Why is naturalism considered scientific and creationism is not ?

[Youwerecreated]

Other than a need to defend your dogma, I can't imagine why you're asking for explanations that have been provided to you on multiple occasions.

Hollie you should try and be honest. I did not ask these questions before.

yes you did. just not in the same way.
so either you're being as dishonest as you always are or you're having memory issues ?

oh boy that was concerning living fossils.

 

[Hollie]

You're too funny. That is why I asked the questions you know the threat it would be to a small group. Why would I think that a completely new kind of organism would start out with a large group ?who is making shit up ? These new kinds not only had to over come genetic disorder but inbreeding in small groups.

Speaking of "kinds" (a meaningless term in science), wouldn't inbreeding have affected the population that resulted from Noah and his immediate family tasked with re-populating the planet... after the flood... which there is no evidence for?

Why do your gawds allow such... "immoral" behavior?

Here you go troll!

genre
noun \ˈzhän-rə, ˈzhäⁿ-; ˈzhäⁿr; ˈjän-rə\
1
: a category of artistic, musical, or literary composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content
2
: kind, sort

genous
Web definitions
kind (type) (suffix).

Are you really this clueless?

Your references to "kinds" as delineated in the various bibles has no definition with regard to evolutionary biology.

 

[orogenicman]

You're too funny. That is why I asked the questions you know the threat it would be to a small group. Why would I think that a completely new kind of organism would start out with a large group ?who is making shit up ? These new kinds not only had to over come genetic disorder but inbreeding in small groups.

Because you don't understand a thing about population dynamics, much less genetics. A species with a low population count and a high mutation rate is not likely going to survive long. But that is not the situation with most species. It's a friggin red herring.

Population dynamics ? how in the world are you gonna study something you can't observe

Erm? Who says we can't observe populations? Are you drunk?

Do you realize how stupid what you're insinuating is. How long do you think two completely different kinds hang around each other once they diverge ? You look in the animal kingdom notice how mostly keep to themselves ?

You obviously have never studied coral reefs.

Where do all the genetic disorders go ? if all organisms were related every friggen genetic disorder would wind up getting passed on.do you think they just disappear ? Don't tell me what I understand and do understand when you can't even offer a rational rebuttal.

If everyone in a population had the same genetic disorder, if it was a fatal one, that population would not long survive. Why are you having difficulty with this? If only 1/3 have the disorder, the ones that don't have it tend to survive to reproduce, and the disorder is mostly to entirely eliminated. THAT is evolution.

Humans alone have 6,000 genetic disorders that are inherited.

Yes, and most of them are not fatal.

You can't even come close to matching that number with beneficial mutations.

The fact that humans still exist on this planet and haven't died off due to all the mutations shows that you are wrong.

 

[daws101]

You're too funny. That is why I asked the questions you know the threat it would be to a small group. Why would I think that a completely new kind of organism would start out with a large group ?who is making shit up ? These new kinds not only had to over come genetic disorder but inbreeding in small groups.

Because you don't understand a thing about population dynamics, much less genetics. A species with a low population count and a high mutation rate is not likely going to survive long. But that is not the situation with most species. It's a friggin red herring.

Population dynamics ? how in the world are you gonna study something you can't observe

Do you realize how stupid what you're insinuating is. How long do you think two completely different kinds hang around each other once they diverge ? You look in the animal kingdom notice how mostly keep to themselves ?

Where do all the genetic disorders go ? if all organisms were related every friggen genetic disorder would wind up getting passed on.do you think they just disappear ? Don't tell me what I understand and do understand when you can't even offer a rational rebuttal.

Humans alone have 6,000 genetic disorders that are inherited. You can't even come close to matching that number with beneficial mutations. If you understood mutation fixation, you would understand what a problem that is being able to point to more harmful mutations vs beneficial mutations.

really ? that's funny because the bible is full of events that no one observed like genesis..
btw he was not insinuating ..he said it clearly.
n·sin·u·ate [ in sínnyoo àyt ]
imply something: to hint at something unpleasant or suggest it indirectly and gradually
worm your way in: to introduce yourself gradually and cunningly into a position, especially a place of confidence or favor ..

 

[daws101]

When you get done with that then explain how each family group being small, how would they survive inbreeding unless they were near perfect with no genetic disorders ? This fits the creation model.

since the human race did not
begin with the mythical two people you wish it did and as the creation myth is a myth.
you can claim anything you want
in reality genetic disorders are part of nature.
and the sister fucking you wish happened never did.

Hey slapdick, how do you know ? after all they believe it was so unlikely that a cell could fully form to begin with that they said all things originated from one cell but they admit ignorance on this issue as well.

1. who they fuck is they?
2. i know because you have no evidence at all.
3.the actual evidence proves my second sentence to be fact.

 

[daws101]

Hollie you should try and be honest. I did not ask these questions before.

yes you did. just not in the same way.
so either you're being as dishonest as you always are or you're having memory issues ?

oh boy that was concerning living fossils.

now you're just lying .
btw you got your ass handed to you on that one also...denial in 5....4...3..2.1

 

[Hollie]

Because you don't understand a thing about population dynamics, much less genetics. A species with a low population count and a high mutation rate is not likely going to survive long. But that is not the situation with most species. It's a friggin red herring.

Population dynamics ? how in the world are you gonna study something you can't observe

Erm? Who says we can't observe populations? Are you drunk?o




You obviously have never studied coral reefs.



If everyone in a population had the same genetic disorder, if it was a fatal one, that population would not long survive. Why are you having difficulty with this? If only 1/3 have the disorder, the ones that don't have it tend to survive to reproduce, and the disorder is mostly to entirely eliminated. THAT is evolution.

Humans alone have 6,000 genetic disorders that are inherited.

Yes, and most of them are not fatal.

You can't even come close to matching that number with beneficial mutations.

The fact that humans still exist on this planet and haven't died off due to all the mutations shows that you are wrong.

Oh my. It's true that the human population has grown in the last 6,000 years...you know.... since the gods put humans on the planet. Did the gods somehow drop the ball on this mutation thing?

 

[daws101]

according to YWC nothing can be known or studied without observation.
an analogy: YWC leaves his home to spread the word and annoy people at his local court house or home depot.
while he's gone, his neighbor mows his lawn (not YWC'S BUT HIS OWN) and ywc wife takes the kids and leaves him, leaving the house a mess.
using ywc twisted logic does he assume that these two events did not happen or declares they were caused by some leaves no proof supernatural event.
or does he choose to except the actual evidence.?

 

[Beachboy]

When I hear someone is a creationist, I know I can make them believe almost anything I want. I can sell them the Brooklyn Bridge!

"Creationism" is based on the fiction of the Bible, and has no substantiation from any other source. That's what makes it fiction. Science requires verification of facts from more than one credible source of information. While believers in Creationism are usually poorly educated, I would not throw out Christianity just because of the creationism flaw. There are some good ideas to be had in the Bible, starting with the Golden Rule. Great advice as a way to live your life.

See the movie Inherit the Wind, you can understand the truth of science and evolution in about two hours.
​

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_DQUAuNUvw

​

Poorly educated ? Many Creationists have attended secular schools so do you blame the institutions ?

another big fucking deal response.
like yourself THAT MINISCULE amount of creationists tossed reality out like a chamber pot in favor of a comforting fantasy.

I would probably blame the parents who spend $4,300 a year to send their children to brainwashing academies. Doesn't really matter though, once the kids get to a real college, or into the working world, they quickly throw away the bull shit for reality or they fail. Ever wonder why you never see an Evangelical reach VP in Fortune 500 company? Think about it, they can't deal with reality!

​

I believe your line, most "creationists tossed reality out like a chamber pot in favor of comforting fantasy."

 

[Youwerecreated]

Because you don't understand a thing about population dynamics, much less genetics. A species with a low population count and a high mutation rate is not likely going to survive long. But that is not the situation with most species. It's a friggin red herring.

Population dynamics ? how in the world are you gonna study something you can't observe

Erm? Who says we can't observe populations? Are you drunk?




You obviously have never studied coral reefs.



If everyone in a population had the same genetic disorder, if it was a fatal one, that population would not long survive. Why are you having difficulty with this? If only 1/3 have the disorder, the ones that don't have it tend to survive to reproduce, and the disorder is mostly to entirely eliminated. THAT is evolution.

Humans alone have 6,000 genetic disorders that are inherited.

Yes, and most of them are not fatal.

You can't even come close to matching that number with beneficial mutations.

The fact that humans still exist on this planet and haven't died off due to all the mutations shows that you are wrong.

You can't study the groups of organisms that existed in the supposed distant past. You were not there to see if they even diverged and how big the population was once they diverged. Not if man was here for a short period of time vs millions of years. But remember they have been accumulating genetic disorders for as long as they have been on this planet. By all the new genetic disorders that have come in to the population in the last hundred years, it is kinda hard to believe man has been on this planet as long as the science community claims.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Because you don't understand a thing about population dynamics, much less genetics. A species with a low population count and a high mutation rate is not likely going to survive long. But that is not the situation with most species. It's a friggin red herring.

Population dynamics ? how in the world are you gonna study something you can't observe

Do you realize how stupid what you're insinuating is. How long do you think two completely different kinds hang around each other once they diverge ? You look in the animal kingdom notice how mostly keep to themselves ?

Where do all the genetic disorders go ? if all organisms were related every friggen genetic disorder would wind up getting passed on.do you think they just disappear ? Don't tell me what I understand and do understand when you can't even offer a rational rebuttal.

Humans alone have 6,000 genetic disorders that are inherited. You can't even come close to matching that number with beneficial mutations. If you understood mutation fixation, you would understand what a problem that is being able to point to more harmful mutations vs beneficial mutations.

really ? that's funny because the bible is full of events that no one observed like genesis..
btw he was not insinuating ..he said it clearly.
n·sin·u·ate [ in sínnyoo àyt ]
imply something: to hint at something unpleasant or suggest it indirectly and gradually
worm your way in: to introduce yourself gradually and cunningly into a position, especially a place of confidence or favor ..

That is correct, we have faith just as you do

 

[Youwerecreated]

since the human race did not
begin with the mythical two people you wish it did and as the creation myth is a myth.
you can claim anything you want
in reality genetic disorders are part of nature.
and the sister fucking you wish happened never did.

Hey slapdick, how do you know ? after all they believe it was so unlikely that a cell could fully form to begin with that they said all things originated from one cell but they admit ignorance on this issue as well.

1. who they fuck is they?
2. i know because you have no evidence at all.
3.the actual evidence proves my second sentence to be fact.

The science community nitwit.

 

[Youwerecreated]

yes you did. just not in the same way.
so either you're being as dishonest as you always are or you're having memory issues ?

oh boy that was concerning living fossils.

now you're just lying .
btw you got your ass handed to you on that one also...denial in 5....4...3..2.1

You can dream.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Population dynamics ? how in the world are you gonna study something you can't observe

Erm? Who says we can't observe populations? Are you drunk?o




You obviously have never studied coral reefs.



If everyone in a population had the same genetic disorder, if it was a fatal one, that population would not long survive. Why are you having difficulty with this? If only 1/3 have the disorder, the ones that don't have it tend to survive to reproduce, and the disorder is mostly to entirely eliminated. THAT is evolution.



Yes, and most of them are not fatal.

You can't even come close to matching that number with beneficial mutations.

The fact that humans still exist on this planet and haven't died off due to all the mutations shows that you are wrong.

Oh my. It's true that the human population has grown in the last 6,000 years...you know.... since the gods put humans on the planet. Did the gods somehow drop the ball on this mutation thing?

Yep,the population explosion since noah is not far off from the population size at this moment. Can you imagine how big the population would be if we actually were on the planet as long as the science community claims or how many fossils and graves would be out there.

 

[orogenicman]

Population dynamics ? how in the world are you gonna study something you can't observe

Erm? Who says we can't observe populations? Are you drunk?




You obviously have never studied coral reefs.



If everyone in a population had the same genetic disorder, if it was a fatal one, that population would not long survive. Why are you having difficulty with this? If only 1/3 have the disorder, the ones that don't have it tend to survive to reproduce, and the disorder is mostly to entirely eliminated. THAT is evolution.



Yes, and most of them are not fatal.

You can't even come close to matching that number with beneficial mutations.

The fact that humans still exist on this planet and haven't died off due to all the mutations shows that you are wrong.

You can't study the groups of organisms that existed in the supposed distant past. You were not there to see if they even diverged and how big the population was once they diverged. Not if man was here for a short period of time vs millions of years. But remember they have been accumulating genetic disorders for as long as they have been on this planet. By all the new genetic disorders that have come in to the population in the last hundred years, it is kinda hard to believe man has been on this planet as long as the science community claims.

Dude, yes we can. There are millions of species of plants and animals living today. We continuously study thousands upon thousands of species every day. We have a great understanding of ecosystems, and the flora and fauna that live in them. We can very easily compare, for instance, what crinoids was doing 300 million years ago based on what they do today. And fish, and crocodiles, and pretty much any animal you can name. Furthermore, we are there, in the past, right in the middle of the fossil bone beds studying them in great detail.

Once again, I challenge you to meet me in the field, and we can see first hand what the rocks and the fossils tell us. I am a geologist with 29 years of field experience. What field experience do you have? Any at all. I'm not a mass murderer, just someone who wants to set the record straight. I've made this offer to at least ten different creationists on different forums, and not surprisingly, none have taken me up on the challenge, because, frankly, they know that their dream world would come crumbling down in the face of reality. Others have jumped at the chance. So come on grasshopper. Let me take you to the Falls of the Ohio River State Park, in Clarksville, Indiana, and show you in the field how wrong you are. My best friend is the curator/naturalist there, so we can get the run of the place.

Falls of the Ohio State Park

If that doesn't work for you, then we could meet outside of the Creation Museum in Northern Kentucky, and I can show you how the very bedrock the museum is built on refutes everything they've spent millions of dollars lying to you about.

 

[Hollie]

Erm? Who says we can't observe populations? Are you drunk?o




You obviously have never studied coral reefs.



If everyone in a population had the same genetic disorder, if it was a fatal one, that population would not long survive. Why are you having difficulty with this? If only 1/3 have the disorder, the ones that don't have it tend to survive to reproduce, and the disorder is mostly to entirely eliminated. THAT is evolution.



Yes, and most of them are not fatal.



The fact that humans still exist on this planet and haven't died off due to all the mutations shows that you are wrong.

Oh my. It's true that the human population has grown in the last 6,000 years...you know.... since the gods put humans on the planet. Did the gods somehow drop the ball on this mutation thing?

Yep,the population explosion since noah is not far off from the population size at this moment. Can you imagine how big the population would be if we actually were on the planet as long as the science community claims or how many fossils and graves would be out there.

That is possibly... possibly, your most out of touch, delusional comment to date. You really are the poster child for the dangers of religious extremism.

 

[orogenicman]

History of world population growth.

World History for Us All: Key Theme One

 

[Bumberclyde]

Erm? Who says we can't observe populations? Are you drunk?o

You obviously have never studied coral reefs.
If everyone in a population had the same genetic disorder, if it was a fatal one, that population would not long survive. Why are you having difficulty with this? If only 1/3 have the disorder, the ones that don't have it tend to survive to reproduce, and the disorder is mostly to entirely eliminated. THAT is evolution.
Yes, and most of them are not fatal.
The fact that humans still exist on this planet and haven't died off due to all the mutations shows that you are wrong.

Oh my. It's true that the human population has grown in the last 6,000 years...you know.... since the gods put humans on the planet. Did the gods somehow drop the ball on this mutation thing?

Yep,the population explosion since noah is not far off from the population size at this moment. Can you imagine how big the population would be if we actually were on the planet as long as the science community claims or how many fossils and graves would be out there.

So now the creationist side is using fossils in their arguments? That must be new.

But please support this statement: "Can you imagine how big the population would be if we actually were on the planet as long as the science community claims or how many fossils and graves would be out there." Ok, give me a number, and why. Or are you just blowing fartsmoke?

 

[orogenicman]

I thought this ought to be said somewhere in this thread:

Brian Cox: it is not acceptable to promote bad science (or non-science as science):

 

[orogenicman]