakistan, and neither of those two countries were put on President Trump's ban.....and please, none of this blame Obama for Trump's fiasco.

It was hasty, it was ill advised and ill planned, and meant to cause chaos, for the ratings.....

Learn the difference in "dual "and "duel" lest you appear to be an ignorant troll. Oh, never mind! You are!

 

[kaz]

Gotcha, the Constitution was a suicide pact.

So what Constitutional right were non-Citizens deprived of?

They weren't deprived of anything, the people in question were barred entry which isn't a Constitutionally Protected right, if you're barred entry you're not legally on U.S. Soil so for lack of a better phrase you're in "International Waters" a situation which (If I'm not mistaken) affords them international treaty protections but nothing with respect to the U.S. Constitution.

IMHO The left's argument regarding this EO is incredibly specious since it was the Obama Administration that put together the list of 7 Nations and they did it for a very good reason; the Nations on that list either do not have the systems in place or have proven to be unwilling to properly screen travelers and share that screening information with the United States (they're also historically origination points for radical Islamic Terrorist and/or state sponsors of Terrorism) which makes them a PERFECT origination point for those wishing to commit violence and other criminal acts on U.S. Soil. The only reason the Obama Administration didn't issue the same EO that Trump did was they didn't want to face the political backlash from their own party, in other words, they knowing allowed this incredibly risky situation to continue unabated for political reasons.

What was this "incredibly dangerous situation" that Obama left us in?

Which part about not doing anything about Nations that his own administration determined were not only inadequately screening and sharing said screening of travelers to the United States but are also historical origination points for radical IslamicTerrorists and/or State Sponsors of Terrorism other than making a list of them didn't you understand?

Their screening was strengthened, and they disallowed Brits and other friendly Nation's citizens from coming without going through the visa process if they were duel citizens from those countries, they stopped any Brit or friendly country citizens from coming here if they had traveled to any of those countries within the past 6 years, from coming here on a Visa Waiver, and made them go through the 18 month to 2 year plus, visa vetting process.

WHAT did Trump do to make us safer? He extended the process for 90 days? WOW! Did he tell us how they were going to strengthen the vetting process, or what they were going to do to make it stronger during those 90 days or even some sort of plan and why those 90 days was going to make a difference on these people?

and again, 15 of the 19 Sept 11th terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, and the San Bernadino wife was from Pakistan, and neither of those two countries were put on President Trump's ban.....and please, none of this blame Obama for Trump's fiasco.

It was hasty, it was ill advised and ill planned, and meant to cause chaos, for the ratings.....

Learn the difference in "dual "and "duel" lest you appear to be an ignorant troll. Oh, never mind! You are!

Boo! I love ya man and agree with you most of the time. But spelling posts on message boards are just lame

 

[G.T.]

but its not the left who thinks the rights are endowed by the creator

but like...i can see anyone being a hypocrite who thinks theyre from a creator.......

but only for Americans

 

[paperview]

Yes and no, the Supreme Court has held for more than a century that non-citizens on US soil are entitled to Constitutional Protections that are not expressly reserved for Citizens, the primary application of which has been sourced in the 14th Amendment's "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws" and the 5th Amendments "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury", in other words foreign nationals on American Soil are "persons" and thus entitled to Constitutional Protections explicitly set aside for "person" (but not those explicitly set aside for "citizen"). Things get a little foggier where the Constitution refers to protections set aside for "the people" though such as First and Fourth Amendment protections although the court has tended to interpret those protections to also apply to non-citizens on US Soil as well.

Of course this wouldn't apply to foreign nationals that have been explicitly barred entry since they aren't legally on American Soil anyways.

"nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws""

That is indeed the phrase in question.

Winner winner ^
Chicken Dinner!


"

Gotcha, the Constitution was a suicide pact.

So what Constitutional right were non-Citizens deprived of?

What part of this are you having trouble with?
"nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"

The part I have a problem with is your belief that it applies to foreigners who aren't on American soil. They aren't "within it's jurisdiction."

That's not my belief, retard idiot.
"within its jurisdiction" are those on American soil.

 

[bripat9643]

"nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws""

That is indeed the phrase in question.

Winner winner ^
Chicken Dinner!


"

Gotcha, the Constitution was a suicide pact.

So what Constitutional right were non-Citizens deprived of?

What part of this are you having trouble with?
"nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"

The part I have a problem with is your belief that it applies to foreigners who aren't on American soil. They aren't "within it's jurisdiction."

That's not my belief, retard idiot.
"within its jurisdiction" are those on American soil.

Then you admit that Trump's Immigration EO is perfectly constitutional.

 

[Slyhunter]

So, none of righties are willing to show us where the Constitution says it doesn't apply to non-citizens on US soil.

Not every righty is an intellectual coward ... no, wait, all of them are.

No where in the constitution does it say it doesn't apply to Martians, or God, so what's your point?
If it's not specifically stated it isn't covered and non-citizens are not explicitly stated.

 

[danielpalos]

I keep hearing this asinine argument from the left and it drives me nuts. Where in the hell do they get this concept that our Constitution is supposed to apply to everyone in the world and not just American citizens? Over and over, we come up on this issue of constitutionality and they consistently want to apply it to people who aren't subject to it. We cannot enforce our Constitution worldwide so we can't apply it that way. It's really as simple as that.

Then they want to make this silly argument about being "on American soil" ...as if, a radical jihadist could parachute into the country and as soon as his feet hits the ground he has instantaneous constitutional rights! That's not how it works. We are a humane nation who believes in basic human rights for everyone, and so we believe in treating people in accordance with basic human decency but that has nothing to do with constitutional rights. It is only the citizens of the United States who are protected by the Constitution. And guess what else? That's not ALWAYS an absolute!

Many of our constitutional rights have limitations and restrictions. If an American citizen travels to Mexico and returns, they aren't protected by the 4th Amendment against being searched and having property seized. We suspend that right at the border for national security reasons. We've determined that is "reasonable" and so the Amendment doesn't apply. And that's for an American citizen who IS protected by the Constitution!

There is nothing unconstitutional about Trump's executive order on restricting entry into the US. The President has plenary power granted under the Constitution and many presidents before him have used precisely the same plenary power to do the same thing. It's not a "Muslim ban" but guess what else? He's within his authority to make it one if he wants to! There is no restriction on this, the President has plenary power and he can make this effective for any country or ALL countries if he so chooses. He can make it against a specific religion... he can make it against people with red hair! There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits him in any way with this. You may not LIKE it... but he has that authority under the Constitution.

Just more right wing national socialism?

Our federal Constitution was Intelligently Designed to be Both, gender and race neutral, from Inception.

We have Government, limited by our Constitution.

 

[Care4all]

the constitution applies to everyone on our soil....do some reading up on it.

HINT-this is why we had to set up GITMO, off our soil....

But they are NOT on our soil!

Catch a clue!

I didn't say they were.... I simply was answering the question in the Title of this thread....and went in to it more in my next post after this one....

 

[mgh80]

The Constitutions applies to Americans and LEGAL immigrants/tourists. This should be obvious.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

the constitution applies to everyone on our soil....do some reading up on it.

HINT-this is why we had to set up GITMO, off our soil....

But they are NOT on our soil!

Catch a clue!

I didn't say they were.... I simply was answering the question in the Title of this thread....and went in to it more in my next post after this one....

If that were the case, why didn't you just agree and move on?

 

[Care4all]

Gotcha, the Constitution was a suicide pact.

So what Constitutional right were non-Citizens deprived of?

They weren't deprived of anything, the people in question were barred entry which isn't a Constitutionally Protected right, if you're barred entry you're not legally on U.S. Soil so for lack of a better phrase you're in "International Waters" a situation which (If I'm not mistaken) affords them international treaty protections but nothing with respect to the U.S. Constitution.

IMHO The left's argument regarding this EO is incredibly specious since it was the Obama Administration that put together the list of 7 Nations and they did it for a very good reason; the Nations on that list either do not have the systems in place or have proven to be unwilling to properly screen travelers and share that screening information with the United States (they're also historically origination points for radical Islamic Terrorist and/or state sponsors of Terrorism) which makes them a PERFECT origination point for those wishing to commit violence and other criminal acts on U.S. Soil. The only reason the Obama Administration didn't issue the same EO that Trump did was they didn't want to face the political backlash from their own party, in other words, they knowing allowed this incredibly risky situation to continue unabated for political reasons.

What was this "incredibly dangerous situation" that Obama left us in?

Which part about not doing anything about Nations that his own administration determined were not only inadequately screening and sharing said screening of travelers to the United States but are also historical origination points for radical IslamicTerrorists and/or State Sponsors of Terrorism other than making a list of them didn't you understand?

Their screening was strengthened, and they disallowed Brits and other friendly Nation's citizens from coming without going through the visa process if they were duel citizens from those countries, they stopped any Brit or friendly country citizens from coming here if they had traveled to any of those countries within the past 6 years, from coming here on a Visa Waiver, and made them go through the 18 month to 2 year plus, visa vetting process.

WHAT did Trump do to make us safer? He extended the process for 90 days? WOW! Did he tell us how they were going to strengthen the vetting process, or what they were going to do to make it stronger during those 90 days or even some sort of plan and why those 90 days was going to make a difference on these people?

and again, 15 of the 19 Sept 11th terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, and the San Bernadino wife was from Pakistan, and neither of those two countries were put on President Trump's ban.....and please, none of this blame Obama for Trump's fiasco.

It was hasty, it was ill advised and ill planned, and meant to cause chaos, for the ratings.....

Learn the difference in "dual "and "duel" lest you appear to be an ignorant troll. Oh, never mind! You are!

Boy you are on a real roll....who would have thunk you would post something so empty, just to get your post count up? You're fitting right in with rest of your RW counterparts...

 

[Care4all]

the constitution applies to everyone on our soil....do some reading up on it.

HINT-this is why we had to set up GITMO, off our soil....

But they are NOT on our soil!

Catch a clue!

I didn't say they were.... I simply was answering the question in the Title of this thread....and went in to it more in my next post after this one....

If that were the case, why didn't you just agree and move on?

I didn't know what the op was about, thought the question in the title was simply an off the wall new alternative fact another rightwinger on USMB was creating in their own mental universe again....

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They weren't deprived of anything, the people in question were barred entry which isn't a Constitutionally Protected right, if you're barred entry you're not legally on U.S. Soil so for lack of a better phrase you're in "International Waters" a situation which (If I'm not mistaken) affords them international treaty protections but nothing with respect to the U.S. Constitution.

IMHO The left's argument regarding this EO is incredibly specious since it was the Obama Administration that put together the list of 7 Nations and they did it for a very good reason; the Nations on that list either do not have the systems in place or have proven to be unwilling to properly screen travelers and share that screening information with the United States (they're also historically origination points for radical Islamic Terrorist and/or state sponsors of Terrorism) which makes them a PERFECT origination point for those wishing to commit violence and other criminal acts on U.S. Soil. The only reason the Obama Administration didn't issue the same EO that Trump did was they didn't want to face the political backlash from their own party, in other words, they knowing allowed this incredibly risky situation to continue unabated for political reasons.

What was this "incredibly dangerous situation" that Obama left us in?

Which part about not doing anything about Nations that his own administration determined were not only inadequately screening and sharing said screening of travelers to the United States but are also historical origination points for radical IslamicTerrorists and/or State Sponsors of Terrorism other than making a list of them didn't you understand?

Their screening was strengthened, and they disallowed Brits and other friendly Nation's citizens from coming without going through the visa process if they were duel citizens from those countries, they stopped any Brit or friendly country citizens from coming here if they had traveled to any of those countries within the past 6 years, from coming here on a Visa Waiver, and made them go through the 18 month to 2 year plus, visa vetting process.

WHAT did Trump do to make us safer? He extended the process for 90 days? WOW! Did he tell us how they were going to strengthen the vetting process, or what they were going to do to make it stronger during those 90 days or even some sort of plan and why those 90 days was going to make a difference on these people?

and again, 15 of the 19 Sept 11th terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, and the San Bernadino wife was from Pakistan, and neither of those two countries were put on President Trump's ban.....and please, none of this blame Obama for Trump's fiasco.

It was hasty, it was ill advised and ill planned, and meant to cause chaos, for the ratings.....

Learn the difference in "dual "and "duel" lest you appear to be an ignorant troll. Oh, never mind! You are!

Boy you are on a real roll....who would have thunk you would post something so empty, just to get your post count up? You're fitting right in with rest of your RW counterparts...

Who cares about a post count? I just hate stupidity and you are apparently a living, breathing example. Your posts are trash. They are lacking in logic, common sense and mostly absent of facts.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

the constitution applies to everyone on our soil....do some reading up on it.

HINT-this is why we had to set up GITMO, off our soil....

But they are NOT on our soil!

Catch a clue!

I didn't say they were.... I simply was answering the question in the Title of this thread....and went in to it more in my next post after this one....

If that were the case, why didn't you just agree and move on?

I didn't know what the op was about, thought the question in the title was simply an off the wall new alternative fact another rightwinger on USMB was creating in their own mental universe again....

So you admit to being full of shit. Got it! Why didn't you just say so?

 

[MAfarmgirl]

It's because the Constitution doesn't say it applies only to citizens. It applies to everyone in the USA.

That is, the lefties actually follow the Constitution, and the righties don't.

And, looking at this thread, the righties here are all very proud of not following the Constitution.

It applies to any one on American soil, but non-citizens however do not have the right to vote, to hold a federal job, or run for political office.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Why does the left think the Constitution applies to non-Americans?

Well, I hate to highlight the obvious, but.....