Why does the reactionary right want the world economy to fail?

[Big Fitz]

I said it didn't put anyone out of business. That's a negative statement. It cannot be proven. Yet between the two of us, neither of us can cite an example of a business that went under because of the acid rain program.

If you'd like to read scholarly works on the economic aspects of the program, try Google scholar. I doubt you'll put forth the effort, because you, like myself, probably don't have time to become an expert at everything.

The primary affected industry is coal burning power plants. I feel like you have failed to even try to understand anything on your own, as it should be obvious as to why moving coal burning power plants overseas doesn't really work if you're trying to sell power to people in the U.S. Seriously, your above comment is just stupid.

No, it's not a "negative statement". Businesses surviving regulations are very provable.

You want me to PROVE that coal burning power plants are still in business?


.
Great. Try Google scholar. enjoy!

As for the coal burning power plants, look at how many are in operation now versus pre-regulation and what those businesses profit margin is if you can. I am quite certain you will find a distinct decline in correlation with the regulations.

What makes you quite certain?

Case in point, Big Stone 2 Power Plant, an SD coal burning plant has been stopped precisely because of these kinds of out of control ecofascist regulations. Frivilous lawsuits, econazi protests and civil stupidity have stopped a project that would have provided thousands of jobs in a semi-remote area that would also allow for the expanding of the electrical grid's security in this nation. A net positive good for society. And this was to be a relatively clean construction that was going to be profitable IN SPITE of the regulations choking the industry that is desperate for more capacity.

You're the fool here. The evidence is hanging off your ass with it's jaws firmly locked.

They are building a natural gas generation facility instead.

MDU plans natural gas pipeline

I fail to see the problem. In fact it seems to have worked out great. They still generate the power, still provide the jobs, and the pollutants are greatly reduced compared to coal.

Do jobs not count if they come from a natural gas power plant?

The cost to get the same amount of power from Natural Gas as compared to coal is about 3 times as expensive. Electric companies use Natural Gas for peaking plants, not for standard long term usage that forms the backbone of every electric grid.

Oh and here's a list of pressure put on coal fired plants to close. I know of a few of these personally which have been closed on this list because of the econazi regs. Nope. No impact here.

Retrofit vs. Phase-Out of Coal-Fired Power Plants - SourceWatch

So much for 'you cant prove plant closures' theory.

Oh, and pipelines are notorious attractors of frivolous lawsuits from econazi nutballs looking to return us to a hunter gatherer society.

So prove your allegation that there has been a zero or net positive impact on the economy through stifling regulations. Money that could have gone to expansion now rerouted to buying expensive superfluous equipment helps the economy like vandals busting windows.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No, it's not a "negative statement". Businesses surviving regulations are very provable.

You want me to PROVE that coal burning power plants are still in business?


.
Great. Try Google scholar. enjoy!


What makes you quite certain?

Case in point, Big Stone 2 Power Plant, an SD coal burning plant has been stopped precisely because of these kinds of out of control ecofascist regulations. Frivilous lawsuits, econazi protests and civil stupidity have stopped a project that would have provided thousands of jobs in a semi-remote area that would also allow for the expanding of the electrical grid's security in this nation. A net positive good for society. And this was to be a relatively clean construction that was going to be profitable IN SPITE of the regulations choking the industry that is desperate for more capacity.

You're the fool here. The evidence is hanging off your ass with it's jaws firmly locked.

They are building a natural gas generation facility instead.

MDU plans natural gas pipeline

I fail to see the problem. In fact it seems to have worked out great. They still generate the power, still provide the jobs, and the pollutants are greatly reduced compared to coal.

Do jobs not count if they come from a natural gas power plant?

The cost to get the same amount of power from Natural Gas as compared to coal is about 3 times as expensive.

Only when you include the cost of the energy. You're excluding the costs of acid rain and other pollution associated with coal fired plants.

Electric companies use Natural Gas for peaking plants, not for standard long term usage that forms the backbone of every electric grid.

They can use combined cycle natural gas for baseload production.

Oh and here's a list of pressure put on coal fired plants to close. I know of a few of these personally which have been closed on this list because of the econazi regs. Nope. No impact here.

Retrofit vs. Phase-Out of Coal-Fired Power Plants - SourceWatch

[/quote]

Those aren't emissions trading regulations. Different regs.

So much for 'you cant prove plant closures' theory.

Oh, and pipelines are notorious attractors of frivolous lawsuits from econazi nutballs looking to return us to a hunter gatherer society.

Wow, you're such a whiny bitch. Don't spill shit on the ground and you won't be liable. Jeez.

BTW, pipelines are also notorious providers of jobs.

So prove your allegation that there has been a zero or net positive impact on the economy through stifling regulations. Money that could have gone to expansion now rerouted to buying expensive superfluous equipment helps the economy like vandals busting windows.

That's not my "allegation" - my claim was only in reference to the emissions trading schemes for sulfur and nitrous oxide, not for ALL regulations. I'm sorry if you got confused.

 

[Avatar4321]

Why does the reactionary right want the world economy to fail? Seriously, why?

We don't. Which is precisely why we've been telling people to live within their means and advocating for a balanced budget for the past 10 years.

It be nice if our leaders from either party would listen.

 

[oreo]

Why does the reactionary right want the world economy to fail? Seriously, why?

Is this a real topic thread?---:

It's fairly common practice to explain in detail as to what you're talking about.

 

[Unkotare]

Only when you include the cost of the energy. You're excluding the costs of acid rain and other pollution associated with coal fired plants..

How do you put a price on tears...

 

[Chris]

There are so many stupid fucking threads posted on here lately I think I'm getting dumber from just reading them.

I know, it's amazing that they actually believe what comes out of there mouths, the left has done really good at indoctrinating these people. It's almost scary...well.....for the future of America it IS terrifying.

Unlike you, I believe in America.

It was Wall Street's derivatives Ponzi scheme that destroyed the world economy.

Just like 1929.

Unregulated capitalism is the Mafia.

 

[likeabird03]

We don't want the world economy to fail. Are you leftist nuts absolutely incapable of making an argument without asserting a made up stance about the other side? It's childish and pathetic.

The problem is that you think Government is the economy and that shrinking the size of government somehow means the economy ceases to exists, an insecure bunch you all are - not an individualist thought in your head.

 

[Chris]

We don't want the world economy to fail. Are you leftist nuts absolutely incapable of making an argument without asserting a made up stance about the other side? It's childish and pathetic.

The problem is that you think Government is the economy and that shrinking the size of government somehow means the economy ceases to exists, an insecure bunch you all are - not an individualist thought in your head.

That's silly.

The best economies are when the private and the public sector work together for a common goal.

Money spent on education, healthcare, technology, research, and infrastructure is what drives an economy.

 

[likeabird03]

We don't want the world economy to fail. Are you leftist nuts absolutely incapable of making an argument without asserting a made up stance about the other side? It's childish and pathetic.

The problem is that you think Government is the economy and that shrinking the size of government somehow means the economy ceases to exists, an insecure bunch you all are - not an individualist thought in your head.

That's silly.

The best economies are when the private and the public sector work together for a common goal.

Money spent on education, healthcare, technology, research, and infrastructure is what drives an economy.

OHH... you mean like Solyndra. Yeah that was just the best.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There are so many stupid fucking threads posted on here lately I think I'm getting dumber from just reading them.

I know, it's amazing that they actually believe what comes out of there mouths, the left has done really good at indoctrinating these people. It's almost scary...well.....for the future of America it IS terrifying.

Unlike you, I believe in America.

It was Wall Street's derivatives Ponzi scheme that destroyed the world economy.

Just like 1929.

Unregulated capitalism is the Mafia.

I can't help that you're a fucking moron.

 

[kwc57]

A better question is "Why does the reactionary left want government to rule our lives?"

We don't.

Of course you do. You want the government to confiscate the wealth of people who make more than you and redistribute it to others. Giving the government the ability to do that and trusting them to make everything better for everybody is quite simply empowering the government to control our lives......pure and simple. Better hope that teat doesn't go sour on you.

 

[The Rabbi]

We don't want the world economy to fail. Are you leftist nuts absolutely incapable of making an argument without asserting a made up stance about the other side? It's childish and pathetic.

The problem is that you think Government is the economy and that shrinking the size of government somehow means the economy ceases to exists, an insecure bunch you all are - not an individualist thought in your head.

That's silly.

The best economies are when the private and the public sector work together for a common goal.

Money spent on education, healthcare, technology, research, and infrastructure is what drives an economy.

OHH... you mean like Solyndra. Yeah that was just the best.

EVERY time government talks about "investing" in something, hold on to your wallet. Their record is essentially 0 as far as returns go. You'd have to go back to the highway program in the 1950s to find anything that actually paid off. Every other "investment" like synfuels in the 1970s or education or green energy today has been a monumental waste of taxpayer money.

 

[Big Fitz]

You want me to PROVE that coal burning power plants are still in business?


.
Great. Try Google scholar. enjoy!


What makes you quite certain?




They are building a natural gas generation facility instead.

MDU plans natural gas pipeline

I fail to see the problem. In fact it seems to have worked out great. They still generate the power, still provide the jobs, and the pollutants are greatly reduced compared to coal.

Do jobs not count if they come from a natural gas power plant?

The cost to get the same amount of power from Natural Gas as compared to coal is about 3 times as expensive.

Only when you include the cost of the energy. You're excluding the costs of acid rain and other pollution associated with coal fired plants.



They can use combined cycle natural gas for baseload production.

Those aren't emissions trading regulations. Different regs.

So much for 'you cant prove plant closures' theory.

Oh, and pipelines are notorious attractors of frivolous lawsuits from econazi nutballs looking to return us to a hunter gatherer society.

Wow, you're such a whiny bitch. Don't spill shit on the ground and you won't be liable. Jeez.

BTW, pipelines are also notorious providers of jobs.

So prove your allegation that there has been a zero or net positive impact on the economy through stifling regulations. Money that could have gone to expansion now rerouted to buying expensive superfluous equipment helps the economy like vandals busting windows.

That's not my "allegation" - my claim was only in reference to the emissions trading schemes for sulfur and nitrous oxide, not for ALL regulations. I'm sorry if you got confused.[/QUOTE]

You're excluding the costs of acid rain

And you've both proof and actual dollar amounts of this cost?

They can use combined cycle natural gas for baseload production.

So we artificially require the use of a type of energy generation that is many multiples more expensive and process cumbersome than coal? Yeah, good answer. So much for bigger, better, faster, stronger, more efficient. Now we get bigger, worse, less efficient, more expensive, weaker.

Wow, you're such a whiny bitch. Don't spill shit on the ground and you won't be liable. Jeez.

BTW, pipelines are also notorious providers of jobs.

Of course they're job providers and really not that dangerous, yet ecofascists fight to stop them constantly. The same ecofascists who forced these goddamn environmental regulations down our throat national throats claiming the lives of the downy spotted dick-pecker is worth more than the livelihoods of thousands of families.

So, you whine about how dangerous emissions are then ban out of existence what you claim are safer but more expensive forms of industry. You ecofascists are schizophrenic AND whiny bitches. You want it both ways and can't figure out how to get it yet, but you keep trying and fuck up the lives of everyone else in the process while you dither and thither for the 'perfect' source of energy, and if you can't have it, you want NO sources of energy.

 

[Big Fitz]

A better question is "Why does the reactionary left want government to rule our lives?"

We don't.

Of course you do. You want the government to confiscate the wealth of people who make more than you and redistribute it to others. Giving the government the ability to do that and trusting them to make everything better for everybody is quite simply empowering the government to control our lives......pure and simple. Better hope that teat doesn't go sour on you.

you forgot to point out they wish to be exempted from the wealth redistribution... because they be true believers and shit.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Why does the reactionary right want the world economy to fail? Seriously, why?

We don't. Which is precisely why we've been telling people to live within their means and advocating for a balanced budget for the past 10 years.

It be nice if our leaders from either party would listen.

Then why don't you understand that reduced demand is bad for an already poor economy? seems like that's econ 101 - you ought to get that

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Only when you include the cost of the energy. You're excluding the costs of acid rain and other pollution associated with coal fired plants..

How do you put a price on tears...

Acid rain increases the corrosion rates of lots of things that humans build. It corrodes steel, copper, iron and other metals at faster rates than normal, as well as limestone and marble. Things that people build cost money and the faster they have to replace them, the more money they cost in the long term.

Not to mention its deleterious effects on soil and fisheries - which is kinda an important thing since we need it to have stuff to eat.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

A better question is "Why does the reactionary left want government to rule our lives?"

We don't.

Of course you do. You want the government to confiscate the wealth of people who make more than you and redistribute it to others. Giving the government the ability to do that and trusting them to make everything better for everybody is quite simply empowering the government to control our lives......pure and simple. Better hope that teat doesn't go sour on you.

If what you suggest is true - that having government doesn't make things better - then obviously, we should get rid of government.

So you're either illogical, an anarchist, or you've misspoken. Which is it?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

We don't.

Of course you do. You want the government to confiscate the wealth of people who make more than you and redistribute it to others. Giving the government the ability to do that and trusting them to make everything better for everybody is quite simply empowering the government to control our lives......pure and simple. Better hope that teat doesn't go sour on you.

you forgot to point out they wish to be exempted from the wealth redistribution... because they be true believers and shit.

I'm fine with paying the same rate of taxation as everyone else with the same income as me.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

A better question is "Why does the reactionary left want government to rule our lives?"

We don't.

Of course you do. You want the government to confiscate the wealth of people who make more than you and redistribute it to others. Giving the government the ability to do that and trusting them to make everything better for everybody is quite simply empowering the government to control our lives......pure and simple. Better hope that teat doesn't go sour on you.

That is the mantra of the entitlement monsters... for almost their entire lives they've made the team even though they suck, they got a trophy for last place, they've been told how special they are, etc. Now reality is telling them they don't know shit and they're mad.

I love it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

We don't.

Of course you do. You want the government to confiscate the wealth of people who make more than you and redistribute it to others. Giving the government the ability to do that and trusting them to make everything better for everybody is quite simply empowering the government to control our lives......pure and simple. Better hope that teat doesn't go sour on you.

That is the mantra of the entitlement monsters... for almost their entire lives they've made the team even though they suck, they got a trophy for last place, they've been told how special they are, etc. No reality is telling them they don't know shit and their mad.

I love it.

You can't even explain your ideas in the context of actual government policy - its all one liner ad hominem and cliche.
Sad.