Why Must We Abandon Our Religious Beliefs to Operate A Business?

[Skull Pilot]

YEs we did have sex last night.

Didn't ask, don't care, resent having the info forced on me.

And you must think it's just fine for an employer to fire you because of your religion because you think it's OK to use religion as an excuse for such behaviors.

There's a difference between "think it's okay" and "think he should have the right." It's HIS business. I have zero desire to work for someone who doesn't want me around, and is just going to make me miserable. Also, if he's harboring such shitty beliefs and notions, it's gonna show up one way or the other, which means his business probably isn't going to last very long. I'd rather escape before it gets to that point.

And FYI you never did answer that question. You gave me some bullshit story about an interview.

FYI, I answered you twice, once directly and once by example. Your inability to hear anything but what you want is not my problem.

Then you said a paycheck is different from a cake but you never answered the question.

Someone's livelihood IS different from baking a cake. And your tunnel vision still isn't my problem. Figure it the fuck out, because I'm not in the mood to break out the crayons and draw pictures.

But I have a feeling you'd be taking your employer to court if he fired you because of his religious beliefs wouldn't you?

Fucking hypocrite

I'm a hypocrite because of what YOU ASSUME I would do? I don't think so. I think YOU are a hypocrite, and just project that onto everyone else in the erroneous assumption that you are somehow normal and representative of something.

You say it's different but it isn't.

If a cake baker can refuse client because god told him to why can't your boss fire you because god told him to? Does your employer have to give up his first amendment rights just so you can have a job?

You want to hold employers to different standards than bakers therefore you my dear are a fucking hypocrite

Bosses/businesses pretty much fire whomever they choose. They simply need an excuse and no union.

Sorry. Corky, but it is against the law to fire anyone because of their religion, sex etc.

So they use some other reason ---- like, the position/department has been eliminated.

Maybe maybe not.

But if one is not fired for cause then the employer's costs for both State and Federal Unemployment taxes rise.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No one's "avoiding" your question. We're giving it exactly the respect and attention it deserves, which is none, because YOU AREN'T ENTITLED TO HAVE IT ANSWERED.

THEN STOP FUCKING RESPONDING TO MY FUCKING POSTS YOU FUCKING TWAT

More left-think. "Say what I want to hear, or stop talking so that my opinion is the only one heard."

Sorry, Sparky. The answer to your question remains "You have no right to ask", and I will keep saying it.

I have every right to ask as per my first amendment rights.

And I will keep asking until one of you bigots gives a cogent answer

You have a Constitutional right to say the words. What you don't have is a moral right to think you should know.

And I will keep telling you to mind your own business until you stop being such a nosy, judgmental ass napkin.

I never said anything about moral rights and IDGAF if people dodge questions about their behavior because people who dodge those questions are usually doing so because they really can't defend their position in any intelligent manner.

Your dodging of questions tells me all I need to know about you

That would be the problem. You're incapable of differentiating between "I have a right to be an asshole" and "I should exercise my right to be an asshole." Which is why it's so necessary to respond to your questions, over and over, with an reminder that IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

The world is not the Oprah effing Winfrey Show, and just because you're happy to spew the details of your private life to all and sundry doesn't mean everyone else is so inclined, or in any way obligated to do so.

Learn the difference between "dodging the question" and answering honestly with "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS". Whether or not you believe it, that IS a valid answer. Also, learn the difference between "can't defend my position" and denying that you have a right to a defense.

 

[danielpalos]

were I a professional party person, I would refuse to do the KINK party.
I, STRONGLY, believe that a professional party person should have
NO OBLIGATION to serve a kink party if doing so rattles him

what if it were socially acceptable?

remember the "official" definition of pornography-----
"YA KNOW IT IF YA SEE IT"

pornography is legal.

Is that true of child pornography? My guess is that there is still discrimination against such individuals. I imagine this will soon change.

we already have laws regarding the "use of child labor".

 

[Skull Pilot]

THEN STOP FUCKING RESPONDING TO MY FUCKING POSTS YOU FUCKING TWAT

More left-think. "Say what I want to hear, or stop talking so that my opinion is the only one heard."

Sorry, Sparky. The answer to your question remains "You have no right to ask", and I will keep saying it.

I have every right to ask as per my first amendment rights.

And I will keep asking until one of you bigots gives a cogent answer

You have a Constitutional right to say the words. What you don't have is a moral right to think you should know.

And I will keep telling you to mind your own business until you stop being such a nosy, judgmental ass napkin.

I never said anything about moral rights and IDGAF if people dodge questions about their behavior because people who dodge those questions are usually doing so because they really can't defend their position in any intelligent manner.

Your dodging of questions tells me all I need to know about you

That would be the problem. You're incapable of differentiating between "I have a right to be an asshole" and "I should exercise my right to be an asshole." Which is why it's so necessary to respond to your questions, over and over, with an reminder that IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

The world is not the Oprah effing Winfrey Show, and just because you're happy to spew the details of your private life to all and sundry doesn't mean everyone else is so inclined, or in any way obligated to do so.

Learn the difference between "dodging the question" and answering honestly with "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS". Whether or not you believe it, that IS a valid answer. Also, learn the difference between "can't defend my position" and denying that you have a right to a defense.

Like I said those who don't answer can't answer intelligently.

This is a fucking anonymous board I don't know who you are and don't care to find out yet you dodge questions like the fucking plague.

And you have still to tell me why you have a double standard for employers, hypocrite

 

[Cecilie1200]

You certainly do spend a lot of time demanding things from people just as if you have a right to them. You must be frustrated a good deal.

And you refuse to answer a simple question

If I decide having a twat like you work for me is a sin then can I fire you for that reason alone?

"Simple" is not the operative point. "Inappropriate" is. You're damned right I'm not going to answer a question, however "simple", about things that are none of your fucking business. "Did you and your spouse have sex last night?" is also a simple question, but that doesn't make you entitled to an answer.

Furthermore, shitforbrains, if you would stop doing victory dances over "I have the perfect Gotcha! question!", you would notice that I answered it the FIRST time you asked it, and every time you've asked since then has been superfluous.

And no, I will not repeat my answer.

YEs we did have sex last night.

Didn't ask, don't care, resent having the info forced on me.

And you must think it's just fine for an employer to fire you because of your religion because you think it's OK to use religion as an excuse for such behaviors.

There's a difference between "think it's okay" and "think he should have the right." It's HIS business. I have zero desire to work for someone who doesn't want me around, and is just going to make me miserable. Also, if he's harboring such shitty beliefs and notions, it's gonna show up one way or the other, which means his business probably isn't going to last very long. I'd rather escape before it gets to that point.

And FYI you never did answer that question. You gave me some bullshit story about an interview.

FYI, I answered you twice, once directly and once by example. Your inability to hear anything but what you want is not my problem.

Then you said a paycheck is different from a cake but you never answered the question.

Someone's livelihood IS different from baking a cake. And your tunnel vision still isn't my problem. Figure it the fuck out, because I'm not in the mood to break out the crayons and draw pictures.

But I have a feeling you'd be taking your employer to court if he fired you because of his religious beliefs wouldn't you?

Fucking hypocrite

I'm a hypocrite because of what YOU ASSUME I would do? I don't think so. I think YOU are a hypocrite, and just project that onto everyone else in the erroneous assumption that you are somehow normal and representative of something.

You say it's different but it isn't.

If a cake baker can refuse client because god told him to why can't your boss fire you because god told him to? Does your employer have to give up his first amendment rights just so you can have a job?

You want to hold employers to different standards than bakers therefore you my dear are a fucking hypocrite

Yeah, there actually IS a difference. If I am already employed by someone, I have a contractual agreement with them. I have a certain amount of proprietary interest in their fulfillment of their end of the contract. That's very different from someone declining to enter into the contract in the first place. If the baker had taken the order for the cake, and THEN found out it was for a gay wedding and said he wouldn't do it, I would consider it a very different situation legally.

That being said, if my employer suddenly converted to fundamental Islam (which would be pretty weird, since my employer is actually a Jewish man living in Israel), and decided that it was sinful for women to work, my happy ass would be out the door. I would expect him to provide severance pay, since I wasn't let go for cause, and it's part of the employment contract. But it would be an utter waste of my time, money, and effort to pitch any sort of legal hissy fit over it. For one thing, he'd be out of business in about two minutes with that sort of worldview, since the vast majority of people who work in the legal transcription field are female, AND most of the clients are government or quasi-government entities, and they won't contract with a company like that. It's the very definition of a "self-correcting problem".

And once again, dipshit, there's a difference between what standard I hold people to and what standard YOU ASSUME I hold them to. I'm not a hypocrite because of what you imagine is true, because I'm not responsible for opinions you project onto me.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And you refuse to answer a simple question

If I decide having a twat like you work for me is a sin then can I fire you for that reason alone?

"Simple" is not the operative point. "Inappropriate" is. You're damned right I'm not going to answer a question, however "simple", about things that are none of your fucking business. "Did you and your spouse have sex last night?" is also a simple question, but that doesn't make you entitled to an answer.

Furthermore, shitforbrains, if you would stop doing victory dances over "I have the perfect Gotcha! question!", you would notice that I answered it the FIRST time you asked it, and every time you've asked since then has been superfluous.

And no, I will not repeat my answer.

YEs we did have sex last night.

Didn't ask, don't care, resent having the info forced on me.

And you must think it's just fine for an employer to fire you because of your religion because you think it's OK to use religion as an excuse for such behaviors.

There's a difference between "think it's okay" and "think he should have the right." It's HIS business. I have zero desire to work for someone who doesn't want me around, and is just going to make me miserable. Also, if he's harboring such shitty beliefs and notions, it's gonna show up one way or the other, which means his business probably isn't going to last very long. I'd rather escape before it gets to that point.

And FYI you never did answer that question. You gave me some bullshit story about an interview.

FYI, I answered you twice, once directly and once by example. Your inability to hear anything but what you want is not my problem.

Then you said a paycheck is different from a cake but you never answered the question.

Someone's livelihood IS different from baking a cake. And your tunnel vision still isn't my problem. Figure it the fuck out, because I'm not in the mood to break out the crayons and draw pictures.

But I have a feeling you'd be taking your employer to court if he fired you because of his religious beliefs wouldn't you?

Fucking hypocrite

I'm a hypocrite because of what YOU ASSUME I would do? I don't think so. I think YOU are a hypocrite, and just project that onto everyone else in the erroneous assumption that you are somehow normal and representative of something.

You say it's different but it isn't.

If a cake baker can refuse client because god told him to why can't your boss fire you because god told him to? Does your employer have to give up his first amendment rights just so you can have a job?

You want to hold employers to different standards than bakers therefore you my dear are a fucking hypocrite

Yeah, there actually IS a difference. If I am already employed by someone, I have a contractual agreement with them. I have a certain amount of proprietary interest in their fulfillment of their end of the contract. That's very different from someone declining to enter into the contract in the first place. If the baker had taken the order for the cake, and THEN found out it was for a gay wedding and said he wouldn't do it, I would consider it a very different situation legally.

That being said, if my employer suddenly converted to fundamental Islam (which would be pretty weird, since my employer is actually a Jewish man living in Israel), and decided that it was sinful for women to work, my happy ass would be out the door. I would expect him to provide severance pay, since I wasn't let go for cause, and it's part of the employment contract. But it would be an utter waste of my time, money, and effort to pitch any sort of legal hissy fit over it. For one thing, he'd be out of business in about two minutes with that sort of worldview, since the vast majority of people who work in the legal transcription field are female, AND most of the clients are government or quasi-government entities, and they won't contract with a company like that. It's the very definition of a "self-correcting problem".

And once again, dipshit, there's a difference between what standard I hold people to and what standard YOU ASSUME I hold them to. I'm not a hypocrite because of what you imagine is true, because I'm not responsible for opinions you project onto me.

Good for you.

So you won't be upset at all if your good friend the baker loses most of his business because he is a bigot.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Didn't ask, don't care, resent having the info forced on me.

There's a difference between "think it's okay" and "think he should have the right." It's HIS business. I have zero desire to work for someone who doesn't want me around, and is just going to make me miserable. Also, if he's harboring such shitty beliefs and notions, it's gonna show up one way or the other, which means his business probably isn't going to last very long. I'd rather escape before it gets to that point.

FYI, I answered you twice, once directly and once by example. Your inability to hear anything but what you want is not my problem.

Someone's livelihood IS different from baking a cake. And your tunnel vision still isn't my problem. Figure it the fuck out, because I'm not in the mood to break out the crayons and draw pictures.

I'm a hypocrite because of what YOU ASSUME I would do? I don't think so. I think YOU are a hypocrite, and just project that onto everyone else in the erroneous assumption that you are somehow normal and representative of something.

You say it's different but it isn't.

If a cake baker can refuse client because god told him to why can't your boss fire you because god told him to? Does your employer have to give up his first amendment rights just so you can have a job?

You want to hold employers to different standards than bakers therefore you my dear are a fucking hypocrite

Bosses/businesses pretty much fire whomever they choose. They simply need an excuse and no union.

Sorry. Corky, but it is against the law to fire anyone because of their religion, sex etc.

So they use some other reason ---- like, the position/department has been eliminated.

Maybe maybe not.

But if one is not fired for cause then the employer's costs for both State and Federal Unemployment taxes rise.

Not my problem. My employer understood what was involved in the employment contract before he entered into it, so if he chooses to discontinue the contract for reasons of his own, he gets to bear the cost of that choice.

 

[Taz]

Look, left-thinkers just LOVE trying to create analogies and draw parallels, usually to something unrelated and/or extreme to the point of ludicrous, so let's try an analogy to something that's actually relevant AND existing in the real world right now.

Let's say Phillip Morris, the biggest cigarette manufacturer out there, goes to an advertising agency and says, "I think your ads are really amazing. I want you to put together an ad campaign for us." And the advertising agency responds, "No thank you, we are not interested in associating our company with tobacco products, because we believe they are a harmful and destructive product."

Is it moral, and should it be legal, for that ad agency to discriminate between prospective clients and to refuse their creative services to a prospective client based solely on disapproval of what that client does?

How about if an artist advertises that he paints portraits on commission, and someone wants his portrait painted in the nude? Does the artist have the right to turn that commission down if he doesn't like painting nudes, or does the nudist have a right to the artist's services because the artist is somehow now a "public accommodation" simply because he markets his talent?

Okay, let's try something a little closer to home. As Jillian likes to mention every time she addresses me (because it irks her to no end when conservatives refuse to stay in her pigeonholes for them AND refuse to get onto the leftist plantation), I used to run a party and event planning company. One of the clients I was hired by was the local BDSM club, who wanted me to plan their annual fetish ball. I took the job, because it doesn't particularly bother me, but what if it did? What if I'm genuinely uncomfortable around kink and people engaging in it? Do I have the right to refuse that contract, or am I obligated to plan an event I'm uncomfortable with, simply because I advertise my services to the general public?

At what point does this obsession with "public accommodation" go too far and essentially become forcing anyone who wants to make a living from their talents and skills to be a whore?

Depends if these people call themselves Christians, because Jesus wouldn't turn anyone away for any reason. Do you call yourself a Christian? Because you're not one of them.

Yada yada. Remind me again what your qualifications are for declaring what Christianity is and isn't? It's not knowledge, wisdom, or experience, because you just committed a fairly egregious sin in that post, and I'll bet money you have no idea what it even is.

Exposing you as a fake Christian?

Exposing me as not being what YOU think a Christian is, and I would have told you with no difficulty that I'm not, and have no desire to be.

Now if we could just get you to understand and admit that YOU are the arbiter and standard of nothing whatsoever.

I'm the arbiter of you not being a very nice person. But you knew that already, didn't you?

 

[Skull Pilot]

You say it's different but it isn't.

If a cake baker can refuse client because god told him to why can't your boss fire you because god told him to? Does your employer have to give up his first amendment rights just so you can have a job?

You want to hold employers to different standards than bakers therefore you my dear are a fucking hypocrite

Bosses/businesses pretty much fire whomever they choose. They simply need an excuse and no union.

Sorry. Corky, but it is against the law to fire anyone because of their religion, sex etc.

So they use some other reason ---- like, the position/department has been eliminated.

Maybe maybe not.

But if one is not fired for cause then the employer's costs for both State and Federal Unemployment taxes rise.

Not my problem. My employer understood what was involved in the employment contract before he entered into it, so if he chooses to discontinue the contract for reasons of his own, he gets to bear the cost of that choice.

OK so what if you didn't have a contract but were employed at will like most people?

Then it would be OK for the business owner to fire all the women because his new religion says it's a sin for women to work right?

 

[Cecilie1200]

More left-think. "Say what I want to hear, or stop talking so that my opinion is the only one heard."

Sorry, Sparky. The answer to your question remains "You have no right to ask", and I will keep saying it.

I have every right to ask as per my first amendment rights.

And I will keep asking until one of you bigots gives a cogent answer

You have a Constitutional right to say the words. What you don't have is a moral right to think you should know.

And I will keep telling you to mind your own business until you stop being such a nosy, judgmental ass napkin.

I never said anything about moral rights and IDGAF if people dodge questions about their behavior because people who dodge those questions are usually doing so because they really can't defend their position in any intelligent manner.

Your dodging of questions tells me all I need to know about you

That would be the problem. You're incapable of differentiating between "I have a right to be an asshole" and "I should exercise my right to be an asshole." Which is why it's so necessary to respond to your questions, over and over, with an reminder that IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

The world is not the Oprah effing Winfrey Show, and just because you're happy to spew the details of your private life to all and sundry doesn't mean everyone else is so inclined, or in any way obligated to do so.

Learn the difference between "dodging the question" and answering honestly with "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS". Whether or not you believe it, that IS a valid answer. Also, learn the difference between "can't defend my position" and denying that you have a right to a defense.

Like I said those who don't answer can't answer intelligently.

This is a fucking anonymous board I don't know who you are and don't care to find out yet you dodge questions like the fucking plague.

And you have still to tell me why you have a double standard for employers, hypocrite

Like I said (although perhaps not this explicitly), this isn't the Inquisition, and you aren't Torquemada. NONE OF YOUR DAMNED BUSINESS is the ONLY intelligent answer to inappropriately nosy and personal demands for information.

I don't care how anonymous the board is. It's still NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. I'm not trying to evangelize or convert you to anything, and explaining my position only invites you to argue it and offer your opinions on it. I not only am not interested in your opinions on my religion, my ENTIRE POINT is that religion is personal and people have the right to practice it without having to take your opinions into account.

It isn't that I can't explain and defend my beliefs, if I choose to. It's that the whole point of my argument is that it's MY CHOICE. Not yours.

And I will tell you for the third time that I don't have a double standard for employers, dumbass. Your fevered imaginings of what you're "sure" I would do don't constitute MY standard on anything, and if I'm not obligated to defend my beliefs to you, I'm sure as HELL not obligated to defend YOUR ASSUMPTION of my beliefs.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"Simple" is not the operative point. "Inappropriate" is. You're damned right I'm not going to answer a question, however "simple", about things that are none of your fucking business. "Did you and your spouse have sex last night?" is also a simple question, but that doesn't make you entitled to an answer.

Furthermore, shitforbrains, if you would stop doing victory dances over "I have the perfect Gotcha! question!", you would notice that I answered it the FIRST time you asked it, and every time you've asked since then has been superfluous.

And no, I will not repeat my answer.

YEs we did have sex last night.

Didn't ask, don't care, resent having the info forced on me.

And you must think it's just fine for an employer to fire you because of your religion because you think it's OK to use religion as an excuse for such behaviors.

There's a difference between "think it's okay" and "think he should have the right." It's HIS business. I have zero desire to work for someone who doesn't want me around, and is just going to make me miserable. Also, if he's harboring such shitty beliefs and notions, it's gonna show up one way or the other, which means his business probably isn't going to last very long. I'd rather escape before it gets to that point.

And FYI you never did answer that question. You gave me some bullshit story about an interview.

FYI, I answered you twice, once directly and once by example. Your inability to hear anything but what you want is not my problem.

Then you said a paycheck is different from a cake but you never answered the question.

Someone's livelihood IS different from baking a cake. And your tunnel vision still isn't my problem. Figure it the fuck out, because I'm not in the mood to break out the crayons and draw pictures.

But I have a feeling you'd be taking your employer to court if he fired you because of his religious beliefs wouldn't you?

Fucking hypocrite

I'm a hypocrite because of what YOU ASSUME I would do? I don't think so. I think YOU are a hypocrite, and just project that onto everyone else in the erroneous assumption that you are somehow normal and representative of something.

You say it's different but it isn't.

If a cake baker can refuse client because god told him to why can't your boss fire you because god told him to? Does your employer have to give up his first amendment rights just so you can have a job?

You want to hold employers to different standards than bakers therefore you my dear are a fucking hypocrite

Yeah, there actually IS a difference. If I am already employed by someone, I have a contractual agreement with them. I have a certain amount of proprietary interest in their fulfillment of their end of the contract. That's very different from someone declining to enter into the contract in the first place. If the baker had taken the order for the cake, and THEN found out it was for a gay wedding and said he wouldn't do it, I would consider it a very different situation legally.

That being said, if my employer suddenly converted to fundamental Islam (which would be pretty weird, since my employer is actually a Jewish man living in Israel), and decided that it was sinful for women to work, my happy ass would be out the door. I would expect him to provide severance pay, since I wasn't let go for cause, and it's part of the employment contract. But it would be an utter waste of my time, money, and effort to pitch any sort of legal hissy fit over it. For one thing, he'd be out of business in about two minutes with that sort of worldview, since the vast majority of people who work in the legal transcription field are female, AND most of the clients are government or quasi-government entities, and they won't contract with a company like that. It's the very definition of a "self-correcting problem".

And once again, dipshit, there's a difference between what standard I hold people to and what standard YOU ASSUME I hold them to. I'm not a hypocrite because of what you imagine is true, because I'm not responsible for opinions you project onto me.

Good for you.

So you won't be upset at all if your good friend the baker loses most of his business because he is a bigot.

Depends on whether he loses it because people in his community decide not to do business with him, or he loses it because nosy ass kittens like you try to use the government to tell him what he can and can't believe.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Look, left-thinkers just LOVE trying to create analogies and draw parallels, usually to something unrelated and/or extreme to the point of ludicrous, so let's try an analogy to something that's actually relevant AND existing in the real world right now.

Let's say Phillip Morris, the biggest cigarette manufacturer out there, goes to an advertising agency and says, "I think your ads are really amazing. I want you to put together an ad campaign for us." And the advertising agency responds, "No thank you, we are not interested in associating our company with tobacco products, because we believe they are a harmful and destructive product."

Is it moral, and should it be legal, for that ad agency to discriminate between prospective clients and to refuse their creative services to a prospective client based solely on disapproval of what that client does?

How about if an artist advertises that he paints portraits on commission, and someone wants his portrait painted in the nude? Does the artist have the right to turn that commission down if he doesn't like painting nudes, or does the nudist have a right to the artist's services because the artist is somehow now a "public accommodation" simply because he markets his talent?

Okay, let's try something a little closer to home. As Jillian likes to mention every time she addresses me (because it irks her to no end when conservatives refuse to stay in her pigeonholes for them AND refuse to get onto the leftist plantation), I used to run a party and event planning company. One of the clients I was hired by was the local BDSM club, who wanted me to plan their annual fetish ball. I took the job, because it doesn't particularly bother me, but what if it did? What if I'm genuinely uncomfortable around kink and people engaging in it? Do I have the right to refuse that contract, or am I obligated to plan an event I'm uncomfortable with, simply because I advertise my services to the general public?

At what point does this obsession with "public accommodation" go too far and essentially become forcing anyone who wants to make a living from their talents and skills to be a whore?

Depends if these people call themselves Christians, because Jesus wouldn't turn anyone away for any reason. Do you call yourself a Christian? Because you're not one of them.

Yada yada. Remind me again what your qualifications are for declaring what Christianity is and isn't? It's not knowledge, wisdom, or experience, because you just committed a fairly egregious sin in that post, and I'll bet money you have no idea what it even is.

Exposing you as a fake Christian?

Exposing me as not being what YOU think a Christian is, and I would have told you with no difficulty that I'm not, and have no desire to be.

Now if we could just get you to understand and admit that YOU are the arbiter and standard of nothing whatsoever.

I'm the arbiter of you not being a very nice person. But you knew that already, didn't you?

No, you aren't. You're the arbiter of YOUR OPINION that I'm not a nice person, and your opinion is as meaningful to me as a taco fart. But you knew that already, didn't you?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I have every right to ask as per my first amendment rights.

And I will keep asking until one of you bigots gives a cogent answer

You have a Constitutional right to say the words. What you don't have is a moral right to think you should know.

And I will keep telling you to mind your own business until you stop being such a nosy, judgmental ass napkin.

I never said anything about moral rights and IDGAF if people dodge questions about their behavior because people who dodge those questions are usually doing so because they really can't defend their position in any intelligent manner.

Your dodging of questions tells me all I need to know about you

That would be the problem. You're incapable of differentiating between "I have a right to be an asshole" and "I should exercise my right to be an asshole." Which is why it's so necessary to respond to your questions, over and over, with an reminder that IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

The world is not the Oprah effing Winfrey Show, and just because you're happy to spew the details of your private life to all and sundry doesn't mean everyone else is so inclined, or in any way obligated to do so.

Learn the difference between "dodging the question" and answering honestly with "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS". Whether or not you believe it, that IS a valid answer. Also, learn the difference between "can't defend my position" and denying that you have a right to a defense.

Like I said those who don't answer can't answer intelligently.

This is a fucking anonymous board I don't know who you are and don't care to find out yet you dodge questions like the fucking plague.

And you have still to tell me why you have a double standard for employers, hypocrite

Like I said (although perhaps not this explicitly), this isn't the Inquisition, and you aren't Torquemada. NONE OF YOUR DAMNED BUSINESS is the ONLY intelligent answer to inappropriately nosy and personal demands for information.

I don't care how anonymous the board is. It's still NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. I'm not trying to evangelize or convert you to anything, and explaining my position only invites you to argue it and offer your opinions on it. I not only am not interested in your opinions on my religion, my ENTIRE POINT is that religion is personal and people have the right to practice it without having to take your opinions into account.

It isn't that I can't explain and defend my beliefs, if I choose to. It's that the whole point of my argument is that it's MY CHOICE. Not yours.

And I will tell you for the third time that I don't have a double standard for employers, dumbass. Your fevered imaginings of what you're "sure" I would do don't constitute MY standard on anything, and if I'm not obligated to defend my beliefs to you, I'm sure as HELL not obligated to defend YOUR ASSUMPTION of my beliefs.

I'm not trying to change your mind I just want to know what makes people think baking a cake is going to get them sent to hell.

And I'm not hiding that I think that position is moronic to the nth degree but I still want to know why people take that stance

 

[Skull Pilot]

YEs we did have sex last night.

Didn't ask, don't care, resent having the info forced on me.

And you must think it's just fine for an employer to fire you because of your religion because you think it's OK to use religion as an excuse for such behaviors.

There's a difference between "think it's okay" and "think he should have the right." It's HIS business. I have zero desire to work for someone who doesn't want me around, and is just going to make me miserable. Also, if he's harboring such shitty beliefs and notions, it's gonna show up one way or the other, which means his business probably isn't going to last very long. I'd rather escape before it gets to that point.

And FYI you never did answer that question. You gave me some bullshit story about an interview.

FYI, I answered you twice, once directly and once by example. Your inability to hear anything but what you want is not my problem.

Then you said a paycheck is different from a cake but you never answered the question.

Someone's livelihood IS different from baking a cake. And your tunnel vision still isn't my problem. Figure it the fuck out, because I'm not in the mood to break out the crayons and draw pictures.

But I have a feeling you'd be taking your employer to court if he fired you because of his religious beliefs wouldn't you?

Fucking hypocrite

I'm a hypocrite because of what YOU ASSUME I would do? I don't think so. I think YOU are a hypocrite, and just project that onto everyone else in the erroneous assumption that you are somehow normal and representative of something.

You say it's different but it isn't.

If a cake baker can refuse client because god told him to why can't your boss fire you because god told him to? Does your employer have to give up his first amendment rights just so you can have a job?

You want to hold employers to different standards than bakers therefore you my dear are a fucking hypocrite

Yeah, there actually IS a difference. If I am already employed by someone, I have a contractual agreement with them. I have a certain amount of proprietary interest in their fulfillment of their end of the contract. That's very different from someone declining to enter into the contract in the first place. If the baker had taken the order for the cake, and THEN found out it was for a gay wedding and said he wouldn't do it, I would consider it a very different situation legally.

That being said, if my employer suddenly converted to fundamental Islam (which would be pretty weird, since my employer is actually a Jewish man living in Israel), and decided that it was sinful for women to work, my happy ass would be out the door. I would expect him to provide severance pay, since I wasn't let go for cause, and it's part of the employment contract. But it would be an utter waste of my time, money, and effort to pitch any sort of legal hissy fit over it. For one thing, he'd be out of business in about two minutes with that sort of worldview, since the vast majority of people who work in the legal transcription field are female, AND most of the clients are government or quasi-government entities, and they won't contract with a company like that. It's the very definition of a "self-correcting problem".

And once again, dipshit, there's a difference between what standard I hold people to and what standard YOU ASSUME I hold them to. I'm not a hypocrite because of what you imagine is true, because I'm not responsible for opinions you project onto me.

Good for you.

So you won't be upset at all if your good friend the baker loses most of his business because he is a bigot.

Depends on whether he loses it because people in his community decide not to do business with him, or he loses it because nosy ass kittens like you try to use the government to tell him what he can and can't believe.

He can believe whatever the fuck he wants. No one is telling him he can't believe that there is a magic sky fairy that farts rainbows. What the law states is that anyone who operates a business open to the public is bound by the laws of the land.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bosses/businesses pretty much fire whomever they choose. They simply need an excuse and no union.

Sorry. Corky, but it is against the law to fire anyone because of their religion, sex etc.

So they use some other reason ---- like, the position/department has been eliminated.

Maybe maybe not.

But if one is not fired for cause then the employer's costs for both State and Federal Unemployment taxes rise.

Not my problem. My employer understood what was involved in the employment contract before he entered into it, so if he chooses to discontinue the contract for reasons of his own, he gets to bear the cost of that choice.

OK so what if you didn't have a contract but were employed at will like most people?

Then it would be OK for the business owner to fire all the women because his new religion says it's a sin for women to work right?

I am employed at will. Doesn't mean there isn't a basic contractual obligation between employer and employee. That's not only been an accepted component of the law AND society since forever, it's also self-evident. When I was hired, we made certain agreements on each side, both explicit and implicit, to which we are both obligated. Among those are the procedures to be followed to terminate my employment, depending on the reason.

And please stop conflating "okay to do" with "has a right to make choices". I don't have to approve of someone's choices to recognize and defend his right to make them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You have a Constitutional right to say the words. What you don't have is a moral right to think you should know.

And I will keep telling you to mind your own business until you stop being such a nosy, judgmental ass napkin.

I never said anything about moral rights and IDGAF if people dodge questions about their behavior because people who dodge those questions are usually doing so because they really can't defend their position in any intelligent manner.

Your dodging of questions tells me all I need to know about you

That would be the problem. You're incapable of differentiating between "I have a right to be an asshole" and "I should exercise my right to be an asshole." Which is why it's so necessary to respond to your questions, over and over, with an reminder that IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

The world is not the Oprah effing Winfrey Show, and just because you're happy to spew the details of your private life to all and sundry doesn't mean everyone else is so inclined, or in any way obligated to do so.

Learn the difference between "dodging the question" and answering honestly with "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS". Whether or not you believe it, that IS a valid answer. Also, learn the difference between "can't defend my position" and denying that you have a right to a defense.

Like I said those who don't answer can't answer intelligently.

This is a fucking anonymous board I don't know who you are and don't care to find out yet you dodge questions like the fucking plague.

And you have still to tell me why you have a double standard for employers, hypocrite

Like I said (although perhaps not this explicitly), this isn't the Inquisition, and you aren't Torquemada. NONE OF YOUR DAMNED BUSINESS is the ONLY intelligent answer to inappropriately nosy and personal demands for information.

I don't care how anonymous the board is. It's still NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. I'm not trying to evangelize or convert you to anything, and explaining my position only invites you to argue it and offer your opinions on it. I not only am not interested in your opinions on my religion, my ENTIRE POINT is that religion is personal and people have the right to practice it without having to take your opinions into account.

It isn't that I can't explain and defend my beliefs, if I choose to. It's that the whole point of my argument is that it's MY CHOICE. Not yours.

And I will tell you for the third time that I don't have a double standard for employers, dumbass. Your fevered imaginings of what you're "sure" I would do don't constitute MY standard on anything, and if I'm not obligated to defend my beliefs to you, I'm sure as HELL not obligated to defend YOUR ASSUMPTION of my beliefs.

I'm not trying to change your mind I just want to know what makes people think baking a cake is going to get them sent to hell.

And I'm not hiding that I think that position is moronic to the nth degree but I still want to know why people take that stance

I'm not a mind reader. I have no idea what he actually thinks or believes, and since I don't share his beliefs, I can't tell you from my own experience, either. All I can tell you is that his First Amendment right to believe whatever he believes and to practice those beliefs are not predicated on anyone else agreeing with him.

I will also tell you honestly that I'm very suspicious of your claim that you "just want to know why", given everything you've said. It seems far more likely to me that what you want is to argue whether or not the beliefs are "correct", according to some arbitrary standard of correctness, and thus try to invalidate his right to express and practice those beliefs.

If you want to know why I declined to attend my cousin's gay wedding, on the off chance that it offers some insight, then you're welcome to ask. Just understand that the answer will be a statement of fact, not an invitation for input or request for approval. I believe what I believe about what God wants from me. If He wants to correct me, He will. I'm not interested in any other votes on the subject.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Didn't ask, don't care, resent having the info forced on me.

There's a difference between "think it's okay" and "think he should have the right." It's HIS business. I have zero desire to work for someone who doesn't want me around, and is just going to make me miserable. Also, if he's harboring such shitty beliefs and notions, it's gonna show up one way or the other, which means his business probably isn't going to last very long. I'd rather escape before it gets to that point.

FYI, I answered you twice, once directly and once by example. Your inability to hear anything but what you want is not my problem.

Someone's livelihood IS different from baking a cake. And your tunnel vision still isn't my problem. Figure it the fuck out, because I'm not in the mood to break out the crayons and draw pictures.

I'm a hypocrite because of what YOU ASSUME I would do? I don't think so. I think YOU are a hypocrite, and just project that onto everyone else in the erroneous assumption that you are somehow normal and representative of something.

You say it's different but it isn't.

If a cake baker can refuse client because god told him to why can't your boss fire you because god told him to? Does your employer have to give up his first amendment rights just so you can have a job?

You want to hold employers to different standards than bakers therefore you my dear are a fucking hypocrite

Yeah, there actually IS a difference. If I am already employed by someone, I have a contractual agreement with them. I have a certain amount of proprietary interest in their fulfillment of their end of the contract. That's very different from someone declining to enter into the contract in the first place. If the baker had taken the order for the cake, and THEN found out it was for a gay wedding and said he wouldn't do it, I would consider it a very different situation legally.

That being said, if my employer suddenly converted to fundamental Islam (which would be pretty weird, since my employer is actually a Jewish man living in Israel), and decided that it was sinful for women to work, my happy ass would be out the door. I would expect him to provide severance pay, since I wasn't let go for cause, and it's part of the employment contract. But it would be an utter waste of my time, money, and effort to pitch any sort of legal hissy fit over it. For one thing, he'd be out of business in about two minutes with that sort of worldview, since the vast majority of people who work in the legal transcription field are female, AND most of the clients are government or quasi-government entities, and they won't contract with a company like that. It's the very definition of a "self-correcting problem".

And once again, dipshit, there's a difference between what standard I hold people to and what standard YOU ASSUME I hold them to. I'm not a hypocrite because of what you imagine is true, because I'm not responsible for opinions you project onto me.

Good for you.

So you won't be upset at all if your good friend the baker loses most of his business because he is a bigot.

Depends on whether he loses it because people in his community decide not to do business with him, or he loses it because nosy ass kittens like you try to use the government to tell him what he can and can't believe.

He can believe whatever the fuck he wants. No one is telling him he can't believe that there is a magic sky fairy that farts rainbows. What the law states is that anyone who operates a business open to the public is bound by the laws of the land.

Again, telling me "this is the law" is a waste of time, because no one is disputing what the law says. The topic is, and always has been, whether that SHOULD be the law.

 

[Taz]

Depends if these people call themselves Christians, because Jesus wouldn't turn anyone away for any reason. Do you call yourself a Christian? Because you're not one of them.

Yada yada. Remind me again what your qualifications are for declaring what Christianity is and isn't? It's not knowledge, wisdom, or experience, because you just committed a fairly egregious sin in that post, and I'll bet money you have no idea what it even is.

Exposing you as a fake Christian?

Exposing me as not being what YOU think a Christian is, and I would have told you with no difficulty that I'm not, and have no desire to be.

Now if we could just get you to understand and admit that YOU are the arbiter and standard of nothing whatsoever.

I'm the arbiter of you not being a very nice person. But you knew that already, didn't you?

No, you aren't. You're the arbiter of YOUR OPINION that I'm not a nice person, and your opinion is as meaningful to me as a taco fart. But you knew that already, didn't you?

LOL! Like you don't know that you're a bitch.

 

[Tilly]

Yada yada. Remind me again what your qualifications are for declaring what Christianity is and isn't? It's not knowledge, wisdom, or experience, because you just committed a fairly egregious sin in that post, and I'll bet money you have no idea what it even is.

Exposing you as a fake Christian?

Exposing me as not being what YOU think a Christian is, and I would have told you with no difficulty that I'm not, and have no desire to be.

Now if we could just get you to understand and admit that YOU are the arbiter and standard of nothing whatsoever.

I'm the arbiter of you not being a very nice person. But you knew that already, didn't you?

No, you aren't. You're the arbiter of YOUR OPINION that I'm not a nice person, and your opinion is as meaningful to me as a taco fart. But you knew that already, didn't you?

LOL! Like you don't know that you're a bitch.

Now you are just trolling.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yada yada. Remind me again what your qualifications are for declaring what Christianity is and isn't? It's not knowledge, wisdom, or experience, because you just committed a fairly egregious sin in that post, and I'll bet money you have no idea what it even is.

Exposing you as a fake Christian?

Exposing me as not being what YOU think a Christian is, and I would have told you with no difficulty that I'm not, and have no desire to be.

Now if we could just get you to understand and admit that YOU are the arbiter and standard of nothing whatsoever.

I'm the arbiter of you not being a very nice person. But you knew that already, didn't you?

No, you aren't. You're the arbiter of YOUR OPINION that I'm not a nice person, and your opinion is as meaningful to me as a taco fart. But you knew that already, didn't you?

LOL! Like you don't know that you're a bitch.

The two are not mutually exclusive. There are many people who think I'm a very nice person, and I value their opinions as I will never value yours.