Why Is There Controversy Over Confederate Monuments?

[Vandalshandle]

The first monument to be removed in New Orleans is not even a Civil War Monument. It is a monument honoring a White Supremacist movement, which started an armed insurrection against a duly elected city biracial government in 1874. the fact that the city placed this monument on public property in 1932 is disgusting enough. To make matters worse, they had to remove it at night wearing bullet proof vests. This is the most blatant racism I have ever come across that was sponsored by a municipality in the USA.

Battle of Liberty Place - Wikipedia

They didn't have to wear Kevlar.... nobody showed up or even cared. The monument was retarded and had been moved in the past back behind the parking lot of One Canal Place. I guarantee you 99% of NOLA didn't even know it existed.

There were, in fact, death threats to city officials over removing the monuments. And, whether or not someone knew it exists has no bearing on whether or not it should have been removed, I knew it exists, and New Orleans was not even the city where I was born and raised.

Well I did as well, but I had no idea what it was. I walked by it dozens of times walking from One Canal Place to the House of Blues. It just looked like an old run-down monument. As for death threats, funny, it didn't make the news, or at least I didn't catch it.

Personally, I'd like to Mitch Landrieu expend his efforts on crime and the thousands of homeless.... they're on virtually every street corner and harassing the fuck out of the locals and worse, the tourists.

It is going to be very difficult for Mitch to effectively fight crime in New Orleans, because the N.O. cops are some of the most corrupt in the country. Part of that is due to the fact that they can not afford to pay them enough for them to make a decent living. When I lived in Kenner, in 2009, I paid a Kenner cop to mow my lawn. He did that all over the neighborhood, because Kenner only paid him about $38,000 per year. Even now N.O. cops only start at $44,000.

Police Patrol Officer Salaries in New Orleans, LA by education, experience, Location and more - Salary.com

 

[postman]

Progressives want to overlook their past sins/even forget them, the fact remains it was not just about slavery although that was the cause that took up the headlines. To say taxes and states rights had nothing to do with the Civil War is selective at best. Also at the same time Indian tribes all over the Americas had countless slaves... my ancestors had centuries of slave ownership to call their own… The Sioux Indian tribes. Fact

Nobody said it was ONLY about slavery. It was about preserving the union as the number one reason. But in the process of doing that, the slavery question had to be addressed.

 

[Rustic]

Article 1, Section 9. The great debate between Calhoun and Webster. The Compromise of 1850. Bleeding Kansas. Dred Scott. The caning of Charles Sumner. Harpers Ferry.

Any of this shit ring a bell?

The fact remains, there was a lot more to the Civil War than just slavery. To think otherwise is delusional

Nope. It was about nothing more than slavery. To say otherwise is to be completely and willfully ignorant of our nation's history.

The racist Democrats' () reason for leaving the Union was over slavery. They said so themselves!

Any other complaints did not rise to the level of secession. Only slavery did.

So it had nothing to do with taxes and states rights...

Exactly. "States rights" was the smokescreen for slavery. Just like "states rights" were the smokescreen for Jim Crow laws.

Did you read the declarations of secession? Of course you didn't.

Out of all those declarations, taxes are mentioned once. And guess what it is about:

The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

Your laughter emoticon is the laughter of a willfully stupid creduloid.

So keep going, you ignorant fool. This is fun.

Not every southerner had slaves in fact most really did not, they could not afford them. But only a fool would think that a southerner could not separate slavery from states rights.
Like i said the most honorable best leader involved in the Civil War by a long shot was General Lee…
The portrayal of the Civil War being all about slavery and only about slavery makes for good movies but that's about it. Reality shows otherwise

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The first monument to be removed in New Orleans is not even a Civil War Monument. It is a monument honoring a White Supremacist movement, which started an armed insurrection against a duly elected city biracial government in 1874. the fact that the city placed this monument on public property in 1932 is disgusting enough. To make matters worse, they had to remove it at night wearing bullet proof vests. This is the most blatant racism I have ever come across that was sponsored by a municipality in the USA.

Battle of Liberty Place - Wikipedia

They didn't have to wear Kevlar.... nobody showed up or even cared. The monument was retarded and had been moved in the past back behind the parking lot of One Canal Place. I guarantee you 99% of NOLA didn't even know it existed.

There were, in fact, death threats to city officials over removing the monuments. And, whether or not someone knew it exists has no bearing on whether or not it should have been removed, I knew it exists, and New Orleans was not even the city where I was born and raised.

Well I did as well, but I had no idea what it was. I walked by it dozens of times walking from One Canal Place to the House of Blues. It just looked like an old run-down monument. As for death threats, funny, it didn't make the news, or at least I didn't catch it.

Personally, I'd like to Mitch Landrieu expend his efforts on crime and the thousands of homeless.... they're on virtually every street corner and harassing the fuck out of the locals and worse, the tourists.

It is going to be very difficult for Mitch to effectively fight crime in New Orleans, because the N.O. cops are some of the most corrupt in the country. Part of that is due to the fact that they can not afford to pay them enough for them to make a decent living. When I lived in Kenner, in 2009, I paid a Kenner cop to mow my lawn. He did that all over the neighborhood, because Kenner only paid him about $38,000 per year. Even now N.O. cops only start at $44,000.

Police Patrol Officer Salaries in New Orleans, LA by education, experience, Location and more - Salary.com

Well aware.. one of my best friends is NOPD and another NOFD... they even have it worse. They can't even exist without detail work. You lived in Kenner? You poor thing... I hate Kenner. Kenner cops will pull you over for anything. They tried a year or so ago to up property taxes and it got voted down and they started pulling people over for anything and everything... it even made the news!!

 

[postman]

And just to think that slavery was the institution that was only put on by the south is the stupidity of selective history.
My ancestors had Centuries of owning slaves under their belts... The Sioux Indian tribes

America also went to war with the Indians.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The South wasn't fooling anyone but themselves and their citizens about "state's rights". England, being economically hurt, due to the union blockade of their cotton supply in the South, considered coming into the war on the side of the South. Lincoln, knowing that, issued the Emancipation Proclamation, making it crystal clear to the simplest moron that the war was about slavery. Britain, which had already outlawed all trafficking in slaves, backed off out of embarrassment, and finally solved their problem by switching to Egyptian cotton for their mills, thus dooming the South to another 100 years of economic ruin.

 

[postman]

Not every southerner had slaves in fact most really did not, they could not afford them. But only a fool would think that a southerner could not separate slavery from states rights.

Actually that was a lot like the 'death tax' which taxed estates of $3.5 million or more. Repeal of it was from people living in trailer parks, who would never be subject to it unless they won the lottery. Yet like the southeners who couldn't afford slaves, the rich convinced them to fight the fight to make the rich, even richer.

 

[Ame®icano]

What will Lee circle be without Lee's statue? A roundabout with grass and a mound in the middle of it.

Who exactly is offended by these historical monuments that have stood for hundreds of years? Who and why? And why all of a sudden did they become offensive?

I am offended that every city in the country has to have a MLK boulevard. I am offended that Cape Canaveral was renamed Cape Kennedy and that Washington national airport was renamed Reagan airport.

WTF are we trying to accomplish with this foolishness?

It's just democrats trying to erase their association with all bad things they did throughout the history...

 

[Rustic]

Progressives want to overlook their past sins/even forget them, the fact remains it was not just about slavery although that was the cause that took up the headlines. To say taxes and states rights had nothing to do with the Civil War is selective at best. Also at the same time Indian tribes all over the Americas had countless slaves... my ancestors had centuries of slave ownership to call their own… The Sioux Indian tribes. Fact

Nobody said it was ONLY about slavery. It was about preserving the union as the number one reason. But in the process of doing that, the slavery question had to be addressed.

Yes, but the way they did it was all wrong, the suspending habeas corpus was absolutely unnecessary... The act showed who the real Lincoln was.. a delusional control freak.
Like I said the most honorable leader involved in the Civil War was Robert E Lee no one was even close…

 

[BlindBoo]

My issue is with public monuments by the US gov't for people who fought against the US gov't.

The US Government put up these statues? Or was it the State government?

Didn't most people see themselves as citizens of their respective State, then a US Citizen?

 

[rightwinger]

Emancipation was a major political blow to the south. Not because they were losing their slaves but because they were unable to get Europe to support their cause if it was about slavery
European countries were not going to fight in defense of slavery

Emancipation proclamation was only the first step in the process. 13th amendment freed all slaves forever and by 1870 they had the right to vote

Coincidence?

Nice glossy PC coating over history. So why didn't Lincoln emancipate all of the slaves on January 1st, 1863? If the war was about slavery, then why weren't all the slaves freed until well after the war was over?

The war, caused by secession in order to ensure Southern slavery, became a struggle to keep states in the Union. And, eventually, slavery became the weapon Lincoln used against the South. He killed the reason for them to secede. He took step by step. He succeeded, and it would have been better for the southern states to not have seceded (heh).

The south overplayed their hand and lost bigly

Lincoln was not going to abolish slavery. He was probably going to be an obscure, one term President. He may have passed some legislation limiting the expansion of slavery, but couldn't have abolished it

By seceding and provoking a war, the South ended up losing their slaves within five years....it would have taken 20-30 years otherwise

The election of Lincoln set off a panic throughout the south.....Lincoln is going to take our slaves away, we had better secede to ensure we can keep them forever

Slavery was going to eventually end even in a Confederate America. What they did was accelerate the process and kill 600,000 Americans. The men who caused that should not be honored

You're ignorance of history is staggering. Neither Lee or Beauregard caused the civil war. Geeze Louise. The liberty monument I have no problem removing, Shit, it was nestled back behind the parking lot of an office tower. Nobody even knew where it was. Anyway, it commemorated something absurd. The Lee and Beauregard statues are iconic NOLA. This is fucking retarded.

Beauregard started the war at Ft Sumter...Traitor

 

[postman]

The act showed who the real Lincoln was.. a delusional control freak.

Abraham Lincoln was the first republican to point out that he won, and elections have consequences.

 

[Rustic]

Not every southerner had slaves in fact most really did not, they could not afford them. But only a fool would think that a southerner could not separate slavery from states rights.

Actually that was a lot like the 'death tax' which taxed estates of $3.5 million or more. Repeal of it was from people living in trailer parks, who would never be subject to it unless they won the lottery. Yet like the southeners who couldn't afford slaves, the rich convinced them to fight the fight to make the rich, even richer.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus what did that prove? Basically he was a delusional control freak… He would do anything to force his government on people that did not agree with him.

 

[Rustic]

The act showed who the real Lincoln was.. a delusional control freak.

Abraham Lincoln was the first republican to point out that he won, and elections have consequences.

Yes he did, and they do have consequences and he has the deaths of the Civil War as proof.

 

[rightwinger]

I wonder why the pseudocons are working so hard to defend the confederates. They start topics about the confederates being racist Democrats every month!

They will do it in the same thread......
Defend the Confederacy and then blame the Democrats for being Confederates

 

[The Original Tree]

Not every southerner had slaves in fact most really did not, they could not afford them. But only a fool would think that a southerner could not separate slavery from states rights.

Actually that was a lot like the 'death tax' which taxed estates of $3.5 million or more. Repeal of it was from people living in trailer parks, who would never be subject to it unless they won the lottery. Yet like the southeners who couldn't afford slaves, the rich convinced them to fight the fight to make the rich, even richer.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus what did that prove? Basically he was a delusional control freak… He would do anything to force his government on people that did not agree with him.

Habeas Corpus is suspended in all wars Moron!

This is why you can shoot a slave owning Democrat Johnny Reb on site and not be put on trial for it.

 

[postman]

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus what did that prove? Basically he was a delusional control freak… He would do anything to force his government on people that did not agree with him.

Lincoln also imposed an income tax. The tax was unconstitutional, suspending habeas corpus in time of war was not.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Progressives want to overlook their past sins/even forget them, the fact remains it was not just about slavery although that was the cause that took up the headlines. To say taxes and states rights had nothing to do with the Civil War is selective at best. Also at the same time Indian tribes all over the Americas had countless slaves... my ancestors had centuries of slave ownership to call their own… The Sioux Indian tribes. Fact

Nobody said it was ONLY about slavery. It was about preserving the union as the number one reason. But in the process of doing that, the slavery question had to be addressed.

Yes, but the way they did it was all wrong, the suspending habeas corpus was absolutely unnecessary... The act showed who the real Lincoln was.. a delusional control freak.
Like I said the most honorable leader involved in the Civil War was Robert E Lee no one was even close…

You should stick to Sioux history, Rustic. Lincoln (illegally) suspended habeas corpus for a very good reason. He threw the Maryland legislature in jail before they could vote to succeed, which would have left Washington D.C. in the middle of the Confederacy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What will Lee circle be without Lee's statue? A roundabout with grass and a mound in the middle of it.

Who exactly is offended by these historical monuments that have stood for hundreds of years? Who and why? And why all of a sudden did they become offensive?

I am offended that every city in the country has to have a MLK boulevard. I am offended that Cape Canaveral was renamed Cape Kennedy and that Washington national airport was renamed Reagan airport.

WTF are we trying to accomplish with this foolishness?

It's just democrats trying to erase their association with all bad things they did throughout the history...

May be too late....


I listen to WBLS...'Black Liberation Station..107.5' in NYC, and it was surprising to heard the discussion shows this weekend, several callers saying 'what have the Democrats done for us???'


Changes...blowin' in the wind....

 

[rightwinger]

Emancipation was a major political blow to the south. Not because they were losing their slaves but because they were unable to get Europe to support their cause if it was about slavery
European countries were not going to fight in defense of slavery

Emancipation proclamation was only the first step in the process. 13th amendment freed all slaves forever and by 1870 they had the right to vote

Coincidence?

Nice glossy PC coating over history. So why didn't Lincoln emancipate all of the slaves on January 1st, 1863? If the war was about slavery, then why weren't all the slaves freed until well after the war was over?

The war, caused by secession in order to ensure Southern slavery, became a struggle to keep states in the Union. And, eventually, slavery became the weapon Lincoln used against the South. He killed the reason for them to secede. He took step by step. He succeeded, and it would have been better for the southern states to not have seceded (heh).

The south overplayed their hand and lost bigly

Lincoln was not going to abolish slavery. He was probably going to be an obscure, one term President. He may have passed some legislation limiting the expansion of slavery, but couldn't have abolished it

By seceding and provoking a war, the South ended up losing their slaves within five years....it would have taken 20-30 years otherwise

The election of Lincoln set off a panic throughout the south.....Lincoln is going to take our slaves away, we had better secede to ensure we can keep them forever

Slavery was going to eventually end even in a Confederate America. What they did was accelerate the process and kill 600,000 Americans. The men who caused that should not be honored

The best and the most honorable leader in the Civil War was General Lee... fact
Saying the Civil War was "ALL'' And/or "just" about slavery is just basically progressive politically correct elementary history…

Any way you define it....the war was about slavery
The Confederacy was formed to preserve the institution of slavery forever

Lee had a choice to make....Stand for human dignity or stand for his state
He chose wrong