Why I dont post here

[jillian]

One last thing.

I wouldn't give a flying fuk if it were true that Jews selected by ethnic heritage. It's a religion. Religions are allowed to decide whom they take as members, just like every religion in OUR country gets to decide.

And this Hitler comparison you keep making is just insane. Hitler wanted to exterminate two "races," the Jews and Gypsies. Israel is not trying to exterminate anyone AND they apply their law of Return to the entire world, not just Arabs.

I'm still waiting for the loud mouthed tantrum throwing brat to answer my question about why HE'S insistent on a single state solution where Jews are subjugated and killed when Abbas is looking toward a two-state solution where everyone gets sovreignty.

I'm also waiting for him to tell us who HE is since he's so interested in what I believe or don't believe.

I also think I asked why it's okay to put a mosque over our Holy of Holies when the muslims win in battle, but when Jews win a) we have to keep the mosque; and b) we're supposed to share the country?

I'll wait... but I doubt the loud mouthed tantrum throwing brat will answer.

 

[Charles_Main]

I'm still waiting for the loud mouthed tantrum throwing brat to answer my question about why HE'S insistent on a single state solution where Jews are subjugated and killed when Abbas is looking toward a two-state solution where everyone gets sovreignty.

I'm also waiting for him to tell us who HE is since he's so interested in what I believe or don't believe.

I also think I asked why it's okay to put a mosque over our Holy of Holies when the muslims win in battle, but when Jews win a) we have to keep the mosque; and b) we're supposed to share the country?

I'll wait... but I doubt the loud mouthed tantrum throwing brat will answer.

Since we are speaking again I just have to say, awesome post Jillian. Sums up how I feel about it rather well.

 

[jillian]

Since we are speaking again I just have to say, awesome post Jillian. Sums up how I feel about it rather well.

I'm a forgiving sort... next time, simply disagree with me, though, and you might get the answers to your questions.

 

[Charles_Main]

I'm a forgiving sort... next time, simply disagree with me, though, and you might get the answers to your questions.

enough said, but then why do you keep talking to shog, man that guy throws around the insults like nobody else I know

Did you see him call ravi the C word. I about shit

 

[dilloduck]

I'm still waiting for the loud mouthed tantrum throwing brat to answer my question about why HE'S insistent on a single state solution where Jews are subjugated and killed when Abbas is looking toward a two-state solution where everyone gets sovreignty.

I'm also waiting for him to tell us who HE is since he's so interested in what I believe or don't believe.

I also think I asked why it's okay to put a mosque over our Holy of Holies when the muslims win in battle, but when Jews win a) we have to keep the mosque; and b) we're supposed to share the country?

I'll wait... but I doubt the loud mouthed tantrum throwing brat will answer.

Jews don't have to keep a mosque---blow the hell out of it !!

 

[Ravi]

enough said, but then why do you keep talking to shog, man that guy throws around the insults like nobody else I know

Did you see him call ravi the C word. I about shit

The boy has quite a temper, no? I'm kind of glad he's hiding behind his keyboard.

Even though this thread was extremely inflammatory, I actually learned quite a lot about an issue I've never understood before, either through research or from hearing everyone's views. And some of my opinions have changed...on racism, religion, the rights of other countries, the spoils of war...it's been quite interesting.

 

[Charles_Main]

The boy has quite a temper, no? I'm kind of glad he's hiding behind his keyboard.

Even though this thread was extremely inflammatory, I actually learned quite a lot about an issue I've never understood before, either through research or from hearing everyone's views. And some of my opinions have changed...on racism, religion, the rights of other countries, the spoils of war...it's been quite interesting.

He sure does, I know if I called my wife that to her face, she would rip off my wang, cook it up on the stove, and feed it to the dog.

I learned long ago I can call her a lot of names, but not that one.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Epsilon Delta
5) As for evidence that most palestinians want their own state:

Articles and polls showing the willingness of palestinians to forfeit their right to live in Western Palestine are a dime a dozen, Delta.

Unfortunately, you don’t have enough knowledge to confront these attempts to delegitimise the palestinian cause.

 

[José]

The misrepresentation of the national aspirations of the Palestinian people by the western press in order to hide the supremacist nature of Israel reminds me of Vietnam.

During 30 years, the Vietnamese who wanted to see their country reunified under the leadership of Vietnam’s greatest national hero were a small minority according to the “polls”, until April, 1975 when the American diplomatic staff left Saigon under Vietnamese artillery fire.

The overwhelming support for the right of return, or more broadly, the right of the Palestinian people to live anywhere they want in their homeland, means that anything a palestinian says about one or two states becomes a moot point.

When the vast majority of Palestinians state that forfeiting this right is not an option, they are in fact supporting a DE FACTO one state solution.

Nothing less than full access to their entire homeland will satisfy a people whose own national identity was created by that historical loss and the struggle to return to it.

The press duped you into believing the Palestinian people will someday renounce to their right to live in the land lost to Israel and you swallowed the bullshit hook, line and sinker, Delta.

 

[Charles_Main]

The misrepresentation of the national aspirations of the Palestinian people by the western press in order to hide the supremacist nature of Israel reminds me of Vietnam.

During 30 years, the Vietnamese who wanted to see their country reunified under the leadership of Vietnam’s greatest national hero were a small minority according to the “polls”, until April, 1975 when the American diplomatic staff left Saigon under Vietnamese artillery fire.

The overwhelming support for the right of return, or more broadly, the right of the Palestinian people to live anywhere they want in their homeland, means that anything a palestinian says about one or two states becomes a moot point.

When the vast majority of Palestinians state that forfeiting this right is not an option, they are in fact supporting a DE FACTO one state solution.

Nothing less than full access to their entire homeland will satisfy a people whose own national identity was created by that historical loss and the struggle to return to it.

The press duped you into believing the Palestinian people will someday renounce to their right to live in the land lost to Israel and you swallowed the bullshit hook, line and sinker, Delta.

Well it is good we have you, our resident expert on what people think, despite what they say, to correct us then.

 

[José]

Originally posted by jillian
When Abbas is looking toward a two-state solution where everyone gets sovreignty.

Good thing you can't speak Arabic because you'd go into a shaking frenzy if you heard the kind of speech Abbas makes when he visits refugee camps.

Originally posted by Charles Main
Well it is good we have you, our resident expert on what people think, despite what they say, to correct us then.

LOL

The palestinian people have always stated that the right of the refugees to live anywhere they want in Palestine is not even open for discussion.

The fact that this is news to you speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge on the palestinian people, not to mention the value of your "contribution" to this debate.

Now try to find Palestine on a map and let the big boys debate in peace.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

*Shrugs* I just go by what the majority of the polls say, as well as what the political leadership of Palestine has said (and the majority of the Arab world, and the majority of the international community bar Israel and the US). Don't get me wrong, the IDEAL would be that Israel would be a free and equal society for Jews and Palestinians alike. I just don't see it happening while the ultra-nationalist right is kept in power, building walls and settlements inside Palestine and sucking the resources out.

 

[Charles_Main]

Good thing you can't speak Arabic because you'd go into a shaking frenzy if you heard the kind of speech Abbas makes when he visits refugee camps.



LOL

The palestinian people have always stated that the right of the refugees to live anywhere they want in Palestine is not even open for discussion.

The fact that this is news to you speaks volumes about your lack of knowledge on the Palestinian people, not to mention the value of your "contribution" to this debate.

Now try to find Palestine on a map and let the big boys debate in peace.

sure sure, what ever you say BIG BOY. The Palestinians are ready to accept a 2 state solution and recognize Israels right to exist along the 67 borders, Why cant you!

 

[José]

Originally posted by Charles Main
The Palestinians are ready to accept a 2 state solution and recognize Israels right to exist along the 67 borders, Why cant you!

I'd take this information with a grain of salt since it comes from the same western media that portrays the jewish racial dictatorship as a beacon of democracy.

All these polls only impress people who have a superficial knowledge on the palestinian people. The moment you meet real palestinians they all evaporate into thin air.

Seriously, Charles. Don't take it from me. See what I'm saying for yourself. Go to any Palestinian city, village or refugee camp with a bullhorn and starts saying you think Palestinian refugees should not be allowed to return to Western Palestine and try to leave the place alive and in one piece.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

You've been to Palestine??

 

[José]

Originally posted by Epsilon Delta
*Shrugs* I just go by what the majority of the polls say, as well as what the political leadership of Palestine has said (and the majority of the Arab world, and the majority of the international community bar Israel and the US). Don't get me wrong, the IDEAL would be that Israel would be a free and equal society for Jews and Palestinians alike. I just don't see it happening while the ultra-nationalist right is kept in power, building walls and settlements inside Palestine and sucking the resources out.

Fair enough, Delta.

I don't blame us, westeners, for our ignorance on the palestinian people. I blame the wall of silence built by the western media to hide them.

Just stop for a moment and ask yourself:

How many headlines, documentaries and special reports have you seen in the western media about the daily life in palestinian refugee camps, interviews showing their opinions on Israel, dreams and aspirations?

I like to call palestinians the "invisible refugees" as opposed to the Kosovars who were too much "visible". They are an inconvenience, a nuissance to the West. Their mere existence embarasses the West.

And I didn't even begin to talk about the naked manipulation of their national aspirations by media outlets, Delta.

Let's take what we are discussing for example. The western media trumpets the fact that some palestinians agree with the existence of a palestinian state, and CONVENIENTLY forgets to say that EVEN these palestinians adamantly rejects any compromise on the right of return.

This is dishonest journalism to the tenth power, Delta... I'm telling you, buddy. As far as the palestinian people are concerned, the western media puts the Pravda to shame.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Epsilon Delta
You've been to Palestine??

Never visited the OT themselves, Delta (Occupied Territories). But I already met lots and lots of Palestinians.

 

[Charles_Main]

Never visited the OT themselves, Delta (Occupied Territories). But I already met lots and lots of Palestinians.

I have lived by plenty of them, In a place called Detroit but still

largest population of Palestinians out side the middle east ya know!

 

[Charles_Main]

Fair enough, Delta.

I don't blame us, westeners, for our ignorance on the palestinian people. I blame the wall of silence built by the western media to hide them.

Just stop for a moment and ask yourself:

How many headlines, documentaries and special reports have you seen in the western media about the daily life in palestinian refugee camps, interviews showing their opinions on Israel, dreams and aspirations?

I like to call palestinians the "invisible refugees" as opposed to the Kosovars

Stories about the Palestinians and their plight are but a mouse click away, do not despair.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Well, I dunno... these are the ones I saw. I'm not sure if they qualified as the western media you're talking about.

5) As for evidence that most palestinians want their own state:

Middle East Transparent ? Poll: Majority of Palestinians now support two-state solution

Readings of Interest

And perhaps most importantly, from the Palestinian Centre for Policy and Survey Research:

http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2005/p17ejoint.html

I wouldn't really expect them to compromise on the right of return, but couldn't they allow 'em back after they become independent? Errrrr, just a thought. I can't say I'm ENTIRELY knowledgable on the negotiations for 'right of return', besides that, you know, Israel is totally opposed to it. But I mean... if Israel markets itself as a home to every Jew on the planet how could they possibly believe that Palestinian refugees abroad couldn't return to an independent Palestine? Or what would stop them, anyway, besides... another illegal invasion?

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