Why is Christianity more pronounced in the U.S. than the rest of Western society?

[occupied]

My reason is somewhat circular, in that I believe America is more Christian because there are a vast number of us that still believe blessings flow from God, not government.

Nothing flows from God that does not have a human as a middle-man. People just have to be good to each other for this world to be a good place to live, why give credit to a God that stubbornly hides from the rational?

 

[norwegen]

I have a personal understanding of this phenomena. America was founded during the Enlightenment when Europe was weening itself off of Christianity. Maybe moving across the ocean to settle in the New World interrupted that process.

Far from it. The migration of evangelical Christians to the New World helped to create not only a Christian society but also an enlightened one. Seventeenth and eighteenth-century America was that critical juncture in time and place in which Enlightenment rationlaism and covenant theology - along with classical antiquity and the common-law traditions of the English jurists - all mutually reinforced the precepts that the Americans had about society and human behavior. Very few Ameircan pastors denied the Enlightenment for the sake of their faith.

To be sure, that the Americans' republican principles - their natural law principles - being derived from these four different intellectual traditions produced some tensions in their polemics, but from all these traditions they built a society rooted in experience and reason.

Many of the founders though were deists, not Christians. Many of them thought Christianity, like all religions, was a scourge on humanity and they said so.

They were not Deists. Why do liberals not know their own history?

You no doubt think Jefferson was a Democrat, too.

It gets utterly tiring to have to educate the ignorant over and over. Stop watching televangelists, they lie with every breath they take.

"I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

“My Parents had early given me religious Impressions, and brought me through my Childhood piously in the Dissenting Way. But I was scarce 15 when, after doubting by turns of several Points as I found them disputed in the different Books I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself. Some Books against Deism fell into my Hands; they were said to be the Substance of Sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an Effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them: For the Arguments of the Deists which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much Stronger than the Refutations. In short I soon became a thorough Deist.
- Benjamin Franklin -

It goes on and on.

There has been a concerted effort by current day evangelicals to rewrite the history of the founders to try to portray them as all Christians. But this is a lie. The country wasn't founded by christians and was not founded as a 'christian' nation. This is a myth that present day kristians use to comfort themselves.

Yes, you need to learn history. Not the history from the 'creation museum' or billy graham, but actual history.

So Jefferson in that first quote fancies himself knowledgeable in the ways Christians think. Did you know that his friend Richard Price was a minister?

And your second Jefferson quote. He didn't trust theocracies. So what.

And Read Franklin's autobiography just a little farther, when he says that Deism is not very useful. And note these quotes from the same document:

And now I speak of thanking God, I desire with all humility to acknowledge that I owe the mentioned happiness of my past life to His kind providence, which lead me to the means I used and gave them success.​

And conceiving God to be the fountain of wisdom, I thought it right and necessary to solicit his assistance for obtaining it; to this end I formed the following little prayer, which was prefix'd to my tables of examination, for daily use:​

"O powerful Goodness! bountiful Father! merciful Guide! Increase in me that wisdom which discovers my turest interest. Strengthen my resolutions to perform what that wisdom dictates. Accept my kind offices to thy other children as the only return in my power for thy continual favors to me."
​

It gets utterly tiring to have to educate the ignorant over and over.

 

[hortysir]

Christianity appeared and the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

You realize ISIS run a daily campaign of beheading Christians that won't deny Christ,right?

It wouldn't be such a large task if there were fewer Christians in that region

 

[Andylusion]

My reason is somewhat circular, in that I believe America is more Christian because there are a vast number of us that still believe blessings flow from God, not government.

Nothing flows from God that does not have a human as a middle-man. People just have to be good to each other for this world to be a good place to live, why give credit to a God that stubbornly hides from the rational?

"good" implies a moral standard. Morals, implies a moral law. Law implies absolute truth.

Without G-d..... there is no "good". It's just your opinion of what is 'good', verses some other person's view of what is 'good'.

That doesn't work. Anything can be "good", if it's just up to your opinion. Slavery is "good" if man determines what is good.

 

[aris2chat]

Others take their religion as a given, they don't need to advertise or proselytize their beliefs. Most don't shove it in your face. What church you go to is not important.

 

[occupied]

My reason is somewhat circular, in that I believe America is more Christian because there are a vast number of us that still believe blessings flow from God, not government.

Nothing flows from God that does not have a human as a middle-man. People just have to be good to each other for this world to be a good place to live, why give credit to a God that stubbornly hides from the rational?

"good" implies a moral standard. Morals, implies a moral law. Law implies absolute truth.

Without G-d..... there is no "good". It's just your opinion of what is 'good', verses some other person's view of what is 'good'.

That doesn't work. Anything can be "good", if it's just up to your opinion. Slavery is "good" if man determines what is good.

Moral standards are nothing but a set of rationalizations to excuse people who want to act selfishly. Ethical standards, on the other hand, are a rational and philosophically consistent set of rules one can adopt to ensure fairness and decency. Know the difference.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Nothing flows from God that does not have a human as a middle-man. People just have to be good to each other for this world to be a good place to live, why give credit to a God that stubbornly hides from the rational?

• Fair and simple tax laws.
• Public budgets that are balanced by law.
• Transparency in the spending of public funds.
• Focus public spending on transportation and communication infrastructure, education, and basic health care.

Then, build an economy that your kids can drive to the stars.

Still not rocket science, y'all.

 

[Andylusion]

My reason is somewhat circular, in that I believe America is more Christian because there are a vast number of us that still believe blessings flow from God, not government.

Nothing flows from God that does not have a human as a middle-man. People just have to be good to each other for this world to be a good place to live, why give credit to a God that stubbornly hides from the rational?

"good" implies a moral standard. Morals, implies a moral law. Law implies absolute truth.

Without G-d..... there is no "good". It's just your opinion of what is 'good', verses some other person's view of what is 'good'.

That doesn't work. Anything can be "good", if it's just up to your opinion. Slavery is "good" if man determines what is good.

Moral standards are nothing but a set of rationalizations to excuse people who want to act selfishly. Ethical standards, on the other hand, are a rational and philosophically consistent set of rules one can adopt to ensure fairness and decency. Know the difference.

Fairness and decency? Again, those are moral statements. There is no "fairness and decency" in natural law. Only a moral law, can have statements of Fairness and Decency. Again, without G-d, that's just your rationalization of what is moral, verses everyone else.

There are parts of the world, where fair and decent, involves enslavement and honor kills.

What makes your personal rationalization, better than theirs?

 

[Unkotare]

Moral standards are nothing but a set of rationalizations to excuse people who want to act selfishly.....

You clearly do not understand the term.

 

[occupied]

Moral standards are nothing but a set of rationalizations to excuse people who want to act selfishly.....

You clearly do not understand the term.

I understand all too well, moral standards have made all sorts of horrible things commonplace institutions. Right this very minute a twisted set of moral standards let a bunch of monsters feel they will go to heaven after raping little girls and cutting people's heads off. It's not any moral standard we would recognize but it's a standard all the same. Not even going to go into the moral acrobatics that Christianity has performed in the past to make similar things OK or even sanctified, you already know them.

 

[Agit8r]

Christianity appeared and the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

Ironically, it is because the wall of separation between Church and State left the door wide open for more emotionally evocative forms of Christianity to develop and seduce the less genteel populations.

 

[Andylusion]

Christianity appeared and the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

Ironically, it is because the wall of separation between Church and State left the door wide open for more emotionally evocative forms of Christianity to develop and seduce the less genteel populations.

Now that is an interesting statement. I haven't heard this theory before.

So you would suggest that Mark 12:31 "love your neighbor as yourself" was written after the 'wall of separation between Church and State'?

How exactly do you defend that claim?

 

[Agit8r]

Christianity appeared and the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

Ironically, it is because the wall of separation between Church and State left the door wide open for more emotionally evocative forms of Christianity to develop and seduce the less genteel populations.

Now that is an interesting statement. I haven't heard this theory before.

So you would suggest that Mark 12:31 "love your neighbor as yourself" was written after the 'wall of separation between Church and State'?

How exactly do you defend that claim?

Is that more emotionally evocative than "spiritual warfare" or the "prosperity gospel"? Is that consistent with how Americans treat one another more than the "faithless" Europeans? I dare say that it is not. Loving one's neighbor and being merciful to one's enemies is no more the foundation of American Christianity than it is of Humanism.

 

[LittleNipper]

Christianity appeared in the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

Historic American culture was founded by people who respected Biblical based education and personal Scripture reading with the coming of the Reformation.

European "Christianity" was steeped in traditionalism and a political religion founded on Papal control and declarations. The citizens were not encouraged to understand the Bible on their own with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They were trained to allow the "church authorities" to explain what God wanted and Biblical meaning. In fact they were not even encouraged to attend church services ---- merely pay the tithe. The "church authorities " would take care of the rest.
This is exactly what is wrong with Islam. --- it promotes exactly the very same thing --- cleric control!.

 

[Andylusion]

Christianity appeared and the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

Ironically, it is because the wall of separation between Church and State left the door wide open for more emotionally evocative forms of Christianity to develop and seduce the less genteel populations.

Now that is an interesting statement. I haven't heard this theory before.

So you would suggest that Mark 12:31 "love your neighbor as yourself" was written after the 'wall of separation between Church and State'?

How exactly do you defend that claim?

Is that more emotionally evocative than "spiritual warfare" or the "prosperity gospel"? Is that consistent with how Americans treat one another more than the "faithless" Europeans? I dare say that it is not. Loving one's neighbor and being merciful to one's enemies is no more the foundation of American Christianity than it is of Humanism.

Ah I see. Well I don't believe in "American Christianity" to begin with. You are either a Christian, or you are not. Nationality is secondary, and by a very wide margin.

America is not 'christian'. People can be Christian. America is a country filled with people, most of whom are not Christian.

 

[Taz]

Christianity appeared and the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

Ironically, it is because the wall of separation between Church and State left the door wide open for more emotionally evocative forms of Christianity to develop and seduce the less genteel populations.

Now that is an interesting statement. I haven't heard this theory before.

So you would suggest that Mark 12:31 "love your neighbor as yourself" was written after the 'wall of separation between Church and State'?

How exactly do you defend that claim?

My reason is somewhat circular, in that I believe America is more Christian because there are a vast number of us that still believe blessings flow from God, not government.

Nothing flows from God that does not have a human as a middle-man. People just have to be good to each other for this world to be a good place to live, why give credit to a God that stubbornly hides from the rational?

"good" implies a moral standard. Morals, implies a moral law. Law implies absolute truth.

Without G-d..... there is no "good". It's just your opinion of what is 'good', verses some other person's view of what is 'good'.

That doesn't work. Anything can be "good", if it's just up to your opinion. Slavery is "good" if man determines what is good.

Without God, no one gets sent to hell. So if God is so good why I he sending people to burn in hell in the first place?

 

[Taz]

Christianity appeared and the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

Ironically, it is because the wall of separation between Church and State left the door wide open for more emotionally evocative forms of Christianity to develop and seduce the less genteel populations.

Now that is an interesting statement. I haven't heard this theory before.

So you would suggest that Mark 12:31 "love your neighbor as yourself" was written after the 'wall of separation between Church and State'?

How exactly do you defend that claim?

Is that more emotionally evocative than "spiritual warfare" or the "prosperity gospel"? Is that consistent with how Americans treat one another more than the "faithless" Europeans? I dare say that it is not. Loving one's neighbor and being merciful to one's enemies is no more the foundation of American Christianity than it is of Humanism.

Ah I see. Well I don't believe in "American Christianity" to begin with. You are either a Christian, or you are not. Nationality is secondary, and by a very wide margin.

America is not 'christian'. People can be Christian. America is a country filled with people, most of whom are not Christian.

The U.S. Is one nation under God and in God we trust on the money. If that doesn't make it a Christian nation, then which God do you trust?

 

[Andylusion]

Christianity appeared and the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

Ironically, it is because the wall of separation between Church and State left the door wide open for more emotionally evocative forms of Christianity to develop and seduce the less genteel populations.

Now that is an interesting statement. I haven't heard this theory before.

So you would suggest that Mark 12:31 "love your neighbor as yourself" was written after the 'wall of separation between Church and State'?

How exactly do you defend that claim?

My reason is somewhat circular, in that I believe America is more Christian because there are a vast number of us that still believe blessings flow from God, not government.

Nothing flows from God that does not have a human as a middle-man. People just have to be good to each other for this world to be a good place to live, why give credit to a God that stubbornly hides from the rational?

"good" implies a moral standard. Morals, implies a moral law. Law implies absolute truth.

Without G-d..... there is no "good". It's just your opinion of what is 'good', verses some other person's view of what is 'good'.

That doesn't work. Anything can be "good", if it's just up to your opinion. Slavery is "good" if man determines what is good.

Without God, no one gets sent to hell. So if God is so good why I he sending people to burn in hell in the first place?

That's not how Christians think about it.

To a Christian, we were driving a speeding car towards the Grand Canyon. Except, we didn't know there was a Grand Canyon.

G-d is like the police officer trying to stop us from driving over the cliff. He's not trying to pull us over to condemn us, even though it may feel like it. He's trying to stop us from destroying ourselves driving off the edge into the Grand Canyon.

This is why we call it "being saved". All of us have already condemned ourselves.

Romans chapter 2 says that the non-believers may not know the law, and yet they in their heart know right from wrong, and thus are a law to themselves. Verse 15 of Chapter 2, says that even the pagans know they violate their own laws, and condemn themselves.

People get this white throne judgement really mixed up, and think that G-d is going to sit up there, and point his fingers at people. Not true. G-d is going to call other people as witness against you. Your friends. Your family. Your spouse or 'partner' (whatever they call screwing around these days). Your co-workers. Your boss. And even your own memory, and perjury isn't going to be an option.

We that are real Christians, we know we were condemned. And deserved whatever punishment to come.

Again, that's why we call it "being saved". G-d isn't sending us... he's saving us from where we were going.

And while it may seem like a great idea to just get rid of G-d, and then we don't have to worry about any of this.... there's another side. Like... what's the point of all this? Just to work every day of your life, grow old, and die, and have the total summery of your life, as a "-" A dash between two dates, on a bit of white rock in the middle of a grassy field.

Without G-d... that's it for you. That's your entire life, wrapped up on a rock, that no one remembers or cares about.

Life is hard. Life is unfair. Life is painful.

I for one, am happy that there is a Heaven. When all you see of me, is a stone in a grassy field, I'll be having a party in Heaven. Can't wait honestly. Looking forward to it.

 

[Taz]

Christianity appeared and the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

Ironically, it is because the wall of separation between Church and State left the door wide open for more emotionally evocative forms of Christianity to develop and seduce the less genteel populations.

Now that is an interesting statement. I haven't heard this theory before.

So you would suggest that Mark 12:31 "love your neighbor as yourself" was written after the 'wall of separation between Church and State'?

How exactly do you defend that claim?

My reason is somewhat circular, in that I believe America is more Christian because there are a vast number of us that still believe blessings flow from God, not government.

Nothing flows from God that does not have a human as a middle-man. People just have to be good to each other for this world to be a good place to live, why give credit to a God that stubbornly hides from the rational?

"good" implies a moral standard. Morals, implies a moral law. Law implies absolute truth.

Without G-d..... there is no "good". It's just your opinion of what is 'good', verses some other person's view of what is 'good'.

That doesn't work. Anything can be "good", if it's just up to your opinion. Slavery is "good" if man determines what is good.

Without God, no one gets sent to hell. So if God is so good why I he sending people to burn in hell in the first place?

That's not how Christians think about it.

To a Christian, we were driving a speeding car towards the Grand Canyon. Except, we didn't know there was a Grand Canyon.

G-d is like the police officer trying to stop us from driving over the cliff. He's not trying to pull us over to condemn us, even though it may feel like it. He's trying to stop us from destroying ourselves driving off the edge into the Grand Canyon.

This is why we call it "being saved". All of us have already condemned ourselves.

Romans chapter 2 says that the non-believers may not know the law, and yet they in their heart know right from wrong, and thus are a law to themselves. Verse 15 of Chapter 2, says that even the pagans know they violate their own laws, and condemn themselves.

People get this white throne judgement really mixed up, and think that G-d is going to sit up there, and point his fingers at people. Not true. G-d is going to call other people as witness against you. Your friends. Your family. Your spouse or 'partner' (whatever they call screwing around these days). Your co-workers. Your boss. And even your own memory, and perjury isn't going to be an option.

We that are real Christians, we know we were condemned. And deserved whatever punishment to come.

Again, that's why we call it "being saved". G-d isn't sending us... he's saving us from where we were going.

And while it may seem like a great idea to just get rid of G-d, and then we don't have to worry about any of this.... there's another side. Like... what's the point of all this? Just to work every day of your life, grow old, and die, and have the total summery of your life, as a "-" A dash between two dates, on a bit of white rock in the middle of a grassy field.

Without G-d... that's it for you. That's your entire life, wrapped up on a rock, that no one remembers or cares about.

Life is hard. Life is unfair. Life is painful.

I for one, am happy that there is a Heaven. When all you see of me, is a stone in a grassy field, I'll be having a party in Heaven. Can't wait honestly. Looking forward to it.

You have no proof that there's a heaven, that's one of the main problems.

 

[Agit8r]

Christianity appeared and the Middle East and spread in Europe profoundly.
Taking into consideration the severe years of inquisition I may suppose that Europe should be far more "Christian" than the USA...
Americans tend to follow the traditions and the belief of Christianity a lot more than the rest of Western civilization. How can this be?

Ironically, it is because the wall of separation between Church and State left the door wide open for more emotionally evocative forms of Christianity to develop and seduce the less genteel populations.

Now that is an interesting statement. I haven't heard this theory before.

So you would suggest that Mark 12:31 "love your neighbor as yourself" was written after the 'wall of separation between Church and State'?

How exactly do you defend that claim?

Is that more emotionally evocative than "spiritual warfare" or the "prosperity gospel"? Is that consistent with how Americans treat one another more than the "faithless" Europeans? I dare say that it is not. Loving one's neighbor and being merciful to one's enemies is no more the foundation of American Christianity than it is of Humanism.

Ah I see. Well I don't believe in "American Christianity" to begin with. You are either a Christian, or you are not. Nationality is secondary, and by a very wide margin.

America is not 'christian'. People can be Christian. America is a country filled with people, most of whom are not Christian.

Different regions have a different take on Christianity. Some include animal sacrifices in their customs. The Roman churches include a pantheon of saints.

In this way I am referring to the homegrown Christian traditions, especially in the South and Midwest U.S. They incorporate a considerable amount of shamanistic belief, such as "spiritual warfare," "faith-healing," etc.