Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Flopper]

View attachment 237210

Crossing in the San Diego sector went form 100,000 to 5,000 after a barrier was erected. They work, period. Visa overstays is a simple fix if politicians had the will.
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According to the head of immigration, a border barrier simple persuades people to use an easier path across the 2000 mile border which is not hard find.

The 5 billion dollar Trump wall will not be a 2000 or 1000 mile wall but a 212 mile slatted fence, hundreds of miles of service roads, electronic monitors, aerial surveillance, and additional facilities to hold migrants crossing the border.
Trump will always claim it is his big beautiful wall which has stopped illegal immigration.

The fact is illegal immigration will continue as before with most illegal crossings occurring at ports of entry and the biggest problem untouched, overstays of visas.

At least with Visa's the government has somewhat vetted who is coming in. Lord only knows what these illegals are like that lowlife that killed the cop in CA.

The problem of using a visa to enter the US to apply is the application process can take a number of months and during that time you are not allowed to work. Thousands of dollars for a lawyer, cost of living in the US for months plus travel means most of the people qualified for asylum will not be able to afford it. That's why I say they should be able to apply at a US embassy in their country and we wouldn't have these caravans to deal with.

 

[OKTexas]

View attachment 237210

Crossing in the San Diego sector went form 100,000 to 5,000 after a barrier was erected. They work, period. Visa overstays is a simple fix if politicians had the will.
.

According to the head of immigration, a border barrier simple persuades people to use an easier path across the 2000 mile border which is not hard find.

The 5 billion dollar Trump wall will not be a 2000 or 1000 mile wall but a 212 mile slatted fence, hundreds of miles of service roads, electronic monitors, aerial surveillance, and additional facilities to hold migrants crossing the border.
Trump will always claim it is his big beautiful wall which has stopped illegal immigration.

The fact is illegal immigration will continue as before with most illegal crossings occurring at ports of entry and the biggest problem untouched, overstays of visas.

So you're in essence saying a wall will work. It will force people to seek alternative places and methods to cross. Places and methods the border patrol will be prepared to interdict. The barriers assist the border patrol and are a force multiplier.

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

.

 

[H B Lowrie]

these kids would trade everything in the world just to see their parents again. they've never had someone spoil them. they need to be cared for, my friends.

We just ain't that kinda people.

among latinos, family is all-important. motherhood and fatherhood is valued above all else. i was struck by the choice people make when they leave their children. how do they make such an impossible decision. do they go to the US and make money and leave their children or do they stay and live in miserable poverty?

They could always outsourse the raising of their children and care of their elders to chase a career like we do I suppose.

 

[dblack]

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

Exactly. THIS is what bothers me about the "wall" movement. Their goals will require a police state to achieve, not just a wall.

 

[bripat9643]

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

Exactly. THIS is what bothers me about the "wall" movement. Their goals will require a police state to achieve, not just a wall.

How does deporting illegal aliens make this country a police state?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

View attachment 237210

Crossing in the San Diego sector went form 100,000 to 5,000 after a barrier was erected. They work, period. Visa overstays is a simple fix if politicians had the will.
.

According to the head of immigration, a border barrier simple persuades people to use an easier path across the 2000 mile border which is not hard find.

The 5 billion dollar Trump wall will not be a 2000 or 1000 mile wall but a 212 mile slatted fence, hundreds of miles of service roads, electronic monitors, aerial surveillance, and additional facilities to hold migrants crossing the border.
Trump will always claim it is his big beautiful wall which has stopped illegal immigration.

The fact is illegal immigration will continue as before with most illegal crossings occurring at ports of entry and the biggest problem untouched, overstays of visas.

At least with Visa's the government has somewhat vetted who is coming in. Lord only knows what these illegals are like that lowlife that killed the cop in CA.

The problem of using a visa to enter the US to apply is the application process can take a number of months and during that time you are not allowed to work. Thousands of dollars for a lawyer, cost of living in the US for months plus travel means most of the people qualified for asylum will not be able to afford it. That's why I say they should be able to apply at a US embassy in their country and we wouldn't have these caravans to deal with.

Well I have some bad news for you, and that is they know they don't qualify for asylum. They are hoping the Democrats make an issue out of them waiting to get in and pressure Trump to open the gates.

However I'm with you on applying outside of our country. At least that way we can without a doubt say the real reason they are coming here. When we do it now, the Democrats fight us tooth and nail claiming coming here is the only way to apply. However asylum was designed to be the last resort and an emergency one at that. If you are applying at an embassy somewhere, it's obvious it's not that dire of a situation.

At the risk of sounding repetitive, the solution is to make being here illegal a first degree felony which carries a minimum 5 years in prison. It would take care of the Visa overstays, people thinking of sneaking in, building a wall, and the people here already that shouldn't be here.

 

[OKTexas]

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

Exactly. THIS is what bothers me about the "wall" movement. Their goals will require a police state to achieve, not just a wall.

So you think we should do away with law enforcement? Do you think it would be unreasonable to require people coming in on visas to leave as agreed?

If I were king, everyone granted a visa would be required to purchase a return bond. If computerized records show they haven't left, a warrant for their arrest should be issued and private bounty hunters would be paid form the bonds to locate and apprehend them. Any assets they have would be seized under RICO and they would be deported with the shirts on their backs. The assets would be used to replenish the bond fund.

.

 

[dblack]

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

Exactly. THIS is what bothers me about the "wall" movement. Their goals will require a police state to achieve, not just a wall.

How does deporting illegal aliens make this country a police state?

Because it requires ubiquitous government monitoring. If we're really going to ensure that they're aren't any "illegals" among us, we'll have to give up many of our individual rights. We'll have to submit to routine searches and carry proof of our citizenship with us at all times. If you don't, you risk getting caught up in "expedited deportation procedures".

 

[dblack]

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

Exactly. THIS is what bothers me about the "wall" movement. Their goals will require a police state to achieve, not just a wall.

So you think we should do away with law enforcement? Do you think it would be unreasonable to require people coming in on visas to leave as agreed?

I think the role of government should be protecting individual rights, not violating them in the name of state security.

 

[danielpalos]

it won't solve the problem and only increases costs.

 

[Flopper]

No, because if it was only to escape danger, they had that escape when they crossed the Mexican border. They were offered asylum, but refused because they wanted to trade that in for US asylum.

They were not escaping anything. They lived in a shit hole and wanted to trade up. That doesn't meet the requirement for US asylum.

How the fuck would you know? Oh, I forgot, you live in a city many people are trying to escape from.

How do I know, it's called "reading." You see, when news comes out, all you have to do to stay informed is read it. If you want to know protocol, all you have to do is look it up on the internet.

Yes, they were not only offered asylum by Mexico, but work as well. They refused it. It was America or bust. And while refusing asylum in another country is not automatic disqualification for American asylum, it's extremely unlikely you'd be granted it by a US court given the circumstance. They know this because American Hispanic lawyers jump the border to teach these invaders how to lie in order to get into this country one way or another.

But this is the brilliance of Trump. Under Hussein, these people would be allowed into our country until the court date, and then they'd never show up. Under Trump, you stay in Mexico until your court date, and if you decide to attend, you will be escorted to and from the court by our authorities. Unless granted asylum, back over the border you go.

Mexico does not offer asylum to all migrants. Like the US, you apply for asylum in Mexico. An asylum officer determines the level of fear you have of returning home and whether you have legally qualified reasons for asking for asylum which are very similar to the US law. Mexico does not do an in depth background check like the US. Most, but not all applicants are accepted. Unlike the US, Mexico does not offer very much to asylum seekers. You get documentation and depending on number applying, you get a few weeks of help with room and board. US law does not prohibit people with asylum in Mexico from applying for US asylum.

Safety and protection of human rights in Mexico is only slightly better than Central America, but that is certainly of no concern to the Trump. administration. The goal is to keep them out.

 

[bripat9643]

these kids would trade everything in the world just to see their parents again. they've never had someone spoil them. they need to be cared for, my friends.

We just ain't that kinda people.

among latinos, family is all-important. motherhood and fatherhood is valued above all else. i was struck by the choice people make when they leave their children. how do they make such an impossible decision. do they go to the US and make money and leave their children or do they stay and live in miserable poverty?

They could always outsourse the raising of their children and care of their elders to chase a career like we do I suppose.

Who's stopping them? Let them do it in Mexico.

 

[bripat9643]

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

Exactly. THIS is what bothers me about the "wall" movement. Their goals will require a police state to achieve, not just a wall.

So you think we should do away with law enforcement? Do you think it would be unreasonable to require people coming in on visas to leave as agreed?

If I were king, everyone granted a visa would be required to purchase a return bond. If computerized records show they haven't left, a warrant for their arrest should be issued and private bounty hunters would be paid form the bonds to locate and apprehend them. Any assets they have would be seized under RICO and they would be deported with the shirts on their backs. The assets would be used to replenish the bond fund.

.

According to morons like dblack, enforcing our immigration laws is the police state.

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

Exactly. THIS is what bothers me about the "wall" movement. Their goals will require a police state to achieve, not just a wall.

How does deporting illegal aliens make this country a police state?

Because it requires ubiquitous government monitoring. If we're really going to ensure that they're aren't any "illegals" among us, we'll have to give up many of our individual rights. We'll have to submit to routine searches and carry proof of our citizenship with us at all times. If you don't, you risk getting caught up in "expedited deportation procedures".

It certainly doesn't. It requires far less "monitoring" than enforcing the IRS code. It's a simple matter to determine whether someone has overstayed their visa. Other countries manage to do it, so why can't we? No one needs to submit to routine searches, and I carry proof that I'm a U.S. citizen at all times. It's called a driver's license. Of course, in some states they give out drivers licenses to illegal aliens in a deliberate attempt to subvert our immigration laws.

I think the only thing needed is to keep Dims out of the government.

 

[bripat9643]

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

Exactly. THIS is what bothers me about the "wall" movement. Their goals will require a police state to achieve, not just a wall.

So you think we should do away with law enforcement? Do you think it would be unreasonable to require people coming in on visas to leave as agreed?

I think the role of government should be protecting individual rights, not violating them in the name of state security.

Deporting illegal aliens doesn't violate anyone's individual rights.

 

[OKTexas]

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

Exactly. THIS is what bothers me about the "wall" movement. Their goals will require a police state to achieve, not just a wall.

So you think we should do away with law enforcement? Do you think it would be unreasonable to require people coming in on visas to leave as agreed?

I think the role of government should be protecting individual rights, not violating them in the name of state security.

There are 1.4 billion people all over this world that say they want to come here. That's more than 4 times our current population and more than 4 times the 100+ billion a year we're spending on illegals now. Are you prepared to give up your country to the third world, I'm not. And it's "national security" not "state security". We're supposed to be a nation of laws, with no enforcement, we are no nation at all.

.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, because if it was only to escape danger, they had that escape when they crossed the Mexican border. They were offered asylum, but refused because they wanted to trade that in for US asylum.

They were not escaping anything. They lived in a shit hole and wanted to trade up. That doesn't meet the requirement for US asylum.

How the fuck would you know? Oh, I forgot, you live in a city many people are trying to escape from.

How do I know, it's called "reading." You see, when news comes out, all you have to do to stay informed is read it. If you want to know protocol, all you have to do is look it up on the internet.

Yes, they were not only offered asylum by Mexico, but work as well. They refused it. It was America or bust. And while refusing asylum in another country is not automatic disqualification for American asylum, it's extremely unlikely you'd be granted it by a US court given the circumstance. They know this because American Hispanic lawyers jump the border to teach these invaders how to lie in order to get into this country one way or another.

But this is the brilliance of Trump. Under Hussein, these people would be allowed into our country until the court date, and then they'd never show up. Under Trump, you stay in Mexico until your court date, and if you decide to attend, you will be escorted to and from the court by our authorities. Unless granted asylum, back over the border you go.

Mexico does not offer asylum to all migrants. Like the US, you apply for asylum in Mexico. An asylum officer determines the level of fear you have of returning home and whether you have legally qualified reasons for asking for asylum which are very similar to the US law. Mexico does not do an in depth background check like the US. Most, but not all applicants are accepted. Unlike the US, Mexico does not offer very much to asylum seekers. You get documentation and depending on number applying, you get a few weeks of help with room and board. US law does not prohibit people with asylum in Mexico from applying for US asylum.

Safety and protection of human rights in Mexico is only slightly better than Central America, but that is certainly of no concern to the Trump. administration. The goal is to keep them out.

Yes, the goal is to keep them out. Whats wrong with that? If it were up to me, our asylum program would end. Too many people using our laws against us.

According to our news agencies, yes, Mexico did offer the people in the Caravan asylum. Nobody accepted it. And while there is no law stating that if they refuse asylum in another country, they are not applicable here, no court would grant asylum given that circumstance.

Asylum is to escape a dire situation, it's not a program of who offers a better opportunity. Once you are out of the country that you claim is persecuting you or your family, you are safe from that government.

Do you really want to have some fun? Tell Mexico and others that we are putting the people of S/C America in front of the line, and since we only take in a million people a year, everybody else will have to wait. Watch how fast Mexico stops those people from moving north through their country.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But it will also be necessary to change our laws, to criminalize visa overstays and provide expedited deportation procedures of all illegals.

Exactly. THIS is what bothers me about the "wall" movement. Their goals will require a police state to achieve, not just a wall.

How does deporting illegal aliens make this country a police state?

Because it requires ubiquitous government monitoring. If we're really going to ensure that they're aren't any "illegals" among us, we'll have to give up many of our individual rights. We'll have to submit to routine searches and carry proof of our citizenship with us at all times. If you don't, you risk getting caught up in "expedited deportation procedures".

I think our agencies are smart enough to figure out who is a citizen here and who may not be without papers for everybody.

 

[Lesh]

Why is building the wall wrong?

Mostly because it's an expensive boondoggle that would not achieve its supposed intended results and would steal land from thousands of American ranchers and farmers

It's a very expensive SYMBOL and little else

 

[bripat9643]

Why is building the wall wrong?

Mostly because it's an expensive boondoggle that would not achieve its supposed intended results and would steal land from thousands of American ranchers and farmers

It's a very expensive SYMBOL and little else

We all know that you're spewing Dim talking points, not facts

 

[Lesh]

We all know that you're spewing Dim talking points, not facts

What "we all know" is that as usual you are trolling...or can you actually dispute anything I've said with anything other than "nuuuuhhhhuhhhh"