Why I dont post here

[José]

Originally posted by editec
But THEY, the people of Isreal and the people of Palestine have GOT to be the people to make their peace.

The "international community" is the root source of their problem to begin with. Let's all try to remember, that, shall we?

NOBODY on either sides trust the international community to keep the peace or to protect their interests.

Why should they?

They're not damned fools.

This is the attitude the international community has been adopting since 1948. Let’s watch the sad spectacle of a first world country keeping the natives of the land herded into ethnic enclaves and killing those who try to fight back.

What was the result of this approach? Hundreds of thousand of jews and arabs dead, two american skyscrappers knocked down with thousands of americans inside them and the deepest international crisis since the Cuban missile crisis.

If you have a purulent infection do you wait sixty years for it to heal itself or do you go to a hospital before it spreads to the rest of your body?

Thomas Friedman, who have no lost love for the Palestinian people, said in his column:

“A new generation of arabs and muslims growing up seeing the images of palestinian children killed by israeli missiles represent an enormous danger to America.”

1) A new generation of arabs/muslims full of anger towards the West attacks America.

2) America reacts by invading yet another arab/muslim country.

3) Arab/Muslim countries do what any other SANE government would: they start building a nuclear deterrence against the US (in fact, Iran, Syria and Egypt are already developing nuclear programs).

4) Nuclear materials and knowledge spread throughout the Middle East and eventually fall into the hands of we know damn well who.

This is a recipe for total disaster. Do nothing and let this conflict perpetuate itself in the future is beyond insane. It could be apropriately called “THE OSTRICH STRATEGY”.

As I said, the main obstacle to the end of this conflict is the lack of political will on the part of the world to intervene and create a state that can guarantee the rights of the palestinian people and the safety of the jewish population.

But this lack of political will does not change the fact that this ommision is CRIMINAL and will be partly responsible for the nuclearization of the ME and an eventual nuclear attack on América (of course, the entire ME needs reforms not only Israel).

No political scientist with a bare modicum of sanity can find a place in the world where international intervention is more desperately needed than in Palestine.

 

[Ravi]

Jose, do you believe the twin towers were attacked by Arabs for retaliation on behalf of the Palestinians?

If so, do you believe if we force Israel to give equal access to Palestinians that we will no longer be targeted by extremist Muslims?

 

[José]

Originally posted by editec
Yeah, then the lesson needs to include how PROPAGANDA AND INTIMIDATION convinced decent people to go along (even if as non participants) in this crime against humanity.

The solution to governments going rogue to not to titillate us with what they did, but how they got away with it.

the Jews were systematically stripped of one right after the other.

The frogs in a pot of warming water system until the very end.

That NEEDS to be explained to people in a way that makes them STOP thinking

That can never happen to me. Why didn't the jews fight back? That can never happen here.

BULLSHIT, it DID happen here to Blacks and Indians, and we ALL know it.

It’s almost unvelievable you were the author of the message I quoted above, editec.

You wrote a message urging people to stay alert and denounce any signs of ethnic supremacism and then you make up excuses when confronted with a state racist to the core that herded the native people of Palestine into ethnic enclaves just like the nazis did!!!

You criticise the passivity and the silence of the german society towards the discrimination of european jews and then you display the same passive acceptance and even rationalisation of the mistreatment of the palestinian people that would put a german to shame!! Germans lived under a dictatorship but you don’t even have this excuse.

You say propaganda convinced people to look the other way to the abuses against blacks, indians and jews and then you swallow the zionist propaganda hook, line and sinker!!

If you want to understand what led to the social acceptance of racist states in America, South Africa and Germany you should look yourself in the mirror. You’re a perfect example of all the things you described in your message. You should be the first one to reread your post and follow your own advice.

Maybe your post needs to be explained to you “in a way that makes you stop thinking this can never happen to you”, editec.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Ravi
Jose, do you believe the twin towers were attacked by Arabs for retaliation on behalf of the Palestinians?

Well, the article I posted on Mohammed Atta speaks for itself, doesn’t it?

Palestine is often called Al Qaeda’s recruitment office for a good reason.

Originally posted by Ravi
If so, do you believe if we force Israel to give equal access to Palestinians that we will no longer be targeted by extremist Muslims?

Absolutely not, Ravi.

Let’s call the peaceful dismantlement of Israel “the West’s part”.

But if Iran, Saudi Arabia etc... do not reform their religious and political structures as well as their their educational system that work as an automated machine churning out fundamentalists who hate the West not for what the West does (in Palestine) but for what the West is, then the changes in Palestine will have a negligible effect on terrorism.

All these political reforms should occur at the same time to have a significant impact.

Anyway, the total elimination of terrorism is as utopian as a 0% crime rate. The democratization of Palestine coupled with structural changes in the iranian, saudi societies, among others, would greatly reduce this threat but the truth is that you can always find a couple of shitheads willing to hate the US for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Shogun]

What ever Shog, White Americans never faced the possiblity of all of the sudden becoming a small minority in the Nations. If a single state solution is ever brought about, that is exactly what the Jews in Isreal would face. Your comparisons to the US have no meaning because it is an entirely different situation. The fact that you will not even admit that, is why so many people think you simply do not care what would happen to the Jews in Israel.

no, it's not just "whatever" after I've handed your ass to you. You can't generalize all whites just you can't generalize ALL jews. Trying to do so just illustrates which of us is the raging fucking racist.

And that lil 10% of the knesset proves that your paranoid ethnic cleansing criteria of dead jewish babies in the teeth of every pali is exactly what it sounds like: total bullshit.

Of COURSE you don't want to compare israel to anything else. It;s the exact DOUBLE STANDARD that i've talked about since day one. It's that BLANK CHECK you want for israel that I've mentioned time and again. Indeed, it's not your dual citizensip that makes you a fucking racist zionist; it's your perspective on rationalizing racist for the sake of YOUR team that gives yu that crown.

And, I wont admit it because I"VE got history on my side, sucker.. IM not the one trying to pretend that jews are superhuman than everyone else through the entire fucking recorded history of mankind. If not accepting your racism is all it takes to make you call back on Ole Trusty then so be it. Germans had the same excuses you do. and I'm not impressed with either.


Now go ahead and insist that i want to see dead jews instead of liberty and equality for ALL people in that area. Your propaganda nonsense is transparent as fuck as is your reason for not admitting to Ravi that it's not your dogma that makes you jewish.



zionism = HATE 100% of the time.

 

[Shogun]

HERE is your "whatever" Chuck. Enjoy watching what you cause and try not to cry apples and oranges too loud. I realize being the new MASTE, er, CHOSEN race gives you superhuman consideration and all but...

Boy killed in West Bank protest

Israeli troops have shot dead a 12-year-old Palestinian boy during a protest against Israel's barrier in the occupied West Bank, medics say.

The Israeli military said it was investigating what had happened.

It happened at Nilin village, west of Ramallah, where peace activists say Israel is taking 25 hectares of land from villagers to build the barrier.

The Israeli army is replacing the main access road to the village with a tunnel under military control.

Activists say the plan will have the effect of turning Nilin into a prison. Israel says the barrier and other construction work is necessary for security reasons.

'Serious' inquiry

The boy was identified by local organisers of the anti-barrier protest as Hamad Musa, AFP reported.

He was hit in the head by a live bullet fired by Israeli soldiers and died of his wounds while being transported to hospital, Palestinian medical sources said.

One activist told AFP the army dispersed protesters near the barrier using rubber-coated bullets and tear gas, and then fired live rounds at people gathering in the village.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the army was carrying out a "serious" joint inquiry with Palestinian officials, in quotes carried by the AFP news agency.

Fifteen people were also reported injured by rubber-coated bullets during the demonstration.

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Boy killed in West Bank protest

 

[Ravi]

Well, the article I posted on Mohammed Atta speaks for itself, doesn’t it?

Palestine is often called Al Qaeda’s recruitment office for a good reason.



Absolutely not, Ravi.

Let’s call the peaceful dismantlement of Israel “the West’s part”.

But if Iran, Saudi Arabia etc... do not reform their religious and political structures as well as their their educational system that work as an automated machine churning out fundamentalists who hate the West not for what the West does (in Palestine) but for what the West is, then the changes in Palestine will have a negligible effect on terrorism.

All these political reforms should occur at the same time to have a significant impact.

Anyway, the total elimination of terrorism is as utopian as a 0% crime rate. The democratization of Palestine coupled with structural changes in the iranian, saudi societies, among others, would greatly reduce this threat but the truth is that you can always find a couple of shitheads willing to hate the US for all the wrong reasons.

I don't recall the article, but I imagine he says that was his excuse? I don't buy the ravings of someone I consider insane. IMO, they use every thing they can to justify themselves because it sells, just like the use the Koran to justify themselves.

I think blaming the WTC attacks on Arabs in general is wrong.

 

[Rhys]

Aside for Rhys (totally off topic, skip it if you don’t share my interest in celtic languages, peoples and culture)

Rhys

I must confess my fascination with your native language. Perhaps as a native speaker of Welsh you don’t know how your idiom is seen by outsiders so I would like to share my impression with you.

The first thing that strikes a foreign is the lack of any familiar reference in Celtic languages, I know there are many anglicisms that were incorporated but I’m referring to the native words of the language. Even though it is a Indo European language there seems to be no link with the two branches of Indo European languages most of us are familiar with: the Latin and the Germanic branches.

Jose - I think there is a relationship to Latin. As I understand it, the Italic from which Latin developed was a close cousin to early Celtic. I think this is more evident with Irish, which kept its inflexions. I believe 'of a cow' is 'bovis' in both languages, for instance. With our language you can see some regular changes in comparison with Latin 'h' for their 's', for instance. They said 'sol' for sun, we say 'haul' (sounds like 'hyle'). What I find very interesting is that Cymraeg labels the bits of the colour spectrum differently from English. The colour 'glas', for instance, in much wider than the English 'blue', embracing a lot of 'green'. In the past this was even more marked: I think most of the colours were different in range.

So you can’t even begin to imagine the feeling of strangeness your tongue provokes in most of us and I say this in a positive way because out of this strangeness it produces comes part of our fascination, at least in my case. Besides the place occupied by vowels and consonants are also so diferent from anything we are used to see.

Twll dîn pob Sais!

Byddan nhw ddim ond yn cysgu pan fydd angen..

Da iawn, José. Where did you learn those?

But this is only part of the story, Rhys. When we shift our attention from the language itself and realise that we are in front of the historical evolution of the mother tongue of Druids and all the other elements of celtic society our mind is simply blown away.

The original celtic peoples are not some obscure group of humans who lived in the past like so many others because Asterix brought the ancient Celts, their society and life style back to life. So when we see your mother tongue we are immediately transported to the ancient environment were the original celtic language was spoken.

So it’s a fascinating experience to see any text written in your language, Rhys, and I can’t even fathom how fascinating would be to hear a native speaker.

Try BBC Arlein - http://news.bbc.co.uk.welsh.hi.newsid
BBC Catchphrase - a learning programme
or S4C - http.www.s4c.co.uk/c-watch

I am bad at copying , but you should be able to Google these.

I sincerely hope the Welsh people succeds in reviving the Welsh language completely because even though it is associated with welsh nationalism, it belongs in reality to the entire world. It is part of the cultural heritage of our species and it would be a crime to allow not only the Welsh but all the other celtic languages still alive to die out.

Thanks. As far as our language goes, things are looking up. The long civil-disobedience struggle of the Language Society, Cymdeithas yr Iaith, has meant that the language has pretty much equal status, now, a status guaranteed by our Assembly, which we now call the Senedd, Parliament; Welsh-language secondary schools are hugely successful in what were mainly English-speaking areas; we have our own television service, Sianel Pedwar Cymru, and the number speaking the language, which was down to 18%, is nearer 30% amongst the younger people. Our main problem, as with all local communities, is that in the bro Gymraeg, the Welsh-speaking areas, outsiders buy up the houses (we have the misfortune - at least in this sense - to live in a very beautiful country) but for the moment the mortgage crisis is dealing with that. It was fabulous, a few weeks back, to go round what used to be called 'little England' in south Pembrokeshire and see our flag flying everywhere, and bi-lingual notices in the supermarkets. Another interesting thing is that in parts of England you also see bi-lingual notices their authorities having bought roadsigns cheap: they were replaced because the English came first! It is all still quite touchy, but relaxing more and more.

About the other Celtic countries I can't be as hopeful, but that is another story and I've not much time - I'm off to meet a Patagonian relative who is coming over to Cardiff for the National Eisteddfod. But I am very pleased that you take an interest in this subject, José. Pob llwyddiant. Rhys

 

[Shogun]

I don't recall the article, but I imagine he says that was his excuse? I don't buy the ravings of someone I consider insane. IMO, they use every thing they can to justify themselves because it sells, just like the use the Koran to justify themselves.

I think blaming the WTC attacks on Arabs in general is wrong.

wow.


every word of that post is ironic as fuck. So, let's go ahead and ignore the blatant clusterfuck that is the purposeful misinterpretation of the iranian presidents quote because Ravi thinks he's crazy and just want to kill jews.


Text of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Speech

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/w...66800&en=5035dfc8b7afc70d&ei=5070&oref=slogin

 

[Ravi]

It's a shame you don't have any idea what you're saying. I hope Jose doesn't approve of you speaking for him, what an embarrassment.

 

[Anguille]

Just butting in to say that I think Why I Don't Post Here has got to be one of the best thread titles ever. Especially for a thread with soooooo many posts.

 

[manifold]

Terrorist sympathizer say what?

 

[Anguille]

pocket pool shark play what?

 

[manifold]

Damn! caught in the act again!

 

[Ravi]

So terrorist sympathizers turn you on?

 

[manifold]

Methinks someone should mind her own business.

 

[Ravi]

lol, why start now?

 

[Paulie]

I'm not even sure why he'd think a convert to Judaism would be excluded from living in Israel. That'd kind of nullify the entire purpose of conversion. Like the pope telling YOU if you converted to Catholicism that you'd be eligible for all the bennies but you couldn't visit the Vatican.

Digging deep here for the pure fun of it..

Isn't there a bit of a difference between immigrating into a country and then permanently living there, and VISITING a place for the purpose of a worship?

How many Christian converts settle in the Vatican? How many even entertain such an idea, let alone think they're ENTITLED to?

 

[Ravi]

Digging deep here for the pure fun of it..

Isn't there a bit of a difference between immigrating into a country and then permanently living there, and VISITING a place for the purpose of a worship?

How many Christian converts settle in the Vatican? How many even entertain such an idea, let alone think they're ENTITLED to?

Hey, all you have to do is become a priest, be celibate (at least pretend) and have contacts.

 

[manifold]

Hey, all you have to do is become a priest, be celibate (at least pretend) and have contacts.

contacts with alter boys you mean?