Debate Now Why Is Being "Politically Correct" A Bad Thing To Some People?

[Skull Pilot]

The PC tactic of calling someone racist, intolerant or bigoted when that person says something to offend the tender sensibilities of the PC crowd is avoidance of the discussion

Then don't say something racist, intolerant or bigoted. How much easier can it get?

And you know as well as I do that one does not have to necessarily say something bigoted to be shouted down as a bigot by the PC crowd one merely has to say something the PC crowd disagrees with because they actually believe tolerance equals acceptance

How about an example?

Person 1: I don't believe in gay marriage
PC Person: Then you're a homophobe

Person 1 said nothing disparaging about gay people at all

Sounds PC person needs to be educated. At this point person 1 should either ask why they were a homophobe or cut to the chase and explain their reasons for not believing in gay marriage.

That could have been done without PC person calling Person 1 a name

It's the name calling that is meant to derail the argument

 

[Ravi]

How about an example?

Person 1: I don't believe in gay marriage
PC Person: Then you're a homophobe

Person 1 said nothing disparaging about gay people at all

Chances are stating that you "don't believe in gay marriage" does make you a homophobe since it is none of your business whatsoever.

No it does not mean anything of the sort

The fact is you calling anyone who says that a homophobe is nothing but a PC tactic to avoid the argument

What argument? Someone made a statement in your example, they didn't present an argument.

If someone says that and you call him a homophobe and walk out in a huff then you missed the opportunity to continue the discussion IOW you avoided it

I wouldn't walk out in a huff. I'd just ask them to prove that they aren't a homophobe.

 

[Asclepias]

I've seen many times on this board the term "politically correct" being used in derogatory manner. It baffles me to be honest. What is it that would make being politically correct something to frown upon as opposed to a tool to further communication?

Rules:

1. No off topic comments. Please address the question.
2. Be able to prove your position using common sense. No links

The problem is who gets to decide what is politically correct. In many cases Political correctness dumbs people down. How many times have I heard from some leaders, " we need to talk about race" as a matter of fact Eric Holder called us cowards on race.
While in reality, these people are most likely the same ones promoting PC. They want to talk about race but they want to control the conversation, - tell us what is ok to say and what is not - and oh yeah - Who is a racist, which of course would be all white people , because they are white.

That is political correctness. Remember that book Huckle Berry Finn by Mark Twain? I read that book several times when I was a kid, and I can tell you he was ahead of his time, he cleverly Put Down racism throughout the book and showed the injustice of it in a real way. YET because of PC this book is not allowed in public schools because the N word was used. Doesn't matter to these Idiots about the context of how the word was used , JUST the fact that it was- and written by a White guy for that matter.

They don't give kids credit that they could be educated and understand things like context. PC in this case wants to push a one sided view point.

Let me stop you right there. The PC being discussed is defined earlier in the thread. Your opinions of what it is are not up for debate on this thread. Its really simple. Language that offends people is about as simple as I can get it. The person that is offended is the one that defines the offense. That should be common sense.

 

[Nosmo King]

Free Speech is FORBIDDEN under PC...simple as that.... YOU have the right to be outraged by what I say, as I do with what you say!

Free speech is not forbidden. Those who denigrate PC are angry because they no longer have the freedom to offend without consequence.

Political Correctness might well be defined as using simple human respect, decency and tolerance. Those who are off put by PC simply want to conduct themselves without that simple human respect and decency.

Should we eliminate PC? Should we eliminate civil discourse in favor of the coarsening of the culture? They seem to be the same question.

This pretense is part of the machinery of Political Correctness.

Pretense?!? Have we devolved so far as a society that basic human respect is a pretense?

Is the ability to easily offend, marginalize and demean something so noble it has to be defended?

 

[Correll]

The PC tactic of calling someone racist, intolerant or bigoted when that person says something to offend the tender sensibilities of the PC crowd is avoidance of the discussion

Then don't say something racist, intolerant or bigoted. How much easier can it get?

As the person losing the argument gets to define what is supposedly "racist, intolerant or bigoted" and then launch the hissy fit/personal attacks, it is impossibly hard.

Who told you they were losing the argument and what makes you think there should be a loser? Your mindset is actually revealing a lot about your character. Both people should win at the end of the conversation.

People rarely derail threads when they are winning.

This is not about my mindset, it is about the way Political Correctness is used.

It is part and parcel of why it is perceived as a bad thing.

Because it is a bad thing.

Who told you someone was derailing a thread?

You never addressed the point that both people should win instead of someone losing.

When thread about one issue becomes a thread about one of the posters, the thread has been derailed.

Your opinion that both people should win does not seem Common Sense to me. Many issues are subjective, but not all are.

If GW is true for example, that GW skeptics should lose all GW threads.

Or vise a versa.

 

[emilynghiem]

What qualifies you to say whether I'm correct or not maybe you are reading minds and can tell people aren't looking for reasons to be offended which would mean that instead they are extremely thin skinned and intolerant

The dictionary. If you look up the difference between and opinion and a fact you will see your opinion requires no proof.

And neither does yours

Thats correct. My opinion is not fact just like the claim that people are using PC to avoid debate.

The PC tactic of calling someone racist, intolerant or bigoted when that person says something to offend the tender sensibilities of the PC crowd is avoidance of the discussion

Then don't say something racist, intolerant or bigoted. How much easier can it get?

Hi Ravi one of the complaints
is the people issuing this standard don't follow it themselves:

Why is it okay to call Christians and Rightwing or Tea Party "wingnuts" "nutters" "whackos"
but then ask those folks not to use names or insulting stereotypes?

Shouldn't the agreement to be civil and inclusive
be MUTUAL if you are going to ask for equal enforcement of such standards?

 

[Asclepias]

Then don't say something racist, intolerant or bigoted. How much easier can it get?

And you know as well as I do that one does not have to necessarily say something bigoted to be shouted down as a bigot by the PC crowd one merely has to say something the PC crowd disagrees with because they actually believe tolerance equals acceptance

How about an example?

Person 1: I don't believe in gay marriage
PC Person: Then you're a homophobe

Person 1 said nothing disparaging about gay people at all

Sounds PC person needs to be educated. At this point person 1 should either ask why they were a homophobe or cut to the chase and explain their reasons for not believing in gay marriage.

That could have been done without PC person calling Person 1 a name

It's the name calling that is meant to derail the argument

Thats true. However not all conversations go like that. From what I have observed something like this is more the norm.

Person 1. All faggots will die in hell and america will be destroyed if they are allowed to marry.

PC person. Then you're a homophobe

 

[Correll]

How about an example?

Person 1: I don't believe in gay marriage
PC Person: Then you're a homophobe

Person 1 said nothing disparaging about gay people at all

Chances are stating that you "don't believe in gay marriage" does make you a homophobe since it is none of your business whatsoever.

No it does not mean anything of the sort

The fact is you calling anyone who says that a homophobe is nothing but a PC tactic to avoid the argument

What argument? Someone made a statement in your example, they didn't present an argument.

If someone says that and you call him a homophobe and walk out in a huff then you missed the opportunity to continue the discussion IOW you avoided it

And regardless no one who uses PC will listen to any claim from person 1 that they are not a homophobe.

 

[emilynghiem]

Free Speech is FORBIDDEN under PC...simple as that.... YOU have the right to be outraged by what I say, as I do with what you say!

Free speech is not forbidden. Those who denigrate PC are angry because they no longer have the freedom to offend without consequence.

Political Correctness might well be defined as using simple human respect, decency and tolerance. Those who are off put by PC simply want to conduct themselves without that simple human respect and decency.

Should we eliminate PC? Should we eliminate civil discourse in favor of the coarsening of the culture? They seem to be the same question.

This pretense is part of the machinery of Political Correctness.

Pretense?!? Have we devolved so far as a society that basic human respect is a pretense?

Is the ability to easily offend, marginalize and demean something so noble it has to be defended?

Nosmo King where the insult and "pretense" comes in
is where the people preaching PC aren't following rules of civility themselves.
See response previously to Ravi, where this causes problems in practice.

 

[Valerie]

LEtting your tender feelings get in the way is no way to win an argument

Nor is being racist, bigoted, or intolerant.

What this really boils down to is that RWNJs want to call people names with impunity. Sorry, that's just not going to happen no matter how emotional you get about it.

right on, as usual... and 'your tender feelings' is an obvious strawman in this nebulous 'debate'.

 

[Correll]

Free Speech is FORBIDDEN under PC...simple as that.... YOU have the right to be outraged by what I say, as I do with what you say!

Free speech is not forbidden. Those who denigrate PC are angry because they no longer have the freedom to offend without consequence.

Political Correctness might well be defined as using simple human respect, decency and tolerance. Those who are off put by PC simply want to conduct themselves without that simple human respect and decency.

Should we eliminate PC? Should we eliminate civil discourse in favor of the coarsening of the culture? They seem to be the same question.

This pretense is part of the machinery of Political Correctness.

Pretense?!? Have we devolved so far as a society that basic human respect is a pretense?

Is the ability to easily offend, marginalize and demean something so noble it has to be defended?

PC is not about basic human respect.

It is about the ability to shout down and marginalize people or ideas you don't like.

Which is why I am so strongly against it.

I believe in the Contest of Ideas.

 

[Ravi]

The dictionary. If you look up the difference between and opinion and a fact you will see your opinion requires no proof.

And neither does yours

Thats correct. My opinion is not fact just like the claim that people are using PC to avoid debate.

The PC tactic of calling someone racist, intolerant or bigoted when that person says something to offend the tender sensibilities of the PC crowd is avoidance of the discussion

Then don't say something racist, intolerant or bigoted. How much easier can it get?

Hi Ravi one of the complaints
is the people issuing this standard don't follow it themselves:

Why is it okay to call Christians and Rightwing or Tea Party "wingnuts" "nutters" "whackos"
but then ask those folks not to use names or insulting stereotypes?

Shouldn't the agreement to be civil and inclusive
be MUTUAL if you are going to ask for equal enforcement of such standards?

I think you can actually choose to not be a wingnut, whacko, or nutter. But if you want those words included as un-PC that's fine with me.

 

[Valerie]

"debate now" ??


neb·u·lous
ˈnebyələs/
adjective
adjective: nebulous

1. in the form of a cloud or haze; hazy.
   "a giant nebulous glow"
   synonyms: indistinct, indefinite, unclear, vague, hazy, cloudy, fuzzy, misty, blurred, blurry, foggy;More
   faint, shadowy, obscure, formless, amorphous
   "the figure was nebulous"
   antonyms: clear
   • (of a concept or idea) unclear, vague, or ill-defined.
     "nebulous concepts like quality of life"
     synonyms: vague, ill-defined, unclear, hazy, uncertain, indefinite, indeterminate, imprecise, unformed, muddled, confused, ambiguous
     "nebulous ideas"
     antonyms: well defined
   • another term for nebular

 

[emilynghiem]

And you know as well as I do that one does not have to necessarily say something bigoted to be shouted down as a bigot by the PC crowd one merely has to say something the PC crowd disagrees with because they actually believe tolerance equals acceptance

How about an example?

Person 1: I don't believe in gay marriage
PC Person: Then you're a homophobe

Person 1 said nothing disparaging about gay people at all

Sounds PC person needs to be educated. At this point person 1 should either ask why they were a homophobe or cut to the chase and explain their reasons for not believing in gay marriage.

That could have been done without PC person calling Person 1 a name

It's the name calling that is meant to derail the argument

Thats true. However not all conversations go like that. From what I have observed something like this is more the norm.

Person 1. All faggots will die in hell and america will be destroyed if they are allowed to marry.

PC person. Then you're a homophobe

^ why isn't calling someone a homophobe or islamophobe
equally policed as politically incorrect? ^

what if someone is a raging Constitutionalist who doesn't like the gay agenda
maybe they are a liberal-phobic but not necessarily anti-gay per se

also if someone is not pro-gay that doesn't make them anti-gay or homophobic.
I believe in not pushing either progay or antigay agenda through govt,
but to write the laws neutrally where they don't trigger negative or "phobic" reactions from anyone.

 

[Fishlore]

Politically correct comes from Mao's China and has become a term of abuse by non-college, rural, white guys (the GOP "base") because they resent the changes in social values and practices in an evolving America that has left them behind. Disparaging mockery of blacks, Jews, gays, women etc. was the traditional means whereby this group established its social status. "At least I'm white!" has been the war cry of white trash for well over a century.

 

[Yarddog]

I've seen many times on this board the term "politically correct" being used in derogatory manner. It baffles me to be honest. What is it that would make being politically correct something to frown upon as opposed to a tool to further communication?

Rules:

1. No off topic comments. Please address the question.
2. Be able to prove your position using common sense. No links

The problem is who gets to decide what is politically correct. In many cases Political correctness dumbs people down. How many times have I heard from some leaders, " we need to talk about race" as a matter of fact Eric Holder called us cowards on race.
While in reality, these people are most likely the same ones promoting PC. They want to talk about race but they want to control the conversation, - tell us what is ok to say and what is not - and oh yeah - Who is a racist, which of course would be all white people , because they are white.

That is political correctness. Remember that book Huckle Berry Finn by Mark Twain? I read that book several times when I was a kid, and I can tell you he was ahead of his time, he cleverly Put Down racism throughout the book and showed the injustice of it in a real way. YET because of PC this book is not allowed in public schools because the N word was used. Doesn't matter to these Idiots about the context of how the word was used , JUST the fact that it was- and written by a White guy for that matter.

They don't give kids credit that they could be educated and understand things like context. PC in this case wants to push a one sided view point.

Let me stop you right there. The PC being discussed is defined earlier in the thread. Your opinions of what it is are not up for debate on this thread. Its really simple. Language that offends people is about as simple as I can get it. The person that is offended is the one that defines the offense. That should be common sense.

But PC is applied in many ways in society . But I guess thats not what your talking about then ok, your only talking about a very small part of political correctness, not how it affects society.

 

[Asclepias]

LEtting your tender feelings get in the way is no way to win an argument

Nor is being racist, bigoted, or intolerant.

What this really boils down to is that RWNJs want to call people names with impunity. Sorry, that's just not going to happen no matter how emotional you get about it.

right on, as usual... and 'your tender feelings' is an obvious strawman in this nebulous 'debate'.

Its the old sticks and stones argument which has been proven false. Not only that, it has been proven that people who are offended are not going to take in your message, rejecting it outright because you have insulted them which automatically sets up a battlefield.

 

[Asclepias]

I've seen many times on this board the term "politically correct" being used in derogatory manner. It baffles me to be honest. What is it that would make being politically correct something to frown upon as opposed to a tool to further communication?

Rules:

1. No off topic comments. Please address the question.
2. Be able to prove your position using common sense. No links

The problem is who gets to decide what is politically correct. In many cases Political correctness dumbs people down. How many times have I heard from some leaders, " we need to talk about race" as a matter of fact Eric Holder called us cowards on race.
While in reality, these people are most likely the same ones promoting PC. They want to talk about race but they want to control the conversation, - tell us what is ok to say and what is not - and oh yeah - Who is a racist, which of course would be all white people , because they are white.

That is political correctness. Remember that book Huckle Berry Finn by Mark Twain? I read that book several times when I was a kid, and I can tell you he was ahead of his time, he cleverly Put Down racism throughout the book and showed the injustice of it in a real way. YET because of PC this book is not allowed in public schools because the N word was used. Doesn't matter to these Idiots about the context of how the word was used , JUST the fact that it was- and written by a White guy for that matter.

They don't give kids credit that they could be educated and understand things like context. PC in this case wants to push a one sided view point.

Let me stop you right there. The PC being discussed is defined earlier in the thread. Your opinions of what it is are not up for debate on this thread. Its really simple. Language that offends people is about as simple as I can get it. The person that is offended is the one that defines the offense. That should be common sense.

But PC is applied in many ways in society . But I guess thats not what your talking about then ok, your only talking about a very small part of political correctness, not how it affects society.

Exactly. I am talking about its effect on having a conversation.

 

[Mac1958]

I believe in the Contest of Ideas.

And they do not, because they are cowards.
.

 

[Asclepias]

How about an example?

Person 1: I don't believe in gay marriage
PC Person: Then you're a homophobe

Person 1 said nothing disparaging about gay people at all

Sounds PC person needs to be educated. At this point person 1 should either ask why they were a homophobe or cut to the chase and explain their reasons for not believing in gay marriage.

That could have been done without PC person calling Person 1 a name

It's the name calling that is meant to derail the argument

Thats true. However not all conversations go like that. From what I have observed something like this is more the norm.

Person 1. All faggots will die in hell and america will be destroyed if they are allowed to marry.

PC person. Then you're a homophobe

^ why isn't calling someone a homophobe or islamophobe
equally policed as politically incorrect? ^

what if someone is a raging Constitutionalist who doesn't like the gay agenda
maybe they are a liberal-phobic but not necessarily anti-gay per se

also if someone is not pro-gay that doesn't make them anti-gay or homophobic.
I believe in not pushing either progay or antigay agenda through govt,
but to write the laws neutrally where they don't trigger negative or "phobic" reactions from anyone.

It is politically incorrect language and usually shuts down any conversation.
However if you note, person #1 started the conversation which would make them the one that needed to have an audience and offered the first non PC comments. There is never a guarantee that the person that responds cares to have a conversation at all after the first person started off the conversation in a failed state.