Why Obama is wrong when he says business needs the government

[bripat9643]

Plenty of little Islands to buy if you want.

And no government.

You're free to move to North Korea where the government builds plenty of infrastructure and employs a vast abundance of police.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, those are streets! In fact, some of them are...post roads! a constitutional duty of...hold it now...government! And they existed before Henry Ford built the first car.

And even worse, that big area towards the top? That's a COMMON!!! In 1722 the people of Boston believed in a publicly managed common ownership. Like Marx, 100 years before his birth!

The Common's purpose has changed over the years. It was once owned by William Blaxton (often given the modernized spelling "Blackstone"), the first European settler of Boston, until it was bought from him by the Puritan founders of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. During the 1630s, it was used by many families as a cow pasture. However, this only lasted for a few years, as affluent families bought additional cows, which led to overgrazing, a real-life example of the Tragedy of the commons.[7] After grazing was limited in 1646 to 70 cows at a time,[8] the Boston Common continued to host cows until they were formally banned from it in 1830 by Mayor Harrison Gray Otis.[9]


Execution of Ann Hibbins on Boston Common, on charges of witchcraft, June 19, 1656. Sketch by F.T. Merril, 1886The Common was used as a camp by the British before the American Revolutionary War, from which they left for the Battle of Lexington and Concord. It was used for public hangings up until 1817, most of which were from a large oak which was replaced with gallows in 1769. In 1660 Mary Dyer was hanged there by the Puritans for preaching Quakerism.

Boston Common - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, someone donated the land they owned to the city. It became a park. Way to rewrite history.

So, you agree that the government acquired land and turned it into a common?

Never have I seen someone try so hard to disagree with the obvious.

Not in 1722.

 

[bripat9643]

History is full of examples of the government taking on projects that are huge because they believe they wouldn't happen otherwise. History is also full of examples of projects that businesses took on because they were needed.
...

Individual businesses may not need the government but industries always have.

fact


dD

What industry needs the government?

 

[bripat9643]

How many highways were built with business funds only?

There have been plenty of private toll roads built in this country.

 

[Luissa]

The government didn't build horse paths or the roads cut by carts either. The government flat hadn't at all at that time, built roads since the Romans tiled roads in Britian!

Roads weren't built, they were formed by use. Are liberals really that stupid? Seriously? The government didn't build any roads, certainly not in 1722 before there ever was a government.

The US government didn't build post roads?

I read right here in this thread that roads weren't built until the car was invented. The map was an obvious attempt to demonstrate that roads existed before cars. Somehow, that point has flown over the conservatarian head.

Do you have any idea what a post road is?

FYI, postal carriers used to ride horses from town to town, all that was needed were a few signposts to make sure they didn't get lost. Even when wagons were common the road was nothing more than two ruts that people followed from place to place. There was no need for a graded surface, which is what most intelligent people think of when someone says road, until cars were able to go fast enough to necessitate a smooth surface.

But there were still "smooth" roads built before Ford built his first automobiles.

 

[bripat9643]

Government gives hundreds of billions to businesses each year, either directly for military hardware, services or goods or indirectly thru govt assistance payments, SS, Medicare/aid, etc.

Government buys things from private business. It doesn't "give things to private business." Social programs are where the government gives money to individuals, not business. Claiming that's a business subsidy is the height of dishonesty.

 

[bripat9643]

For all you small government types.

There are actual countries around the world with small limited governments.

Irtokte Gun market in Mogadishu, Somalia - YouTube

Somalia Travel Guide - VirtualTourist

That's one.

There is nothing limited about the government in Somalia.

Sure it is.

It's practically non-existent.

I mean..what do you think you are talking about..when you say "small limited government".

In the modern real world..that sort of government is generally ineffective.

Wrong again, hosebag. Somalia is composed of dozens of small governments that exert absolute power over the territories they control.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, off the top of my head, water and sewer services, roads, fire, police, courts, defense, international relations, border control, health inspections, quality control for food, inspections of commericial vehicles and operators, air traffic control, inspections of commericial airplanes. Would you like more?

Excuse me?

First, nothing you have listed there is something the government knows best, some of them are not even things the government actually does. The ones that the government actually does do are things the government has declared are part of its monopoly of force.

Second, the government, the public sector, often calls in experts from the private sector to get advice on the best way to deliver those services because the public sector is run by a bunch of lawyers, not by people that actually understand the issues behind any of the services they have decided are exclusively in their purview,

I want to know what issues the public sector knows better than the private sector, not what services the public sector provides. Since you haven't named a single one I would definitely say I want more.

Which ones does the government not do?

Quality control of food is done by the companies that sell it, all the government actually does is inspect it to make sure it is not going to make people sick. Commercial airplanes are inspected by the airlines that own them, not the government. The FAA has a minimum inspection and repair schedule they require airlines to follow.

 

[bripat9643]

Washington would tell them to disperse or take a bullet.

You summed up the nature of government very eloquently with that statement.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Wow.

Facts are like that sometimes.

The fact is there were roadways before Ford built his automobiles. Lol
That is why he said Wow!!

The fact is those roadways were nothing more than wheel ruts that people followed from habit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I suppose telling you those lines are streets for pedestrian and horse traffic would be news.

My guess is that anyone that actually saw them would laugh if you tried to call them streets.

History of American Roads and the First Federal Highway


Oh! And read a little bit about Thomas Jefferson, Lewis and Clark and what good things can come from Government funding.

Damn, I am almost impressed.

If only I had not learned all about all that stuff in 5th grade I might think you had made a point.

 

[bripat9643]

Why Obama is wrong when he says business needs the government

This thread is hilarious on sooo many levels. I can only imagine businesses interacting without any government controls. I can only imagine consumers interacting without any government controls.

It happens all the time, turd. Markets have existed before any government ever existed.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, those are streets! In fact, some of them are...post roads! a constitutional duty of...hold it now...government! And they existed before Henry Ford built the first car.

And even worse, that big area towards the top? That's a COMMON!!! In 1722 the people of Boston believed in a publicly managed common ownership. Like Marx, 100 years before his birth!

There was no constitution in 1722.

No there wasn't, but there is a few Land Acts and Ordinances that mapped out streets, roadways, and public eduction.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, off the top of my head, water and sewer services, roads, fire, police, courts, defense, international relations, border control, health inspections, quality control for food, inspections of commericial vehicles and operators, air traffic control, inspections of commericial airplanes. Would you like more?

Excuse me?

First, nothing you have listed there is something the government knows best, some of them are not even things the government actually does. The ones that the government actually does do are things the government has declared are part of its monopoly of force.

Second, the government, the public sector, often calls in experts from the private sector to get advice on the best way to deliver those services because the public sector is run by a bunch of lawyers, not by people that actually understand the issues behind any of the services they have decided are exclusively in their purview,

I want to know what issues the public sector knows better than the private sector, not what services the public sector provides. Since you haven't named a single one I would definitely say I want more.

I am still waiting for you to answer my question on which ones the government doesn't do.

I already did, but thanks for playing.

 

[bripat9643]

Crap. What a dumb post. Almost all the major accomplishments in this nation have been done with a combination of government and private enterprise inputs. From the Interstate System to the Cross Continent railroads.

You mean all the wasteful boondoggles. Did government invent the light bulb? The telephone? Did it build the assembly line and produce millions of automobiles?

You idiots that espouse the idea that nothing government does is good are no differant than those that state that all businesses are evil.

Government does nothing without using force to accomplish it. That makes it inherently bad.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The US government didn't build post roads?

I read right here in this thread that roads weren't built until the car was invented. The map was an obvious attempt to demonstrate that roads existed before cars. Somehow, that point has flown over the conservatarian head.

Do you have any idea what a post road is?

FYI, postal carriers used to ride horses from town to town, all that was needed were a few signposts to make sure they didn't get lost. Even when wagons were common the road was nothing more than two ruts that people followed from place to place. There was no need for a graded surface, which is what most intelligent people think of when someone says road, until cars were able to go fast enough to necessitate a smooth surface.

But there were still "smooth" roads built before Ford built his first automobiles.

The roads you are talking about were built by shippers that wanted to make it easier to move goods, not by the government. The government did not get wholesale into building roads until after WWII. the interstate highway system was a Department of War project to make it easier to move the Army around in an emergency, not an investment in infrastructure to help businesses.

 

[Luissa]

There was no constitution in 1722.

No there wasn't, but there is a few Land Acts and Ordinances that mapped out streets, roadways, and public eduction.

Does that mean you don't know what you are talking about? Because I already knew that.

 

[Luissa]

Do you have any idea what a post road is?

FYI, postal carriers used to ride horses from town to town, all that was needed were a few signposts to make sure they didn't get lost. Even when wagons were common the road was nothing more than two ruts that people followed from place to place. There was no need for a graded surface, which is what most intelligent people think of when someone says road, until cars were able to go fast enough to necessitate a smooth surface.

But there were still "smooth" roads built before Ford built his first automobiles.

The roads you are talking about were built by shippers that wanted to make it easier to move goods, not by the government. The government did not get wholesale into building roads until after WWII. the interstate highway system was a Department of War project to make it easier to move the Army around in an emergency, not an investment in infrastructure to help businesses.

You obviously ignored the link I posted.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No there wasn't, but there is a few Land Acts and Ordinances that mapped out streets, roadways, and public eduction.

Does that mean you don't know what you are talking about? Because I already knew that.

There was no public education in 1722, and the only land use ordinance in existence was that the crown had the right to take anything it wanted.

Historical context.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But there were still "smooth" roads built before Ford built his first automobiles.

The roads you are talking about were built by shippers that wanted to make it easier to move goods, not by the government. The government did not get wholesale into building roads until after WWII. the interstate highway system was a Department of War project to make it easier to move the Army around in an emergency, not an investment in infrastructure to help businesses.

You obviously ignored the link I posted.

The link that says this?

[SIZE=-1]In 1908, Henry Ford introduced his low-priced, highly efficient Model T. Its widespread popularity created pressure for the federal government to become more directly involved in road development. With rural interests adding to the battle cry of "Get the farmers out of the mud!" Congress passed the Federal- Aid Road Act of 1916. It created the Federal-Aid Highway Program under which funds were made available on a continuous basis to state highway agencies to assist in road improvements. But before the program could get off the ground, the United States entered World War I.[/SIZE]

Yep, I ignored it.