Why is naturalism considered scientific and creationism is not ?

[orogenicman]

The fossil record has always been used by creationists. The fossil record better fits the creation model.

In order to fit the fossil record into your creation nonsense, you have to throw out more than 99% of the fossil record. Get real.

Do you realize how they put a fossil tree together ?

Absolutely, I do. Obviously you don't.

it's like a putting a puzzle together they have all these fossils and determine their order that best fits the theory ,hardly scientific. Explain the many fossils found in the wrong strata. How do you explain the fossil graveyards ?

None of that is right. We don't fit the fossils to the theory. That's what you people do. We match the theory to the fossils. If a new fossil is found that doesn't fit, we don't file the fossil down to make it fit the theory, we re-analyze all our data, and if necessary, change the theory. That is how science works.

The only fossils found in the wrong strata are found in disturbed strata, or are mistaken for some other species (which has happened on a number of occasions). Bone beds are accumulations of plants and/or animals that have lived in the same area for generations to millions of years. Some bone beds show evidence of disarticulation due to weathering and strong ocean currents. Others show complete specimens deposited in low velocity currents to quiet water environments. Often we find strata with three or more different current environments represented vertically and horizontally through time. And many appear packed tightly together because they represent multiple generations all living on the same reef one generation after the other. That is the dominant way reefs are constructed. We see this pattern in Devonian aged reefs here where I live all the way to the current great barrier reef. We find fossils in sandstone, shale, limestone, chert, and dolostone environments, which represent a variety of depositional environments both vertically and laterally through the strata and vertically and laterally through the water column (from shallow lagoons to abyssal plains), none of which indicate a massive global flood at any time in Earth's history. We are well versed in flood deposits. There are no global flood deposits - ANYWHERE ON EARTH. The closest you can get is what we saw with the earthquakes and resulting tsunamis that occurred in Sumatra and Japan, and those only affected coastlines and up to 6-10 miles of the interior. And those were among the largest earthquakes the Earth can generate. And they don't last 40 days and 40 nights. Sorry, dude.

 

[orogenicman]

What do you think they do by believing theories that are mostly supported by conjecture not evidence ?

Erm, large hadron collider is not conjecture. A sigma 5 rating is not conjecture. Anyone who thinks it is conjecture is stupid beyond belief. Congratulations.

Do you realize hadron collider is just under development ?

Do you realize that the LHC had been in operation for over two years before they shut it down for upgrades a few months ago to tamp up the power? Do you realize that last year they found the Higgs Boson with the LHC with a confidence level of sigma five (the highest level of confidence)?

 

[orogenicman]

Do a search on google fossil record and check the creationist sites. A couple of problems for evolutionists are graveyards of fossils all over the planet,and fossils found in the wrong strata.

Well, then, you won't mind joining me on a field trip and proving that statement to me in person, in the field, on some fossil beds. Right? Say, these, for instance?

Falls of the Ohio State Park

Come on, grasshopper. Come out into the field with me, and put your money where your mouth is.

I would be more than happy if you will make a trip to the grand canyon with our crew.

I can't make that trip because I am on disability, and can't afford the trip and could not physically do it if I could afford it. My trip is much easier and makes the point just as well.

 

[orogenicman]

You defeat your own argument when you claim beneficial mutations because they are very rare, there is a reason for that.

That is not true. If they were very rare, you wouldn't be here. If that is all you got out of my response, then you are well and truly fucked up. You have my sympathy.

I don't believe I am here from a cell evolving.

Well, believe it, because you are.

I believe I was created and given the ability to adapt not evolve biologically. You want to believe you are a mutation have at it but you don't possess evidence to support that view.

It isn't a matter of wanting to believe. It is what it is. Does your index finger curve towards your middle finger when you hold your hand up with your fingers straight but together?

 

[daws101]

Population dynamics ? how in the world are you gonna study something you can't observe

Erm? Who says we can't observe populations? Are you drunk?




You obviously have never studied coral reefs.



If everyone in a population had the same genetic disorder, if it was a fatal one, that population would not long survive. Why are you having difficulty with this? If only 1/3 have the disorder, the ones that don't have it tend to survive to reproduce, and the disorder is mostly to entirely eliminated. THAT is evolution.



Yes, and most of them are not fatal.

You can't even come close to matching that number with beneficial mutations.

The fact that humans still exist on this planet and haven't died off due to all the mutations shows that you are wrong.

You can't study the groups of organisms that existed in the supposed distant past. You were not there to see if they even diverged and how big the population was once they diverged. Not if man was here for a short period of time vs millions of years. But remember they have been accumulating genetic disorders for as long as they have been on this planet. By all the new genetic disorders that have come in to the population in the last hundred years, it is kinda hard to believe man has been on this planet as long as the science community claims.

 

[daws101]

Population dynamics ? how in the world are you gonna study something you can't observe

Do you realize how stupid what you're insinuating is. How long do you think two completely different kinds hang around each other once they diverge ? You look in the animal kingdom notice how mostly keep to themselves ?

Where do all the genetic disorders go ? if all organisms were related every friggen genetic disorder would wind up getting passed on.do you think they just disappear ? Don't tell me what I understand and do understand when you can't even offer a rational rebuttal.

Humans alone have 6,000 genetic disorders that are inherited. You can't even come close to matching that number with beneficial mutations. If you understood mutation fixation, you would understand what a problem that is being able to point to more harmful mutations vs beneficial mutations.

really ? that's funny because the bible is full of events that no one observed like genesis..
btw he was not insinuating ..he said it clearly.
n·sin·u·ate [ in sínnyoo àyt ]
imply something: to hint at something unpleasant or suggest it indirectly and gradually
worm your way in: to introduce yourself gradually and cunningly into a position, especially a place of confidence or favor ..

That is correct, we have faith just as you do

what is correct? slapdick? your answer is nonsense..
your own twisted logic says if you weren't there to see it then it didn't happen.
faith on the other hand assumes "IT" happened with no proof.
contradict yourself much..

 

[daws101]

Hey slapdick, how do you know ? after all they believe it was so unlikely that a cell could fully form to begin with that they said all things originated from one cell but they admit ignorance on this issue as well.

1. who they fuck is they?
2. i know because you have no evidence at all.
3.the actual evidence proves my second sentence to be fact.

The science community nitwit.

you mean the one who can back up their theories with evidence?
unlike the creationist / id / religious dogma community that can't?

 

[daws101]

oh boy that was concerning living fossils.

now you're just lying .
btw you got your ass handed to you on that one also...denial in 5....4...3..2.1

You can dream.

you've just proven my statement correct.

 

[daws101]

Erm? Who says we can't observe populations? Are you drunk?o




You obviously have never studied coral reefs.



If everyone in a population had the same genetic disorder, if it was a fatal one, that population would not long survive. Why are you having difficulty with this? If only 1/3 have the disorder, the ones that don't have it tend to survive to reproduce, and the disorder is mostly to entirely eliminated. THAT is evolution.



Yes, and most of them are not fatal.



The fact that humans still exist on this planet and haven't died off due to all the mutations shows that you are wrong.

Oh my. It's true that the human population has grown in the last 6,000 years...you know.... since the gods put humans on the planet. Did the gods somehow drop the ball on this mutation thing?

Yep,the population explosion since noah is not far off from the population size at this moment. Can you imagine how big the population would be if we actually were on the planet as long as the science community claims or how many fossils and graves would be out there.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Erm? Who says we can't observe populations? Are you drunk?




You obviously have never studied coral reefs.



If everyone in a population had the same genetic disorder, if it was a fatal one, that population would not long survive. Why are you having difficulty with this? If only 1/3 have the disorder, the ones that don't have it tend to survive to reproduce, and the disorder is mostly to entirely eliminated. THAT is evolution.



Yes, and most of them are not fatal.



The fact that humans still exist on this planet and haven't died off due to all the mutations shows that you are wrong.

You can't study the groups of organisms that existed in the supposed distant past. You were not there to see if they even diverged and how big the population was once they diverged. Not if man was here for a short period of time vs millions of years. But remember they have been accumulating genetic disorders for as long as they have been on this planet. By all the new genetic disorders that have come in to the population in the last hundred years, it is kinda hard to believe man has been on this planet as long as the science community claims.

Everyone knows the dinosaurs used laser weapons.

 

[daws101]

History of world population growth.

World History for Us All: Key Theme One

The thing is your supposed evidence you just offered was only assumption and numbers for a population they had no way of knowing.

Lets give you a more scientific one.

World Population Since Creation

that's pseudoscience slapdick... his "work" is based on the same false premise you SPEW FROM..he cannot prove god created anything so this:" World Population Since Creation"is specious speculative fiction. and not science.
there are no peer reviews ....

 

[daws101]

I would probably blame the parents who spend $4,300 a year to send their children to brainwashing academies. Doesn't really matter though, once the kids get to a real college, or into the working world, they quickly throw away the bull shit for reality or they fail. Ever wonder why you never see an Evangelical reach VP in Fortune 500 company? Think about it, they can't deal with reality!


I believe your line, most "creationists tossed reality out like a chamber pot in favor of comforting fantasy."

Since you work at Burger King, you have no idea what executive V.P.'s believe.

I have run into extremely religious V.P. and Presidents of large companies.

You substitute your bigotry for reality, and wind up looking the fool.

speaking of looking like an asshole..
can you prove you have or are you just as always engaging in douchebaggery?

 

[daws101]

You defeat your own argument when you claim beneficial mutations because they are very rare, there is a reason for that.

That is not true. If they were very rare, you wouldn't be here. If that is all you got out of my response, then you are well and truly fucked up. You have my sympathy.

I don't believe I am here from a cell evolving. I believe I was created and given the ability to adapt not evolve biologically. You want to believe you are a mutation have at it but you don't possess evidence to support that view.

your belief in being created is not supported by any actual process or theory...as you've already proven countless times you wouldn't know evidence if it bitch slapped you ..
it has and you didn't.

 

[Beachboy]

That is not true. If they were very rare, you wouldn't be here. If that is all you got out of my response, then you are well and truly fucked up. You have my sympathy.

I don't believe I am here from a cell evolving. I believe I was created and given the ability to adapt not evolve biologically. You want to believe you are a mutation have at it but you don't possess evidence to support that view.

your belief in being created is not supported by any actual process or theory...as you've already proven countless times you wouldn't know evidence if it bitch slapped you ..
it has and you didn't.

Daws101, what we have to remember is that all religions try to "get them while they are young." Children are unable to ask the tough questions to rationally evaluate religious philosophy such as creationism. With the help of parents and the church, (who always has their hand out for a buck), they fill the child's head full of slop.

By the time, or if at all, the the child matures and asks the hard, logical questions about the religion, their "faith" glosses over reality. They can not be deprogrammed, they have an answer, (unsubstantiated though it is), for everything. They believe the bull shit too deeply.

Now, don't take me as anti-religion here because there are some really good ideas in the Bible, and other holy books, but there are many other good books as well, starting with Darwin's Theory of Evolution which has been substantiated by highly credible sources as well. I have met intellectuals who believe that Evolution and the Bible are not in conflict, but you really have to work to understand that. I accept their arguments. When you evaluate both sides, they are really not contradictory in the broad brush strokes. Where one gets into trouble is when they take the Bible literally. Remember when the Bible was written, education was a rarity, so stories were used to explain concepts such as good and evil.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I don't believe I am here from a cell evolving. I believe I was created and given the ability to adapt not evolve biologically. You want to believe you are a mutation have at it but you don't possess evidence to support that view.

your belief in being created is not supported by any actual process or theory...as you've already proven countless times you wouldn't know evidence if it bitch slapped you ..
it has and you didn't.

Daws101, what we have to remember is that all religions try to "get them while they are young." Children are unable to ask the tough questions to rationally evaluate religious philosophy such as creationism. With the help of parents and the church, (who always has their hand out for a buck), they fill the child's head full of slop.

By the time, or if at all, the the child matures and asks the hard, logical questions about the religion, their "faith" glosses over reality. They can not be deprogrammed, they have an answer, (unsubstantiated though it is), for everything. They believe the bull shit too deeply.

Now, don't take me as anti-religion here because there are some really good ideas in the Bible, and other holy books, but there are many other good books as well, starting with Darwin's Theory of Evolution which has been substantiated by highly credible sources as well. I have met intellectuals who believe that Evolution and the Bible are not in conflict, but you really have to work to understand that. I accept their arguments. When you evaluate both sides, they are really not contradictory in the broad brush strokes. Where one gets into trouble is when they take the Bible literally. Remember when the Bible was written, education was a rarity, so stories were used to explain concepts such as good and evil.

Well nothing really worth responding to but I will take exception to this post. Secular science teachers actually get much more time brainwashing children with their ideological theories then a child spends in church.

Still no one gave a viable explanation to the many questions that were asked.

 

[orogenicman]

your belief in being created is not supported by any actual process or theory...as you've already proven countless times you wouldn't know evidence if it bitch slapped you ..
it has and you didn't.

Daws101, what we have to remember is that all religions try to "get them while they are young." Children are unable to ask the tough questions to rationally evaluate religious philosophy such as creationism. With the help of parents and the church, (who always has their hand out for a buck), they fill the child's head full of slop.

By the time, or if at all, the the child matures and asks the hard, logical questions about the religion, their "faith" glosses over reality. They can not be deprogrammed, they have an answer, (unsubstantiated though it is), for everything. They believe the bull shit too deeply.

Now, don't take me as anti-religion here because there are some really good ideas in the Bible, and other holy books, but there are many other good books as well, starting with Darwin's Theory of Evolution which has been substantiated by highly credible sources as well. I have met intellectuals who believe that Evolution and the Bible are not in conflict, but you really have to work to understand that. I accept their arguments. When you evaluate both sides, they are really not contradictory in the broad brush strokes. Where one gets into trouble is when they take the Bible literally. Remember when the Bible was written, education was a rarity, so stories were used to explain concepts such as good and evil.

Well nothing really worth responding to but I will take exception to this post. Secular science teachers actually get much more time brainwashing children with their ideological theories then a child spends in church.

Still no one gave a viable explanation to the many questions that were asked.

Secular science? Is the only science there is, dufus. Speaking of not answering questions, you never responded to mine:

Does your index finger curve towards your middle finger when you hold your hand up with your fingers straight but together?

 

[Hollie]

your belief in being created is not supported by any actual process or theory...as you've already proven countless times you wouldn't know evidence if it bitch slapped you ..
it has and you didn't.

Daws101, what we have to remember is that all religions try to "get them while they are young." Children are unable to ask the tough questions to rationally evaluate religious philosophy such as creationism. With the help of parents and the church, (who always has their hand out for a buck), they fill the child's head full of slop.

By the time, or if at all, the the child matures and asks the hard, logical questions about the religion, their "faith" glosses over reality. They can not be deprogrammed, they have an answer, (unsubstantiated though it is), for everything. They believe the bull shit too deeply.

Now, don't take me as anti-religion here because there are some really good ideas in the Bible, and other holy books, but there are many other good books as well, starting with Darwin's Theory of Evolution which has been substantiated by highly credible sources as well. I have met intellectuals who believe that Evolution and the Bible are not in conflict, but you really have to work to understand that. I accept their arguments. When you evaluate both sides, they are really not contradictory in the broad brush strokes. Where one gets into trouble is when they take the Bible literally. Remember when the Bible was written, education was a rarity, so stories were used to explain concepts such as good and evil.

Well nothing really worth responding to but I will take exception to this post. Secular science teachers actually get much more time brainwashing children with their ideological theories then a child spends in church.

Still no one gave a viable explanation to the many questions that were asked

Yeah, true. What a shame that schools are wasting time with "secular" science and math.

Think of all the time that could have been spent with bible study, geocentrism and those flat earth proofs.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Daws101, what we have to remember is that all religions try to "get them while they are young." Children are unable to ask the tough questions to rationally evaluate religious philosophy such as creationism. With the help of parents and the church, (who always has their hand out for a buck), they fill the child's head full of slop.

By the time, or if at all, the the child matures and asks the hard, logical questions about the religion, their "faith" glosses over reality. They can not be deprogrammed, they have an answer, (unsubstantiated though it is), for everything. They believe the bull shit too deeply.

Now, don't take me as anti-religion here because there are some really good ideas in the Bible, and other holy books, but there are many other good books as well, starting with Darwin's Theory of Evolution which has been substantiated by highly credible sources as well. I have met intellectuals who believe that Evolution and the Bible are not in conflict, but you really have to work to understand that. I accept their arguments. When you evaluate both sides, they are really not contradictory in the broad brush strokes. Where one gets into trouble is when they take the Bible literally. Remember when the Bible was written, education was a rarity, so stories were used to explain concepts such as good and evil.

Well nothing really worth responding to but I will take exception to this post. Secular science teachers actually get much more time brainwashing children with their ideological theories then a child spends in church.

Still no one gave a viable explanation to the many questions that were asked.

Secular science? Is the only science there is, dufus. Speaking of not answering questions, you never responded to mine:

Does your index finger curve towards your middle finger when you hold your hand up with your fingers straight but together?

No I played football both of my middle fingers curve away from my index finger and my index fingers are straight. Dufus ? there are disciplines of science that are not secular.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Many theories floating around are based on philosophical views. Your sides God is naturalism. Oh and about that comment that I am here because of a single cell forming, and then evolving ,can you explain how this happened ?

 

[orogenicman]

Well nothing really worth responding to but I will take exception to this post. Secular science teachers actually get much more time brainwashing children with their ideological theories then a child spends in church.

Still no one gave a viable explanation to the many questions that were asked.

Secular science? Is the only science there is, dufus. Speaking of not answering questions, you never responded to mine:

Does your index finger curve towards your middle finger when you hold your hand up with your fingers straight but together?

No I played football both of my middle fingers curve away from my index finger and my index fingers are straight. Dufus ? there are disciplines of science that are not secular.

Right. That is a genetic mutation. On average, 1/3 of people in any population, have an index finger that curves towards the middle finger, 1/3 of the people have an index finger that is straight, and 1/3 have an index finger that curves outward.

What playing football has to do with anything is a mystery. (no, no, please don't tell me).

There are no scientific disciplines that aren't secular. Sorry if this bursts your bubble.